[M-1,7,15,18] PikMafia - The End! Scum Wins!

[Chuckie]

I'd like to believe Chuckie were town, which by default I suppose means Zen would be the scum partner - but I would not be happy placing a vote on them.

Swiss, do you have a problem with lynching Zen?

Chuckie, I believe you to be the scum partner. Thus Zen or McCloud is doc.

Why'd you change your mind??

 

[Chuckie]

@Zen:

Unless I'm mistake, once scum is equal in numbers to that of Town, they win. The reason being that it is mathematically impossible for Town to lynch in that situation (because you'd need 3 for a lynch, and there are only 2 townies).

 

[Xivii]

Really? In that case never mind that... ~_^

 

[Chuckie]

Zens I'm using a past claim against yours. It's like the Riddle/Swiss scenario except we have a town flip from the town switch.

What you're suggesting is wii as Chuckie could have fabricated that wii turned the white switch on, but wii openly declared all 'fabrications' very early in the game - the fact our fabrications contradicted you on behalf of the town switch should have been 'enough suspicion' to show us up there and then because you would have known wii we're lying, and wii'd have no reason to lie as a townie in that situation.

Also as a scummie wii'd be taking a silly gamble saying such things as early as D2 when wii didn't even know the majority of the claims then, and our 'lies' didn't even come with the intent to kill a townie lol... It's like wii would have lied about that information for no apparent reason other than to wait for someone to out us - which you did an amazing job Zensei keeping quiet =D

Show us examples of where you tried to push for our lynch plz!

 

[Swiss]

Swiss, do you have a problem with lynching Zen?

I have a problem lynching anyone other than Riddle. Riddle is the only sure fire scum. Thus why I said I'm not happy to place votes on either of you.

 

[Xivii]

Chuckie the switch situation and me being vanilla is not the main point as to why I find you suspicious. I've only had slight suspicions of you before the ending of yesterday (D3). Like I said I mainly had been leaning towards you being town, but now you're pushing mega hard on false concepts and manupulating what is true. I questioned a few times whether or not I should point out I had no role, but I just didn't feel like it would be best for the game. I don't know how the flavor works. As I said, you lying is only one possibility. There may also be the possability that the action was simply nullified due to Vanz dying or a role blocker. Anything. I didn't feel it neccessary to claim just to cause unessary suspicions. I don't like for things to be focused on flavor, but rather indavidual game actions. And I've liked your game actions up until recently. Also YOU'RE the one that asked for me to claim. Don't act like I'm just bringing it up as a convinient way to make you look scummy.


(btw I'll look through my posts for quotes when I'm on a CPU).

Also I really don't like how Riddle & McCloud are sitting in the background through all of this.

 

[Swiss]

McCloud!!!!

Lynch Riddl!

Zebsei msut votr hm yoo, we have an ato win if we do!

 

[Chuckie]

An auto win for SCUM.

 

[Chuckie]

Commenting on stuff as I'm re reading.

Is that really all you have to say?

I say we lynch Kirbyo

Vote: Kirbyoshi

Once he flips scum, Tanny or Swiss.

So Zensei 'suspected' Swiss yesterDay, but for some reason doesn't toDay. And he hasn't given a reason apart from:

Chuckie you're wrong. And I'm inclined to believe that you and Riddle are scum (As Swiss said). I'm more sure on Riddle however because one of them (Swiss or Riddle) is sure fire scum. Riddle has been playing scummy all game. I agree that Swiss has made some scummy remarks as well, but I think that's more of just how Swiss is, more noobish than scum, no offenese. and I know Riddle is a much better town player than the cruse along type of game he's been playing. The only other possibility fmpov is Riddle-McCloud, but the way you're pushing me and Swiss I think it's unlikely.

And of course you would use flavor- the one thing we will never be sure of until the game is over. That's exactly why I didn't mention I was vanilla before as I knew scum would try and pin that against me. People like Chaco and KY would go right a long with it.

(using wiinet. post more later.)

This is incredibly lulzy. Giving Swiss the benefit of the doubt because he's "noobish." Terrible.

Riddle's playstyle town or scum IS to cruise along. It's just how he plays. Prove me wrong, please.

Unvote

Hold on I just realized something. If Swords is telling the truth and Tanny flips town as well that could put us at the end of the game with mafias NK if there are three scum..

This was the last vote change before Swords self voted and put himself at L-1. Zensei's unvote was the main reason why we almost had a No lynch that day.

It's also nice to point out that Swiss and Zensei were BOTH absent at the deadline, and were BOTH not on the wagon.

Also, here's a nice quote that from Tanny, that sums up a lot about Zensei.

You were on the wagon at one point when Swords was at L-1. Then you unvoted and Swords attempted to hammer himself which only dug his grave deeper with his final comment. If you hadn't jumped off the wagon, then you wouldn't have been in a position to worry about whether to hammer or not.

And what do you mean you might have hammered? If Swords was the best lynch for D2, you shouldn't have had hesitation on the lynch. Even with his claim of bomb, the best lynch is tautologically the best lynch.

It shouldn't be suspicious to think scum don't want to vote for their teammates. Yes, bussing is an option, but it's not the only option. My suggestion to look at the non-voters is a valid method of looking for scum. Considering you left the wagon, we can both have what we want too. I want someone who wasn't voting when Swords was lynched. You want someone who was on the wagon.

The bolded point is what we've been trying to get across. Zensei's whole argument for Chuckie being scum is that we bussed. He has nothing else to say that we are suspicious. He says we are twisting arguments, but again and again we show that we are not. The only other thing he's holding against us is flavour, which he himself says he's against using.

And he's decided that Swiss is town, with no real reasoning either. He even admitted that Swiss was scummy yesterDay, and that Chuckie was right to suspect him.

 

[Riddle]

Riddle's playstyle town or scum IS to cruise along. It's just how he plays.

It really depends on how im feeling. Sounds pretty accurate though.

 

[Swiss]

Actually Chuckie, Riddle in Taco mafia recently died. He was a townie and had played 'very well' (quoting Guide) he was playing NOTHING like he has been here. He flipped town. Go meta him if you want, this is at least something you CANNOT deny.

He was town there, he's scum here.

 

[Riddle]

Cool, one game. Check out the rest of my meta. The first version of Newbie 7 for instance.

 

[McCloud]

Jesus. ****ing. Christ.

40 hour flight day, vague bomb threats at Charles de Gaulle, someone stalking me, and Chicago throwing one hell of a jealous lovestorm leaving my plane stranded on the tarmac for 3 hours, but at last I've returned to the pridelands.

I will update this as soon as I can, but I'm so sorry I cannot handle anymore thinking right now. Jetlagged like hell.

I don't believe zen is scum from what little i've read over the past two days.

 

[Chuckie]

Actually Chuckie, Riddle in Taco mafia recently died. He was a townie and had played 'very well' (quoting Guide) he was playing NOTHING like he has been here. He flipped town. Go meta him if you want, this is at least something you CANNOT deny.

He was town there, he's scum here.

OBJECTION!

(sorry been playing phoenix wright XD)

As Riddle said, in Newbie 7 (I'm taking his word for it) and Cartoon cartoons mafia, he played incredibly similar to how he is now. In fact, I was scum in Cartoons, and made up a fake counter claim to Riddle's. And Town was more inclined to believe my story, even though Riddle was Town.

So Swiss, we must agree, that Riddle's play in this game, is NOT 100% indicative of him being scum based on how he has played in previous games. Meta in itself is weak. You yourself say that your playstyle is changing every time you play.

But as you can see, Zensei's reasons for finding Riddle to be scum ARE BASED ON META.

and I know Riddle is a much better town player than the cruse along type of game he's been playing.

He hasn't given any other reasons as to why Riddle is scum, other than meta.

Also, from a quick look back at Zensei's posts, he never found Riddle suspicious earlier on, yet toDay he says:

Riddle has been playing scummy all game.

To me, it is obvious that Zensei has pulled this opinion from NOWHERE. He was slightly suspicious of Swiss earlier on in the game

I agree with chuckie that Swiss has done virtually nothing but tunnel Riddle. And Swiss you haven't answered my questions.

Yet he's dropped this suspicion ENTIRELY. Also, something else that is not quite right:

I realize this. My theory is that if you did happen to flip town then there's a possible chance that Riddle is town too, thus he would be telling the truth and Swiss would be lying. If this were the case then that would mean that there would be 2 town and 2 scum. If Riddle blocks the NK then there would still be a chance. That's why I feel you would be a safer choice than Riddle. It's a small leap, but that's my reason for why I want people to vote you and not him.

Zensei admits the possibility of Swiss being scum, and the possibility of Riddle being a roleblocker. BUT, he decides that Chuckie would be a "safer kill." Now despite the fact that this would lose the game for Town (if it's a mislynch toDay, it's over assuming 2 scum left), the fact that Zensei would consider that if Riddle was town, and therefore Swiss would be scum, that he would RATHER lynch Chuckie.

If he's deciding that Riddle COULD be a roleblocker, it makes absolutely NO SENSE to lynch Chuckie based on this alone. Because if Riddle is town and Swiss is scum, then there are 3 possible scum mates. Zensei, Chuckie and McCloud. Meaning (if he excludes himself, he has a 50/50 chance between Chuckie and McCloud)

HOW ON EARTH is this a safer option? If Zensei was to even CONSIDER that Riddle is Town, the BEST option; no, THE ONLY LOGICAL OPTION, is to Lynch Swiss. BUT HE'S IGNORING THIS, AND INSTEAD PUSHING FOR CHUCKIE'S LYNCH.

---

@McCloud: There is little more evidence that Chuckie can provide. It is clear that Zensei has no legitimate reasoning for wanting to lynch Riddle. Yet, a player who he was suspicious of him earlier in the day, Swiss, has been given a clear, based on absolutely NOTHING. They claim we are twisting the situation, but they both fail to respond to the points we make, instead choosing small parts of the argument and excluding all else.

 

[Xivii]

Commenting on stuff as I'm re reading.



So Zensei 'suspected' Swiss yesterDay, but for some reason doesn't toDay. And he hasn't given a reason apart from:

You're either skimming or deliberately omitting part's of what I said to fit your argument. At the time I was looking more at a Kirbyoshi/Swiss scum team. I wanted to look at Swiss because I had a strong feeling that he and KY were connected and that Kirbyoshi would flip scum. That's not to say I'm excusing Swiss because that didn't happen.

This is incredibly lulzy. Giving Swiss the benefit of the doubt because he's "noobish." Terrible.

Riddle's playstyle town or scum IS to cruise along. It's just how he plays. Prove me wrong, please.

For lack of a better word. I don't mean to call him noobish; however, I noticed Swiss has a messy type of play stile in all the games that he plays. Many of the things I would suspect him from are just too surfacey for me to believe he is making scumslips. To me he just looks like an easy target for scum. I haven't really read any game in which he was scum, but he doesn't seem to be playing/saying anything different than he has in other games. I suppose this is metagaming, but I think to call him scum based on his play this game would be a mistake.

Swiss actually was in my mind up with Riddle as a prime suspect for today up until the whole claim thing; however, I do not think that both of them are scum and Swiss' claim makes more sense to me while Riddle's seems more designed specifically to counter Swiss' accusation.

Also on Riddle's play, I think Swiss already said, that is not the case. The game that riddle was just in with us, he flipped town and he was not playing the cruise style he is this game at all but was much more active and involved. I'm not saying that because he was involved and townie that game that him playing uninvolved automatically makes him scum ;however, to excuse his involvement by saying he plays this way every game regardless is false.

This was the last vote change before Swords self voted and put himself at L-1. Zensei's unvote was the main reason why we almost had a No lynch that day.

It's also nice to point out that Swiss and Zensei were BOTH absent at the deadline, and were BOTH not on the wagon.

Also, here's a nice quote that from Tanny, that sums up a lot about Zensei.



The bolded point is what we've been trying to get across. Zensei's whole argument for Chuckie being scum is that we bussed. He has nothing else to say that we are suspicious. He says we are twisting arguments, but again and again we show that we are not. The only other thing he's holding against us is flavour, which he himself says he's against using.

Those are not my primary reasons for suspecting you. I keep telling you this, yet you keep blocking it off.

- I believe Riddle is scum.
- I believe that if Riddle is scum then Swiss is not scum. (Why would they be trying to lynch eachother...)
- If Swiss is not scum than he is telling the truth that McCloud is not scum either.
- I know my alignment leaving you as the only person left. (From everyone else point of view that would still leave me in the picture obviously along with you.)

Everything else supports my suspicion, they are not my primary reasons. I have become more and more suspicious as I have been reading through your posts and while you continue to push false accusations against myself. The fact that you have hardly expressed any suspicion towards Riddle this game (and barely interacted with him for that matter), and are excusing him now with little support dramatically increases my suspicions.

The only other possibilities I can see at this time is:

-Swiss is scum.
-Riddle is not scum.
-Chuckie is extremely misguided or decided to blow it in lylo/mylo.
-McCloud is scum.

This I find much more unlikely as both halfs of Chukie are pretty good players. I just couldn't see you two playing this sort of town game.

I would say there is the possibility that :

-Swiss is scum
-Riddle is not scum
-McCloud is town
-Chuckie is scum.

but if you and Swiss are scum partners this game is pretty much screwed... and **** everything...

 

[vanderzant]

You're either skimming or deliberately omitting part's of what I said to fit your argument. At the time I was looking more at a Kirbyoshi/Swiss scum team. I wanted to look at Swiss because I had a strong feeling that he and KY were connected and that Kirbyoshi would flip scum. That's not to say I'm excusing Swiss because that didn't happen.

That's highly irrelevant to what I said. I said you were suspicious of Swiss yesterday, but you've dropped the suspicion of him toDay. You ARE excusing him by saying that Riddle is scum, when NOTHING you have previously said suggests that you were of this view.

Prove where you said you thought Riddle was scummy BEFORE toDay. You're ONLY reason for voting him toDay is you believe Swiss' claim over his. You're not supporting it at all with evidence from Day's 1-3. Only by your opinions of Riddle and Swiss in other games. Which, as I've said, is incredibly weak, because I have provided examples where Riddle has played like this before as Town.

I'm not basing my views on Riddle on meta and role claims ALONE. But you are. I showed why I think Riddle was town yesterDay. I showed why I thought Swiss was scum yesterDay.

I'm lynching based on who I think is scummy, from actions that have occurred in THIS GAME, not based on claims/flavour/meta.

For lack of a better word. I don't mean to call him noobish; however, I noticed Swiss has a messy type of play stile in all the games that he plays. Many of the things I would suspect him from are just too surfacey for me to believe he is making scumslips. To me he just looks like an easy target for scum. I haven't really read any game in which he was scum, but he doesn't seem to be playing/saying anything different than he has in other games. I suppose this is metagaming, but I think to call him scum based on his play this game would be a mistake.

As long as you realise that this IS meta, and that Swiss has openly said that he changes his style from game to game (or something along those lines). So therefore it is null/neutral. And it would be a mistake to call him Town based on this game as well.

Swiss actually was in my mind up with Riddle as a prime suspect for today up until the whole claim thing; however, I do not think that both of them are scum and Swiss' claim makes more sense to me while Riddle's seems more designed specifically to counter Swiss' accusation.

This proves my point further. You're basing your suspicion of Riddle/non suspicion of Swiss based on the claim ALONE, and reinforcing it with questionable meta.

Also on Riddle's play, I think Swiss already said, that is not the case. The game that riddle was just in with us, he flipped town and he was not playing the cruise style he is this game at all but was much more active and involved. I'm not saying that because he was involved and townie that game that him playing uninvolved automatically makes him scum ;however, to excuse his involvement by saying he plays this way every game regardless is false.

I agree, but to use this as a reason for him being him scum is ALSO false. It's neutral as far as I see it.

Those are not my primary reasons for suspecting you. I keep telling you this, yet you keep blocking it off.

- I believe Riddle is scum.
- I believe that if Riddle is scum then Swiss is not scum. (Why would they be trying to lynch eachother...)
- If Swiss is not scum than he is telling the truth that McCloud is not scum either.
- I know my alignment leaving you as the only person left. (From everyone else point of view that would still leave me in the picture obviously along with you.)

I know, you think we're scum ONLY because you believe Swiss' claim over Riddle's. We're pointing out you basically have no other reason than this.

We've also pointed out that your reasons for suspecting Riddle are based on his CLAIM and META alone.

Everything else supports my suspicion, they are not my primary reasons. I have become more and more suspicious as I have been reading through your posts and while you continue to push false accusations against myself. The fact that you have hardly expressed any suspicion towards Riddle this game (and barely interacted with him for that matter), and are excusing him now with little support dramatically increases my suspicions.

Everything else? You give NO specifics as to why we are suspicious to you. You do this AGAIN and AGAIN.

And on Day 2 I was still suspicious of Riddle. I remember sharing this view with Swiss. Except Kat was busy hunting Swords, and was doing most of the posting.

The only other possibilities I can see at this time is:

-Swiss is scum.
-Riddle is not scum.
-Chuckie is extremely misguided or decided to blow it in lylo/mylo.
-McCloud is scum.

This I find much more unlikely as both halfs of Chukie are pretty good players. I just couldn't see you two playing this sort of town game.

I would say there is the possibility that :

-Swiss is scum
-Riddle is not scum
-McCloud is town
-Chuckie is scum.

but if you and Swiss are scum partners this game is pretty much screwed... and **** everything...

So basically either Swiss is scum or Riddle is scum. We know this.

 

[Xivii]

Also, from a quick look back at Zensei's posts, he never found Riddle suspicious earlier on




To me, it is obvious that Zensei has pulled this opinion from NOWHERE.

I've found Riddle scummy this whole game actually. I admit he slipped by yesterDay. KY and Tanny stuck out more to me and I regret that..

I didn't pull my suspicions from no where. I am in 4 different games right now, and with you being so scummy toDay and tunneling me like hell, there's only so much I can post at one time. I'll explain now as to why I think Riddle is scum, and why I think he is lying out of him and Swiss.

Good reasoning there. But I do agree that this game is kind of dead.

Everyone:

1) What is the one thing I could do right now that would make you think I was scum (in other words what is the biggest possible scumtell in your opinion)

claiming scum doesn't count as a scumtell >.>

Like I said, I've found Riddle scummy since D1. I realize this was a question to get activity going, but it's statement's like these that I always find to be pretty legit scum tells. It's not even the fact that he's asking a pro-scum question, it's the fact that he is directing it towards himself. 2 recent games I have played, I outed scum/anti-town members for asking questions about themselves. I do not think that I am merely metagaming (if that's even the right word), I think this is a legit scum tell. (Not enough to conclude him as scum obv).

I'm having a hard time getting reads on people. I'm going to reread and see if anything jumps out at me.

This was on page 8 during the Kat/Swiss/Vanz/Green discussion. Of course he never put any input on this after wards until asked again. Cruising from the start.

Vote: Greenstreet

I'm down for a wagon

After posting almost nothing of use, he comes in and hops on the wagon as the 4th to do so.

On the Kat/Swiss thing

The whole basis of the argument was mostly unimportant, but I didn't actually see anything scummy from either people.

He gives his input on Kat/Swiss convo, but only to sit on the fence. Also this is after Vanz asks for everyone to give their opinion.

I don't like that post at ALL Swiss. In that 2 sentences I see THREE scumtells.

1) Buddying of Vanz. Lots of people think Vanz is town so its beneficial to get on Vanz good side

2) Hopping on an easy wagon. I don't think anyone can disagree that I've been somewhat inactive.

3) WAITING to hop on the wagon. This is the biggest of them all tbh. It gives you a chance to test the waters and see if anyone disapproves of your action discretely while not being on a bandwagon that might not take-off.

Unvote, Vote: Swiss

(This is where my suspicions pour in. You'll notice on D2 I decide to look into Riddle because of this. I back off a bit then because of the way he was answering my questions, and there were other people to look at).

His first statement about how lots of people thought Vanz was town raised a red flag for me today. I actually was going to ask him about it, but Kat beat me to it (I waited for him to answer, but he never did). I have no idea where in the world he got this from. I very much think this is a scum slip as he is speaking in a point of view scum would speak in. I'll go more into this later.

For now I'll focus on the hypocritical comments he makes with his #2 & 3 statements. He says that Swiss is hopping on the easy wagon when that's exactly what he did 3 posts ago when hopping on Greens wagon (with no reasoning of his own). He then says that what is most scummy about Swiss is that Swiss was "WAITING to hop on the wagon". Again Riddle did this exact thing. He was the fourth person to hop on the Green wagon, which was after it had already started rolling. Before this, he has done nothing but coasted. Riddle, if this is the biggest tell of them all then I'd say you are #1 scum right now.

1) You are still buddying him
2) Its my fault you are hopping on an easy wagon with no reasoning of your own?
3) So you think Kat won't answer your questions if you vote me?

Learn to use OMGUS correctly please. OMGUS is voting someone who voted you or suspected you simply because they voted you or suspected you. I pointed out specific scumtells I found.

Looks like OMGUS to me, especially since later you completely drop your suspicions on Swiss.

I suspect this is because of the noise the whole situations was causing. People were starting to suspect that one of them could be scum. Don't need that attention, especially since if Swiss was chosen to be lynched and flipped town then Riddle himself would be prime suspect.

[The rest of D1 is just Riddle's and Swiss' odd bickering back and forth until everyone decides to lynch Green. This is Riddle's first post for D2.]

vote: junglefever

nothin else to say

Just as Swords, Riddle hopped right on this. I'm disappointed that I didn't notice this before. The thing I dislike about both of their willingness to join is that they immediately believed Chaco as if they knew his alignment. Turns out Swords did. (Also Jungle had been inactive all D1 and at this point was to be the most likely person to die. Hopping on the wagon early = town points after a Jungle scum flip.)

uhhh @Zensei

I dont understand the point of your questions. I doubt they were both maf and I think Vanz is a more likely vig target.

This is when I begin to look more into Riddle based off that D1 comment. I ask him what he thinks of the night kills and if one of them was a Vig which one does he think is the Vig kill. I wanted to hear this answer because he was my prime suspect at that point of time and because he earlier said that most people saw Vanz as town. If this were the case then he should think that Vanz was a mafia kill and Kat was a Vig kill. Yet he thinks that Vanz was a Vig kill. I ask him more about this, but he just keeps saying that he was shown wrong.

You're missing the point of my question. (Or am I just missing what you are saying in your answer. If so then can you explain?)

-D1 you said that most people saw Vans as town.
-Now you are saying that you think Vans death was a Vig kill.

You agree that a Vig would kill someone that is scummy right? Not someone who is giving off town vibes. (If not then explain why).

If Vans was giving off strong town vibes as you so thought, why do you think that a Vig would be likely to kill him?

No what I'm saying is that though I thought many people thought vanz was scum, I was persuaded otherwise by the response to that statement.

I didnt change my mind. I still thought he was town, but my assertion that he was widely thought of as town was proven incorrect.

No one at all proved that that his assertion was incorrect. The only person to ask him about it was Kat: #243, #219, and he NEVER answered. He even posted a few times before the days end, but he completely ignored Kats question.

Now on D2 he is saying that his his assertion was proven wrong, even though no one ever showed him wrong.

At the time I felt that the reason Riddle was answering the way he was, was because he was a vigilante so I decided to drop it and hoped that no one else caught on. And I wanted to look at Chaco more. It wasn't until today that Riddle claimed that he was a jailkeeper (and not a Vig) that my suspicions were confirmed.

I got so caught up in KY being scum yesterDay that Riddle some how managed to slip by, as he has done all game.

This is where my confidence that Riddle is scum comes from.
-Declaring that most people see Vander as town
-Ignoring the questions asked about his statement
-Saying that he thought Vander was a Vig kill
-Gives no reason for why his opinion had changed other than that he was "proven wrong"
-The reason he does give (being proven wrong) is invalid.

So why the change in belief? Why the contradiction? Did he simply not state what he didn't want people to know- that Vander wasn't a Vig kill, but a NK? Contradictions in belief and play are the biggest scum tell to me.

@Chuckie

I am much happier with a Kirbyo lynch today. Based on Swiss' meta this is a fairly common way for him to play and even though I don't like it, it doesn't make him scum imo.

Kirbyo, on the other hand, quickly switched to me as you stated and wrote a terribly useless ISO to back up his case.

vote:Kirbyo

D3 now.

My thoughts exactly on Swiss.


I wont go into his vote being on KY seeing as I was a main force in KYs lynch....

@Swiss

Not all that much. I've been kind of inactive and useless. What have you done other than tunnel me?

Correct. The only thing about this, is that I see him online constantly, yet he cruises a long in the game. McCloud is much of a backgrounder as well, but at least he has reason.

Kirbyoshi, if you're going to make a case like that will you quote posts? It makes it much easier for everyone to verify your accuracy and for me to defend myself. The way it is now it would be much easier for you to manipulate or misinterpret what I said and have nobody notice.

Ugh fine I'll go find every single post and quote them myself with kirbyo's explanations and then defend myself.

Not until tennis camp is over though.

Riddle has constantly put off defending himself this whole game: With Kat's question, with Swiss, and now KY.

I agreed with him that both Swiss and KY lacked evidence, but at this point it just turns into stalling. It takes Tanny to call Riddle out before he finally agrees to post some defense... yet he never does. He simply vanishes for the rest of the day.


and now to D4 and his claim and why I believe Swiss' claim to be true over his.

I saw that Green flipped indy and tandora pushed Green pretty hard.

I found Swiss suspicious before, so it makes sense for me to jail him based on my logic.

And no I cant talk to people with this version of jailkeeper.

First he decides that N1 he uses his jailkeeper on Tanny (as a roleblocker). His reasoning is that Tanny pushed hard for the Green lynch. Green flipped anti-town and Riddle decides that Tanny was the most suspicious after pushing for his lynch, Even though Vanz was the one pushing hardest for the green lynch.

1. Green was scummy as hell. People on the wagon shouldn't have been all that scummy in the first place.
2. Tanny was not the only one pushing for Green's lynch. Not sure why he would choose Tanny over anyone else based on those reasons especially when others were pushing harder for the lynch (Vanz).
3. Green and Swiss were Riddles only suspicions for the day. Why didn't you jail Swiss then if that were the case? Why D2 instead? Tanny was more suspicious D2 if anything. It strikes me as odd that you would jail Swiss N2 and Tanny N1. I could see Swiss N1 and Tanny or anyone else N2, but your claimed actions don't add up with with your play. Your claimed N3 action on McCloud is the only one that makes sense to me.

(1 out of 3, I see motive for)
(At least 1 out of 3, I see as unreasonable)

In the case of Swiss, I have no idea why he investigated Vanz N1. His N2 and N3 claims seem fall into place however. He had been on Riddle D2 and D3. And McCloud was the second suspect for D3. Also it explains a lot about Swiss' play yesterday. I found it odd that Swiss was tunneling so hard without even bothering to bring up evidence. Seeing that he supposedly got results as Riddle being scum (or reversed or w/e) N2 matches up with his play and things make a bit more sense.

(2 out of 3, I see motive for)
(1 out 3, I see as unreasonable)

This is what I have to work with Chukie, both claims are definitely possible. It pretty much comes down to which makes the most logical sense, and who I think is scum without this information. Had we had no other information in the game and I had to choose between the two claims with nothing else I would be at a complete stand still.

Zensei admits the possibility of Swiss being scum, and the possibility of Riddle being a roleblocker. BUT, he decides that Chuckie would be a "safer kill." Now despite the fact that this would lose the game for Town (if it's a mislynch toDay, it's over assuming 2 scum left), the fact that Zensei would consider that if Riddle was town, and therefore Swiss would be scum, that he would RATHER lynch Chuckie.

If he's deciding that Riddle COULD be a roleblocker, it makes absolutely NO SENSE to lynch Chuckie based on this alone. Because if Riddle is town and Swiss is scum, then there are 3 possible scum mates. Zensei, Chuckie and McCloud. Meaning (if he excludes himself, he has a 50/50 chance between Chuckie and McCloud)

HOW ON EARTH is this a safer option? If Zensei was to even CONSIDER that Riddle is Town, the BEST option; no, THE ONLY LOGICAL OPTION, is to Lynch Swiss. BUT HE'S IGNORING THIS, AND INSTEAD PUSHING FOR CHUCKIE'S LYNCH.

Chuckie my final reason for my strong suspicion on Riddle is You. As I have said multiple times, you have become increasingly suspicious to me throughout toDay and D3. You continue to tunnel me: You have completely ignored the meanings of my posts and use my words into ways that solely to fit your hollow argument. You keep accusing me of falsely incriminating and avoiding points you have made when it is you who is doing that very thing. You say that I haven't responded to everything you have said, but you are simply ignoring my responses. It's like you are merely looking at my single post, instead of my whole argument and trying to fit it into a mindset that I am scum (i.e tunneling). This is becoming belaboring. You're just having me repeat over and over and ignore what I'm saying. I believe that no matter what you are set on trying to get me lynched. You fail to see the most obvious scum tells in Riddle, but continue to tunnel me over without reason. This Chuckie, is why I think you're scum and why I am even more confident that Riddle is scum. Everything falls into place. It's odd that both Vanz and Kat thought riddle was scummy, yet you chuckie are completely excusing him. This connection cannot be overlooked, and I will not let it.

As for why I thought you would be the safer choice: I think both of you are scum. I do not think Swiss is scum. I was simply stating that EVEN if you DID flip town, there there would still be a chance for a town win. I was in no way saying that I think you could be town; however, all possibilities should be taken account for no matter how positive you thinks they are. We have to lynch the exact right person for toDay. Seeing that I was wrong for there still being a chance for a town win even in the event of a mislynch, then I think the best person for today would be Riddle. There is still the possibility, even though I do not believe it to be the case, that Riddle and McCloud are scum buddies so lynching you is not the exact right choice. But I am almost certain that it is Riddle and you. Either way I have certainty in Riddle.

Vote: Riddle

I just hope that I've convinced Swiss and McCloud to go after you toMorrow seeing as I most likely will not live.

 

[Xivii]

If McCloud and Swiss are the scum team... then me and Chuckie just got epically mindgamed and **** this game

 

[Chuckie]

Uh, I hope you realise that if McCloud is scum he can just hammer Riddle right now >.<.

 

[Swiss]

Riddle is scum.

Hammer away.

 

[Kataefi]

Post coming up, McCloud don't hammer just yet.

 

[Riddle]

Oh my god I hate huge cases. They are so boring to respond too. I might respond to it at some point but dont count on it.

 

[Chuckie]

@McCloud:- by not thinking Zensei is scum, you are insinuating Chuckie is scum, and we can't let you think that simply because there's not half as much incriminating evidence against us if you would just stop V/LAing for the 1623rd time and reread.

But enough guilt-tripping - what we have going against us is an inefficient bus at a time when Swords was given an invitiation to endgame. The invitation contradicts the accusations of a bus IOO simply because scum would have wanted to maxemise the longevity Swords' offered. The fact we brought that longevity right down when he could have got away only draws us nearer to the light as a townie, not a scummy-scummy, because the game could have been a victory for scum by now if Swords and his "bulletproof" claim were still livin' n breathin', which looked to be the case at that time.
_

I think we should go Swiss first now, because the team cannot be Swiss and Chuckie as we would have dealt the deal and won the game - Swiss flipping scum will clear Riddle and us, and by his own presence Zensei will be outed. We'll have Riddle jail Zensei to ensure he can't Nkill. McCloud you need to reconsider Swiss/Riddle. Read the many cases we made against Swiss yesterDay: #668 / #675, I believe there to be a strong swords/swiss connection.

Additionally, Swiss' claim is questionable:-

Chuckie, why could you not both be scum?

You two simply confirm to each other you are town, ish.

I just don't know. I'd like to believe he is mislead town, I really would. I'll present a case on his alignment tomorrow, I'll need some time to think it over.

I really, really don't want to unvote Riddle. He's the only person I actually have a scum read on.

If we appeared town "ish" to Swiss, and were directly questioned regarding our alignment as early as D2, why, then, did Swiss not investigate Chuckie for a good 3 Nights?

"I'll present a case on his alignment tomorrow" is suggestive in the sense that he should have investigated us by now at this point in lylo, based on his thinking this game. That didn't happen. His thoughts and play in-game don't reflect his cop play at all.

Further accentuating this:-

I don't like Kirb and Tanny.

Kirb gave non colours a free pass, tanny is one of them. I can see a scum indirectly defending a buddy in this was easily.

Tanny made a terribad post (see post 600) AtE is BS. 598 is WIFOM to the max. Hasn't done anything else today - useless to town.

Also after re-reading today I'll admit I actually haven't *** hunted a much as I could have. (That doesn't make my previous points any less valid).

Swiss didn't offer much of a directive in terms of pushing and suspecting Riddle except for emptily voting - on many occasions he even refused to repost his case on Riddle. So why on D3 why did he change his focus to Tanny and Kirb? Why did he widen his lynch pool when his focus should have been Riddle?

He was never streamlined, he never did make that case on Riddle despite thinking he's scum, and it's not reflective of his play as a cop. It's as if he tried to steer many suspicions forward. Also the line saying "I haven't *** hunted as much as I could have" - why would he need to scumhunt when he's found scum at this point?

Considering he felt strongly that a doc was present, why didn't he pursue Riddle more aggressively, make a case, and claim protection from the doc?
_

Also you should consider that Swiss became relentless on Riddle start of Day 2 and had him figured out then (#450+), despite Riddle not being investigated at all. It's clear on reread that Riddle has been the scapegoat throughout this entire game, and is so now.

Also one would think, in a lylo situation, scum wouldn't keep their enemies that close, especially when there is little change in their perception. Riddle keeping Swiss alive does not make much sense in terms of winning the game. The same can be said for us and yourself McCloud because you've been anti-chuckie, but this part is bordering on wifom.

 

[Swiss]

If we appeared town "ish" to Swiss, and were directly questioned regarding our alignment as early as D2, why, then, did Swiss not investigate Chuckie for a good 3 Nights?

"I'll present a case on his alignment tomorrow" is suggestive in the sense that he should have investigated us by now at this point in lylo, based on his thinking this game. That didn't happen. His thoughts and play in-game don't reflect his cop play at all.

I was gonna investigate you, but I ASKED PEOPLE WHO I SHOULD INVESTIGATE by saying "who is most scummy?" and getting answers from you all. I then investigated the person found to be scummiest.

Bullsh*t all you want, but that's ridiculous.


McCloud, you really gotta step in and make a decision. Please, please hammer Riddle. Remember what I said about any night actions as well - that's vital.

 

[Chuckie]

It's not ridiculous because on numerous occasions you questioned our alignment and not once investigated us.

So show us examples of where you asked people who was scummy and we'll see if that correlates with the people you suspected. McCloud/(apparently) Zensei expressed suspicion on Chuckie D3, as did you by questioning us, and yet you didn't follow that at all. Your cop play isn't reflective of your play in-game at all - you had 3 NIGHTS and yet you continuously harped on about you're unsure about us, why we did this, why we did that etc... it's ridiculous to think you could get away with claiming a cop when you didn't even do the duty in clearing those you were most shaky about.

You didn't even have the decency to organise a case on Riddle or make town push him when you found out he was scum D3, even when he asked you "why" and you refused to present any reasoning by telling him to go look it up himself. What gives you away is that you prioritised other people as suspects as well. It couldn't be anymore obvious. All you've done toDay is use information from a fake claim to make the attempt in fooling McCloud.

The problem is you guys have done very well in keeping McCloud alive because he's been anti-chuckie the whole game. So props to you on that. However, what I will say is why on earth would we keep McCloud alive and kill off Tanny, who always thought we were town, in LYLO? Why would Riddle keep you (Swiss) alive who paraded against him as early as D2 and showed no signs of budging? It's almost counter-productive from the scum POV because that doesn't win the game - keeping enemies close who aren't inclined to sway their perception leading up to lylo is exactly what scum doesn't need. Of course we can't PROVE this, but realise that it's not logical for scum to keep someone who wants them dead alive, let alone a player who has consistently wanted them dead from as early as D2!

 

[McCloud]

hihihi, have internet, still reading. Suspicion on Chuckie is coming back. Bigger update in the works.

 

[Chuckie]

I'd love to hit you with a toy tractor, but I can't.

 

[McCloud]

Also, Swiss seems slightly more scummy at the moment than riddle. Finishing page 19

 

[Swiss]

Also, Swiss seems slightly more scummy at the moment than riddle. Finishing page 19

WHAT?

WHAT WHAT WHAT???

Re-read.

RE-F*******G-READ!

 

[Riddle]

Wtf was with that reaction?

 

[McCloud]

haha, so if I read this properly it's Chuckie + Riddle or Zen + Swiss.

Chuckie's scum and I'm sold on that point. The wifom and the breakdown of why he was on swords struck me as really scummy. It has the air of "IF I did it, here's how it happened" sort of deal.

I reread and I saw Zen's point about the switches being turned on and it doesn't add up with Riddle's jailer switch, so that helps. Also, Zen is town in my mind.

I'm down with Chuckie + Riddle scumteam lynch.

 

[McCloud]

Also, I lol'd at Chuckie's "pretty sure McCloud is town."

*several posts later*

"Since when was mccloud confirmed town"

 

[Riddle]

So you gonna hammer and win the game for scum McCloud?

 

[McCloud]

I mean, sure why not.

vote: Riddle

SURPRISE I'M SCUM LOLOLOL.

Just kidding, I have a very good feeling about this lynch. It was always close between Swiss and Riddle cause I didn't understand why Swiss initially pushed so hard, but Zen's posts echoed my thoughts regarding the switches and he found something that I hadn't thought about so yeah.

If I lost it for town just now, well, sorry, but head and heart are telling me this is the right choice, and you can't get much better than that.

 

[Kataefi]

Um. McCloud you're wrong =/ You do realise there was a semi-counterclaim against Zen, which is something you'd have realised if you read our posts. And that Swiss pushed other lynches before Riddle, but claimed a cop who outed Riddle as scum...

I'm happy Chuckie sussed it out though. It's a shame Tanny died instead. GGs.

 

[Riddle]

GG sc um.

 

[M.K]

Game will be updated when I contact Xiivi/he contacts me.

Xiivi, if you see this, AIM ME YOU LITTLE RASCAL :D​

 

[Tandora]

Oh god, don't taunt us this way. ;_;

 

[vanderzant]

Uhhh, inactives ruin games... (no hard feelings McCloud)

But at least Chuckie was right (I think)

GG scum Swiss and Zensei

 

[M.K]

Day 4 ENDS! PikMafia Officially Ends! SCUM WINS!

End Game Vote Count

Riddle- McCloud, Zensei, Swiss
(

)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You guys, I'm not lying to you, I would never lie to y---"

The Pikmin crowd was growing increasingly hostile with every blow they took. Even starting the day with 100 Pikmin, the crowd dwindled through the days with deaths and deception. The Pikmin above was quickly apprehended by the White Pikmin. The White Pikmin stared directly into the eyes of the scared Blue Pikmin, and a seeping, burning poison dripped from the eyelids of the White Pikmin. The poison fell onto the skin of the Blue Pikmin, who began to shriek in terror, and eventually was riddled with holes of burning poison. The carcass fell to the ground and the remaining Pikmin stared in terror of the White Pikmin.

Riddle, the Blue Pikmin, the Town Jailkeeper, has been lynched!!!

At that moment, a gigantic Pileated Snagret emerged from the ground beneath the White Pikmin. Riding the behemoth to the sky's edge, the White Pikmin sat plastered to the feather crest of the beast. The remaining Pikmin tried to run, they did, but it was too late. The Pileated Snagret hopped along, crushing the bodies of the Purple Pikmin beneath it's taloned foot. The Pikmin that managed to outrun the beast were snapped in half by it's gigantic beak, then gulped down.
At last, the final soldier of the once formidable Pikmin army, the Purple Pikmin was hurled into the air and ripped apart by the Pileated Snagret. The White Pikmin riding upon the top of the Snagret laughed in terror and deceit, as the Pileated Snagret rampaged through the now-ravaged Pikmin Planet. All hope was lost for order, and chaos ensued as the Snagret hopped into the setting sun, and the White Pikmin returned to their underground lairs.

Chuckie, the Purple Pikmin, the Town Doublevoter, has been endgamed!

McCloud, the Pellet Posy, the Vanilla Townie, has been endgamed

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Winners!

Congratulations Zensei, the White Pikmin, the Mafia Hitman, you have officially been designated the winner of PikMafia!

Congratulations Swiss, the Pileated Snagret, the Mafia Goon, you have officially been designated the winner of PikMafia!


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Congratulations to our winners! A follow up post to this post will be made showing the night actions/roles/role PMs/critique of players.
I appreciate EVERY and ALL comments you have to make about my moderating skills. I thank you SO SO SO much as players for participating, it was truly a WONDERFUL experience that I would MUCH like to do again in the future. Really, you guys made a very laborious procedure, designing the game with help from our co-mod Xiivi, and turned it into an insanely rewarding experience. I would absolutely love to host all of you again in the future, and I would appreciate some comments about the game/my modding/what not.

Remember, a follow up post is coming with all roles/critique of players. All players are allowed to post in the thread now!!!



​