[M-1,7,15,18] PikMafia - The End! Scum Wins!

[Chuckie]

Changed my mind (vanz) temporarily

K, I'm done with the vacay and catching up.

Chuckie is not very protown. Swiss is eh...Swiss, Riddle does make a good point with the tunneling. I see the scumminess, but I'm not sure it's enough that you would keep on him so heavily especially toward the latter stages of the game.

Unvote

Vote: McCloud

 

[Kirbyoshi]

44: Slightly scummy question (“What do I need to stay away from to convince you I’m not scum?”) Why would he need to know how to show us he's not scum? If you play as town, you will most likely act town.
57: Preemptively justifies the question in 44 (no one had questioned him on it yet) Paranoid because he knows that was a bad question to ask. Town would have just left it, and answered accusations as they came up.
164: Wagons Green with no reasoning Reasonless votes: 1
169: Dismisses Kat/Swiss as nothing (even considering how long it lasted? Really?) Everyone should have drawn something from that. Only scum would not have cared.
208, 210, 212, 214, 216, 218: Makes a short/weak/hypocritical case on Swiss Hypocrisy is scummy
252: Hops on Green wagon VERY late, with no reason other than “OOO, more info!” Reasonless votes: 2
294: Votes Jungle with no reasoning Reasonless votes: 3
313: Affirms that town=protag and scum=antag. We now know differently. (Swords did this later on to “prove” he was town) Slight connection to a confirmed scum
338: Somewhat backtracks
354: More backtracking, trying to justify contradictory NK analysis Scum would try to throw town off as to how the NK's happened. It creates confusion, which is scum's friend.
395: Unvotes Chuckie and votes Swords, again with very little reasoning other than that he’s embracing his barnacle identity Reasonless votes: 4
441: “Sure, if you wanna lynch Swords, go for it. I’m already on the wagon, after all” This is where the softbus happens
451: Ignores points against him already laid out by Swiss Ignoring cases is scummy.
454: Lazy, doesn’t wanna look for the case himself See above
501: Still wants Swords dead More softbussing
504: Offers to be the L-1 vote REALLY weak attempt at trying to appear helpful.
513: Calls an obviously pro-town play questionable Throwing doubt onto a pro-town play is scummy.
593: “Make sure that ISO is good!” WTF? Scummy intimidation tactic

There. I've taken out the useless posts, and my analysis is in lime. NOW will you actually acknowledge it?

 

[Swiss]

Changed my mind (vanz) temporarily



Unvote

Vote: McCloud

Why did you vote McCloud?

Which part of the post did you find scummy?

 

[Riddle]

Kirbyoshi, if you're going to make a case like that will you quote posts? It makes it much easier for everyone to verify your accuracy and for me to defend myself. The way it is now it would be much easier for you to manipulate or misinterpret what I said and have nobody notice.

 

[Tandora]

Kirbyoshi, if you're going to make a case like that will you quote posts? It makes it much easier for everyone to verify your accuracy and for me to defend myself. The way it is now it would be much easier for you to manipulate or misinterpret what I said and have nobody notice.

Riddle, he labeled the post number in his ISO like I do in mine.

How about we get a real post from you stating your opinion on other players instead of these constant "Try harder" posts you keep throwing out?

 

[Riddle]

Ugh fine I'll go find every single post and quote them myself with kirbyo's explanations and then defend myself.

Not until tennis camp is over though.

 

[Xivii]

Hey, I'm in to replace TPK or somebody along those lines. I'll reread tomorrow and post my thoughts.

in b4 mccloud is mafia

Hey guys, letting you know I'll have my post up tonight. I have a feeling I am ahead of everyone time wise (Europe)

I haven't been able to get through the dense forest of this game yet, but from what I see so far, Vat has made a very hard push on Swiss for little reason in my opinion.

Greenstreet seems scummy but I hear there is a bandwagon on him, so I'm hesitant.

Zensei appears to be relatively town sided or neutral.

Swiss made a pretty decent defense, and though I agree with Vat's fos on him, I think Vat came on a little too strong, making Swiss overly defensive.

Will update more as I get through all of it. Lot to process.

fos Vat and Green

No, this is actually the first time I've actually known you were a part of this game, vander. I was referring to Vat



Degrees are of utmost importance in reading people. There are nuances. There's a difference between making a legitimate fos (which he did) and keeping that up and eventually tunneling on Swiss. In my opinion, he made Swiss more defensive than he needed to be, which added to Swiss' suspicion.

Still, I'm only on like page four, so I have a ways to go with analysis.

Ahhh ***muffins. Yeah I mean Kat. Sorry XD

Ok, I am going to a concert tonight, and I do not want to hammer on greenstreet. I find him relatively scummy over the past couple days, but I think I'd rather vote Riddle.

Page 6 is full of Riddle making a heavy fos on Swiss that wasn't present before. He accuses him of buddying with zant? Wha?

I promise I'll have isos up soon as my reading of the thread is done, just need to go back through and pick out everything I want to talk about. Sorry for the delay all..

vote: Riddle

and before I get flak for not voting Green, I am not hammering simply because I don't feel I have sufficient knowledge of this game yet to end the day.

I agree, I have no idea what that means. Also, if there's a counter claim to tracker, claim now with your report. Otherwise, if there's a doctor or a bodyguard, be on Chaco.

This is full of the most circular logic I've ever seen.

Chaco, can you give your report? There are two deaths. Which one did Jungle visit? You claimed tracker right?

Can one person unvote so we're not at L-1? It's rather risky and we haven't gotten the full story yet. I'd like to make sure.

I find it odd that Chuckie has yet to really give any signs of pressure. He's on the chopping block...

However in an 11 person game I'm fairly confident there are more than two mafia. Considering we got a third party yesterday, this leaves me with ample cause for concern.

Here's the thing, though. If there was another tracker in the game, surely they would have claimed by now. I'm not discounting other power roles, but specifically the tracker in this case because it's what's at stake. I'm more inclined to believe Chaco at this moment, but I'll update fully when I come home. It's my baby cousin's birfdeeeyyy. ;D

@Zen, reluctantly, yes. I tend to discount power role claims in forum mafia unless there's nothing else to go on, simply because it's easy as hell for mafia to fake.

Swiss, you know he is at l-1, so unvote. There hasn't been nearly enough discussion and we are nowhere near the deadline. Longer days = better for town.

Swiss looks really scummy to me. Votes Riddle, unvotes, votes Swords, without much more than "he's scum."

No, that's an awful idea. What the ****? You don't hand out quicklynches. Quit being ********.

vote: Swiss

Where the hell do you not get the idea that quicklynches are bad? The very definition of a quicklynch means that the day will be cut short.

Yes I skimmed, so I didn't see that he'd claim at L-1, but that doesn't change the fact that you're offering anyone the ability to quicklynch him. 11 person game I'd say there's probably 3 mafia, and if anyone of the mafia haven't already voted, we're ****ed. If you want him to claim at L-1, you wait until closer to the deadline. It makes for much safer play.

Please unvote.

EBWODP: I meant your vote on Swords. I haven't seen much from you regarding Swords, but again, I'm skimming.

Because there's three days left of discussion. Ending it early means we lose out on info, even if we get one mafia. The info is more important towards endgame.

Yeah, I'm still catching up on everything, I just don't want anyone ending the day early.

I've seen town quicklynch on lylo and nonlylo days. I've seen scum do the same. If the opportunity exists for town to **** up, they will **** up. It is Murphy's Law in action. Thus, we don't need any retardedness. Don't get mad at me for wanting to play safe, lol.

Let's take a chill pill everyone. The final hammer should fall on Wednesday, not today.

I'll be v/la with the ability to intermittently check at night and post but (going to London) don't expect any overly long thought out posts, just a heads up. I will be back in Paris with full time for accessing things on the 13th.

What happened to not hammering yet? Are you people crazy?

in for a second - saw my name mentioned as a free pass. lol, no. v/la doesn't count as free pass, it operates under the assumption that I'll catch up when I can. Which is tomorrow..

K, I'm done with the vacay and catching up.

Chuckie is not very protown. Swiss is eh...Swiss, Riddle does make a good point with the tunneling. I see the scumminess, but I'm not sure it's enough that you would keep on him so heavily especially toward the latter stages of the game.

I mean, regardless of whether or not more information came up, it's always preferable to wait until closer to the deadline. That, and it sets a precedent for a slow and patient town, which is good. Mafia always wants quicklynches, we have to deny them that.

McCloud this is all you have posted this game and it's D3. You came in D1. You keep promising that you're going to post some stuff, but all you have posted are minor comments and more promises. Sup?

Reading through your posts I noticed that you're strongly oppose letting the day end before it needs to be, yet you haven't utilized our time on any of the days. Why is this? I've seen little contribution from you at all.

What are your thoughts on the Swords lynch? You got pretty upset when Swiss put Swords at L-1. In fact you were the one who kept proposing that we wait until the last minute to hammer. Then you hardly posted any contribution towards figuring out the lynch. I understand you had an excuse, but this was like the 3rd time you said you had to be some where and when you got back you would give your thoughts, but you still haven't.

Also noticed you only voted twice in this game: Once for Riddle and once for Swiss. Who do you find the most suspicious at this point of the game? i.e who would you want to lynch today?

 

[McCloud]

I know. I was going to do isos when I came in, but everything in my life happened all at once. So I'm sorry I didn't deliver on super long posts, but you guys will have to do with these short ones.

I asked for a longer day, but then I went on vacation to the UK -_- I don't claim that these are excuses, but the dynamic of my posts has to change cause I'm v/la.

I was fine with the swords lynch, I just didn't want it to happen prematurely. I am an advocate of having discussion up until the very last possible moment, even if it's clear who we're voting. It gives us more information.

I still don't like Chuckie. He stands out to me as scummy. He claims someone was giving me a free pass, which wasn't true. Swiss was overeager on the tunneling on Riddle, and I wanted to put pressure on him.

Tandora and Kirby are null reads to me, but then again I've only been glossing over.

I like vander. I wouldn't say I trust him blindly or anything, but he leans town sided to me. He's been constructive in ways that mafia wouldn't have to be.

so yeah, I'm lazy, and I apologize. I'm doing these kinds of posts instead cause it's just too much work

 

[McCloud]

EBWODP: I'd probably push for a Chuckie lynch today, not having too strong of a fos on anyone else.

 

[Xivii]

I still don't like Chuckie. He stands out to me as scummy. He claims someone was giving me a free pass, which wasn't true. Swiss was overeager on the tunneling on Riddle, and I wanted to put pressure on him.


I like vander. I wouldn't say I trust him blindly or anything, but he leans town sided to me. He's been constructive in ways that mafia wouldn't have to be.

...Chukie and van are the same person...

 

[McCloud]

.....what?

 

[McCloud]

EBWODP: Also, I forgot that vander is dead XD

 

[Xivii]

Chukie is a hydra of Kat and Van.

Are you suspicious of chukie or not lol?? If you are can you explain why with specific posts/evidence..

 

[Kirbyoshi]

McCloud, I WAS giving you a free pass >.> Recent events might make me change my mind though...

 

[Chuckie]

Why did you vote McCloud?

Which part of the post did you find scummy?

The part where he didn't take a stance.

I still don't like Chuckie. He stands out to me as scummy. He claims someone was giving me a free pass, which wasn't true. Swiss was overeager on the tunneling on Riddle, and I wanted to put pressure on him.

Seriously, you're either scum or dumb. As Kirby said, he DID give you a free pass. Heck, heaps of people were also giving you free passes based on the fact that you were V/LA.

What do you think of Zensei and his case on you?

 

[McCloud]

Seriously, you're either scum or dumb. As Kirby said, he DID give you a free pass. Heck, heaps of people were also giving you free passes based on the fact that you were V/LA.

What do you think of Zensei and his case on you?

This is the part where I find you really scummy. I guess since your van main is dead you came back in as Chuckie.

I didn't ask for free passes, and for anyone to say that they gave me a free pass is scummy.

And Zen didn't "make a case" on me, he just asked me why I wasn't more productive. I agreed that I wasn't more productive and I didn't fulfill my full update promises, and that's about all there is to it.

 

[Chuckie]

This is the part where I find you really scummy. I guess since your van main is dead you came back in as Chuckie.

I didn't ask for free passes, and for anyone to say that they gave me a free pass is scummy.

And Zen didn't "make a case" on me, he just asked me why I wasn't more productive. I agreed that I wasn't more productive and I didn't fulfill my full update promises, and that's about all there is to it.

You're severely skimming then. Kirbyoshi had/has a theory that all scum are coloured Pikmin. Now apart from this being 100% impossible to prove (and I'm willing to bet my hat it's not the case) he's essentially excluding you, Tanny, and Swiss from his suspect list PURELY based on flavour.

And you find me scummy for pointing out that Kirby considered you to be Town for a TERRIBLE reason?

Also, I'd like to know what you think of Zensei specifically. You never said anything about him in your #648. Why?

 

[Swiss]

The part where he didn't take a stance.

He has to take a stance straight away? What?

He made points, and gave opinions on people.

I think you may have just swapped your wtf tunnel vision from me to McCloud.

 

[Chuckie]

Swiss it's called "scum hunting" for a reason. You should try it sometime.

But just for LOL's

"Chuckie is not very protown" (NO reason).
"Swiss is eh... Riddle does make a good point... I see the scumminess, but I'm not sure it's enough..." (Incredibly wishy washy)

It's bad enough that no one else bothered to notice this post.

 

[Tandora]

I think the real question to ask about McCloud is "Is he dumb enough to forget Vanderzant was night killed if he was scum?" Or if McCloud is playing mind games, "Is he smart enough to fake forgetting Vanderzant was nightkill?"

McCloud's constant skimming and forgetting of details is enough evidence to put him scum or dumb for me.

VOTE MCCLOUD

 

[McCloud]

Failvote, but sure, keep it up.

I'm not dumb nor am I scum. Forgetting van's death and his subsequent return as Chuckie is not a very difficult thing today in the midst of a 5 day v/la. I saw it and corrected it after someone pointed it out. It still does not change my feelings for chuckie, nor my feelings for van when he was alive (surprise surprise, I was right.)

Take it for what you will.

 

[Tandora]

Deadline is tomorrow. Who's gonna be our lynch?

 

[Swiss]

@ mod - can we have a vote count?

Riddle would be a good lynch. But, seeings as I don't think I'll be able to make that happen anytime soon, I don't know.

Re-reading.

 

[McCloud]

Apparently me.

 

[Tandora]

@ Metakirby, can we have another vote count please?

Kirbyoshi was at L-1. McCloud was not on the wagon. What does this mean?

Theory 1: Kirbyoshi and McCloud are both scum.
If McCloud was scum, he could have quick hammered Kirbyoshi if Kirbyoshi was town.

Theory 2: McCloud is town.
McCloud didn't hammer because he wanted to give town as much time as possible and he wasn't sure if Kirbyoshi was scum.

Theory 3: McCloud and Swords are both scum. Kirbyoshi is town.
When Swords was at L-1 McCloud made several loud desperate posts of "No one quicklynch or we'll get you tomorrow regardless of flip." No such statement was repeated for today, implying that he didn't care if a townie was hit instead of his scumbuddy. Also, McCloud never voted for Swords at any point, even before the wagon. McCloud is playing it slow because if he had quicklynched Kirbyoshi, town would have jumped on him for going against his previous no quicklynch philosophy.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

The way I count up the votes, it's Swiss and me on Riddle, Riddle and Zen on me, and Chuckie and Tanny on McCloud.

@Tanny: What does your second theory say about my alignment? Regardless of the answer, the third theory brings up a good point. And apparently, according to McCloud's standards, unless it's 10 minutes to deadline, it's a quicklynch. So why does he seem to be ok with me being quicklynched? (@McCloud)

 

[McCloud]

Um, probably that I wasn't here for pretty much of it. Convenient to leave that out when you're making your theories..

 

[Chuckie]

ChuckieKat's in a mood for bullying others! A tooth is wobbling and it's PAINFUL!

Unvote
Vote: Swiss!



Swords was specific - he wanted Green over Swiss and then proclaimed he'll find Swiss scum if Green is scum. How convenient for Green to have popped up not-scum. I find this an important detail!

Also, Swords would have known Green's "not-scum" alignment, so assuming Swiss were town, why would Swords clear him in his thoughts so early and in such a clearcut manner? Surely scum want suspects to incriminate, not clears? And it's not a case of scum saying "but I think this person is town" just to look townie themselves if said person is lynched, because everyone can say that --> this was Swords actively clearing Swiss because he knew Green was going to flip "not-scum", and I can't see that being beneficial to Swords as a scummie unless Swiss was also a scummie with him =D Would Swords have limited his options this way?

Adding to that, there was no neutrality, it was very "if Green is scum, then Swiss is scum" - which was an off thing to say from Swords considering he firstly found Swiss scummy from points Kat brought up earlier, which were independent of the whole Green/Swiss connection that was emphasised later on. So how could swords come to the conclusion that Swiss was town based on Green's flip when some of his suspicions were also independent of this?

Along with Swords' question to myself D1 (which I posted earlier), I'm implying Swords showed a concern for Swiss not dying and remaining safe.
_

SWORDS IS AT L-1, NO-ONE QUICKLYNCH HIM.

Regardless of his flip - we'll lynch you tomorrow.

There WILL BE NO QUICK LUNCH.

It will be the death of whoever does it.

It will however make Swords claim. Where the f*ck did you get the idea the day will be cut short?

Swords - claim now.

unvote

No mafia would make that quick lynch - we'd lynch them 2mo FOR SURE.

I don't understand why you are so worried about this. One town for a mafia is a good trade any day (except lylo, obv)

"Regardless of flip" is an interesting turn of phrase because it almost sounds threatening, as do many of the other phrases you've used amongst these quotes. Would you have simply lynched the quicklyncher with no questioning?

Also look at the secondary quote, and the final question:- surely a quicklynch does exactly that? Therefore, your question doesn't show concern with the Day and the information we get out of it being cut short, otherwise you wouldn't have asked this question - rather it shows a direct concern for Swords' safety being cut short imo, and I've shown above that this interaction is symbiotic - both Swords and Swiss have subtly expressed concerns for one another regarding their safety and I think it showed in both D1 and D2. I think this also explains your threatening behaviour.

@Swiss:- Curiously, for what other reasons didn't you want a quicklynch?
_

Also @Swiss:- why did you unvote when you felt Swords being at L-1 "will make [him] claim"? Why was your vote on Swords when originally you found Riddle much scummier? Also could you explain the third quote where you say "one town for a mafia is a good trade any day"?

And because of your persistence regarding Swords' claim, when he finally did claim, you simply opened up with "any counter claims?", as if to accept it was brownie townie from the offset with no dispute. Could you link me to other games where you have encountered a bomb, because afaik this is your second game here, and I expected a different reaction from you. I found it to be very interesting... you build up Swords' claim as something important by referring to it constantly and yet the climax of his claim was simply met with "Hmmmm, K"

tell me tell me tell me!

:bigrocket
_

@The Town Hall:- I really think we should go Swiss first!

 

[Swiss]

ChuckieKat's in a mood for bullying others! A tooth is wobbling and it's PAINFUL!

Unvote
Vote: Swiss!



Swords was specific - he wanted Green over Swiss and then proclaimed he'll find Swiss scum if Green is scum. How convenient for Green to have popped up not-scum. I find this an important detail!

Also, Swords would have known Green's "not-scum" alignment, so assuming Swiss were town, why would Swords clear him in his thoughts so early and in such a clearcut manner? Surely scum want suspects to incriminate, not clears? And it's not a case of scum saying "but I think this person is town" just to look townie themselves if said person is lynched, because everyone can say that --> this was Swords actively clearing Swiss because he knew Green was going to flip "not-scum", and I can't see that being beneficial to Swords as a scummie unless Swiss was also a scummie with him =D Would Swords have limited his options this way?

Is it limiting options or is it trying to buddy up to someone? WIFOM WIFOM! Also, Swords was concerned with NOT getting himself lynched, so this was a perfect opportunity for him to try and get someone on his side. Why would he try and buddy someone he was scum aligned with? He wouldn't.

Adding to that, there was no neutrality, it was very "if Green is scum, then Swiss is scum" - which was an off thing to say from Swords considering he firstly found Swiss scummy from points Kat brought up earlier, which were independent of the whole Green/Swiss connection that was emphasised later on. So how could swords come to the conclusion that Swiss was town based on Green's flip when some of his suspicions were also independent of this?

At the risk of sounding obtuse, what? Layman's terms, please.

Along with Swords' question to myself D1 (which I posted earlier), I'm implying Swords showed a concern for Swiss not dying and remaining safe.

Yet I was never at risk of being lynched

"Regardless of flip" is an interesting turn of phrase because it almost sounds threatening, as do many of the other phrases you've used amongst these quotes. Would you have simply lynched the quicklyncher with no questioning?

IMPORTANT POINT:

This is what makes me think you're deliberately being obtuse. Why would I say this? It's a deterrent for ANYONE to quick lynch. We DID NOT want a quick lynch, had I said "Ill b well suspicious of sum1 if dey hammer him" a dumb townie may well have hammered thinking they were playing in our best interest. Me saying this stops ANYONE hammering him for the moment - Ofc I probably wouldn't have single handedly lead a tunnely lynch on the person had they hammered, but my warning stopped anyone hammering at the risk of being lynched the et day. It was NOT in town's best interest to quick lynch him.

Why did I want him at L-1, so he claimed.

I explained all this before, and no-one else seems to have had a major problem with it. Why bring it up again so late, especially after it's been explained?

Also look at the secondary quote, and the final question:- surely a quicklynch does exactly that? Therefore, your question doesn't show concern with the Day and the information we get out of it being cut short, otherwise you wouldn't have asked this question - rather it shows a direct concern for Swords' safety being cut short imo, and I've shown above that this interaction is symbiotic - both Swords and Swiss have subtly expressed concerns for one another regarding their safety and I think it showed in both D1 and D2. I think this also explains your threatening behaviour.

Again, I have never been at risk of lynch, so why WOULD Swords show all this concern you so massively talk about? Please quote this, anyway.

I also repeat that at no point did I try to stop the LYNCH - just the QUICK LYNCH.


WIFOM para:
Also, as scum I could have cruised through this stage easily with no real opinions - then I wouldn't have had some stupid case on me now. I had major opinion on D1 and took major heat for it. Turns out Green wasn't townie - but I wasn't aligned with him - regardless that people thought I was. Now we have a scum and again you think I'm aligned with him. Massive WIFOM here, but my meta works in my favour.

@Swiss:- Curiously, for what other reasons didn't you want a quicklynch?

We get more info. Someone trying to stop the lynch, or make a feeble case on him - also people pushing it too hard for easy scum bussing kudos.

Also @Swiss:- why did you unvote when you felt Swords being at L-1 "will make [him] claim"? Why was your vote on Swords when originally you found Riddle much scummier? Also could you explain the third quote where you say "one town for a mafia is a good trade any day"?

When did I unvote?

Town outnumber scum, thus one townie dying to kill a scum is a good thing. This is obvious - if they outnumbered us, we'd have lost already.

And because of your persistence regarding Swords' claim, when he finally did claim, you simply opened up with "any counter claims?", as if to accept it was brownie townie from the offset with no dispute. Could you link me to other games where you have encountered a bomb, because afaik this is your second game here, and I expected a different reaction from you. I found it to be very interesting... you build up Swords' claim as something important by referring to it constantly and yet the climax of his claim was simply met with "Hmmmm, K"

HUH? asking if there are any counter claims means I AUTOMATICALLY BELIEVE HIS CLAIM? WHAT?

I play on mafia scum as well. I've never encountered a bomb before, but they have been discussed in our games. I fail to see how this matters.



All I see here are ridiculously tenuous links to Swords. All you have is some bad links to Swords - where is what I've done? Where are my scummy actions?

I don't want to be rude, but that it some BS case you just threw out there.


What are people's opinions on Chuckie's case? Do you think he is tunnelly?

Also, does this mean both McCloud and myself are scum? Have you have rooted us both out? Or is it just me who is scum?

 

[M.K]

2nd Vote Count!


McCloud- Tandora
(

)

Riddle- Swiss, Kirbyoshi
(

)

Kirbyoshi- Riddle, Zensei
(

)

Swiss- Chuckie
(

)

Not Voting- McCloud
(

)

With 7 Alive, it Takes 4 to Lynch!

The Pikmin Will Finish Harvesting the Emperor's Corpse on:

The Last Moments of July 17th, 2010.


​

 

[McCloud]

I could do with more pressure on Swiss.

vote: Swiss

Swiss, without defending yourself against him, what are your thoughts on Chuckie? Is he a misled town, or absolute scum? Would you change your vote at all?

 

[Swiss]

I just don't know. I'd like to believe he is mislead town, I really would. I'll present a case on his alignment tomorrow, I'll need some time to think it over.

I really, really don't want to unvote Riddle. He's the only person I actually have a scum read on.

 

[Xivii]

Eh McCloud is looking more like just plain inactive/skimming. I don't necessarily see him as for sure scum and I think attempting to pressure him into contributing at this point might be a waste of time. The only thing I don't get is why the hell he has such strong feelings for chukie being scum. I think he just doesn't like Kat's play style ~_^?

Anyways McCloud is looking more like fair lynch choice only in the case that there is no other viable choice. And right now I'm KY is really looking like the best choice to me.

PBP

D1

Cool Stuff. Consider my role confirmed.

Ugh, sorry guys, I claim computer johns, but I'm here now. Reading up and posting.

First off it took him 6 days to post since his confirmation. This isn't a scumtell and he explained he had computer problems so there's not much to look into here.

Ugh, I'm back, sorry for my probz. I should be ok from now on though.

Vote: Greenstreet
You TOTALLY set Vandy up on the active/inactive thing, and I don't like it.

This is very poor however. He's gone for most of the game so far and then comes in and joins the wagon with little reason, and the reason he does give is a bad one. Like something out of the hat.

At this point people barely had a case on greenstreet, it's odd that Kirbyoshi jumped right on it not even for the reason people found Green suspicious.

I think we should get more Greenstreet votes Swiss. Why are you so anxious to call it a day?

This was a reply to Swiss' statement 'Shall we just give scum the win through inactivity and call it a day then?" as response to the inactivity at this time in the game.

He doesn't further his reasoning for his vote on Green any further. He simply calls for more on his wagon. Where's the reasoning? (btw Green only has 2 votes at this time).

Also I don't even know what to think about the question at Swiss .-. did he really think Swiss was being literal? Pseudo contributing questions like those are always supicious to me.

Clarification on my Green vote: I believe you purposely got Vand to say he was heavily on the side of pressuring inactives, or at least make it sound like that to the "weak-minded." Then, when suspicion was put on you, it enabled you to say something like "but you said..." I, however, am a "Toydarian" of sorts, in that I am not as easily fooled by that. THAT is why I'm voting for you. Going against popular opinion just for the sake of going against popular opinion is never pro-town, but is also very rarely scummy.

KY finally decides to clarify more on his vote after 3 posts from Green questioning him and then voting for him.

#168,
#184, #185

And the clarification isn't all that great. His main reason for voting Green is because he thinks green set up Vanz? No matter how I look at it, there was no indication of Green attempting to set up Vanz at all...

@Green: No one is trying to lynch inactives - yet. Their mentions/posts ratio is always significantly higher than actives, simply because we don't want to forget they're there, combined with the fact that they simply don't post much. You want the game to have a balanced perspective? It starts with you. You want to focus on everyone? Focus on everyone. Just dont purposely focus on people who you don't feel are getting attention with no reason.

@Vand: If you are a girl, I want you to have my babies at this moment. If not, a simple man-hug would suffice.

Nothing particularly scummy about this.

but ew at the bottom lol. Random buddying.

Summary: And that's it from him D1. His hop on Green random was fishy. He was willing to lynch someone for very bad reasoning. He did nothing other than focus on Green this day. He asked no questions, barely provideded any thoughts, and only interacted a couple of times with other players. Being scum, he wouldn't have known Green was indy, only that he was easy to get rid of while making few connections. And as I review the posts, that's what it is looking like.

This is mostly a hunch however. My personal suspicious of Kirbyoshi didn't come until D2.


D2

*Waits on Jungle's explanation*

Also a little suspicious of Swiss now, connections, WIFOM, blah, blah, blah...

As you will notice Jungle becomes KYs primary target for the day.

@Swiss suspicion: Another suspicion that doesn't make sense. Why was he suspicious of Swiss based of connections? What connections? Connections to the INDEPENDENT?

@Zen: Could you explain what info we get by speculating on which kill was from scum and which kill wasn't? (Non-accusing tone)

@All: Ok, so even though my char icon is Oli, I admit I've never actually played a Pikmin game. Are there any species/chars in Pikmin that are large that are actually good guys? I'd like everyone to answer this.

His question to me was referring to me asking Riddle what he thought of the NKs. My goal wasn't to speculate the NKs but rather to get a read on Riddle. This is another question that looks like pseudo contributing to me.

Let the flavor game begin.

@Chaco: Would you rather lynch Jungle, or have him be modkilled (if possible)? And would Purple Pikmin have heavy footsteps (lawl @ not knowing flavor flav)?

Well Zen, Chaco could be leading everyone in the wrong direction, or he could be leading everyone in the right direction. That's just it: we simply don't know. There's no way to confirm it. If he's telling the truth, we lynch Jungle (or Jungle's replacement). But at this point, we don't know. I hesitate to say this, but I actually think a Jungle modkill would be beneficial to town. If Jungle is town, we lynch Chaco. Scum caught. If Jungle is scum, we may lose an investigative role, but a scum is still dead.

I had a bit of trouble understanding why Chaco and Kirbyoshi prefered a mod kill than a replacement. A replacement can at least explain and prevent us from mislynching.

Yeah Chaco, I get what you're saying. It could also be that ****er from Distant Planet on Brawl, y'know, the one that eats you? What's his name...Bulborb?

Ninja'd:

@Zen: Agreed.

Not much here.

Ugh. At this point Swiss, I'd say we figure out our lynch after Jungle is modkilled, honestly. After Jungle is modkilled, provided he's scum, the Day will not end. In that case, we play the day normally.

Can he not look into people other than Jungle? Why must we put the whole game on hold just to see what the mod decides to do with Jungle?

KY said if Jungle was mod killed and flipped scum it would have not ended the day; however, he didn't even consider that if Jungle was town the day would end. It would have been a completely wasted day while killing a townie.

It really seems like he was, again, trying to go for the easiest lynch as soon as possible while making few connections. This is where my suspicion starts to come in. The fact they I know get a strong town vibe from Chukie makes me even more suspicious of Kirbyoshi's Jungle focus.

Request Votecount

@Chuckie: You said nothing to defend yourself against current accusations. Why not? (Side note: I like the flavor of your username)

Stays on Jungle after he is replaced. Chuckie made a clear "defense" against Chaco's claim and he even highlighted it in plum. What more did Kirbyoshi want Chukie to say?

@Chaco: How much do you know about Pikmin? Scale of 1-10.

@Chuckie: Can you find any other creature in the Pikmin world that could have heavy footsteps and is not an enemy? I admit I have never played Pikmin, but I searched for one in the Pedia, but couldn't find one.

@mod: Flavor question. Is this game based on Pikmin 1 or Pikmin 2?

Flavah all day.

Thanks MK.

Yeah...

I'm waiting for Chuckie to answer my question.

Chukie/Jungle is the only one he can focus on. He doesn't dare talk to anyone else or try to scumhunt at all. Instead he lingers on with a bogus case against the weakest player.

And...what else could it be? B*ll's in your court.

Chuckie, you're at L-1. When DO you plan on nameclaiming?

Pressures Chukie into claiming when we shouldn't have even been focusing on flavor in the first place.

Was I alone with the fact that Chukie had a valid defense before?

@Chuckie: I have, as town, on D2, simply forgotten questions that I asked on D1. Forgetting is not abnormal or scummy.

That being said, Swords never claimed to have forgotten his question. Rereading on Swords, he's been under my radar.

For now: FoS: Swords

Slight defending of swords here. Places suspicious but does not join the wagon however.

Erm, Jungle=Chuckie, who just claimed, and is un-CC'd. Riddle is much more likely atm to be scum from what you said than Chuck E. Cheese.

Maybe you missed it, but Green flipped Indy. How could ANYONE know he wasn't town?

Contradiction to the start of the day when he stated suspicion on Swiss based off "connections, WIFOM, blah blah blah". Maybe he was talking about the NKs?

In theory, we now have 6 town and 3 scum out there. If all 5 "regular" colors of Pikmin are out there (red, yellow, blue, white, purple), then that means only one of us should be non-color town. I am a town player who is not a color, and Tanny has just said she is the same. So, I really don't think that colors should get a clear here.

@Everyone: Thoughts?

He was right about this. This was actually good flavor discussion.

I didn't say that. Nameclaiming maybe, but not roleclaiming. I think Swords' claim is legit. However, after being in Star Wars Mafia, with a scum doublevoter (actually played by our mod, iirc [/modmeta]), I'm slightly less inclined to believe Chuckie's roleclaim.

More support towards Swords. More suspicion against Chukie.

Ninja: Above was directed at Swiss.


Then you think that between Tanny and me there is a scum? That's the only alternative I see.

@Zen: I believe Chuckie said that RBY all started in the on position.
Also@Zen: So, just to be clear, you are of the opinion that all colors are town, correct?

I personally think some colors are scum and some are town, based on the fact that I believe both Tanny's and Swords' claims atm.

@Tanny, could I get a nameclaim from you?

@Chuckie: Why would you hammering Swords increase our chances of hitting scum?

Oh yeah that's right he's a bomb, completely forgot about that when I asked lol.

Is Swords currently at L-1?

Nothing much here.

Wait, wasn't the Dolphin destroyed with the NK?

Chaco, what do you think of my post right above yours?

WTF? It's one short sentence dude.

Chaco, if you would like to discuss this further, I suggest you unvote. If Tanny is scum, it may save us a townie (one that scum doesn't want to kill, lest they lose one of their own).

More flavor stuff. Implying that Tanny may have a false name claim. Pulling pressure away from Swords. (At least he starting to look at someone other than Chukie/Jungle)
btw this is after Swords self voted.

Vote: SwordsRBroken

Chaco revotes Swords. Swords is todays lynch. Swords unvotes. Kirbyoshi votes swords. He just now joins the wagon while never showing any suspicion towards Swords but instead more towards his defense. This is what I find the scummiest of all about KY who joins the wagon at the last minute, never showing any reasoning for himself. Later he goes along with Tanny that anyone off the wagon is likely scum and immediately votes me.

Swiss, presumably, if Riddle hammers, he'll be dead. So of course we won't lynch him toMorrow

Swiss, presumably, if Riddle hammers, he'll be dead. So of course we won't lynch him toMorrow

lol 502s

Yes Tan, that's what everyone wanted.

Now, which one of them was scum MK?

This kind of reminds me of Swords' "well this sucks" comment. Like he's trying to make it overly apparent that he doesn't know.

Summary: That's it for D2. KY began the day focusing on Jungle (The easiest target) and even started tunneling a bit. Once Chukie started making a case on Swords KY layed out of it. This was the only wagon he didn't immediately jump on. And what do you know, Swords flipped up mafia. This is extremely suspicious to me as it goes against his hop on easy targets and end the day quickly routine. This whole Day makes me almost confident that KY is scum. His D3 play only confirms my suspicions.

D3

I still think there's 3, but if there's 2, it makes it easier for us. Not sure why it matters strat-wise.

Vote: Zensei

Oh so now he decides to continue the pattern :D

Tanny: One of the people of the Swords wagon is scum
Kirbyoshi: Vote: Zensei he's a pikmin.

Not to mention this is the worse possible time to abuse votes like this. We just lost the last game I played because of a stupid quicklynch when it came down to a 4 vote lynch.

The choice between the two was purely flavor-based. I'm thinking that it makes sense that all Mafia are colors.

Still stuck on the flavor.


I have to go for now. I think the rest of the posts are about Riddle. bbl

My vote stays on Kirbyoshi. If anyone wants to make a case on McCloud, I'm willing to change my vote.

 

[Xivii]

Ninjad by Chukie and Swiss.

That was supposed to be post #669. I had to leave during the middle of my case.

I g2g now though bbl

lynch KY please.

 

[Kataefi]

Omg Swisscheese I can't believe you challenged us!... wii think that's as bad as taking our sweets!

Allow us the chance to refute your points, because they're very refutable

Is it limiting options or is it trying to buddy up to someone? WIFOM WIFOM! Also, Swords was concerned with NOT getting himself lynched, so this was a perfect opportunity for him to try and get someone on his side. Why would he try and buddy someone he was scum aligned with? He wouldn't.

Don't you remember? Swords wanted either Green or yourself dead but went into specifics when he said he wanted Green first. Plus there was a wealth of information you missed out entirely - it's not so much buddying when he found you suspicious and then didn't find you suspicious based on grounds he laid out completely unrelated to what he actually found suspicious about you in the first place. This is where my assumption that he was clearing you and thus limiting his options (if you are a townie) came from, which I thought was unlikely unless you were his scum compadre!

BOOYAH!

Yet I was never at risk of being lynched

Again, I have never been at risk of lynch, so why WOULD Swords show all this concern you so massively talk about? Please quote this, anyway.

Well, I sincerely hope it's none of Chuckie's strawberry sherbet that you're smoking! The decider lynch on D1 was between Green and yourself - had we not have gone Green, we most certainly would have gone for you, which makes the related points I put forward very relevant!

Why did I want him at L-1, so he claimed.

Why did you unvote Swords after McCloud applied pressure on you? Also you never answered the question regarding Riddle - why was your vote on Swords D2 when, going by your scumdar, it should have been on Riddle, considering you spoke more about Riddle than you ever did Swords?

I had major opinion on D1 and took major heat for it. Turns out Green wasn't townie - but I wasn't aligned with him - regardless that people thought I was. Now we have a scum and again you think I'm aligned with him. Massive WIFOM here, but my meta works in my favour.

Could you elaborate on this? Also what do you mean by your meta and why does it work in your favour?

This is what makes me think you're deliberately being obtuse. Why would I say this? It's a deterrent for ANYONE to quick lynch. We DID NOT want a quick lynch, had I said "Ill b well suspicious of sum1 if dey hammer him" a dumb townie may well have hammered thinking they were playing in our best interest. Me saying this stops ANYONE hammering him for the moment - Ofc I probably wouldn't have single handedly lead a tunnely lynch on the person had they hammered, but my warning stopped anyone hammering at the risk of being lynched the et day. It was NOT in town's best interest to quick lynch him.

Yes yes yes you've commented on why quicklynching is bad, but you haven't commented on the stylistics of your posts at all, which is what I'm focusing on - you were repeating yourself as if you were afraid a "dumb townie" would come in and hammer, and now that Swords has proven scum, this makes me question why this repetition was very necessary to prevent a quicklynch. It may not have been in the benefit of the town, but it also would have been a disadvantage for the mafia, because at that point there was still hope in Swords claiming and escaping, and not allowing him that chance (i.e. a quicklynch) would have been detrimental for the scummies.

Also, let me question your word choice - you mentioned on numerous occasions that the quicklyncher would simply die as law. I find it odd you'd therefore assume the quicklyncher was a "dumb townie", and not a scummie, considering that's what we're looking for, and by what you've described in your quote above. If you thought they would be a dumb townie, why would you want to quicklynch them in return?

I play on mafia scum as well. I've never encountered a bomb before, but they have been discussed in our games. I fail to see how this matters.

Hm? You've discussed them in games you've played but haven't encountered any? Extra info hurt nobody! =D Link me link me!
_

At this rate we might all go into sensory overload. I'd like a Swiss or McCloud lynch, preferably Swiss. Vanz and I want to go over everything and reconfirm our stances together!

Deadline is today!

Please follow us and kill kill Swiss, we've all been thinking it! The Swiss lynch will have a lot of information about existing living players!

 

[Chuckie]

Clearly Kat was channeling the essence of Chuckie there!

Sorry Mod Meta-K =(

 

[Chuckie]

So Kat and I are conflicting a bit on who we think is scum. At this stage I'm leaning McCloud to be scum. What Tanny is saying is spot on imo (except Kirby is beginning to lean more Townie for me). Where as Kat is more confident in Swiss being scum than I am (tbh leaning townie).

Also Swiss, notice the yellow/bolded/underlined text? I've been scum hunting toDay. And to be most effective, I had to act agressive, and like I was pretty certain, or people wouldn't of taken it as seriously, so no hard feelings. And the results have been fabulous. With a mislynch left, I'm content that we have more than enough info to win this game for Town.

I'm going to spend the rest of the Day trying to convince you and Kirby (and everyone else I guess) that Riddle is Town. Since imo we need a McCloud flip toDay.

 

[Chuckie]

Why I think Riddle is Town

FYI I sent this to Kat yesterday

Riddle
Riddle me this, riddle me that… oh boy, is it easy to just give up and decide that Riddle is scum. BUT I think that the deeper I look at it, the more I convince myself that Riddle is town. Riddle's #395 is probably the BIGGEST town tell for me:

I am inclined to believe Chaco at this point, however I will Unvote

The "Well, this sucks" tell is definitely a big one, so I am going to use my barnacle powers to

Vote: Swords

At this stage of the game, everyone and their mother had come to the conclusion that either Chaco or Jungle/Chuckie were scum. And for a good enough reason. Yet both Chuckie/Chaco had decided that they would settle their differences and instead wagon Swords. Now of all the people to look past this situation, and vote the guy who was scummy, it was Riddle (lolwtfinorite?). He was 3rd on the case, which imo constitutes as a wagon.

If Riddle were scum, WHAT POSSIBLE BENEFIT does he have for putting his own scum mate at L-3, especially when as mentioned, everyone and their mother were deciding who to execute between Chuckie and Chaco. I mean seriously, that would of taken some major balls to do as scum. If he simply had FOS'd, then sure, I could see it. But Riddle literally WAS the turning point in Sword's lynch.

Seriously, if you are going to bus someone, you are going to do it either incredibly early (i.e. only person voting them) or somewhat late (when you have admitted defeat). But to go out of your way and ignore the easy Chuckie/Chaco wagon in favour of your OWN scummate (who's reasoning for being voted, I'd go as far to say was questionable) is not a scum move.

Almost for this post alone, am I suggesting that we don't lynch Riddle toDay.

---

Also, while Kat's voting Swiss, I'll put it back on McCloud by the deadline.

 

[Tandora]

I did an ISO search for vote patterns.

Recalling that SwordsRBroken replaced Tom, I did an ISO on Tom. These two posts really stood out to me.

unvote

multi-vote: junglefever, V, Exn, Dark_Ermac for either not voting anyone or voting someone who doesnt exist. you afraid of something???

Yes, I think 3 people are scum. One is probably a roleblocker and one is probably a godfather and one is probably a goon.

We know for a fact Tom's role was scum and that Tom was not into this game. Do I think he was a jerk enough to tell town exactly what roles there were? Yes, especially since he obviously didn't give two toots for this game.

When I played Popcorn mafia, I was Tom's replacement and he buddied his scummates a lot. This is the meta we can use to find Tom's scummates now.

V and Dark Ermac aka Kat and Chacotaco have been cleared as town. That shows 50% of Tom's pushes were town. I think odds of his other votes are town too.

This would clear Jungle/Chuckie, Exn/Zensei, and Riddle. Unfortunately, none of Sword's votes would clear anyone else.

This would leave McCloud, Kirbyoshi, and Swiss as two mafia.

If I am right, this means we can afford to kill any one of these three and still have town win.

The godfather claim would have countered the tracker we have in game. I think if there was a cop, he would have claimed by now.

I'm looking to see what Greenstreet, Exn, Ermac, V, Swiss, Vanderzant think of the votes on Junglefever. We have something rolling now!

Tom pushing for these people on their thoughts of Jungle makes me think Swiss is not a scummate.

This leaves McCloud and Kirbyoshi!

Vote Kirbyoshi

 

[Chuckie]

Riddle, your case on Swiss is fail. Kat at least gave some good reasoning to back up his. You are seriously taking Swiss's one comment relating to Vander as buddying?

Is that it? Really? You have really been flying under the radar. Time for that to stop. unvote Vote: Riddle You haven't brought anything new to the discussion and you've been posting only to avoid prods. I've seen this sort of style before, nicholas1024 uses it.

I guess i'll claim when i'm put at L-1.

So unless Swords really was bussing Riddle (and Tanny, who'd be the scummate as a side thought), I think he's Town if McCloud's scum. So let's lynch McCloud first.