[M-1/2/10/17/22] Oddworld Mafia -- END! Town won!

[Dastrn]

J, I can't see Nich as the play. Seems like EP's info has quasi-cleared Nich right now. It's gotta be swiss and Mayling.

Notice which two players are ignoring the miller situation? Swiss/mayling. YOU know if you're scum or not, so you can eliminate the J/EP scum team option. All that's left is that I'm miller, meaning swiss/mayling is the most likely team of scum. There's also gordito and Cello to consider, but I feel like if either of them were scum, they wouldn't be backing off from just killing me. They'd go for the throat on an easy mislynch.

But they aren't.
And they didn't with J on D1 either.

Gordito/Cello are town. You and EP are town. I'm town. Nich is town.
All that's left is to lynch Swiss and Mayling.

EP, for the sake of making you comfortable with your decision, I'm ok with lynching Swiss first instead of mayling.
I'd like to hammer still, but I'm aware that letting a guilty have the hammer is somewhat risky. Cello can have it if he wants. I'll take it if you guys want.

The last option I'm considering is that Cello himself is the godfather. bussing joanbud, asking for himself to be copped D2, etc could all be really good godfather play. I don't think this is likely. But if we mislynch today, we're going to have to consider that option tomorrow. If it's not swiss/mayling together, I'm not confident it's EITHER of them.

 

[#HBC | J]

Actually... you couldn't. My role is completely useless. Did you miss EP saying that all that my role gave was "??? visited Smarget/Summoner". Also, could you explain why me-mafia would have claimed a PR in order to reinforce your cop claim back on D2?

I would assume to make you look more town and make your claim helluvalot safer. Also I saw EP do that but the fact that both times he has gotten absolutely NOTHING from what you have done and has gotten something from both Me AND Gordito is very weird. He saw Gordito watch Cello, and he saw him watch me. He got the innocent on Summoner and the Guilty (miller) on Xastrn. However I can see no other way you can get nothing from both of your role unless you are scum. Everyone has just assumed that since EP cleared me and Gordito that you are cleared as well.

J, I can't see Nich as the play. Seems like EP's info has quasi-cleared Nich right now. It's gotta be swiss and Mayling.

Notice which two players are ignoring the miller situation? Swiss/mayling. YOU know if you're scum or not, so you can eliminate the J/EP scum team option. All that's left is that I'm miller, meaning swiss/mayling is the most likely team of scum. There's also gordito and Cello to consider, but I feel like if either of them were scum, they wouldn't be backing off from just killing me. They'd go for the throat on an easy mislynch.

But they aren't.
And they didn't with J on D1 either.

Gordito/Cello are town. You and EP are town. I'm town. Nich is town.
All that's left is to lynch Swiss and Mayling.

EP, for the sake of making you comfortable with your decision, I'm ok with lynching Swiss first instead of mayling.
I'd like to hammer still, but I'm aware that letting a guilty have the hammer is somewhat risky. Cello can have it if he wants. I'll take it if you guys want.

The last option I'm considering is that Cello himself is the godfather. bussing joanbud, asking for himself to be copped D2, etc could all be really good godfather play. I don't think this is likely. But if we mislynch today, we're going to have to consider that option tomorrow. If it's not swiss/mayling together, I'm not confident it's EITHER of them.

*sigh* I do not want to let Nich in mylo plus I have a stronger suspicion he is scum. Also Nich has been trying to go for the easy lynches by bandwagoning the entire game. *still haven't seen those posts Nich*

However if it is needed and I have to vote then I will vote Swiss.

Hear me out though, If we do lynch Nich here is how D4 should go.

Nich = scum, Lynch Swiss
Nich = town, Lynch Mayling

Swiss has been ignoring Nich and even asked him to vote for Xas however Mayling has been looking into Nich more herself even though now she has a vote on Xas.

I know I will not be around for D4 because the Mafia will kill me. However If May or Swiss turn up town when we do lynch them we need to look at Nich.

Also canidates for Investigating?

 

[Xastrn]

You guys realize that the only two people pushing HARD for lynching us today are Mayling and Swiss, right?

Both Cello (the towniest player in this game) and J (the friggin cop) think we're town, even after the guilty-read.

@Swiss: The reason I pushed for J to investigate Cello instead of us (given the choice of one or the other) is because we've been so towny the entire game. Despite his excellent play, Cello pushed to lynch our cop two days in row. There's nothing more to it than that. We were looking an inch townier going into the night because we saved J twice. The freak out about the Cello roleblock that Swiss quoted was cleared up before the day ended (I misread a post by EP), but Swiss conveniently ignored that in his case against me.

Given all that, lynching us may be the play today, considering who's left in the game. How we flip could provide all the info town needs, as long as Cello isn't scum.

If we flip Miller, then J and EP are in the clear. J or EP die in the night. The survivor verifies that Cello isn't scum. Town lynches Swiss and Mayling the following days. Town wins. If Cello is scum, then we've got about a 50/50 chance between Mayling and Swiss, so long as EP isn't somehow getting scum investigative results along with town's.

If we flip VT, then J and EP are clearly mafia. Town lynches them the following days. Town wins.

Would I prefer not to die today? Absolutely. The variables involved in the first scenario make me hesitant to call for a Xastrn lynch, and if we lynch correctly today, then we don't have to be put at MyLo for the next two days.

The extra breathing room (and cred for not lynching a naive miller) would be very nice.

 

[Dastrn]

all that ??? means we have a janitor, right? Should we assume that the NK'er is janitoring himself/herself, or that one person is goon, the other is janitor?

 

[Xastrn]

lol, ninja'd by my own partner

 

[Mayling]

You guys realize that the only two people pushing HARD for lynching us today are Mayling and Swiss, right?

If we lynch either Swiss or Xastrn today then i'm fine with that choice

If we lynch either Swiss or Xastrn today then i'm fine with that choice

If we lynch either Swiss or Xastrn today then i'm fine with that choice

Also, I'm town. End story. You're scum. You have a guilty read on you. Swiss is probably trying to bus you to make himself look good so he can survive as long as he can to make it between me and him.

The only reason why I'd rather push for you toDay rather than toMorrow (ie, swiss above you) is so that town KNOWS it's a Swiss/Xastrn team. If it's me and you toMorrow I'm going to have to fight to defend myself and I'm TERRIBAD at it.

However, I'm fine with lynching Swiss if it comes down to that, because both of you are scum. But if it comes down between me and you I'm worried town will be like "woop doop miller!! =3" and make us lose.

The ONLY time I've said I'd want to lynch you if is someone ASKED ME 'Would you rather lynch Xastrn or Swiss, why" which I've already answered. So don't accuse me for pushing your lynch when I genuinely think getting a guilty read on someone is a legit reason to lynch someone.

Given all that, lynching us may be the play today, considering who's left in the game. How we flip could provide all the info town needs, as long as Cello isn't scum.

Even if you somehow flipped town, town would still have enough days to lynch both me and Swiss, so if you really are town, I don't see why you're so hesitant to die anyway. We can't let a guilty go into mylo, imo. there's way too much wifom.

If we flip Miller, then J and EP are in the clear. J or EP die in the night. The survivor verifies that Cello isn't scum. Town lynches Swiss and Mayling the following days. Town wins. If Cello is scum, then we've got about a 50/50 chance between Mayling and Swiss, so long as EP isn't somehow getting scum investigative results along with town's.

If we flip VT, then J and EP are clearly mafia. Town lynches them the following days. Town wins.

If getting a guilty on you and the wifom situation we would be placed in MYLO isn't enough, then in my opinion, we HAVE to know what you flip toDay, given for these very reasons. I don't see why, if you're town, you're so reluctant to die, other than you're scum.

 

[Xastrn]

Allow me to rephrase: You and Swiss are the only two people downright opposed to the idea that we are Naive Miller.

But since you are so convinced we are scum, let me ask you these things directly:

1. Why would we save J on D1 in order to pursue a Joan lynch, if we were scum?

2. Why would we save J AGAIN on D2, after he claimed cop? If we were scum, lynching J and removing the one person able to finger us would have been easy. So why save him?

Give us satisfying answers, and maybe you'll draw some heat off yourself.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

J, i can understand your case on nich but I'm Town Assist. I haven't gotten any of mafia's results sent to me through the entire game. In addition he was the first one to volunteer the information that he didn't get his results in order to save you! If he didn't volunteer that information, I probably wouldn't have claimed because I wouldn't claim just to save one person, i claimed to save multiple people. In addition to this, Nich's volunteered info matched up with what i Got - that he investigated smargaret and got the results sent in for analysis. No way mafia has a forsenics investigator and their results are sent to town for analysis. That makes no sense at all. Nich is clear.

Cello, right now I'm throwing a lot around to get people's reactions on them to better gauge the right decision. I don't mean to "insult" you.

Okay, basically it boils down to this. We have 3 players who could be scum.

-Mayling
-Swiss
-Xastrn

Lets just label that A B and C

-A
-B
-C

Just completely forgot about who is who and go with this.

Let's say we lynch C. They turn town. Mafia kills someone. The very next day whether we lynh B or C we lynch scum. So it shouldn't matter to anyone who we lynch. Since it doesn't matter who we lynch of the 3, what harm does it do to lynch Swiss or Mayling, right? This is my logic. There's also no harm in pushing Mayling over Swiss. BUT, since Xastrn got a guilty verdict, I'd prefer to go with the lynch that he DIDN"T prefer. Also Cello though town is not confirmed confirmed, and he initially wanted Mayling too. Hence , why I prefer Swiss.

Cello don't be "insulted' by it. I think you've done a great job, and can't wait to give you your props on a well played game, and I'm simply pushing this to cover all possible angles.

 

[Mayling]

Let's say we lynch C. They turn town. Mafia kills someone. The very next day whether we lynh B or C we lynch scum. So it shouldn't matter to anyone who we lynch. Since it doesn't matter who we lynch of the 3, what harm does it do to lynch Swiss or Mayling, right? This is my logic. There's also no harm in pushing Mayling over Swiss. BUT, since Xastrn got a guilty verdict, I'd prefer to go with the lynch that he DIDN"T prefer. Also Cello though town is not confirmed confirmed, and he initially wanted Mayling too. Hence , why I prefer Swiss.

I like your logic here, and I agree. To me, it doesn't ultimately matter if we go with Swiss or Xastrn. But if this is the case, why don't we go with the person that has the guilty verdict?

@Xastrn, I'm not ignoring your questions. I'm going to do a re-read and see what I find. Miller just doesn't make sense to me, and I think it's dangerous to ignore you and let you live.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Guys, it's as SIMPLE as this (and yes, this is coming from one of the people that moreso believe the guilty, but might reconsider it) :

Xastrn can very well be confirmed scum. The ONLY three players that AREN'T confirmed town are Swiss, Xastrn, and Mayling. With that in mind, ANY of the following can occour:

D3, Lynch Mayling, she flips town, NK occurs, D4, lynch Swiss, he flips scum, NK occurs, D5, lynch Xastrn, town wins.

D3, Lynch Mayling, she flips scum, NK occurs, D4, lynch Swiss, he flips town, NK occurs, D5, lynch Xastrn, town wins.

D3, Lynch Mayling, she flips scum, NK occours, D4, lynch Swiss, he flips scum, town wins.

D3, Lynch Swiss, he flips town, NK occurs, D4, lynch Mayling, she flips scum, NK occurs, D5, lynch Xastrn, town wins.

D3, Lynch Swiss, he flips scum, NK occurs, D4, lynch Mayling, she flips town, NK occurs, D5, lynch Xastrn, town wins.

D3, Lynch Swiss, he flips scum, NK occurs, D4, lynch Mayling, she flips scum, town wins.

The point is, there's no way of changing the fact that Xastrn got a guilty. So... if either Mayling or Swiss flip town, we know the other scum. Can it BE any more obvious? I didn't think so.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

So with that in mind, let's act on it.

Unvote vote: Mayling

 

[Swiss]

Notice which two players are ignoring the miller situation?

Ignoring the miller situation? YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE IN FAVOUR OF YOUR CLAIM. Had we lynched a Godfather I'd believe you. We haven't. After you try to avoid the investigation you read scum, claim miller and repeatedly fall back on "omg look I've been playing town, it's obv I'm town".

Allow me to show why you're spouting BS. It has been said by several people (Cello included) that I have had a strong pro town play in this game (pardon the activity issues). Does this mean I am town? No. Stop saying how townie you are, this is not justification and does not absolve you of the guilty result on your head.

I literally cannot believe we are even having this discussion. We will not
ignore a guilty result. Cello is not confirmed townie. He's just (normally) played pro town.


As Xas himself has said (ready for the pro town wifom?) his lynch gives us FAR MORE information than any other lynch. It is the optimum play. There is no reason other than Xas screaming about how he has played like a townie and must be the miller for us not to lynch him.

J, only you here know your role for sure. You are SANE cop. I'll state this clearly, there is NO REASON for you to doubt your results, your role has been weakened and delayed thanks to the mechanics of the game. If Kat were to have put in millers and godfathers as well your role would be so weak as to be negligible. We have enough bridges to cross with EP that mechanics wise the evidence states that there is no need to further hinder town. If you do not help lynch Xas toDay you could easily the the game away. Nich is not the play toDay.

EP, you imply you DO NOT trust Xas. Why? There is a guilty result on him. Why are you not lynching him? You think I may be scum? Investigate me.


Gordito, you ignore the real possibility Cello is scum. His reasoning for being town earlier is null as TOWN roleblocked him. You voted Xas earlier, you know as well as I do that he's scum. Lynch him, another lynch is the wrong order - it does not give us the best chance if winning. Your logic just posted is incomplete.

 

[Swiss]

If we go through toDay without lynching someone who repeatedly says that they've played obv town AND WHO HAS A GUILTY ON THEM I am going to smash this keyboard in.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I'd say buy a new keyboard?

 

[Swiss]

You would not lynch someone because HE SAYS HE IS PRO TOWN and claims a role which is INCREDIBLY UNLIKELY to be in the game?

Think it through ffs, and realise Cello IS NOT confirmed townie. We don't even know all the roles giving EP are town ffs. We have no guarantee that they're town, just that information (or misinformation) goes to EP.

Does anyone out here have a brain? No?

 

[Swiss]

Why not post 'GG scum' again, Gord? Seemed to work well last time.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Cuz, ya know, we got max 3 Days, and 3 non confirmed townies? Do the math?

And scum WOULD say that, amirite?

 

[Swiss]

Would say what? You're claiming scum? You weren't scum in Community, in case you forgot.

Gord, you haven't explained why Xas is not the bets play for toDay. Why? Because you cannot. The order in which we lynch people matters greatly, and for the LAST TIME: CELLO IS NOT CLEARED. No-one is completely confirmed townie, we only know that they send EP information. Are you considering any of this? How we play this day matters very much.

 

[Swiss]

You are allowing a course of action that will take us into mylo with a GUILTY cop suspect, or Cello as the final scum who is for reasons unknown to any of us, cleared.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Cuz we might as well try to find the other scum... And I was referring to what you said. Lol.

 

[Dastrn]

This game is getting more and more clear every second. The only person with anything to gain from lynching us right now is scum. The only two people pushing our lynch is swiss and mayling. It's clear that it's not going to happen now, so sorry scum, but I think we've got you.

I can't see there being a miller AND godfather in this game, so I'm terribly concerned about cello anymore. I think we've got this worked out.

@EP - I know I'm town, and you think I'm town. You know you're town. I know you're town. Since you're more "known", let's go with your decision on which of Swiss or Mayling to lynch. I feel stronger about mayling, but it's like 95% certain vs 90% certain, you know? I'm ok with either lynch, and arguing about which of those two it needs to be won't help much. Let's go with our N0 Cop, since that's what you want.

unvote
vote: Swiss

 

[Swiss]

Xas, in games with millers, godfathers are almost ALWAYS in play. They balance each other out. It's the black to the others white.

Oh look, your point is rendered completely null.

I am offering to be investigated. Why? Because I know I'm town, and I know there aren't ANY ****ING MILLERS.

Pro town play Xas, lynch the guy who actually makes sense.

 

[Swiss]

Gordito, can you explain why we shouldn't lynch Xas and investigate me? No.

Lynch Xas. Clear me. Lynch the other one.

 

[Swiss]

omg I made a pro town move d1 with mai fake claim, i must be town. oh noe the cop says im scum, well ignore him cuz i made a pro town play kkk?

So if cop magically gets a guilty on me, we won't lynch me, yeah? I'm sure to be miller.

^ This entire day in a nutshell. There is no logic to Xas' plan.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

So then let us lynch Mayling, investigate you, get the clear, and lynch Xas? That any good?

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Investigation doesn't necessarily work. What if J is killed by mafia? What if I'm killed and J doesn't get his result? I don't think we can rely on that.

If either Swiss or Mayling are lynched today, and I die tonight, for the love of God Xastrn must be lynched tomorrow. Just throwing this clause in, in case I die tonight. Still haven't caught up on these last few posts but I will when I get the chance, just wanted to throw this warning out there just in case.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I mean to say that if either Swiss or mayling are lynched and flip town, THEN lynch Xastrn Tomorrow. Just one request from me if I'm dead and I can't make my case for that Tomorrow.

 

[Swiss]

Lynch Xas.

We have the guilty on XAS. You're trying to delay the lynch that GIVES US THE INFORMATION WE CAN USE THE NEXT DAY. He said it himself.

Gord, please, please..just do it this way, it clearly doesn't matter to you, and would root myself out if I were scum. There is NO REASON FOR YOU NOT TO. You are infuriating.

 

[Swiss]

No scum would kill J, EP.

It would beneficial to every single player here as scum to leave him alive.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

The plan was to lynch Xas if J was NK'd. Now that we HAVE no doc, there's nothing stopping J from being NK'd. It DOESN'T hurt anybody but EITHER Xas OR Swiss.

But of course, both have a reason to NK J.

A scum Swiss would want to try and look uber pro town by begging for an investigation. He NK's J, and his back up for not being scum is that he tried his best to lure the investigation.

A scum Xastrn would NK J to NOT let Swiss get the innocent result.

Case and point, if J dies toNight, Swiss or Xastrn are 100% scum.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Swiss, your scum is showing.

Unvote Vote Swiss

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Investigative Roles: The investigative mole was JoanBud. Don't worry about a SECOND mafia investigator, that would be a **** move on Kat's part. J, Nick, Gordito, and EdreesesPieces are all clear. Don't second guess yourselves.

@All: Reread Day 3 with the idea that Mayling is the last mafia and Swiss is a lyncher for Xastrn and see if it makes sense. I think it does.

@EP: I'm somewhat torn between who I want to lynch of Mayling and Swiss, though I'm leaning toward Swiss. Lynching either should give us scum, but if we can eliminate the Mafia Night Kill, then that would theoretically clear Xastrn (he or a theoretical 3rd scum mate could forgo it to give the illusion of that situation/to frame Xastrn, but then J could just investigate everyone and clear everyone else. If a kill happened then (if May is the Godfather), we'd lynch Xastrn). However, if Swiss is a Lyncher, then his target could be Mayling, as doubtful as that is.

Mayling's agenda appears group oriented, whereas Swiss is Evil Survivor scummy. Basically, Swiss hasn't really cared about the lynch with one exception: Xastrn. And he backed off from that when Mayling "tried" to stop his blitzkreig (irony), and when I unvoted and mentioned Lynchers.

Also, even though Kat might have added that section about "alignment exclusive" abilities in response to questions about the Night Kill, why did he bother to word it the way that he did? Why not, "Townies that possess mafia have no control over the Night Kill"? I think it was to account for Lyncher.

Overall, a Mayling lynch is higher overall risk/reward. Swiss is the safer route, so let's do that.

@Swiss: I told you if you ever turned against Xastrn, then I'd consider you a lyncher.

Xas goes toDay, any play other than that would be the wrong way round. Cop gets clear on Cello, lynch Mayling. Or vice-versa, whichever he chooses.

Why are you relying on a cop investigation when there is no longer a protective role for the cop? That's idiotic. If J isn't scum and there is a mafia member alive, he's dead.

I intended to be on earlier to see this [the N0 cop claim] through better but as it turns out people wagoned him anyway.

What stopped you? If you had planned to do this for reactions, you would have been present. If it were spur of the moment, on the other hand, you might have accomplished your goal of lynching Xastrn.

K. Figured you would but you didn't play it how I expected. Xas made a case against me, understandable, if neeeewbie, but he was willing to die first, before me. Town. Or very clever. So town. Probably.

Here Swiss was keeping his options open. Probably so he could later say, "Well, it must be Xastrn". Oh, wait. He did say that.

Uhmm how do I explain this? Well I've never played cop on a forum, so I don't know how I would approach it.

This is a lie. Mayling was the Seer in Newbie 3. Plus, I think she's been a seer on some AllIsBrawl mafia games. The Seer part is exceptionally notable since IN HER VERY NEXT POST she references Newbie 3, saying that I was an active scum in it.

Mayling knew that Xastrn wasn't scum because she was scum. This would be true whether Mayling was scum with Swiss or if Swiss were an independent lyncher. She didn't really try to stop his lynch, remember? But, she DID try to put herself in such a position that it LOOKED like she tried to stop it:

what's with this swiss claiming n0 cop? wtf? there was no n0?

vote nicholas

She even voted for Nick instead for his support of me. How was that REALLY going to stop a guilty-cop-claim?

Also, do you remember when Mayling said she'd put stuff in layman's terms because it was easiest to assume new players knew nothing? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Why was she willing to do that for EXPLAINING what N0 meant, but NOT for why it was a BAD IDEA to believe an N0 Cop claim so easily? She was perfectly willing to let that lynch go through (The fact that JoanBud was involved is immaterial and missing relevance)

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Swiss, you're not winning this...

 

[Cello_Marl]

Swiss is baiting an investigation because he's indy, not mafia.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

So then we lynch Xastrn on D5, if there is one. We can lynch Swiss toMorrow, and there's no reason why we SHOULDN'T lynch Mayling toDay.

 

[#HBC | J]

I am about 100% sure I am dieing tonight. It would be absolutely dumb if they did not. Gordito, whoever I do not investigate follow them.

If I investigate Mayling, watch Swiss. Vice-versa. Also same if we replace Swiss with Xastrn. I am gonna be investigating you Mayling toNight just to let you know if you do not get lynched today.

Atm it seems Mayling's fate is going to be held tomorrow. toDay it is between Swiss or Xastrn.

Unvote (just btw since it really isn't going anywhere.)

gah gimme some time to re-read and decide finally who I vote. We need to decide who will hammer. I prefer it be of who we know 100% sure are town. IMO that's Edresse, Myself, and Gordito. (you can say Nich but I still have my doubts.)

 

[Swiss]

Cello, you know sometimes you think you'll be online, then aren't? Yeah. Wanna make a larger null tell?

So if I'm a lyncher, don't let me hammer. Lynch Xas.

Cello I know your BS antagonistic cases when I see them. Apart from the fact you've said what I did early on was pro town (whaiii the flip?).

Srsly, J is the weakest least active player here by a mile, and no-one seems to be paying ANY ATTENTION to his results as a result of this and Cello's BS miller godfather claims. Who would waste a NK on him when they could eliminate a strong pretty much confirmed townie?

 

[#HBC | J]

omg way ninja'd one sec lemme re-read from cello's vote

 

[Swiss]

Cello I am not indie. I'm also smart enough to know not to pressure a Xas lynch if that's what I need. I could have got it later (I don't know who scum are, ya see?).

Nice wifom Swiss, but it's true. I'm not stupid enough to get myself lynched.

 

[Kataefi]

@All: let me know if I've missed any votecounts.

Vote Count

[3] Swiss: EdreesesPieces / Xastrn / Cello_Marl
[2] Xastrn: Mayling / Swiss
[2] Mayling: Nicholas1024 / GorditoBoy69

[0] EdreesesPieces
[0] GorditoBoy69
[0] J
[0] Cello_Marl
[0] Nicholas1024

[1] Not Voting: J

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline set for Friday, October 8th, Noon GMT.