[m-1, 14, 28] avril lavigne mafia - over

[M.K]

while we wait id just like to say jesus that statement makes me really uncomfortable. what do you mean start playing towards your win condition as if you haven't been doing so already? why in the world would you bring up the term "win condition" at this point as well? just a really, really awkward wording here you got going on

@MetaKirby: tell me in great detail why you think Chibo is scum

More like "I'm not going to dwell on how horrible I feel after vehemently defending frozen just for him to turn up scum" sort of moving on....

Why in great detail I think Chibo is scum?
Well, when we played AIMMafia the other day, he continued until the end to defend me (his scum lover) without conceding. Well, possibly because that would've instant-lost for us if I died, but I feel that same sort of "I'm not giving up" mentality in this game.
Also we probably know that either 1 or both scum were on the Frozen wagon. But Chibo wasn't, and I don't think he had enough....how can I say this...grip on the game to be able to adequately lynch his own scum partner His willingness to lynch me as well sends red flags.
Also, the fact that he claimed Jailer (which he may as well BE) when we've already got so many other roles, and the fact that you claim that you didn't get a PM saying you were jailed (which i assume is normal or something?) makes me think he unfortunately got placed into the role of "I've done nothing scum" and has tried all this time to make up for it.

 

[CT Chia]

Why in great detail I think Chibo is scum?
Well, when we played AIMMafia the other day, he continued until the end to defend me (his scum lover) without conceding. Well, possibly because that would've instant-lost for us if I died, but I feel that same sort of "I'm not giving up" mentality in this game.
Also we probably know that either 1 or both scum were on the Frozen wagon. But Chibo wasn't, and I don't think he had enough....how can I say this...grip on the game to be able to adequately lynch his own scum partner His willingness to lynch me as well sends red flags.
Also, the fact that he claimed Jailer (which he may as well BE) when we've already got so many other roles, and the fact that you claim that you didn't get a PM saying you were jailed (which i assume is normal or something?) makes me think he unfortunately got placed into the role of "I've done nothing scum" and has tried all this time to make up for it.

You're comparing a play in AIM Mafia to forum based Mafia. To further show how the two situations are 100% different, you said it yourself - it was lovers mafia and we were scum partners. You were under fire and not playing well and I had to do my best to defend you because if you were lynched we would both die and lose.

I explained my logic behind not wanting to lynch Frozen. People didn't think his role and my role could exist together in this game (Nurse and Jailer), so if I proved my role last night, that decreased the likliness of Frozen being a nurse (I didn't see a problem with both roles but no one else thought so). However now with his flip info, perhaps everyone is right in that both the jailer and nurse can't both exist. And since he isn't a nurse...

The main confliction yesterday was the existance of a nurse and a jailer. Guess what, now we know there's no nurse. What problem is there now with so many roles?

I haven't heard of anything like receiving a pm when something like that happens.

 

[Xivii]

Should have jailed Nich dude. Total waste. *sigh*

 

[vanderzant]

Oh wow I was busy doing maths and missed this >.<. Anyway, hurray at Frozen flipping scum.

FOS: Chibo MK

I think these two are the best plays for toDay.

Don't like MK's early vote. It's probably MYLO again today, excluding the ever-possible recruiter type roles. Don't like the "ok guys I'm here for real now!" attitude. @MK if you think scum was on the wagon, who/why? etc. You were pretty convinced that Omni was scum yesterDay, what do you think now?

Mac was inactive, Chibo was pretty messy yesterDay. I don't have all that much to say to him really. @Chibo, who do you think is scum? What do you think of MK.

I'm fine with mass claiming and all. I really want to hear from this tracker/watcher, to give some results. And if he doesn't exist I want to lynch Nich.

@Omni/Zensei: who are you both more confident in lynching?

 

[M.K]

Mac was inactive, Chibo was pretty messy yesterDay. I don't have all that much to say to him really. @Chibo, who do you think is scum? What do you think of MK.

Well, as you probably know, my reads of the game are severely flipped now that the person I was confident was town turned up scum.
My read on Omni went from "almost positive scum" to like...a very very slim of a chance of being scum. Part of me wants to think Omni could've possibly bussed his own scum partner, but NOT at this point in the game, the risk is not greater than the reward. So, I don't think he's got a good chance of being scum. I know this may seem like a sudden flip from scum-->town, but with frozen's flip, I've been forced to reevaluate.

 

[Omni]

Vote Count 12

Kirby-Bot (5) - MacMan, FrozenFlame, MarshEE, Chacotaco, vanderzant
Frozenflame (3) - Kirbyoshi, Overswarm, Omni
Omni (1) - Nicholas1024
Not Voting (4) - ZenSei, Tom, Meta-Kirby

With 12 Alive, It Takes A Vote Of 7 To Lynch!

DeadLine Is ThursDay July 22nd 11:59:59 PM EST.

Argh, only a day until deadline, and still no wagon on a lynch candidate I'd support. Since nobody's doing anything about my Omni vote...

Unvote, Vote: zensei

Maybe we can get some pressure there.

@Overswarm
Whatever. Get in line. I still don't think he's [Kirbyoshi] scum (not that my opinion matters now)

I think Nicholas needs to die immediately.

I think Chibo/MK are distancing themselves. I want them both dead, but I can't decide who I want dead over the other. They've both been crazy scummy. I wouldn't be surprised if they were the remaining scum.

 

[Omni]

Chibo. I told you I was a PR; you said you jailed me.

So why was I able to accomplish my task lastNight?

 

[#HBC | marshy]

rip bronike

go marshy!

 

[Nicholas1024]

Um... why am I the play?

Seriously, if I was scum I'd have just forced the no-lynch last night, killed a supporter of the Frozen wagon, and won in LYLO. Hammering frozen yesterday would have been a really dumb thing to do from a scum standpoint.

Anyway, I'm fine with the tracker/watcher claiming now. Go for it.

I suspect that MK and Chibo are the last two scum, but there's no need to rush things.

 

[Omni]

WIFOM.

What makes you think you'd live pass LYLO after we all see that you forced a lylo? Hammering Frozen is what we would call a bus; something you or Chibo may have done or MK was too afraid to do.

I explained why you're the play. You're playing a horrible town game. You haven't added anything of merit. Did you even say anything useful yesterDay? I don't really think you're actively looking for scum.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Come on Omni, that argument has more holes than the Rams O-line.

Let me explain to you why scum-me NEVER would have hammered Frozen. First off, I could have forced LYLO simply by NOT POSTING. Then suspicion would have fallen mainly on Chibo and Meta-kirby, both of whom were posting very near deadline and yet never voted Frozen. I've been going after both Chibo and Meta-kirby making them both very appealing targets for a bus/mislynch (depending on their alignments). Therefore, why on earth would scum-me have hammered Frozen?

Yes, my D3 game was inactive and rather poor, but you can't say that about my D1 and D2. Yes, I was wrong about Frozen and probably wrong about Zensei, but I was right about Kirbyoshi, and there's a very good chance I'm right about Meta-kirby. One bout of inactivity does not automatically make me scum, Omni. Marshy never did anything at all D3, and yet you never pointed the finger at him. (And we know he's town.)

 

[Omni]

I'll leave the wifom argument alone.

You were wrong about Frozen and Zensei and you pegged me as scum under weak meta. Also, your constant reiteration of "I don't think Kirbyoshi is scum" after he was lynched urked me a lot. Easy to pull the "told'ya so" card. It wasn's just your inactivity; it was your completely lack of urgency. Even when you did chime in you didn't seem too interested in really finding scum.

Marshy was inactive D3, but he was very much useful and helpful Day 1 and 2. I did point a finger at MarshEE and prodded him only to find out he was simply extremely busy. He was also a pretty clean cop clear.

Tell me why you shouldn't die, Nich. How have you been useful?

 

[Nicholas1024]

You're leaving the wifom stuff alone because you know you'll lose it, but okay, fine. If you want a quick and easy summary of my game...

I've attacked you, Zensei, MK and Chibo (You and zensei D1 and D2, MK and Chibo more D2 and D3)
I've defended Kirbyoshi before his lynch and Frozen up until late D3. (Completely right on one, completely wrong on the other...)

So as you can see, I've made plenty of connections and done plenty of stuff. Just check the postcounts. I'm at 100 (including this post), which is good for 4/6th among still alive players (and if we count marshy and Frozen, who only recently died, it would be 4/8th). So, I haven't been super-lurking through the entire game.

Also, why are you so sure that I'm scum? It's like you made up your mind during the night and refuse to consider the facts.

 

[CT Chia]

Chibo. I told you I was a PR; you said you jailed me.

So why was I able to accomplish my task lastNight?

All I know is that I jailed you. Either something is awkward with the NAR, my jail somehow didn't work on you, or you're bluffing idk.

I don't know how it could possibly not work unless you have a trait or something that says your ability can not be stopped, so as much as I don't want to believe it right now, you're bluffing.

 

[Omni]

You're leaving the wifom stuff alone because you know you'll lose it, but okay, fine. If you want a quick and easy summary of my game...

I've attacked you, Zensei, MK and Chibo (You and zensei D1 and D2, MK and Chibo more D2 and D3)
I've defended Kirbyoshi before his lynch and Frozen up until late D3. (Completely right on one, completely wrong on the other...)

So as you can see, I've made plenty of connections and done plenty of stuff. Just check the postcounts. I'm at 100 (including this post), which is good for 4/6th among still alive players (and if we count marshy and Frozen, who only recently died, it would be 4/8th). So, I haven't been super-lurking through the entire game.

Also, why are you so sure that I'm scum? It's like you made up your mind during the night and refuse to consider the facts.

You can't argue wifom. That's why it's called WIFOM.

Your content hasn't been good.

Also, I know that you're probably scum because I think Vander/Zensei isn't scum. Which leaves you, Chibo, and MK. Plus your content has been horrible. You don't seem pro-town at all. You don't seem to be scumhunting. I haven't liked your play. And your gravedigger role is convenient.

And yeah, I made up my mind that you'd be a good pick to die toDay after Frozen flipped scum. Why do you sound surprised that these deductions couldn't have been made during Night?

All I know is that I jailed you. Either something is awkward with the NAR, my jail somehow didn't work on you, or you're bluffing idk.

I don't know how it could possibly not work unless you have a trait or something that says your ability can not be stopped, so as much as I don't want to believe it right now, you're bluffing.

I bluffed. Was just curious as to your response.

I like you living one more Day. Maybe lynching MK and having you jail Nich (like the original plan) would be nice. What do you think?

 

[CT Chia]

I would like to hear everyone elses thoughts on it first, but I wouldn't mind it either way, killing mk and jailing nich or killing nich and jailing mk.

 

[Nicholas1024]

You can't argue wifom. That's why it's called WIFOM.

Oh yes you can. That was a MAJOR point in the endgame of Final fantasy 7 mafia. Scum just dismissed Ronike's argument against Frozen as WIFOM, and played that to a win.

Your content hasn't been good.

Nice convenient blanket statement.

Also, I know that you're probably scum because I think Vander/Zensei isn't scum. Which leaves you, Chibo, and MK. Plus your content has been horrible. You don't seem pro-town at all. You don't seem to be scumhunting. I haven't liked your play. And your gravedigger role is convenient.

Yawn. I admit my D3 content was bad, but I defy you to prove the same about my D1-D2 content. I've gone over before why the gravedigger stuff is an idiotic scum safeclaim (a position that YOUVE SUPPORTED!) What makes me a better chance to flip scum than Chibo and MK?

And yeah, I made up my mind that you'd be a good pick to die toDay after Frozen flipped scum. Why do you sound surprised that these deductions couldn't have been made during Night?

Obviously, you failed to consider that if I was scum, bussing Frozen-scum like that would be fail. It would have been one of the least convincing plays EVER, as I'd been his #1 defender for most of the game.

Also, right back at you with the bussing stuff. How do I know that YOU and Frozen didn't decide to play this bus from the start? You've been at each other all game, regardless of what other people have said. Obviously MK and Chibo have much better chances of being scum, but you see my point. Besides, I'm having a hard time believing Omni-town to be this dense.

 

[Omni]

you seem to be flailing. especially if you're throwing out the suggestion that i've been bus'ing Frozen from the start.

you're starting to sound like Frozen when i was in his *** for different reasons.

do you mind if chibo jails you tonight and we lynch MK?

 

[Omni]

if i remember correctly, you did NOT want to be jailed yesterDay

 

[Nicholas1024]

if i remember correctly, you did NOT want to be jailed yesterDay

Hm? I didn't think it was a foolproof idea, but I wasn't especially against it.

But yeah, I'm okay with Chibo jailing me and MK getting lynched today.

Also, I'm hardly flailing. I will admit that I'm somewhat worried, because one wrong townie could very well be the game-loser here. I think you see my point as regards the bussing accusations though: It's very easy to throw them out without any substance whatsoever behind them. Unless you can give good reasoning as to why scum-me wouldn't have forced a no-lynch, you don't have a case there.

 

[Omni]

you could be an indy

 

[Nicholas1024]

you could be an indy

If I was an indy, I'd joint with mafia to win the game (as I'm obviously not a SK), don't be stupid.

 

[Omni]

my point is that i find you least likely to be town over vander/zensei.

i'm not incredibly worried about my reads being too off since they've been on point this entire game. im not comfortable at all with you being alive. you haven't brought much to the plate. you only become active when someone's on your tail or you're on a meta hunch. id be happy if u died and sad if you were still alive.

if mk flips scum and chibo dies who would you want to lynch

 

[Nicholas1024]

if mk flips scum and chibo dies who would you want to lynch

No idea. I'm comfortable with Zensei at this point, so it'd be a toss-up between you and Vand.

And if I'm right, your argument against me has two points, right?

1) A supposed bus of frozen
2) That I haven't done much.

I think I've debunked them pretty thoroughly. 1 because me-scum forcing a no-lynch would have given scum a much higher chance of winning (which means that I must be town), and 2 you can see is false just by reading back through D1 and D2. Do you have any other arguments against me?

 

[Omni]

the frozen bus was a possibility; not a point. it was given towards you and Chibo.

and i've made several more points

- lack of scumhunting
- liking frozen
- disliking me
- idleness Day 3
- convenient gravedigger role
- not being very useful at all
- awkward reiteration of Kirbyoshi not being scum after the lynch

basically i dont have anything positive to say about your play. especially if you're town. also, your "1.)" point is still wifom and useless. if you're indy you don't know Frozen's alignment

 

[Nicholas1024]

Maybe, but if I was indy, I still would have known that yesterday was 1 indy + 3 scum vs 4 town which means I could have jointed with the mafia for a win. In fact, if I was indy, I could still do the same right now, as in that hypothetical situation it would be 1 indy + 2 scum vs 3 town. Therefore, I AM NOT INDY!

 

[Omni]

huh

what makes you think there is a 3 man scum team

 

[Nicholas1024]

huh

what makes you think there is a 3 man scum team

Isn't that the assumption we've been working with for the past several days now? I mean, 2 mafia in a game this size is very unbalanced, and obviously there aren't more else we'd have lost already.

 

[Omni]

it's been a possibility but it's not confirmed. do you recall Kirbyoshi's town patriot role hinting to a recruiter/yak role?

 

[Nicholas1024]

it's been a possibility but it's not confirmed. do you recall Kirbyoshi's town patriot role hinting to a recruiter/yak role?

True, but the most likely scenarios are 2 mafia, one of which is a one shot recruiter, or 3 mafia, one of which is a yak. Either way, an indy could joint with them at this stage of the game. (Unless there's a recruiter and he hasn't recruited yet, but what are the odds of that? Pretty low IMO.)

 

[Omni]

i'm not here to discuss odds or possible roles or indys that may or may not be able to joint win with mafia. none of it can be confirmed. the fact that you're trying to confirm your alignment as not indy or not scum is laughable.

i've been playing the entire game solely off who i think should live and who i think should die based on usefulness and scumminess.

what part of "i dont like your play" haven't you got?

regardless, we've had our tit for tat long enough. you need to die sooner rather than later imo unless you can convince me otherwise. for now, however, i am content with prolonging your death to see another Night with mk dying and night action

and i want to hear from vander/zensei when they get online

 

[Nicholas1024]

Shouldn't all town try to confirm that they aren't scum/indy? It would seem to me that that would be a good thing.

 

[Omni]

you can't confirm it. you can try to argue it, but in a open setup where scum has safe claims out the *** (Mayling, Nurse? wow name/role claims that make sense) and a possible recruiter/yak in the mix nothing is comfirmable.

i havent overlooked that zensei could be gf.
i havent overlooked that vander could have picked up on Tom/OS's breadcrubs on zensei for this reason.

if we wanted to theorize about what if, what could, and what might then everyone here is still liable to be scum and town.

so you can't confirm squat. we don't want to meta xiivi. therefore im focusing on what is right in front of me and that's a person's play and their direct interactions in-game.

 

[Omni]

doing a bit of rereading

I'm more inclined to believe Omni is scum over Frozen and my vote isn't changing. Zensei how is It possible that you have no opinion of your own the entire game? ALL you do is disguise your actions with a little bit of nonsensical jibberjabber before copypasta'ing Omni's actions.

If it weren't for the distinct possibility of you being copped and almost cleared, I'd be more willing to lynch you.

Vanderzant and Nich, you two are nearly useless! Omni, Vand, and Nich scum team...? Its disgusting how you two are simply drifting through the game.

Chibo, there really is support for an Omni lynch. I'm coming home but we can ALL agree that an Omni lynch would give us SO much information to work with....so why is everyone here being so **** passive? Jeeez...

o rly...

Alright so Unvote: Omni and Vote: Zensei. Here's why:

*blah blah blah blah*

Ok so Nich is looking scummier and scummier but he's nowhere to be found in your stance in #890? [interesting]

*blah blah blah*

why zensei is not the play and +1 to nich.

Zensei is playing very similarly to how he played in PikMafia, the "agreeable quiet guy" type of play.
He was scum there.

mk's post slightly after frozen's. mk has a tendancy of not only claiming frozen as town but supporting his lynch candidates (me and zensei).

hummity hum.

i feel like today is a no brainer and i think everyone will be down for MK dying. we're still in mylo so it is a gamble but i think its a good one.

 

[CT Chia]

@mod: request votecount and updated op plz

will decide after i at least hear everyone today

 

[Xivii]

When's the deadline? I wont be able to be on as much as I'd like and I want to review a bit, so please don't end the day early. MK is most likely the play today.
Need a mass claim. I'd like Vander > Omni > Me. Everyone fine with that?

M-K what did you mean you need to start playing by your win condition lol?

Nich you bussing Frozen is a definite possibilty. Your argument against it was that if you were scum, you could have not posted, but I recal you making another post before your vote post, so not voting would have looked suspicios.

 

[Xivii]

NICH: What do you speculate about the way this game is set up? We've had no NK N1 and a confirmed patriot. A kill N2 with confirmed Cop. A claimed gravedigger, nurse, and jailer. What do you make of it?

My best guess as to the patriot and the NK would be 2 scum, one of which is a recruiter. Not buying the Jailkeeper + nurse combo.

Maybe, but if I was indy, I still would have known that yesterday was 1 indy + 3 scum vs 4 town which means I could have jointed with the mafia for a win. In fact, if I was indy, I could still do the same right now, as in that hypothetical situation it would be 1 indy + 2 scum vs 3 town. Therefore, I AM NOT INDY!

Interesting.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Yes, but if I was scum I wouldn't have made either post. Besides, the first post was non-comittal. Even after that scum-me could have just said "I don't think frozen's scum, and a no-lynch won't hurt us", and let the day go by without a lynch. Sure, it'd have looked a little more suspicious, but it would have been a lot better than the alternative (if I was scum).

 

[M.K]

Killing me and not killing someone like Nich today is a very, very bad idea.
Omni, you say that you're willing to just have another lynch/night kill, but you fail to mention that we may not even HAVE that opportunity depending on the numbers here. You want to see my flip? I've already TOLD you what I would flip. If it weren't for how horrendous my reads are this game, I would hold much more credibility, but I can tell you, when I flip town, it's just going to be one of those things where you say to yourself "Holy **** he really sucks at this game" because my reads were so terrible.

Likewise, I'm uncomfortable with the fact that Nich is still willing to lynch somebody like Zensei, who is essentially a cleared townie.

 

[Xivii]

M-K can you answer my question.