[m-1, 14, 28] avril lavigne mafia - over

[M.K]

actually, so you dont think im just being mean

@MK: expand on why you think frozen should be lynched. in terms of inactivity macman takes the cake yet you'd rather jump on a Frozen wagon? why not macman if you're only taking into account inactivity? outside of his activity you think he's town? why?

Frozenflame plays aggressive town, and gets even more defensive AS town. As scum, he sits back and plays the "talk to me later" game. Day 1 I didn't think he was town, and based on his POSTS, I don't think he's scum. His activity needs to get better though, ALOT better.
I don't care for Macman's activity, but I can't really see anything scummy in his one-liners, except the fact that they are one liners. But hey, it's just that elitist crap that's keeping him alive.

This game is just filled to the brim with big personalities that clash with each other. It'll come down to the big names in this game. Omni, if you're scum, you're running this game pretty hard right now, it's clear you are most prominent, are you worried that your activity levels will come into question? Surely you weren't this gungho in Code Geass, and you were town there, so what causes this "need" to be in charge of things? Do you think your activity is keeping you alive?

To everyone saying "everyone needs to die", just deflate your heads before they pop. It's hard to play the game when you expect half of the cast will simply disregard your opinion, especially when you've placed yourselves on such a high pedestal in comparison. The game has stalemated because the big personalities are simply telling everyone else to GTFO and ending there. It's very intimidating, but the bark is worse than the bite.

Unvote

 

[Tom]

hmmmmm

i dunno

 

[M.K]

Well gee, refreshing.

 

[Omni]

Frozenflame plays aggressive town, and gets even more defensive AS town. As scum, he sits back and plays the "talk to me later" game. Day 1 I didn't think he was town, and based on his POSTS, I don't think he's scum. His activity needs to get better though, ALOT better.

is this based on one game you've played with frozen when he was town? are you pulling a nich?

I don't care for Macman's activity, but I can't really see anything scummy in his one-liners, except the fact that they are one liners. But hey, it's just that elitist crap that's keeping him alive.

so we have frozen who u think makes town posts but is inactive.
and we have macman who you have a neutral read on in regards to posts and is inactive.
but ur cool with frozen over mac?

This game is just filled to the brim with big personalities that clash with each other. It'll come down to the big names in this game. Omni, if you're scum, you're running this game pretty hard right now, it's clear you are most prominent, are you worried that your activity levels will come into question? Surely you weren't this gungho in Code Geass, and you were town there, so what causes this "need" to be in charge of things? Do you think your activity is keeping you alive?

what do you mean it'll come down to the big names? you realize the bigger your name is the higher you are on scum's "let's kill this guy" list, right? most (smart) scum wack off the smarties and leave the dummies.

if i'm scum then yes i am running the game. my existence is prominent. no i am not worried that my activity level will... come into question? what? anyway, i have access to my iPhone at work and i have my laptop during the evening so im mafia-ready during the weekdays. and no i wasnt this gungho in Code Geass because i came in 3/4's of the game barely having a grasp of what was going on.

what's keeping me alive is my overall usefulness and easy readibility. im not treading neutral grounds with safe stances and vague responses. it's clear that my existence is an asset to town and a liability to scum since i encourage people to put pep in their step in regards to activity and content.

To everyone saying "everyone needs to die", just deflate your heads before they pop. It's hard to play the game when you expect half of the cast will simply disregard your opinion, especially when you've placed yourselves on such a high pedestal in comparison. The game has stalemated because the big personalities are simply telling everyone else to GTFO and ending there. It's very intimidating, but the bark is worse than the bite.

im the one saying everyone needs to die. it means that there are a lot of people who with very sketchy reads. borderline scum but not strong enough to make a case off. then there are a few reads of people who seem more dumb rather than scum. kirbyoshi/clowbot was an example of that.

no one is disregarding your opinion. you really have a superiority complex. if you were being disregarded then no one would respond to you. the game isn't stalemating because of pig personalities, wtf. you're really the only person who thinks that people are just being bullies.

it's called aggressive-assertive play. welcome to mafia.

Unvote

why

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

So im probably the worst at time management ever.

If i dont complete my to do list before 4 PM tomorrow est then lynch me because i feel like a total *******.

not that i dont plan on doing it but im mostly yelling at myself here

 

[Omni]

tom i'll keep holding hands with you but if toMorrow you're the same way then this relationship is over

but probably not

but yea i kinda understand how this game is difficult in regards to reads. hopefully two Nights and possibly some pr results will get your brain circulating

 

[Omni]

sorry to hear that @ frozen *no sarcasm, honestly*

are you scum? can you claim now and/or tell us anything new

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Not scum and im not claiming unless you guys still think im the play after i make my massive to do list post or posts or if i continue to fail and do have it ready before work tomorrow.

I have plenty to say that should really help to revitalize this game ive just been a failboat and havent properly sat down, put it together and posted it

 

[Tom]

make your post instead of claiming

but please do it because i could use some help scumhunting and you could use some "not about to die"

 

[M.K]

is this based on one game you've played with frozen when he was town? are you pulling a nich?

Scum Wars, Code Geass, PokeMafia.....nah, I know my frozen.
^scum...........^town............^town (recruited? can't remember, but I do remember a playstyle shift)

so we have frozen who u think makes town posts but is inactive.
and we have macman who you have a neutral read on in regards to posts and is inactive.
but ur cool with frozen over mac?

Nope see below @ the unvote .I'm not good with his lynch, we have enough time to make a BETTER decision.

what do you mean it'll come down to the big names? you realize the bigger your name is the higher you are on scum's "let's kill this guy" list, right? most (smart) scum wack off the smarties and leave the dummies.

Untrue, in my recently-ended PikMafia game, Chuckie was clearly, CLEARLY the most active in the entire game, and the most powerful player that town had. However, Zensei admitted end-game that he was scared a protector was protecting him, so he never targetted him, simply the not-so-active people (Chaco, Tandora). In my experience, if you're as prominent as you, you gain a valuable reputation. However, this game, it's not that at all, it's just a bullying sensation, a "we don't need you, gtfo" when somebody tries to express an opinion.
Admitting I'm definitely not the best player, or even an averagely good player, I feel pressured or intimidated to post. Not because it will be scrutinized carefully, but because it won't be taken seriously.
Marshy won in scum wars because he COMMANDED his followers like rats, same with ChibiCat in Smash Bros.. I don't want that to happen now, but then I feel like if I try to speak out against them, it's an automatic target on my back. SHOULD I feel like this, is it right? Who's to say, but there are some definite risks.

if i'm scum then yes i am running the game. my existence is prominent. no i am not worried that my activity level will... come into question? what? anyway, i have access to my iPhone at work and i have my laptop during the evening so im mafia-ready during the weekdays. and no i wasnt this gungho in Code Geass because i came in 3/4's of the game barely having a grasp of what was going on.

Well, let's just say we hit town toDay again. So that's 4 town by the start of Day 3 dead, and no scum. At that point in the game, assuming we went with your first prime target (since you are clearly most active and easy for less vocal members to follow), I would automatically feel suspicious of you, coming off a personal standpoint. You hit too many wrong targets for me to feel safe with you again. Do you fear this moment?

what's keeping me alive is my overall usefulness and easy readibility. im not treading neutral grounds with safe stances and vague responses. it's clear that my existence is an asset to town and a liability to scum since i encourage people to put pep in their step in regards to activity and content.

I would agree, but I think you might confuse "pep in their step" with "dent in their self-confidence". Clearly there is a coalition of people here that would like everybody else dead, and honestly, I have NO problem with calling people out for their flaws, but simply saying "You can die" is telling the person NOTHING about their play style to fix, and really disheartening the players. It's a good thing I'm not entirely phased by comments like that, but it's not exactly....helpful, or in fact, it doesn't really put a "pep in my step" as much as it just bums me out that people think I'm useless trash.

im the one saying everyone needs to die. it means that there are a lot of people who with very sketchy reads. borderline scum but not strong enough to make a case off. then there are a few reads of people who seem more dumb rather than scum. kirbyoshi/clowbot was an example of that.

So you've got a bunch of slight scum reads. However, you KNOW there are only a certain amount of scum in the game, so why not go through the game and pick out the SCUMMIEST, instead of saying all of them can die? To the people who are "slight scum, not scummiest", suggest ways to better performance. I'm trying to be more vocal now, because people think I can just coast along, but that's a bull**** way to play.

no one is disregarding your opinion. you really have a superiority complex. if you were being disregarded then no one would respond to you. the game isn't stalemating because of pig personalities, wtf. you're really the only person who thinks that people are just being bullies.

it's called aggressive-assertive play. welcome to mafia.



why

Trust me, I don't have a superiority complex. In fact, I FEEL inferior to people like you, Tom, and Marshy, even Macman to an extent, which inherently intimidates me. I'll admit I'm not a strong enough personality to just claim so many people in the game can die, nor do I feel I can coast by (Macman) with inactivity and one-liners. I'm attempting to combat this, but this in no way phases my thinking, but I can't speak for other players.
After Code Geass mafia, my first win, I got some advice that I should be more aggressive, that anything said within a game is simply game talk, and never to take it to heart. I'm trying to stay with that mindset.

 

[Omni]

Scum Wars, Code Geass, PokeMafia.....nah, I know my frozen.
^scum...........^town............^town (recruited? can't remember, but I do remember a playstyle shift)

ok.

Nope see below @ the unvote .I'm not good with his lynch, we have enough time to make a BETTER decision.

then why were you willing to have him lynched by putting him at L-1?

Untrue, in my recently-ended PikMafia game, Chuckie was clearly, CLEARLY the most active in the entire game, and the most powerful player that town had. However, Zensei admitted end-game that he was scared a protector was protecting him, so he never targetted him, simply the not-so-active people (Chaco, Tandora).

yes, that's the plus side. being good/useful makes you open to a doc target as well.

In my experience, if you're as prominent as you, you gain a valuable reputation. However, this game, it's not that at all, it's just a bullying sensation, a "we don't need you, gtfo" when somebody tries to express an opinion.

again, you're the only one feeling this bully sensation. if you play the game well, make good/logical reads, and say correct things then people listen. if you do the opposite like your AtE earlier then you lose credibility. and no one is saying, "we don't need you, gtfo".

i hope Tom can clarify this for you. i think you have an issue with conflict.

Admitting I'm definitely not the best player, or even an averagely good player, I feel pressured or intimidated to post. Not because it will be scrutinized carefully, but because it won't be taken seriously.

read above. if you say good things, make logical/good reads, and say correct things then people will listen. im still not too familiar with Vander but i like what he says regarding this game. btw, you're AtE is showing all over this post. you realize we go from me putting some pressure on your vote on Frozen to you making this kind of post again?

Marshy won in scum wars because he COMMANDED his followers like rats, same with ChibiCat in Smash Bros.. I don't want that to happen now, but then I feel like if I try to speak out against them, it's an automatic target on my back. SHOULD I feel like this, is it right? Who's to say, but there are some definite risks.

uh, i guess i'm doing a bit of commanding but idk i'd rather call it outspoken. i'm outspoken about my stances, my views, if i sniff scum, etc. that's all. i think the only reason why people take what i have to say into consideration is because they're comfortable with me and very uncomfortable with the rest of the cast.

and why would you try to speak out against me? do you think i am incorrect in my judgment? if so, then explain why you think my line of reasoning is flawed. if it is logical then people may be convinced. some may not.

im taking risks as well by being outspoken. scum doesnt want loud, observant townies keeping players in check, calling out inactives/coasters, etc. the more i say the more scum can attempt to twist or turn my words into a bad light.


break

 

[vanderzant]

Vand's actions are just.... safe. Too safe. It's like he was staying as far away from suspicion as possible by not necessarily being active, but not being inactive either... just in the middle and kinda staying out of the limelight. I'd like vand to contribute more.

I'm a middle of the road kind of guy.

@MK: Uh... Did you read my #681?

FOS: MK

For skimming.

 

[Omni]

Well, let's just say we hit town toDay again. So that's 4 town by the start of Day 3 dead, and no scum. At that point in the game, assuming we went with your first prime target (since you are clearly most active and easy for less vocal members to follow), I would automatically feel suspicious of you, coming off a personal standpoint. You hit too many wrong targets for me to feel safe with you again. Do you fear this moment?

huh? i think i said yesterDay that we should not lynch kirbyoshi.

i don't "fear" anything because i'm not scum. you can't catch me in a lie because i'm telling the truth. and i openly say how i feel towards a person's play without hesitation. ahh, the true purr of a true tom cat *****.

I would agree, but I think you might confuse "pep in their step" with "dent in their self-confidence". Clearly there is a coalition of people here that would like everybody else dead, and honestly, I have NO problem with calling people out for their flaws, but simply saying "You can die" is telling the person NOTHING about their play style to fix, and really disheartening the players. It's a good thing I'm not entirely phased by comments like that, but it's not exactly....helpful, or in fact, it doesn't really put a "pep in my step" as much as it just bums me out that people think I'm useless trash.

dude, you're the only person who's getting a "dent in their confidence" from this shiz. here's a lesson in mafia: "You can die," usually means we don't trust that person. people we don't trust... can die.

and it is helpful because telling the public who you trust and don't trust leaves a trail. commotions and arguments and conflict and confrontations create disconnections. scum will not easily bus their partner unless they're attempting to gambit. even a bus gambit can be trailed and caught. however, saying nothing has no trails and not voicing your likes and dislikes keeps a player's connections to a minimum. if your paper trail is thin and weak and it's difficult to find a player's connections then to you're playing scum correctly.

So you've got a bunch of slight scum reads. However, you KNOW there are only a certain amount of scum in the game, so why not go through the game and pick out the SCUMMIEST, instead of saying all of them can die? To the people who are "slight scum, not scummiest", suggest ways to better performance. I'm trying to be more vocal now, because people think I can just coast along, but that's a bull**** way to play.

whoa, whoa. #1, why do you think i've been pushing frozen all this time? my #2's and #3's have wavered but frozen has been my trophy scum pick for a while now. #2 i think i've attempted to coach you into being more aggressive and keeping away from AtE as well as encourage players like tom to step it up. however, as i told you before, it is not my job to hold your hand. you're not going to get the tom treatment from me because as i said i'm going to treat you as a vet in order to avoid "the dumb scum" tactic.

im glad you're being more outspoken. really i am. enough about your personal feelings tho. just tell us who you think is scum and who you think is town. if u disagree with something state why. there's no need to go into all this AtE

consider this a nice reply

 

[Omni]

Trust me, I don't have a superiority complex. In fact, I FEEL inferior to people like you, Tom, and Marshy, even Macman to an extent, which inherently intimidates me. I'll admit I'm not a strong enough personality to just claim so many people in the game can die, nor do I feel I can coast by (Macman) with inactivity and one-liners. I'm attempting to combat this, but this in no way phases my thinking, but I can't speak for other players.

ive been using that term wrong. i meant to say you have an inferiority complex. gah @ AtE. capitalizing "FEEL" just makes it worse, lol

i can't tell you how to combat it except with playing mafia well. the more you bring this kind of conversation into the game the more it hinders you. it's a game of logic. emotion can impair logic. you can use emotion as a weapon but emotion is usually frowned upon.

After Code Geass mafia, my first win, I got some advice that I should be more aggressive, that anything said within a game is simply game talk, and never to take it to heart. I'm trying to stay with that mindset.

cool. get into that mindset. your pasts couple of posts will probably be ignored because it talks about a lot of things that don't correlate directly to us finding scum in this game

 

[M.K]

I'm a middle of the road kind of guy.

@MK: Uh... Did you read my #681?

FOS: MK

For skimming.

Yes I read it, sorry, I didn't get to it.
I think we can both agree that our posts after the kill were unnecessary, but questioning the deaths that didn't happen isn't something I would think town would bring up. To me, it's like "whew, okay, let's continue". Plus, since we didn't get a flip, the discussion was even more stale than usual.
I didn't see much of your actions D1, I apologize, I will re-read for you. Either you didn't stand out in the open or you didn't have that much to say. However, that sentence just struck a bad chord with me.
And consider yourself a very distant #2, IF even #2 now. I have to read more into people like Macman and Nich, who I still don't like, but he's got a claim on his side.
And yeah, read what I wrote about Frozen in the above posts. His posts scream town to me, it's not in our best interest to lynch him solely out of activity. I didn't know i put him at L-1 when I voted, so I unvoted.

 

[Tom]

i dont really think i can explain it any better. no one is trying to say "you suck and we dont need you."

MK you can do what you want. its the internet. if you want to be a strong personality, just do what you want, and you will be a strong personality. it doesnt have anything to do with scumhunting ability or worth, though.

 

[Tom]

just to elaborate

you have your tools of logic and reason and you can present yourself however you want. and dont let any of what we say or do bother you. once you close this browser window, we no longer exist. dont feel inferior. dont feel intimidated. i see you as an equal, MK, so see me as one and treat me like one and act however you want.

 

[Xiivi]

Vote Count 19

Frozenflame (3) - Vanderzant, Tom, Overswarm
Zensei (1) - MarshEE
Not Voting (7) - Rockin, Macman, Frozenflame, Zensei, Nicholas1024, Omni, Meta-Kirby

With 11 Alive, It Takes A Vote Of 6 To Lynch!

Deadline is Friday, August 6th at 11:59:59 PM EST.

 

[vanderzant]

Yes I read it, sorry, I didn't get to it.
I think we can both agree that our posts after the kill were unnecessary, but questioning the deaths that didn't happen isn't something I would think town would bring up. To me, it's like "whew, okay, let's continue". Plus, since we didn't get a flip, the discussion was even more stale than usual.
I didn't see much of your actions D1, I apologize, I will re-read for you. Either you didn't stand out in the open or you didn't have that much to say. However, that sentence just struck a bad chord with me.
And consider yourself a very distant #2, IF even #2 now. I have to read more into people like Macman and Nich, who I still don't like, but he's got a claim on his side.
And yeah, read what I wrote about Frozen in the above posts. His posts scream town to me, it's not in our best interest to lynch him solely out of activity. I didn't know i put him at L-1 when I voted, so I unvoted.

Still, that seems like a pretty weak reason to consider me your #2 lynch suspect. Especially considering you say you didn't pay much attention to me Day 1 (which implies you think I'm inactive. Why didn't you mention Mac/Zen/Chaco? They were pretty inactive on Day 1 as well.

What about your Day 1 suspicions? Why am I more suspicious to you then them?

 

[M.K]

Still, that seems like a pretty weak reason to consider me your #2 lynch suspect. Especially considering you say you didn't pay much attention to me Day 1 (which implies you think I'm inactive. Why didn't you mention Mac/Zen/Chaco? They were pretty inactive on Day 1 as well.

What about your Day 1 suspicions? Why am I more suspicious to you then them?

(pardon if this has errors, trying to write this in my homeroom during school)

I didn't imply you were inactive, I implied that you didn't really stand out as a power player on Day 1.
My Day 1 suspicions still hold, especially MarshEE, and I've already told you about Macman.

Meh, your reaction to being #2 on my lynch list especially when there is only one lynch in a day is sorta frantic. I've already said that you should consider yourself a very distant #2, if EVEN #2.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Part 1: Answering leftover questions:

do you still agree with OS' statement, Frozen?

ALL of your questions have served no purpose other than to make YOU feel more comfortable by your own admission.

because you seem to think that Overswarm has performed a good analysis of my game thus far which strikes me as odd since i think it's horrible.

On a principle level, yes I do. OS's core argument here is that your questions primarily had the likely intent or end result of help you further develop your own reads or simply clarified issues or garnered information that was useful to YOU in particular. For example, asking people who they think the "weakest" players in the game, asking for other people's meta on certain players, asking why you are a pick in a given instance in the very early game aren't exactly question that have answers that provide a lot of us with food for thought. You aren't getting people to take stances that anyone can go back and re-analyze with the surronding context of IN-GAME material, but simply asking for information that, though related to the game, really only leaves information trails that you can accurately interpret.

I wouldn't say ALL of your questions were only for your purposes, but it was a dominant theme in your early game content.

okay. so far that's Overswarm's interpretation and read on my game at this point.
Tom however feels differently both here and here. completely the opposite. i'm going to ask (Frozen) do you disagree with Tom's interpretation of my play because it goes exactly against Overswarm's interpretation of my play which you seem to agree with being solid.

Though Tom may have taken a stance that doesn't mesh with OS's analysis of your play, I wouldn't go so far to say that Tom really clashed with his stance at all. Those two posts are primarily explanations to MK of what he believes YOUR intentions are with your grilling of MK. Tom certainly gives you more credit than OS does for your approach to doing that though. For example he alleges that you had done more for the activity of this game that anyone else. I'd actually be inclined to agree, but I don't think that this assessment directly clashed with OS's core analysis. You were VERY active and yes, you drove a lot of the early game discussion. However, that does NOT mean that the means by which you drove that discussion, or the type of discussion you generated, was necessarily entirely pro-town, or designed to generate discussion that would clarify things for the WHOLE TOWN and not just your own interests.

Nice, a possible town confirm because.... Tom is doing his homework.

Nothing particularly big here, but still the biggest contribution you have.
suggesting that my stalking of Tom viewing Batmafia and doing his HW was my biggest contribution. bad. bad, bad, bad. but do you (Frozen) agree with this, too? and to wrap it up.

Do I agree with OS saying this is your biggest contribution? No. But do I think that this contribution is an example of the continuing trend of you satruating the early game with a lot of content that again, is more geared toward your own scumhunting than the town's ability to scumhunt in general? Yes.

OS blew a ton of the things you did out of proportion, but that doesn't mean his core accusations are wrong. Falsus un unum, falsus un omnibus certainly does not apply. The way he portrayed his example to support his original core notion was pretty atrocious, but if you cut the fat and look at it from an outside analytical perspective, you can see that his most basic assessment holds true.

Like seriously, what am I, or anyone else for that matter, supposed to take away from you saying you saw Tom doing research in Batmafia? Taking that type of stance that is ENTIRELY meta and has no in-game context to associate it with is just empty assessing of another persons play with entirely personal reasons that would require a leap of faith on anyone's part to agree with.

you also agree that these statements are a solid assessment of my play?

If by "scumhunting" you mean voting for inactives, complaining about inactives, and taunting Meta-Kirby, then sure.

In the early game, yes.

You've focused on one person only: Meta-Kirby. Everything else is about inactives. EVERYTHING.

This is exaggerated. Replace everything with primarily and you'll have a statement I could sympathize with.

What information have you received? I'm curious.

This is a really good question that would kind of just wrote off as "omg he doesn't realize I've generated soooo much info", when he isn't questioning that you've generated information, but is actually asking you to explain what exactly we've learned from it, or perhaps what only you are able to take away from it, because of the narrow scope of the scum-hunting techniques employed.

My "thesis" is that you have no bite to your actions. None of your actions help town in any way.

I see where he's coming from with the "no bite thing" and he explains it decently well when he talks about your voting trail and whatnot. That part is pretty accurate but honestly isn't a huge deal IMO because when you do say as much as you (omni) were, its hard to have a "bite" to everything you do simply because you can only do so much with your vote and moving it around a lot undermines its significance. As for you actions not helping the town in any way, I don't agree with that. His thesis in that regard would more accurately be "your actions have primarily been designed to help YOU scum hunt, but not necessarily the town as a whole whether that be intentional or unintentional" and I would certainly agree with that.

FoS: FrozenFlame

anyone who thinks that OS' posts was a solid analysis of my play does not sit well with me. i could see it from some of the weaker and less experienced players but you seem to really like his concepts on me. frankly, that scares me.

I really don't like here how you try to make my agreement with OS and disagreement with you seem scummy simply because I'm "more experienced". What does my experience have anything to do with logical underpinnings of OS's early game attack on you and your IMO lacking defense? This goes all the way back to OS's accusation that you seem to have a problem with anyone who disagrees with you.

More importantly is the fact that you tried to purport the idea that "obviously anyone with experience will see that I'm right and OS is wrong, and if you don't then you are either scum or inexperienced". This implicit stance tells me you don't feel comfortable with other "experienced players" taking issue with your primary stances. In otherwords, I get the feeling that you sort of had a knee-jerk reaction that sought to undermine any potentially loud opposition just by virtue of being experience opposition that disagrees with you.

answer this Frozen: what about my early approach to the game is scummy? it's one thing to be accurate about my approach (which isn't complicated in the least bit), but it's another to outwardly believe that it is scummy in nature. please explain in detail what you found scummy about my early game.

I'm hoping this post satisfactorily answers this.

Working on parts 2 and 3 now but I don't think I'll be able to get everything done completely before I have to leave for work. I'll tell you guys if I abridge **** though and will follow up with detail tonight with anything that I don't flesh out completely.

 

[Overswarm]

omg you're still on me and omni D:

 

[Omni]

Lol well it's progress.

Frozen, you didn't explain why you felt I was scummy. Kinda just said, "although exaggerated os' assessment of your early game play was accurate and i agree with the general concepts"

u got a lot of catching up to do so I won't like go tit4tat with u. just continue with your to do list so u can be current.

 

[Omni]

Also.

Tom, marshee, rockin, mac. Would like to know im detail what your thoughts are on Frozen. B4 or after his catch up. Idc.

 

[Overswarm]

"Oh yeah, I totally love her ??? song!" ??? replied with a false smile.

"Cool, have you met up with anyone else?" Gheb_01 asked.

"Oh yeah, I've met some others. Come with me!!" ??? said leading Gheb_01 to a distant room.

Shortly thereafter, screams could be heard from the room, and a crowd rushed in to find the murdered body of Gheb_01. In his pocket they found a note. You want to play mafia at Avril-Con huh? Well don't worry, we brought the noose for you. Aiden will reign supreme!! Before they knew it, the lights went out. During the panic that ensued every Avril fan who was a dGamer found themselves captured and thrown into a different room. On the floor the words Knife Blood Murderwere written and they realized they had been trapped by the Aiden lovers. Now they had to play mafia to save themselves from the Aiden lovers...and if you died in this game, you were going to die in real life...

I just realized this states that mafia has safeclaims and NKills.

I'm gonna go ahead and stand by my Yakuza theory for now. Mafia is down a NKill.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Part 2: Rebuttal to 490

okay. a deep analysis doesn't make it a good one. i think the fact that you still missed a bunch of questions that i asked you in that post shows how deep your analysis was. also, it was like... your first or second real post in the game. im pretty sure we asked you to comment on us; there hasn't been much of anything that was proactive. mainly reactive.

Depth of analysis has nothing to do with scope of analysis. Just because having lots of depth or even lots of scope doesn't necessarily mean any kind of anaylsis will be good OR bad. Why would you even say "just because it's deep doesn't mean its good"? I never made that conjecture. Having depth is a positive quality, so I said as much. You then go ahead and try to undermine its quality by positing a POSSIBILITY, and then offering no reasoning WHY my analysis was bad. All you're saying is "oh just cause your anaylsis was deep doesn't make it good" with the obvious intent of suggesting that it ISN'T good by virtue of it being a possibility which is just wrong on so many levels.

I meant proactive in the sense that I was taking strong stances on new issues that very few if any players had taken a stance on or even commented on. Yes, it was a reaction to actions taken by other players (as most stances that people take and analysis that people offer are) but that doesn't mean I'm just sitting back and waiting for people to take stances and then tailoring my own to be the best fit, which would be characteristic of pure reactionary play.

i never said that you didn't take a stance. why are you bringing this up? frozen, which players here haven't taken a stance?

At this point in the game no one, and also in the general sense, there isn't anyone who hadn't taken any stances. What I was talking about is my stance on You v. OS. I brought it up because it DIRECTLY RELATES to my claim of being proactive which you clearly missed as I stated above.

At the point in time where I offered my initial assessment of You v. OS most of the cast hadn't taken anything that could be called a stance on the matter. That's what I was talking about.

you gave an in-depth look at what was a pretty obvious looking scumslip. it was also your first real post in the game. i don't think you were the one who got that wagon moving; tom/mac were. think you may be giving yourself too much credit.

Obviously you and I have different ideas of what it means to "get a wagon moving". Macman might have voted Kbot first but other than that he did next to nothing to generate discussion on Kbot. Where are you getting the idea that Tom was a major proponent of that wagon? That needs some serious backup. Marshy maybe, but Tom? lolno

no, nich is being bullheaded.

3/4's into the game you only made a connection with 3 of the players in the game. i also think your support of OS's statement was weak. moreso i think it was opportunistic to support it more than anything. regardless, it's been like 3-4 pages and you've still left questions unanswered about my response post. in the process you've only selectively answered certain points and claimed that answering the rest would be leading you to doing a PBPA... which it wouldnt. -that's- what i would call sidestepping

What does the bullheadedness of another player on a totally different issue have anything to do with an accusation that you are being bullhead. Nothing. That's a sidestep.

So let me get this straight, because I laid out clear as day what to expect from me if you wanted me to explain my stance in greater detail, I'm sidestepping? lolwat? I said I would do a PBPA if you guys wanted. You guys said no. How is that my sidestepping anything? And where are you getting off saying that I "wouldn't have had to do a PBPA"? Like wtf? You're not me, and you certainly aren't clairvoyant, so who are you to tell me what it would take to meet the demands of other players?

no, they weren't irrelevant. i asked them because the answer was relevant. i think i even said, "frozen, you really need to answer these questions" and marshEE told you to get on that as well. why are you suggesting that the questions i asked were irrelevant? i argued how OS' assessment of my play was weak in several parts of his posts and then returned to you and said, "do you agree with this specific section?" among other questions. why would you deem that irrelevant?

Because the questions were related to the exaggerated points of OS's argument. When I offered my analysis of you v. OS I deliberately "cut the fat" from it because OS's often outrageous blanket statements weren't accurate representations of what my core argument was. They were irrelevant because those LoAs that you had questions about were not accurate representations of my argument. Telling me that they are "absolutely relevant" is like telling me that someone babbling idiot's arguments for something like gun control are relevant to my stance on gun control or something along those lines. There's no need to bring them in to the discussion when all I'm supporting is the logical core which I DID ANSWER questions about, because those were the relevant ones.

no one said you were scummy for taking a stance. where do you keep getting this point from? it was simply your agreement of such a mediocre case and portraying it as "very solid" that lifted my brow.

No one said I was scummy by virtue of taking a stance, but you did deem me as being scummy for taking a strong stance that you disagreed with on a very big issue at that point in the game. I wasn't trying to say that you were calling me scummy JUST for taking a stance. I was trying to say that the fact that I even TOOK a stance at that point supports my earlier notion of proactivity. I wasn't trying to defend against a non-existent accusation that my taking a stance was sucmmy, I was showcasing non scummy elements of the action I took that you had a problem with for its details, not its essence.

i'm not the play. stop being terrible.

You haven't convinced me otherwise yet. I might have been terrible as far as activity goes (though I'm pretty sure that wasn't what you were getting at) but you certainly haven't been able to backup the claim that my analysis and rebuttal has been terrible. At all.

Running out of time before I have to go to work but luckily now that the **** I need to have massive quoting for and stuff is out of the way I can probably get part 3 (reads of basically everyone else) done while I'm at work.

But yeah Vote: Omni I still have a lot more to say about his recent transgressions in greater detail but I'm more convinced than ever that he's still the play.

Call me tunneling all you want but I don't care his **** is still mad scummy to me.

Post #591 (http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10821538&postcount=591) is all kinds of bad with like some of the most rediculous ***-backward "point assessing" I've ever seen. And that's just the tip of the iceberg though more detail will probably have to wait till tonight since I'll be spending most of my free time at work trying to finish Part 3.

 

[Overswarm]

Flame, does your vote for Omni mean you think he is the play for toDay?

If so, could you tell me why in a statement that would fit on a Christmas Card (in big loopy grandma handwriting)?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

@ OS obvious part 1 was about you v. Omni. That's what all the leftover questions were about. Not sure what you were expecting lol

And yeah I've been caught up reading wise forever I just need to put it all into a post basically. Substantiating my Omni vote in greater detail will probably have to wait till tonight since it requires quoting and **** that sucks on phone posting. But yeah gonna through everyone else at work as best I can to construct part 3.

 

[Overswarm]

No, ti doesn't require quoting.


"I'm voting for Hitler. I think he's the play toDay because he's killing tons of people as a scapegoat and he's going to get us all killed if we follow him"

Bam. Done. No speeches quoted.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Alright the best summary I can give is this then.

Omni is the play because:

- regular sidestepping of tough questions
- really bad rebuttal across the board
- obvious intent to undermine the credibility of potentially loud opposition by virtue of being opposition
- following from the previous line, consistent attempts to solidify an understanding that his prominent status is risky/dangerous (i.e. an unlikely scum approach) but has built it up in a manner that relies on stifling what would be the only threat to that approach (loud opposition)
- post #591 for just being crazy awful

That's the best I could do. =/

 

[Overswarm]

Can you signify which of those indicate he is scum, rather than a large-headed town player?

 

[Omni]

Can you signify which of those indicate he is scum, rather than a large-headed town player?

HELLO!

Ff, you seem to he hitting me like hit OS. You disagree with a lot that say. The difference is that I didn't put sbscummy twists to OSs posts. I picked up a town vibe in his hunt. Even if I felt that it was still slightly scummy there are buttloads of people who need to die before him.

The same applies to me. Call it what you want. I'm not the play. Is it based on how protown I've been? Maybe. But probably because there are a plethora of players this game that are treading borderline scummy.

I don't have a problem with you wanting me dead. I have a problem with you wanting me dead toDay over all the other players still in the game. I also have a problem with you finding me scummy soley on interpretations oft actions. If you look at the cause and effect of my actions they've been mostly positive.

Have my actions been that scummy to you? You don't find me helpful or useful in the least bit? Is there anything you can acknowledge me for in regards to protown? Are you purposely ignoring all the protown actions that I've done?

I know my play hasn't been so awful that I look like obv scum since Day 1.

so weird

 

[Omni]

Typos galore. iPhone sucks.

 

[Overswarm]

HELLO!

Ff, you seem to he hitting me like hit OS. You disagree with a lot that say. The difference is that I didn't put sbscummy twists to OSs posts. I picked up a town vibe in his hunt. Even if I felt that it was still slightly scummy there are buttloads of people who need to die before him.

The same applies to me. Call it what you want. I'm not the play. Is it based on how protown I've been? Maybe. But probably because there are a plethora of players this game that are treading borderline scummy.

I don't have a problem with you wanting me dead. I have a problem with you wanting me dead toDay over all the other players still in the game. I also have a problem with you finding me scummy soley on interpretations oft actions. If you look at the cause and effect of my actions they've been mostly positive.

Have my actions been that scummy to you? You don't find me helpful or useful in the least bit? Is there anything you can acknowledge me for in regards to protown? Are you purposely ignoring all the protown actions that I've done?

I know my play hasn't been so awful that I look like obv scum since Day 1.

so weird

That's an interesting outburst. I've actually commented on how I consider you to NOT be scummy multiple times now, and that question was literally asking what I wrote. What out of those things did FROZEN think made YOU scummy.

It's not like you to make outbursts like this, Omni. Desperate?

 

[Omni]

Those are rhetorical questions.

try rereading it again but with a blunt, sarcastic attitude

but yea ur picking up the wrong feel of the post

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Reasons 3 & 4 are primarily the reasons where a draw the distinction of scummy from big headed townie from.

It was his implicit creation of a distinction between experienced and inexperienced players when it comes to opposing him that really caught my attention.

He said it was troubling that an experienced player like me would agree with OSs attacks on him whereas he would be more ok with it if i was inexperienced. This tells me he wants to undermine resistence from experienced players to his loudness, but has no issue with inexperienced players doing so. This leads me to conclude that he created this distinction because as scum, having experienced players attack you is threatening while its easy to twist the comments of inexperienced players and make them seem like scum if they disagree with you. As scum you would welcome and even encourage attacks from "weaker players" but if he were simply a big headed townie it shouldnt matter who is resisting his LoAs; there should be no distinction between players of different experience.

Reasons 1 and 5 are also pretty good for drawing that distincttion but not nearly as well.

#2 is really the only reason i can see being equally indicative of big headed or scummy

 

[Rockin]

UGH. FINALLY!

Sorry Omni, there was a lot to read and even more to digest.

You should cut me some slack anyway. I'm attending a con I don't even effing know. Like, I rather be at the anime cons like I usually do (Speaking of that, I should try and get Meredith McCoy's autograph.....<3<3<3 her Android #18 voice....as well as the character herself ^^)

But enough about that...

First of all, I would like to wonder why everyone was grilling Omni about hitting inactives? From past games I've seen, I recall him just not liking inactives in general (He likes it when everyone talks).As I read more from him, I've been getting some town vibes from him

Reading MarshEE (the marsh side) posts makes me feel glad I'm playing with him again :D. Hasn't really done anything scummy, though I wished he voiced in his opinion more and get involved in the discussion that was at hand.

I really disliked the sudden AtE from Meta Kirby early on. The way he responded was pretty poor and scummy. I've been with him in Code Geass where he acted similar in terms of acting emotionally. Upon that, hasn't really proved to me that he's town. I feel he should be lynched before anyone else, really.

I liked Tom early on cause he was getting involved in discussion and speaking his mind. However, I rose a eyebrow when I saw less and less post content from him and more of who he want/agreed dead/lynched/shot. I can probably take his word for it that it's just the matter of frustration of who to trust and disinterest in the game, but still...I would like to hear more from him.

Overswarm seemed to be doing moderatly good. I disagreed with the case on Omni on the main basis of him hitting inactives, which I do not find scummy. I feel he's neutral leaning town. Despite being wrong, I havn't seen anything scummy from him.

I frown on Nich's sudden claim as well as his 'case' on Omni, which was pretty terrible IMO. All meta, nothing that's truly scummy in this game. I can see town Nich acting like this, but meh...most of his post is stupid. He should've read first before replying to anything. I also disagree with his reason on why Frozen is town. Activity? Really? Couldn't it have just been because Frozen just has more free time? D2's performance got slightly worse when he suddenly refused to claim. I find the claim iffy.

Frozen is a bit of a puzzle. I don't see the mindset or reason why he believes in OS's case on Omni. I may have missed it, but I don't think he has responded to Nich's reason on him being town, which I find odd. I would be sure that Frozen would correct Nich on that regard that ' people normally iinactive becoming very acting /=/ town.' Regardless, I feel he's neutral. If someone wants me to lynch him, they may have to convince me.

Didn't like Zensei's D1 play of constant coasting. He has gotten better D2, but eh. Possibly scum, and wouldn't mind him lynched.

Macman's disinterest early D1 reminds me of his past meta. I remember him being more active when he's town, and less active or enthusiastic as scum (unless he's with a killer mafia group). Aside from that, I havn't seen much content. He's SLIGHTLY getting better D2, but I'm not fully buying him as town (Yet), so I wouldn't mind if he's rid of.

Vanz...eh, I dunno. I havn't had much problems with him, but I hardly heard him voiced out or had a dispute with anyone. Neutral for now.

The lynch on D1 was....acceptable. Yes, his partner said something silly that really made Kirbyyoshi looked bad, but at least a bit of information was gained. I felt a lot of people was on the easy lynch for a reason. I'm sure at least one scum was on it.

so yeah, my lynch choices are

Meta-Kirby
Nich
Macman/Zensei



MarshEE - How does EE feel about the result of D1 as a whole and what do you and him think about the progress of D2?

Tom - You wanted to end the day while I was still trying to catch up. Any reason, bro?

Meta Kirby/Nich - Tell me why I should believe you as town?

Everyone - What does everyone think about Vanz?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

@ omni i never said you were obv scum since d1. If anything my initial assessment of you was fency at best, leaning scum.

However after posting that first big assessment youve continued to convince me that yyou're scum.

You say youve done so much "protown" stuff but the point is ANY GOOD SCUM PLAYER can do stuff that looks protown on the surface. If scum couldnt do tthat theyd be losing all the time. But thats the thing, it looks protown on the surface, but if you read between the lines and do deeper analysis you find the scummy attributes or intent behind what is purported as protown.

Of course my read on you is based on interpretation of your actions. What the hell else can i use Did you seriously just ask me to take the "cause and effects" of your actions at face value and base my read on that Wtf Thats like a scum players wet dream! Manipulating peoplle to get good cause and effect connections at face value is THE JOB OF SCUM.

You might think other players deserve death more tha you but im very confident in my read on you, and just like you shoudnt lynch people you are convinced are toown, you also shouldnt back down on people you are convinced are scum. I agree that other people deserve death in this game, hell im one of them until i finish my to do list, but that doesnt take away from your scumminess.

 

[The Angry Mafia Game Nerd]

omni ill let macman say what he thinks about frozen first

i dunno rockin. i havent talked to ee in a while. i think he said he might have time to reread this weekend or something so maybe youll find out then. as for d2...everyones pulling in different directions and we somehow have 7 nonvoters. its annoying and disorienting

 

[Rockin]

Ahh, I see. Oh, and as for vote

Vote: Meta-Kirby