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[m-1, 14, 28] avril lavigne mafia - over

Steel

Where's my Jameson?
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Vote Count 10

Kirby-Bot (5) - MacMan, FrozenFlame, MarshEE, Chacotaco, vanderzant
MarshEE (1) - OverSwarm
Omni (1) - Nicholas1024
Not Voting (5) - ZenSei, Tom, Meta-Kirby, Kirbyoshi, Omni


With 12 Alive, It Takes A Vote Of 7 To Lynch!


DeadLine Is ThursDay July 22nd 11:59:59 PM EST.

 
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the third sentence of the second paragraph. omni goes into detail in 246 as to why os' original case is mostly trash and os responds with slander and ignoring omnis question in 254

pushing an os lynch...mmm no. i mean i am ambivalent about him but hes not a play today. and i often find cases i think are bad scummy and manipulative

you described my post as dumb. what/who do you find scummy? not about that post just in general

nick why did you feel the need to pseudoscumhunt ask everybody who they thought was scum besides kirbyoshi/k-bot when you hadnt even read the game yet?
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

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So I started doing a big post explaining why OS's initial analysis of Omni's play was actually good at its logical core, but it was going to take forever because I was going to have to basically re-word all of OS's statements to not be over dramaticized.

I also then realized it would take equally long to break down a lot of how Omni has addressed OS's points in a very indirect, sidestepping manner. OS points out a scummy attribute of something you've done, but instead of actually contesting the claim, you sidestep it by saying "that wasn't the point of what I did, I was doing it to achieve <insert X protown goal here>. It's not that Omni isn't being logically cogent, but you aren't actually taking on OS's attacks, you're just trying to justify things as if it removes the basis for criticism. This is something I find scummy in that it's very easy to put a protown spin on ANYTHING whereas it is much harder to actually rebut against accusations that certain actions taken have scummy attributes.

I can do a long PBPA on this matter if people want that breakdown but it's going to take awhile.

Since I've got a laundry list miles long of demands to meet I'll start taking things one step at a time but its been taking forever to dissect Omni/OS as it is.

Omni's 246 is probably the best spot, the questions he posed that is.

Omni said:
thoughts on MetaKirby vs. Me exchange?
who do you want to hear more from?
tell me what you think of both tom and marshEE and their play so far.
also want to know how your opinion on chaco for now as well.
1.) Not really getting anything out of it TBQH. Some empty discussion over whether some **** was AtE, not a very pertinent interaction or anything with good game related analysis. Just an empty exchange with some misinterpretation all bundled up.

2.) Kirby-Bot, well KirbyYo now that the hydra is broken up, especially considering my vote is on him and hes done nothing to change my view that he's done nothing other than what I've called him out for all game.

3.) Tom: Backseat player so far but hasn't been nudging people in bad directions as far as I can tell. Usually what I look for when people play more of that background commentator role so to speak, is comments and suggestions that undermine player credibility that is unrelated to on-going discussion, bad or otherwise misconstruing analysis, or attempts to distract players from suspicious activities or in depth analysis of good interactions. He really hasn't done this and so he hasn't been bothering me.

MarshEE: Aggressive. Out for blood. Not really sure what to think of it because that's how marshy always is. His constant hounding of OS doesn't bother me at the moment because he has some callouts that are legit, but otherwise he's just as guilty as OS is of exaggerating points. Though at the core of his arguments I think he's been pretty reasonable, his presentation has been bellicose and I mostly attribute this to him having bloodlust as a result of seeing Omin/OS go at it (i.e. a good excuse to try and tear down OS). His analysis as I said has been mediocre but I know WHY it has been and I don't attribute it to scummyness, just him being distracted. If this becomes a trend later in the game though he'll require more looking at.

4.) Little to nothing? Like he has no presence in this game and amidst all the other interactions to look into in this game my attention is no where close to him. I'll go back and re-read everything he's said but I can almost guarantee I'll have like nothing new for you.

Hope that's enough to work with for now. I'm swamped as **** and trying to catch up.
 
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I can do a long PBPA on this matter (omni v os) if people want that breakdown but it's going to take awhile.
plzno. unless you want to try to get more people suspicious of omni which goes hand-in-hand with my earlier question (if omni is whod you be voting if not k-bot and if not him then who) and if you think it wont distract you from commenting on other players
 

Kirbyoshi

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Chaco said:
Kirbybot, if you had to choose 4 players from this game to take to endgame with you, who would they be and why?
I don’t like this question, and since I don’t, I’ll hold off on answering it until you can tell me what town benefits from such a question being answered.

Omni said:
You need to post a defense and you need to full claim immediately.
I know this is a pain, but since that case is so spread out, would everyone mind concisely stating their problems with me? And no on the claim. It’s not the answer.

Omni said:
you need to tell us KirbyBot if you don't think you're the play for toDay what other players do you think should be lynched over you
OS, Chaco, Frozen, not necessarily in that order. Although my suspicion on OS could simply be because I don’t like him. Chaco for lurking. Reasoning for Frozen coming soon to a Mafia thread near you.

Omni said:
Ah, I can see it now.

Kirbyoshi: "I don't know why Clownbot said what he said! Anyway, I'm not scum."
Actually, kind of. He didn’t clear the purple posts with me before he posted them, and if only half of a hydra could be scum, I’d be voting him right now.

OS said:
@mod

I'm assuming clownbot told you he lost interest, and KYoshi said nothing.
Wrong. Actually, Clownbot told me he lost interest, and I passed the message along to Steel.

So yeah, sorry about the whole inactivity. I guess I don't know how to play a hydra correctly, because Clown and me rarely agreed, and almost never on at the same time. I think I should become a good solo player first, that'd be nice. :rolleyes:
 

M.K

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\

Actually, kind of. He didn’t clear the purple posts with me before he posted them, and if only half of a hydra could be scum, I’d be voting him right now.
Meh, I don't like this. You're both working from the same standpoint obviously, and since it's impossible for half of one player to be scum, you must be scum. Why, if you are both trying to find scummy players, do you disagree on who you go after? Do you disagree on who is the weaker town player and the easiest to get lynched, thus causing tension?
The very fact that Clownbot "lost interest" piques my curiosity. Did he give up because working with Kirbyo was so hard?
 

M.K

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Sorry.
I was coming from the standpoint that you may have conflicted (if you were scum, that is) on which players to target for the lynch. If you both disagreed on a specific player to target, than you would keep switching to the intended target of either Clownbot or Kirbyo, based on who's posting. If you and Clownbot disagreed, than he may have become flustered and lost interest to play the game with you.
I hope I made it clear enough. >_>;;
 

Omni

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So I started doing a big post explaining why OS's initial analysis of Omni's play was actually good at its logical core, but it was going to take forever because I was going to have to basically re-word all of OS's statements to not be over dramaticized.
well rewording OS's statements and removing the dramatization completely changes the analysis of my play. more importantly, being accurate about how i approached the game =/= my approach being scummy.

I also then realized it would take equally long to break down a lot of how Omni has addressed OS's points in a very indirect, sidestepping manner. OS points out a scummy attribute of something you've done, but instead of actually contesting the claim, you sidestep it by saying "that wasn't the point of what I did, I was doing it to achieve <insert X protown goal here>. It's not that Omni isn't being logically cogent, but you aren't actually taking on OS's attacks, you're just trying to justify things as if it removes the basis for criticism. This is something I find scummy in that it's very easy to put a protown spin on ANYTHING whereas it is much harder to actually rebut against accusations that certain actions taken have scummy attributes.
very indirect, sidestepping manner? no sir.

i was very precise and there was no sidestepping involved. what were you reading? what OS did was interpret actions of mine as scummy; then piggybanked on those scummy ideas to lead to more scummy actions. i then explained the intentions of my actions moreso repeating why i did what. for example: when i say my questions in the beginning of the game were not scummy but an attempt to the exit the RVS phase it's exactly what i said. so either you AGREE with what i call OS's misinterpretations of my play or you don't.

i am taking on OS's attack head on. i am correcting him and explaining my intentions of my actions. its actually very easy to put a anti-town spin on ANYTHING as well especially when you're doing a PBPA with an end of mine "you are scum" approach.

go back to my post and answer all the questions that i asked you specifically and in detail. you dont need a PBPA of that entire post, but you definitely need to answer the specific questions i asked you because they are very important to understanding your thought process on the manner.


Since I've got a laundry list miles long of demands to meet I'll start taking things one step at a time but its been taking forever to dissect Omni/OS as it is.
no johns. catch up.

1.) Not really getting anything out of it TBQH. Some empty discussion over whether some **** was AtE, not a very pertinent interaction or anything with good game related analysis. Just an empty exchange with some misinterpretation all bundled up.
so you think my point on MetaKirby was weak and/or non-existent? it's pretty clear that MetaKirby's reaction was AtE. the exchange was not empty and i believe helped me to get a much better read on what kind of player MetaKirby is.

dont like that you didnt get much from that

2.) Kirby-Bot, well KirbyYo now that the hydra is broken up, especially considering my vote is on him and hes done nothing to change my view that he's done nothing other than what I've called him out for all game.
ok.

3.) Tom: Backseat player so far but hasn't been nudging people in bad directions as far as I can tell. Usually what I look for when people play more of that background commentator role so to speak, is comments and suggestions that undermine player credibility that is unrelated to on-going discussion, bad or otherwise misconstruing analysis, or attempts to distract players from suspicious activities or in depth analysis of good interactions. He really hasn't done this and so he hasn't been bothering me.
ok.

MarshEE: Aggressive. Out for blood. Not really sure what to think of it because that's how marshy always is. His constant hounding of OS doesn't bother me at the moment because he has some callouts that are legit, but otherwise he's just as guilty as OS is of exaggerating points. Though at the core of his arguments I think he's been pretty reasonable, his presentation has been bellicose and I mostly attribute this to him having bloodlust as a result of seeing Omin/OS go at it (i.e. a good excuse to try and tear down OS). His analysis as I said has been mediocre but I know WHY it has been and I don't attribute it to scummyness, just him being distracted. If this becomes a trend later in the game though he'll require more looking at.
i actually find scumarshy to be a lot more quiet and allow things to play themselves out while he coasts his way through the beginning of the game. think: indy play @ Final Fantasy Mafia.

interesting response. i'm not sure what to take from it.

4.) Little to nothing? Like he has no presence in this game and amidst all the other interactions to look into in this game my attention is no where close to him. I'll go back and re-read everything he's said but I can almost guarantee I'll have like nothing new for you.
ok. which means he would fit your answer for #2, right?
 

Omni

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omni which games have you asked that question before? no need to link just say the games and ill find em myself
u guys already know about marathon

ekans mafia (scum):

pokemans. i has em.

i dont think ive played a game with you, PSI. how experienced/inexperienced are you
chrono trigger mafia (indy):

oh hi rajam

1.) how experienced/inexperienced are you with mafia games
2.) why would you vote to travel so early w/o discussing knowing that you can't "unvote" a vote to a new time period
final fantasy 6 mafia (town) bbr:

good job not answering a legitimate question.

to get things started, heres a question for everyone:

1.) are you new to mafia?
2.) if no, how long have you been paying (or how many games have you played)
if ur talking just about the "who's the weakest" question

in both ff6 and chrono trigger i was a vet dealing with players who were new to the game. there was no application for the question. in ekans mafia, PSI was the only new person in the game (for me) thus there was no other new person to compare them too thus no application for the question again. marathon has been one of the only games that have had experienced players that i knew mixed with players i've never heard of before. same applies to this game.

the only other game that fit the description was BIM 2 but since i was with my gf by the time i came to the game we were already out of the RVS stage.

could be missing some more games. didnt do much of a thorough search but i took a long hiatus from mafia and have only just recently started playing more (and asking those set of questions)
 

Nicholas1024

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Hm. Alright, I'll back off of it for now. Thank you for cooperation.

@Marshy
I plan on reading in the next few days. There's only been like 2 pages or so that I haven't read.
 

Kirbyoshi

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@Omni: Why did you grant MarshEE's request (albeit not satisfactory imo) for games in which you've asked the question, but completely ignored Nich multiple times about the same thing?
 

Chaco

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Sorry, I literally got swamped this past week and I apologize for that. Im leaving in a bit, but I'll be home tonight for some time.

Kirby, why don't you like the question? Outline why, please. The question gauges your opinion on players strengths in the game and where your head is at more clearly.

Also, lurking?
 

Kirbyoshi

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I don't like it because it has the same effect as asking who I think is town. If you're scum, you have a very good reason to ask me that question, then NK whoever I answer with, to make me confused/uncomfortable in endgame. You would want to kill whoever I know can consistently get a good read on.
 

Chaco

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Warning: Phone post.

Not to degrade you, but I don't think you'd be important enough to town to gauge my actions as scum off of you.
 

Nicholas1024

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Chaco, I disagree. Any knowledge of that sort is helpful to scum, because confusing any player in lylo is a big advantage for them. Admittedly, kirbyoshi surviving that long isn't as likely as some of the players here, but as he's a weaker player (no offense kirbyoshi), he'd be an easier one to confuse.
 

Omni

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that question is a bit wifom-y. if he's (chaco) town and you're (ky) scum you'd have to think whether or not to list all of some of your scum team and then possibly commit to wanting a pro-town player in your endgame as well.

@Omni: Why did you grant MarshEE's request (albeit not satisfactory imo) for games in which you've asked the question, but completely ignored Nich multiple times about the same thing?
because i like marshy. and because he wasn't asking me to help complete a poor meta that he started. and probably so nich could move on since knowing how stubborn he is (including the saltiness for pegging me as scum in marathon) he would latch onto me for the wrong reasons again.

uhhh

the kirbyoshi part of your kirbybot hydra is significantly less scummy and seems increasingly more helpful. still, i'm not sure what could redeem you (kirbyoshi) givin clownbot's play. what worries me is that you guys are the easy/obvious lynch. take away that single comment clownbot said and i dont think you guys would be the play for toDay.

uhh, can u tell us why you're weary of os, chaco, and frozen in more detail
 

Kirbyoshi

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None taken Nich. I was actually thinking that myself :p It explains why he (if he's scum) would choose to ask me, instead of Tom or Marshy. Heck, or even Omni.

Omni said:
because i like marshy.
Not to be a jerk, but in what sense are you using the word "like" here?

And I'm gonna outline why I'm suspicious of my top 3, prob all in separate posts, so there's no confusion. OS first.
 

Omni

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find enjoyable or agreeable; "I like jogging"; "She likes to read Russian novels"

so in its literal sense
 

Nicholas1024

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Really Omni? So you'll try to thwart my efforts at scumhunting on purely personal reasoning?
 

Chaco

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Chaco, I disagree. Any knowledge of that sort is helpful to scum, because confusing any player in lylo is a big advantage for them. Admittedly, kirbyoshi surviving that long isn't as likely as some of the players here, but as he's a weaker player (no offense kirbyoshi), he'd be an easier one to confuse.
See Omni's post, and my response for elaboration.

that question is a bit wifom-y. if he's (chaco) town and you're (ky) scum you'd have to think whether or not to list all of some of your scum team and then possibly commit to wanting a pro-town player in your endgame as well.
Omni is right, this requires Kirby to take a solid stance on people in this game. As he said it does add a sense of WIFOM, however is also requires Kirby to provide solid reasoning for taking another stance on a player he's already outlined. It leaves little wiggle room as scum, and is more open as a town question. In my opinion.
 

Tom

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btw im glad that when i came back mk was not dead, i thought about that while i was gone and i think i take back what i said about mk

(have yet to read the last 2 days mind you reader)
 

#HBC | Mac

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@tom I was wondering what you found scummy in MK in the first place, well after his little spat with omni atleast

you described my post as dumb. what/who do you find scummy? not about that post just in general
i dont have any strong reads, nothing is popping out to me, which is probably due to me not putting in enough effort

i don't like FF and dont really know why. it has something to do with his post about kirbybot. After people already noted him as a person of interest is when he decided to make a length post on why kirbyoshi is scum.

vand hasn't done anything and it seems like hes coasting.

I'm not getting much from zensei either which is leading me to believe that he's coasting as well

dunno about nich
 

Omni

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im super anxious for a flip. think we milked most of this day for what it's worth

kirbyoshi, full claim. don't waste any more of our time
 

Tom

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um i think we can wait another two days for a lynch

but a claim would be cool
 

Chaco

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I don't have a lot of overly good reads really. Having just come off of a leave, I probably need to read again. I'll do so and get back to you.

Def still down for Kirb though.
 

Kirbyoshi

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Wow. Sorry this took me so long. Here's what I got on OS. Not much, but I have a couple questions...
OS said:
Difficult? When I'm scum I control people like puppets. You can't do that when you're coasting.
I simply don’t like it when people try to meta themselves. If you’re scum here, it makes it worthless at best.

OS said:
Where's your bite, Omni? It's okay to leave a mark.
OS said:
Omni again bites back at the first person to question him.
1. You are stuck in the Freudian oral stage.
2. This seems hypocritical. Care explaining it?

OS said:
Omni, you didn't post a defense. You just said "I disagree, you're tunneling". That's not a defense.
Actually, he posted an ok defense at worst, and you kinda were tunneling.

Also OS, in your ISO posts, you say “meh” alot. Didn’t you call me out on that in a recent game, because it’s such a vague word?

OS said:
Bandwagon +1; not necessarily scummy at this point, but not sure what he's trying to do with the pressure.
How is what you quoted a bandwagon post when I disagreed with the previous main proponent of the “wagon” (which only had one person on it iirc) and brought up things that had not been pointed out yet?

OS said:
So far his actions have been both pro and anti Omni (agreeing with Omni about MKirby, disagreeing with Omni about my remarks), but both have been just a "me too" post.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. I DISagreed with Omni that MKirby had made a satisfactory reply, and the post you quoted that Clownbot made was one I did not agree with, and one he did not clear with me.

OS said:
Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh.
-_-

OS said:
You (MarshEE)and Omni both are playing very poorly for such supposedly good players. :\
The fact that you don’t like someone’s playstyle is not enough to call them scummy.

OS said:
You continually make statements that omit information or are just flat out wrong, then wait for someone to speak, then alter your original intention.
How would you know Omni’s original intention when he didn’t state it to begin with? Being town is all about baiting scum to slip up, and if you outright say your intentions, scum will deliberately either come up with a reason to not answer it, or be extremely careful when they answer, so they don’t slip up. Stating intentions along with question is bad.

So yeah, I withdraw my suspicion of OS, at least until he answers my questions/statements about his play.
 

Kirbyoshi

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I guess Chaco really needs no ISO post. The question he asked me I could see having scummy intentions behind it, and I'd like to hear him give opinions a little more. Frozen post coming.
 

Omni

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kirbyoshi,

please stop dragging this out. full claim now. it is essential that you do so and give us enough time to talk before the deadline. i appreciate your attack on OS but most of what you just brought up is old news. so as soon as possible:

1.) claim
2.) tell us your top 3 lynch candidates in order

@edit: oh, these are your top 3 lynch candidates. that's fine. make sure you claim after your post on Frozen
 
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