[M-1, 10, 13] Taco City Takeout: Game Over

[Swiss]

Lol...you unvoted me for the smaller reason. But it saves the day I suppose.

Seriously though, never post a vote like that unless you are 100% convinced. Not only did I nearly have a heart attack, it could have lost the game AND makes you look scummy. (If you are Yak at the end of this game...)

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

EBWOP (misread your post)

But it would've been better off for you to claim Vanilla, rather than me, because you wouldn't be in this mess you're in.

 

[Swiss]

Ooooh. I SEE.

I totally didn't understand what you meant.


Yeah, I figured you would understand that....how didn't you?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Either way, you're at L-2.

You see, I was, and may still be, 100% convinced. The only reason I unvoted is so I can get Zensei's (A.K.A the rest of the town's) opinion on this.

 

[Swiss]

Hold up....


How did you not know a regular taco was vanilla? It DOES say this in your role PM, yes?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I'm not saying I didn't. THEY didn't.

 

[Swiss]

Right. Ok. We're on the same page now.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Yes.

Now, all I'm waiting for is Zensei's opinion on all of this.

 

[Swiss]

Also, what would you say to the possibility that: you are scum and wanted to find an excuse to vote me, hoping that a townie would jump on, sealing the deal.

 

[Swiss]

By this I mean that you are working alone, and have no scum mate.

 

[Xivii]

I think with the logistics, it is likely that that is true. Can we rule out the possibility they re both telling the truth? No.

I just can't see why Chibo would be scum. Other than him not being NK'd - which is just WIFOM from scum.



And also Chibo voted me. This means if there are two scum, one of us has to be scum - or we're about to lose.

I agree with that if there are two scum then one of you (Swiss or Chibo) is likely to be scum.
If you were both town then the 2 scum would join in with Chibo, lynch you and win the game. However there is the possibility the both scum have not been online at the same time to do so or that there is only 1 scum. Gordito is looking mad scummy going off of both of those scenarios, seeing as he unvoted after and said he mis read. To me that looks like he was just trying to get the quicklynch and unvoted since no one else hopped on.

Swiss if there are two scum and you believe that either you or Chibo is scum, then why is it that you do not think Chibo is scum?? Looking pretty contradictory to me.

Either way, you're at L-2.

You see, I was, and may still be, 100% convinced. The only reason I unvoted is so I can get Zensei's (A.K.A the rest of the town's) opinion on this.

What do you mean "the rest of town"? The only way you would know my alignment for sure is through a PR or you are scum. And you claim not to have the first.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@Zen
Frozen said that Chibo's argument was good.

Chibo initiated the argument.

I already made my decision about Swiss.

What I meant by rest of town, is that everybody else has had a voice in the argument.

I wasn't looking for the quicklynch. I didn't see you or Frozen online, and Swiss WAS online. I voted him because I wanted him to talk. And I guess I overread this and its contradiction:

And also Chibo voted me. This means if there are two scum, one of us has to be scum - or we're about to lose.

 

[Xivii]

I suppose that makes sense.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@Swiss

No. Nobody was online at the time that I voted you, except for you. So obviously, I wasn't just looking for the quicklynch.

So ultimately, no, I don't think I can be solo scum looking for the quicklynch.

 

[Swiss]

Btw guys it is possible to hide your online status, which is very useful for scum (and town 2bh).

 

[Swiss]

Swiss if there are two scum and you believe that either you or Chibo is scum, then why is it that you do not think Chibo is scum?? Looking pretty contradictory to me.

I'm not sure there ARE two scum. Hence why I was asking about the Yak to Gordito.


If there were a two man scum team, I'm sure they would have lynched me.


Re-reading...but I decided to trust him early on.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Christ is this game confusing. >_<

Swiss's reaction to getting to L-1 just screams town to me, but I HATE buying into AtE/Emotional stuff like that to solidify reads because it's the easiest way to dupe people.

This makes me think that its currently 4v1 with a 1 shot maf recuiter, which would TYPICALLY be a yak, but once I thought about it some more a yak would be really tricky in this setup. Like what happens if he tries to yak someone who I shrink? Or what if he had attempted to yak Chibo? Would the yak just straight up suicide and town wins? That's seems like a pretty BS setup to me, unless the mod deliberately modified the yak role to like, just not go off if the person was immune to recruitment or something. All of which just makes me think that there ISN'T a yak.

Which means that there could just be a good with a one time recruit that doesn't involve suiciding which effectively puts us in LYLO but without the "voting for someone and not insta losing means at least one person is scum" rule.

Or these anti-recruitment roles are a big ****ing troll/red herring and we just a basic 2 man scum team. Not really so inclined to believe this though. Because 2 anti recruitment roles in a game with no recruiter is like a big middle finger from the mod.

So right now I'm thinking we have just 1 scum left who has a one shot recruit ability or something but ISN'T a yak. This means that the "voting for someone and not insta losing means at least one person is scum" isn't in effect since we probably only have one scum. So if TWO people vote for someone and we don't lose (if the votes are on for awhile) someone in that group of three is scum.

Can't decide between Zensei or gordito for who scum is. Zensei has been so bleh the whole game and it really bothers me. I can't really explain it though and I won't vote until I actually can explain it.

Sorry for the confused post but this game is seriously throwing me for a loop.

 

[Swiss]

K. Re-read. I'm sticking with Chibo is telling the truth.


Gordito - in your 473 you decided to no vote...Why was this?

Also, Rockin (confirmed townie) was then NK'd, after you pretty much saved his life, do you think this makes you look more pro town?

Had he been lynched (in which your vote would have been instrumental) town would now be in a far worse situation - was this planned by you to help us out, as you felt he was town, or just a by product of cautiousness?

 

[Swiss]

And a response to the bottom of Zen's 571, please. You did just call him town, confirmed town.

 

[Swiss]

@ Zen - I just looked through the last two pages of 40. I haven't seen any real stances or opinions from you. A couple of points...but a lot of inactivity and "I like his case on him" and posts which don't really open any doors for us. Would you agree you fit the mould of the lurking scum?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Post 473:

I'm gonna stay with no vote. Oh well :/. I guess we'll see what happens at night.

I did this because I wasn't too sure about my suspicion on Chibo. And I didn't want to do anything that I didn't feel confident about.

I don't think it makes me anymore pro town that I saved him. I never planned on voting Rockin in the first place. And even though it seemed like everybody was against him, I didn't want to just jump on the wagon. I hate just jumping on the wagon.

@FF

I don't think that you should just believe somebody because of AtE. They need to be able to provide evidence as to why somebody else is more scummy.

And Swiss, your last question to Zen is legit.

 

[Xivii]

@ Zen - I just looked through the last two pages of 40. I haven't seen any real stances or opinions from you. A couple of points...but a lot of inactivity and "I like his case on him" and posts which don't really open any doors for us. Would you agree you fit the mould of the lurking scum?

I thought I've been clear on my stances.

Right now I think the best choice for today would be Chibo or Gordito.

 

[Xivii]

Your last question is pretty trappy. Yes, scum could actively lurk. But no I am not doing such. I'm generally pretty busy. But I've been trying to be more active since D1.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

What about Chibo and me is scummy?

What about Swiss and FF do you find not scummy?

 

[Swiss]

Gordito you didn't answer what Zen (and then I) asked.

Zen you didn't follow him up on a possible scum slip.

 

[Xivii]

What about Chibo and me is scummy?

What about Swiss and FF do you find not scummy?

I'm not necessarily saying they aren't scummy, I'm saying that I think you and Chibo are more scummy/are the safest choice to me. You basically summed up why I find Chibo suspicious. He starts the day focusing on the set up, claims out right and we have been playing off that since. Now Frozen is claiming that he has a role that can protect anyone from being recruited. Either one (or both of them) is lying or this game is revolves around a recruit type of thing. I think it's fair to rule out a Yak (based on the reasoning Frozen stated) and a cult (other wise there wouldn't be NKs unless there was a SK. If there was a SK then why so much focus on recruiting?). A mafia recruiter that can recruit or kill makes the most sense to me. Though I have never heard of that kind of role until this game. But nothing else seems to fit together. The fact that Chibo made an early claim and got everyone on the set up makes me think that may be a recruiter and by making that gambit early in the game would put him in the clear. Now that Frozen is saying that he has a role like that makes me think this even more. There's also a chance that Frozen is lying however and trying to sway everyone the wrong way. Chibo just seems more scummy to me. Along with the previous points I've made and that you pointed out earlier, I noticed Chibo has floated by questions adressed to him multiple times during this game. And when he post, they are often little one lined comments here like he is just trying to keep his presence around. Also in his #423 he voted Frozen with very bad reasoning after Swiss voted for Frozen also with bad reasoning.
I don't like the way he has been playing at all. And as I'm re reading through things I'm even more confident that Chibo should be lynched today.

Vote: Chibo

As for my suspicions on you Gordito, it's more of a hunch. I don't really have solid evidence. I just see you as more scummy than the other two.

Gordito you didn't answer what Zen (and then I) asked.

Zen you didn't follow him up on a possible scum slip.

He already answered it.

 

[CT Chia]

What makes you think one or both of Frozen and I are lying?

Don't you understand my reason for why I claimed so early and talked about the setup?
We had 0 idea and hints about the setup. In that case, you normally don't need to discuss it unless there's knowledge of it - knowledge I had. Playing with a mafia recruiter is A LOT different than playing with just a regular scum team, and the towns play can change because of it so I claimed early to provide the town the info to make our play appropriate. If you must know why I thought to do this also, check out Chrono Trigger Mafia. Now that I think about it though, a public version hasn't been made yet since it was held in a Back Room. Long story short, the scum was a mafia recruiter. Town didn't find out until like Day 3 or 4 when a lot of damage had been caused already and someone says, yea I knew about the recruiter because of my role (which was similar to patriot), and perhaps should have told the town at the beginning.

 

[Xivii]

Do you believe that we have changed our play appropriately? And how so? I do not see any benefit your claim has caused. This whole game we have been focusing on the set up and that's it.

 

[CT Chia]

I've commented on any scum tells and such as I've seen em, and have tried to use the setup initially to kick off scumhunting.

This whole game we have been focusing on the set up and that's it.

Then do something about it?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I'm sorry Swiss. Are you referring to this question?

What do you mean "the rest of town"? The only way you would know my alignment for sure is through a PR or you are scum. And you claim not to have the first.

To which I answered with this:

Frozen said that Chibo's argument was good.

Chibo initiated the argument.

I already made my decision about Swiss.

What I meant by rest of town, is that everybody else has had a voice in the argument.

If not, please restate the question. I'm sorry.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

If I'm not mistaken, Chibo and Swiss are at L-2, right?

 

[Xiivi]

Swiss (1) - ChiboSempai
ChiboSempai (1) - Zensei
Not Voting (3) - GorditoBoy69, frozenflame751, Swiss

 

[Swiss]

I'm sorry Swiss. Are you referring to this question?



To which I answered with this:



If not, please restate the question. I'm sorry.

Entirely my fault - blame the laptop screen.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

At this point I can't shake my unease about Zensei.

Vote: Zensei

I'm REALLY hoping we don't have a 2 man scumteam and just have a solo scum with some form of one shot recruit. If that's the case we still have a chance even if Zensei isn't scum if I can out guess the scumbag.

Gordito is a close second for scum pick but I would definitely be more comfortable with him in endgame which we would get if scum NK's again and doesn't recruit (2 T v 1 scum) or if they try to just recruit and fail (3 T v 1 scum). Of course this is all assuming there is just one scum and we don't get alpha striked on Zensei.

But yeah Zensei just is way too background for me to be comfortable with him around any longer. reminds me of Mister Eric from Newbie 3 I think it was, but not nearly as non-existant. Similar in principal though and I don't want someone I can't get a read on around in (hopeful) endgame.

But ultimately hopefully my gut is just right and Zensei flips scum FTW.

 

[Swiss]

At this point I can't shake my unease about Zensei.

Vote: Zensei

I'm REALLY hoping we don't have a 2 man scumteam and just have a solo scum with some form of one shot recruit. If that's the case we still have a chance even if Zensei isn't scum if I can out guess the scumbag.

Gordito is a close second for scum pick but I would definitely be more comfortable with him in endgame which we would get if scum NK's again and doesn't recruit (2 T v 1 scum) or if they try to just recruit and fail (3 T v 1 scum). Of course this is all assuming there is just one scum and we don't get alpha striked on Zensei.

But yeah Zensei just is way too background for me to be comfortable with him around any longer. reminds me of Mister Eric from Newbie 3 I think it was, but not nearly as non-existant. Similar in principal though and I don't want someone I can't get a read on around in (hopeful) endgame.

But ultimately hopefully my gut is just right and Zensei flips scum FTW.

FFS.

I was hoping you would say the opposite.

To me, although he's been background, his push on Chibo (a lynch that neither me, you or Chibo would go for - making it an IMPOSSIBLE lynch - seemed pro town by the fact it is massively anti scum).


As for Gordito - I just don't like how he survived the NK yesterday - I called him "obv town" yet he didn't die (I did try to bait the NK). WHY have the two 'confirmed townies' survived? How much WIFOM can one game have?

Zen has NOT been pro town in his activity and other areas, I'll agree there, but I just don't see scumminess from him ('nor actual scumminess from Gordito, to be fair). The signs point towards Gordito as the scum to me (solo scum as I said before, etc etc) but with the amount of WIFOM the scum is throwing at us, I could easily see this just being more WIFOM and Zen as the scum.


If scum recruit successfully tonight and we mislynch - we lose.
[Town] V [Scum]

4 V 1 - Now

3 V 1 - Mislynch

2 V 2 - Recruit

Assuming one scum, which is a given, imo.


Chibo - I understand that you find me scummy, and not the most pro town player here - but would you consider swapping to another lynch?


We have to assume scum will recruit correctly tonight.

 

[Xiivi]

Swiss (1) - ChiboSempai
ChiboSempai (1) - Zensei
Zensei (1) - frozenflame751
Not Voting (2) - GorditoBoy69, Swiss

 

[Xivii]

Flame I don't know how to be any less background.. Why is it that you are voting for me now for being in the "background" when I'm more active and clear with my positions than I was earlier in the game? It looks to me like you've been set on voting me all a long, yet you were hesitant earlier. I'd understand if you had reasons other than me sitting in the background, but I've strictly focused on making my points clear since being accused of not doing so. Your vote on me now just seems odd.

 

[Xivii]

Swiss what are your thoughts on who should be lynched?

 

[CT Chia]

I doubt that I'm willing to switch.

Swiss' drilling into FF's role is the biggest scumtell I've seen today. Right or wrong, I'm gonna roll with it unless something better comes up but I doubt it.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@Swiss

So, just because you tried to lure my NK, I'm scum? The scum probably had more of a reason to kill Rockin than me.

@Frozen

I'm not saying your opinion is wrong. Your opinion is your opinion. But you could've voted him a long time ago for inactivity. And I guess it's acceptable for you to not want to just keep second guessing yourself.

@Chibo

When you say switch, you mean switch votes, right? Just making sure.