[M-1, 10, 13] Taco City Takeout: Game Over

[#HBC | Gorf]

Wat. Because there are 5 people left and it isn't game over means there MUST be 2 scum? Wat? That makes NO sense. There could easily be a solo yakuza + an indy perhaps, or maybe just a yak. Not saying 2 man scum team doesn't make sense but how the hell do you know that for sure? You seem to know a hell of a lot gordito. Mad scummy ****.

I said that there has to be at least two scum left. Maybe there's a solo scum and one indy. But it's best for town to assume that there's two scum left, just so we're extra careful.

Why would we give Zensei a free pass to have the luxury of claiming last? Trying to help your scumbuddy out maybe?

Cuz, unless you want to wait three days for his claim, then be my guest. I personally want to see what you have to claim and what Zen have to claim mostly. I want to see Swiss' claim too, but not so much.

How do you "not mind"? Having everyone go first and giving someone a free after the fact position completely undermines the concept of a mass claim. Plus it's not like claiming early is going to let us move on faster because the whole point is to have EVERY player claim and see all the other claims so that CC's can happen if applicable and so that we have the maximum amount of information to work with before to proceed, especially in LYLO or likely LYLO.

I don't mind because, as long as the game MOVES, then I'm cool.

The only order of claim I'm really concerned about is yours. I want to see what you have to say.

I'm not claiming 'till Zensei gets back and that's final.

And I guess that we're not claiming until then.

And if you didn't notice, yes. I did claim in my last post. To get you off of my d*** about knowing too much.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I said that there has to be at least two scum left. Maybe there's a solo scum and one indy. But it's best for town to assume that there's two scum left, just so we're extra careful.

This is fine. The way you worded it before made it really sound like you knew there were 2 SCUM for sure.

And if you didn't notice, yes. I did claim in my last post. To get you off of my d*** about knowing too much.

Alright well that would explain it I guess.

Ok so here's what we have:

Chibo: Steak Taco - Patriot

Gordito: Regular Taco

Swiss: ???

Zensei: ???

Me: ???

Since I'm in the lead point wise for claiming, it comes down to Chibo's vote to solidify whether or not I go first or Zensei goes first.

So Chibo its your call. If you want me to claim now I will. Or you can pick Zensei first and I'll claim after he does when he comes back.

 

[CT Chia]

rly doesnt matter to me

u might as well claim then ff since ur here now and he can discuss more without slowing the game down more

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Alrighty then.

I'm a Volcano Taco, and I'm the Town Shrink. My ability is to target one player each night and protect them from being recruited.

I targeted Riddle N1 and Swiss N2.

Swiss you might as well just claim next since no one wants to wait for Zensei. =/

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

There are two possibilities:

FF can be telling the truth, assuring that Chibo's telling the truth about his claim.

Or, that FF can be lying, and trying to cover Chibo's (his possible scummate's) back, which would mean two scum being FF and Chibo.

As of right now, I believe the former. But I'll have to wait for Swiss' and Zensei's claim to get a 100% assurance on the matter.

 

[Swiss]

Regular Taco i.e. brownie townie


Frozen, your power also means that you can't be recruited - doesn't it? You worded it a bit oddly.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

No, I do not have passive protection from recruitment.

My only power is every night I can pick one person to protect from recruitment. My role does not explicitly state that I cannot protect myself so I imagine I probably could. However, unless I were to protect myself on a given night, I would not naturally be immune to recruitment.

Gordito I find your reaction to my claim, or at least how you associate it with Chibo's slightly peculiar. When Chibo first claimed I was wondering why a mod would put a Shrink AND a Patriot in such a small game together. Seemed like overkill on the recruitment protection IMO.

At the moment I still wanna believe Chibo but that notion has been bugging me ever since he claimed. =/

Alright so updated role list:


Ok so here's what we have:

Chibo: Steak Taco - Patriot

Gordito: Regular Taco

Swiss: Regular Taco

Zensei: ???

Me: Volcano Taco - Shrink

 

[Swiss]

To be fair to Chibo..if scum are able to recruit EVERY night, we'd need both of these power roles to make it even.

 

[CT Chia]

Chaco can you please update the player list in the OP with whos dead and their exact flips?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Well, what Swiss said.

AND, what I'm saying, is that if you are in fact telling the truth, then it'd be very hard for Chibo to come up with such a great lie.

And if you're lieing, then it's obvious that you're trying to cover up for Chibo.

If the latter is true, then I'm sure that Chibo is either:

A) Scum buddies with FF the entire time.
B) A Scum recruiter, who recruited FF.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

To be fair to Chibo..if scum are able to recruit EVERY night, we'd need both of these power roles to make it even.

Right, and if we hadn't been seeing NKs, which would suggest a recruiter that can recruit every night as opposed to something like a "you pick NK vs. recruit" type role, then I would be MUCH less skeptical of Chibo's claim since yeah, having a patriot and a shrink would be pretty much necessary to keep it fair in a game this small.

@ Gordito: How is me claiming shrink a compliment to Chibo's claim of Patriot? If anything, based on what we've seen so far (i.e. Nightkills), it is unlikely that we're dealing with a scum that can recruit every night, which would make having a shrink and a patriot pretty overkill IMO as anti-recruitment defense. So can you explain how exactly me claiming a role that undermines the likelyhood of Chibo actually being a patriot would be a good way for me as his alleged scum buddy to help "cover for him"? If anything I think I've done the opposite lol.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Hell, there can even be a possibility of you being the scum recruiter, and trying to hide behind Chibo's claim.

Ultimately, what I'm saying is that Chibo came out with his claim very early in the game. That claim implied that there was a mafia recruiter. It takes a lot of luck to say Patriot, and have it backed up.

Now, maybe this scum recruiter is alone. Maybe this scum recruiter has the ability to NK every night and recruit ONCE. He'll want to wait for tonight to do it. So that if we mislynch, he recruits and Mafia wins.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Or maybe (I just realized this, and idk if this is what you were talking about Frozen, but it's what I'm now leaning on), just maybe, Chibo is the mafia recruiter. MAYBE he claimed Patriot because it's a role that would be seen in a game like this. Frozen, I think I believe you when you say you're town shrink. And I think you're right. It'd be too much to have a non recruitable role and a doctor equivilant role.

 

[Swiss]

Hm.

Waiting on Zen's claim then, I suppose.

Assuming 2 man scum team

Gordito - What do you think of Frozen's claim working upon the assumption Chibo is town?
What do you think of Chibo's claim working upon the assumption Frozen is town?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

If Chibo is being honest about his claim and is in fact town, then Frozen would be using Chibo's claim to hide. It's an easy way of saying hey, I have a role that has to do with mafia recruiting too.

If Frozen is being honest about his claim and is in fact town, then it definitely means that Chibo's the Mafia Recruiter. He detered us from possibly thinking he's scum by pretending to be against the role he actually is.

I'm believing the latter. Same question to you.

 

[Xivii]

Back. Didn't have a CPU. I don't think me claiming before anyone would really matter anyways since I don't have a counter claim. I am a Regular Taco.

Confirmed Roles
X1-12, Creampuff- Cop/Doc
Riddle, Regular Taco
Rockin, Regular Taco

Claims
Chibo: Steak Taco - Patriot
Gordito: Regular Taco
Swiss: Regular Taco
Zensei: Regular Taco
Frozen: Volcano Taco - Shrink

If all claims were true that would mean 5 vanilla, 1 patriot, 1 shrink, 1 doc/cop. Obviously this is not the case otherwise we wouldn't be playing mafia. The only things I can deduct from this all are based on WIFOM though...

 

[CT Chia]

Vote Swiss

thats what im gonna go with

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

And you really have no backup for that vote, aside from a hunch?

 

[CT Chia]

No I do, was waiting for someone to ask or hopefully someone else post about their thoughts without mine influencing theirs lol

I don't wanna vote Zensei as he's the last VT that claimed, which can be a ballsy move after so many VTs so I don't think he would lie.
FF's gambit is also a ballsy move and I semi believe it for now, but the thing is if he's not lying, he's good to keep around for a lil longer
I picked Swiss being one of the two remaining people, and most of all asking FF if he's able to protect himself. Why? Because if he's a recruiter of some sort and he want's to know that for his ability to recruit someone. If FF had said no, then FF was a guaranteed person that Swiss could recruit (providing FF wasn't lying, but Swiss doesn't know that).

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

No I do, was waiting for someone to ask or hopefully someone else post about their thoughts without mine influencing theirs lol

I don't wanna vote Zensei as he's the last VT that claimed, which can be a ballsy move after so many VTs so I don't think he would lie.
FF's gambit is also a ballsy move and I semi believe it for now, but the thing is if he's not lying, he's good to keep around for a lil longer
I picked Swiss being one of the two remaining people, and most of all asking FF if he's able to protect himself. Why? Because if he's a recruiter of some sort and he want's to know that for his ability to recruit someone. If FF had said no, then FF was a guaranteed person that Swiss could recruit (providing FF wasn't lying, but Swiss doesn't know that).

The bolded is an exceptionally good point. I didn't even realize that.

Well provided we don't get alpha strike'd anytime soon, operating under the assumption that we're in lylo it's safe to then assume that either Swiss or Chibo is scum, and I'm more inclined to believe it is Chibo over Swiss.

3 power roles for a 8 player game sounds pretty legit so I'm believing Chibo's claim more again.

Why isn't Zensei the play today is my question. Like, I really don't have a good read on him at all and it's bothering me.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

EBWOP: I'm more inclined to believe it is Swiss that is scum over Chibo.

No idea how I botched that so badly.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Wow. Good s*** Chibo.

You're both making a good point. I hate to leave my ground, because so much history in the game leads it to be you, Chibo. But Swiss could be the recruiter, and had FF said no, then he'd definitely be a target for recruiting.

A 3 PR - 4VT - Mafia recruiter setup doesn't sound too unbalanced.

Frozen, remember when you were wondering why I knew what a regular townie was, and then I ended up claiming? My question to Swiss is, why didn't you step up and defend me, or in another sense, yourself as a regular taco, when FF was questioning it? Maybe you were unsure?

I hate to say it, but I'm inclined to believe Chibo.

Once, again, good s***, Chibo.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Gordito's question @ Swiss is legit.

@ Gordito what game history do you think points to Chibo as scum. You've been hung up on him all game but I can't really piece together why exactly you think the game history suggests he's scum, other than his attempts and success as hammering?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Gordito's question @ Swiss is legit.

@ Gordito what game history do you think points to Chibo as scum. You've been hung up on him all game but I can't really piece together why exactly you think the game history suggests he's scum, other than his attempts and success as hammering?

Here's what I see:

Chibo, for two days in a row, Chibo tried to get the last vote in for the lynch.

Riddle was suspicious of Chibo, as well as Rockin. And, they were both NK'd.

X1 and Rockin have something in common, as well as a big difference: Chibo had the lynching vote on both, but Rockin's lynch was too late, thank god.

Steak Taco sure does sound to me like a pretty convincing type of taco to be in the game. And maybe he's pulled the wool over our shoulders.

I'm gonna be as blunt as possible when I say this: As of now, I'm almost 100% sure that Chibo's scum. And if anybody's ready, I'm cool to lynch him (unless of course some more information comes out, but it'll take a lot to convince me that he is, in fact, not scum).

That's what I meant by the evidence is against him. But honestly, I want to see what Swiss has to say about all of this before we move on.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

The fact that he hammered is not as big of an issue personally. It's the fact that he was the (well, tried to be the) hammer twice. And both of the prople who were against him were NK'd.

My original plan was to lynch Chibo. If that didn't work, I wanted to be the NK, and have you guys see that he's obviously scum. But as I said up there, I'm not so sure yet. I want to see what Swiss has to say.

What he says will almost likely sway my decision on who to vote.

 

[Xivii]

^I agree with this. I'm finding Chibo to be quite suspicious as well, but I'm liking his case on Swiss.

 

[Swiss]

I picked Swiss being one of the two remaining people, and most of all asking FF if he's able to protect himself. Why? Because if he's a recruiter of some sort and he want's to know that for his ability to recruit someone. If FF had said no, then FF was a guaranteed person that Swiss could recruit (providing FF wasn't lying, but Swiss doesn't know that).

Lol..this backfires majorly.

OK. The case on me is because of this.

Let's look at why I posted this.

I gave Frozen the opportunity to lie. I wanted him to say that he COULD NOT be recruited, all he had to do was alter the wording of his role PM to us and it majorly limits any recruiting that can be done by the mafia.

If he'd said yes, and gone along with it, then assuming he was town now I'd kno neither he nor Chibo could be recruited tonight. So scum lie in myself,Gordito and Zen. If two are scum they will obv recruit the last of us as they do not think Frozen CAN be recruited. This increases Frozen's chances of successfully blocking scum majorly, as it reduces his people to protect by one, AND reduced the options open to the mafia by one.


I do not think that if I were mafia (and Frozen town) the post affords any great reward.

 

[Swiss]

Frozen protects old:
Frozen
Swiss
Gordito
Zen


Frozen protects new:
Swiss
Gordito
Zen



Scum recruit old:
Frozen
Swiss
Gordito
Zen


Scum recruit new:
Swiss
Gordito
Zen

 

[Swiss]

Frozen, remember when you were wondering why I knew what a regular townie was, and then I ended up claiming? My question to Swiss is, why didn't you step up and defend me, or in another sense, yourself as a regular taco, when FF was questioning it? Maybe you were unsure?

Same reason no-one else did. It's always useful to see if people crack under the pressure. If you'd been scum guessing you could easily have outed yourself. Deending you when you weren't gonna be lynched didn't really seem that pro town. (That and it genuinely didn't occur to me that I should speak up, lmao)

 

[Swiss]

If Chibo is being honest about his claim and is in fact town, then Frozen would be using Chibo's claim to hide. It's an easy way of saying hey, I have a role that has to do with mafia recruiting too.

If Frozen is being honest about his claim and is in fact town, then it definitely means that Chibo's the Mafia Recruiter. He detered us from possibly thinking he's scum by pretending to be against the role he actually is.

I'm believing the latter. Same question to you.

I think with the logistics, it is likely that that is true. Can we rule out the possibility they re both telling the truth? No.

I just can't see why Chibo would be scum. Other than him not being NK'd - which is just WIFOM from scum.



And also Chibo voted me. This means if there are two scum, one of us has to be scum - or we're about to lose.

@ Chibo - how are you so sure? You could easily have thrown the game away there, when we still have so much left to talk about.

Just because I've been open about if I trust you, doesn't mean you can throw votes around recklessly and be acting pro town.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Swiss. You're jumping back and forth on opinions.

First you defend Chibo thick and thin. You keep saying that he's NOT scum.

But then at the end of your last post, you're saying that he's just trying to act pro town. No.

And you don't think it helps town AT ALL for me to 100% clear my name, by confirming Regular Taco's alignment before Chaco did? Now, instead of wasting a possible lynch on me, you have the opprotunity to focus on more important people.

Swiss, I think you've just proven Chibo right. And I think I feel safe doing this:

Vote: Swiss

Yes. That puts you in L-1. Now, unless somebody quickhammers, I hope for your sake that you can talk me out of voting you.

 

[Swiss]

Because I DON'T think he's scum.

Does NOT mean he is acting PRO TOWN.


I was telling him to THINK MORE. WILL HAND THE GA,E

UNVOTE NOW. YOU WILL HAND THE GAME AWAY.

 

[Swiss]

And my speaking up WOULDN'T have confirmed you in ANY way, except to yourself!

Why aren't you voting Zen for the SAME reason?

Think man!


UNVOTE

 

[Swiss]

Just because I've been open about if I trust you, doesn't mean you can throw votes around recklessly and be acting pro town.

First you defend Chibo thick and thin. You keep saying that he's NOT scum.

But then at the end of your last post, you're saying that he's just trying to act pro town. No.

See? I say that even though I HAVE been defending him, reckelssly throwing around votes IS NOT pro town. I DID NOT say "he's just trying to act pro town"



Bro, you cannot have read that post more than once if you made such a fundamental reading error in it then made a GAME CHANGING decision on it.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Actually, it was very pro town to bring up all of that crap about you.

And it brought on the pressure that I needed to solidify my vote.

He, with the help of Frozen made me realize that it's ultimately a 3 PR/4 VT/ 1 Mafia Recruiter game. And I'm not just going by a hunch. I'm almost certain.

If you really were town aligned, then you wouldn't just want to hide behind everything while FF rants about all of the Regular Taco alignment stuff. You'd jump at the fact that there's a way to clear your name.

But, I want to hear Zen's overall thought, and then I'll determine where my vote goes.

Unvote

 

[Swiss]

Wait, are you telling me you DELIBERATELY misunderstood that?

If a scum had been online the game would have been OVER.

NEVER do that.

 

[Swiss]

If you really were town aligned, then you wouldn't just want to hide behind everything while FF rants about all of the Regular Taco alignment stuff. You'd jump at the fact that there's a way to clear your name.

But there WASN'T a way to clear my name. All I'd be doing was claiming Vanilla. I'd have just confirmed I didn't have a power role and increased the chanced of a town power role dying in the night.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

You got me with the Zen talk.

He's been quiet WAY too much.

And @Zen, I want to hear your opinion come from your text, how you think everything is going, especially after Swiss talked. It won't take that much to convince me that I'm overthinking, but it can take that same amount to turn it around on you.

 

[Swiss]

And like I say, it was VERY useful for me to get a read on YOU.

You may be confirmed townie to yourself, but I needed to see how YOU would react.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Way to ninja me there Swiss lol.

I didn't realize that this entire time you were claiming Vanilla.

I was, and might still be, convinced that you're scum. The ONLY reason I unvoted you was because you mentioned Zensei.