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I'd argue that, aside from running speed, Doc is actually faster than diddy and has a much better recovery (being that it isn't super obvious and safe to mix up). Plus, He has much more landing options than Diddy. BTW, where I'm from Doc gets results.
Results are certainly nice and are valid, but sometimes they aren't everything. The #1 player in BC is a DDD main, and I think DDD is still low tier. I think Doc is a bottom mid tier myself with fantastic frame data and killig, but recovery is really detrimental and lacks movement, also suffers from Mario almost being a straight upgrade.
Because he has no bad matchups. Last time I saw the match up chart in the Yoshi section it was laughably bad. Doesn't seem so bad now but the point about Yoshi is he has ridiculous combos, a ridiculous nuetral, a ridiculous camping game, a great recovery, and multiple options for every situation. His down throw is basically always a 50 50, and his command grab is by far one of the best in the game.
MonkeyArms
?
If we would stop counting difficulty ofsome techs in, then Shulk with his lag cancel invincibility frames MALLC be pretty ****ing monster.So I know this is an older topic but merits discussion, and I feel it is pivotal to Luigi placing outside of top 8: how the heck do you jumpless cyclone? I can't. I know, mash the button 12/sec and that is probably the hardest technique to perform in the game. But a few people can do it. Concon, Boss, ...maybe
Actually, like this post only if you CAN do it, I want a gist on how many people can or if the list is just that small. Furthermore, to anyone who can, please post your tips.
Really, Luigi's jumpless cyclone will shave many stocks through gimps, and save many stocks to recover.
I almost feel annoyed at how my Luigi feels stagnant (literally) without this important tech.
MonkeyArms can sorta do it, But you're gonna tell me you're gonna whoop my ass like that and then say you can't do a Luigi tech I still CAN do??! We need to Lab together.So I know this is an older topic but merits discussion, and I feel it is pivotal to Luigi placing outside of top 8: how the heck do you jumpless cyclone? I can't. I know, mash the button 12/sec and that is probably the hardest technique to perform in the game. But a few people can do it. Concon, Boss, ...maybe
Actually, like this post only if you CAN do it, I want a gist on how many people can or if the list is just that small. Furthermore, to anyone who can, please post your tips.
Really, Luigi's jumpless cyclone will shave many stocks through gimps, and save many stocks to recover.
I almost feel annoyed at how my Luigi feels stagnant (literally) without this important tech.
Woah, you can pull off jumpless cyclones too? Crazy, gotta show me some stuff with that. I feel I got a good enough understanding of everything else but the jumpless cyclone...and perfect pivots but that's 2nd on my list.
I can almost always gain horizortal recovery with it, I gimp with it about 2/5ths of the time (the hitlag glitch messes me up a bit), and I can gain vertical recovery when I'm REALLY FEELING IT. (about 1/10th of the time but still.)So I know this is an older topic but merits discussion, and I feel it is pivotal to Luigi placing outside of top 8: how the heck do you jumpless cyclone? I can't. I know, mash the button 12/sec and that is probably the hardest technique to perform in the game. But a few people can do it. Concon, Boss, ...maybe
Actually, like this post only if you CAN do it, I want a gist on how many people can or if the list is just that small. Furthermore, to anyone who can, please post your tips.
Really, Luigi's jumpless cyclone will shave many stocks through gimps, and save many stocks to recover.
I almost feel annoyed at how my Luigi feels stagnant (literally) without this important tech.
aaaaand ConCon is in losers...Damnit. I love seeing nerf'd characters win anyway, like it just would've been nice.
Definitely charizards down tilt.
So you can snap to the ledge without waiting for the double jump's many frames before you can snap to end? Seems pretty great to me.
It's the windbox. I've had tons of this occurrence with Mac's F-smash (which also has a windbox). Persumably, Luigi's traction made it so that he slides extremely far.
No its similar to an instant ledge getup where the characters model hits the floor so he/she lands instead of carrying vertical momentum.
Anything ZSS can do to you, you can do to her. Not to mention Luigi should have plenty of counters to what she's good at.
I'd reccomend mapping one of your buttons into an additional B button. Because you'll likely mash alot.Hey guys. So I'm a Shulk player looking at picking up a secondary to handle the matchups I have a bad time with - generally the quick guys like Falcon, ZSS, Greninja. It would be nice to play someone who's frame data isn't horrendous, and I like Luigi. I think he could be what I'm after.
Obviously you can't paint all matchups as the same, but in general, how do you guys think Luigi does against fast characters? I'm thinking that on one hand, his movement is slow, but as far as I'm aware he has the frame data to contend.
If I decide to run with him, are there any worthwhile resources around for me to look at? I'm not really sure what follows into what, what good approaches are... stuff like that. If there's anything that's already done the hard yards it'd be immensely helpful. If not, then to Training Mode it is
I mostly use my Y button for it, since I only jump with X.
Just gotta keep practicing and attempting to get the jumpless rise. I'm finally able to get a very nice rise near consistently now (compared to either a minimal rise or non-frequent high rises before) and that happened because I'd just try getting the rise out of boredom while in training.So I know this is an older topic but merits discussion, and I feel it is pivotal to Luigi placing outside of top 8: how the heck do you jumpless cyclone? I can't. I know, mash the button 12/sec and that is probably the hardest technique to perform in the game. But a few people can do it. Concon, Boss, ...maybe
Actually, like this post only if you CAN do it, I want a gist on how many people can or if the list is just that small. Furthermore, to anyone who can, please post your tips.
Really, Luigi's jumpless cyclone will shave many stocks through gimps, and save many stocks to recover.
I almost feel annoyed at how my Luigi feels stagnant (literally) without this important tech.
I label sheik as "honest" in the sense that her amazing frame data, speed, and range are mitigated by her lack of strong kill options and lack of damage output despite being able to keep an extensive combo up. Because of this, some characters that struggle against her are able to play the damage trade game where you will eventually take the lead through trades because your damage output is higher than hers.
Mapping multiple buttons or d-pad/c-stick to special doesn't help with mashing for cyclone. If 2 buttons are pressed at the same time (even if they are the same option), smash 4's engine only recognizes one of the inputs. However, mapping special to an additional button can help if you want easier access to mashing after a different input like how you have it set to Y instead of having to go to the B button after pressing X.
MonkeyArms
. He's the only one left getting results with Luigi in my state, even thought it's now his secondary to his Doctor Mario.
Hey hey. It's still possible that we get an patch that buffs him.So, after lots of soul searching after the patch, I think I'm back. Tonight, I was able to back to back 3 stock (our state uses 3 stocks) the 5th best player in my state with my Luigi I haven't played in months but I couldn't even win once with any of the other characters I had been putting time into...Not that I should be making character decisions after one night of friendlies, but I think I'm just sick of searching for something else at this point. I learned the game mechanics with Luigi, so my habits with him keep translating into other characters and it's getting rather annoying.
On top of that, my state's rep of the character has gone down significantly, with one of our top ranked Luigi's just flat out quitting the game, another who frequently places well is dropping him for Diddy Kong randomly, and you guys already know
I dunno, I guess me seeing the opportunity to claim "Best solo Luigi man" in my state is a reason why I want to try, but judging by my play tonight, I think right now might be my best shot, so why not?
Good to be back!
Secondary? SECONDARY?So, after lots of soul searching after the patch, I think I'm back. Tonight, I was able to back to back 3 stock (our state uses 3 stocks) the 5th best player in my state with my Luigi I haven't played in months but I couldn't even win once with any of the other characters I had been putting time into...Not that I should be making character decisions after one night of friendlies, but I think I'm just sick of searching for something else at this point. I learned the game mechanics with Luigi, so my habits with him keep translating into other characters and it's getting rather annoying.
On top of that, my state's rep of the character has gone down significantly, with one of our top ranked Luigi's just flat out quitting the game, another who frequently places well is dropping him for Diddy Kong randomly, and you guys already know
I dunno, I guess me seeing the opportunity to claim "Best solo Luigi man" in my state is a reason why I want to try, but judging by my play tonight, I think right now might be my best shot, so why not?
Good to be back!
Literally thr ONLY reason I said that is because they made Luigi your secondary on the PR picture thing, and I figured they asked you permission to do that. And I watched those Smashville sets live, I was extremely impressed with your play that day!
Con Con and Poke are active in it, so I'd say yes.
...wah?
Yeah, that's kinda what I thought too.
I knew you wouldn't like my chart. You are the most radical Luigi player here...but it's fun to debate.
I can agree with a good chunk with this MU chart. I don't expect you're opinions to match mine clearly, but hey. I can just add my opinion to a few of the characters listed. Feel free to disagree.
