Data Luigi Match-up Discussion Thread

[Lavani]

Green Missile also out-prioritises Wizard's Foot.

Wait, really? I remember reading early in the game's life that Green Missile had garbage priority in this game, and Rosalina's kit either loses to or clanks with Wizard's Foot from what I've seen. Green Missile actually beats it?

This isn't a matchup I can really say much on, but a bit of general vs-Ganon advice: usmash has surprisingly low end lag, be wary of the frametrap. I would also think that Luigi should go for Cyclone spike edgeguards, if Cyclone outprioritizes Ganondorf's upB. With Ganondorf's recovery it would be an easy early kill, and if he does grab you with the upB you have a ton of time to react and tech.

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

Perfect shielding and being aware of how Diddy plays with Bananas is vital.
Luigi cannot afford to be impatient vs Diddy when the player is aware just powerful a banana on the ground actually is.

In this situation we either have to retreat, jab the banana to make it disappear or just wait exactly out of a range where we can deal with pressure from Diddy which will probably the following:

When a diddy has a banana in hand or on stage in front of him, I just start throwing out fireball and force him to do something. Fireball kills thrown banana and when throwing fireballs out over a banana on stage it makes it difficult for him to retrieve the banana. During fireball spam, his best options with banana in hand is probably jump up throw banana from my experience (which is somewhat slow and reactable). With banana on stage, probably sideb but that's totally fine by me because we're at least forcing him to get close and you shouldn't be mindlessly pressing b as well. Give yourself some time to react to options like sideb when you're forcing an approach with fireball.

Also everyone should learn how to instant toss items, both when catching them and when they're on the ground.

This isn't a matchup I can really say much on, but a bit of general vs-Ganon advice: usmash has surprisingly low end lag, be wary of the frametrap. I would also think that Luigi should go for Cyclone spike edgeguards, if Cyclone outprioritizes Ganondorf's upB. With Ganondorf's recovery it would be an easy early kill, and if he does grab you with the upB you have a ton of time to react and tech.

Ganon usmash is more of a bait than a frametrap due to the IASA frames the move has. As for edgeguarding, if you're confident about going offstage then something fun I like trying to do is purposely get caught by his upb while he's recovering so I can tech walljump and hit him off farther while he's stuck in the upb endlag. Same for falcon.

 

[TriTails]

Wait, really? I remember reading early in the game's life that Green Missile had garbage priority in this game, and Rosalina's kit either loses to or clanks with Wizard's Foot from what I've seen. Green Missile actually beats it?

Well, fully charged Green Missile beats out Flare Blitz, fully charged Charge Beam, and a lot more. It has the highest priority out of Luigi's toolkit (Obviously excluding Poltergust 5000 lol. That move doesn't even clash, it just outright suck you in).

 

[J.Miller]

When facing against a skilled player when my Fireballs -> Dash grab doesn't work, I usually do a running Nado, because the priority is real. Not sure how well this will work, but, it's an option.

I notice Diddy cannot be F-air chaingrabbed at 0%. I had to raise his damage to 12% before I can chaingrab him, just like Fox.

Aaaannddd...... I tried this combo today, and it works pretty well. Though, while it might be able to be DI-ed, but.....

D-throw -> They DI upwards (Well, the usual. They don't want to get slapped) -> D-air spike (If they are at low perents, they can't tech this because they are not knocked back powerfully)> IMMEDIATE FF sourspot N-air -> U-tilts -> U-smash

Without DI, I racked up to 66% in Training mode. Though, I tested it at 0%, which is the percentage that it's almost impossible to grab Diddy. I don't know how long this combo can last (Or if Diddy can interrupt the U-tilts), but for general, I usually use D-air each time they DI, unless they has Mario's/Luigi's N-air. Gives Luigi a little more combo potential.

So..... do we have to grab the bananas in this MU? I think it will give Diddy a disadvantage, because he cannot secure his grabs anymore, and we now has our enemy's greatest projectile, coupled with our own Fireballs. Is this the 'Why the banana is important to both Diddy and us' J. Miller? Because we can actually guarantee a free grab when he trip from this?

Oh and also.

Spoiler

WAIT IT'S NOT OVER YET!

One point for anyone who knows where this hillarious line come from . Oh and Miller, congrats on winning BEAST V! Just thought I'd say this, even though it's late.

Banana is our possession is important because we know have a very strong option Oos, a strong projectile that can guarantee a grab or a smash attack. It is a game/stock changing thing to correctly use a banana in anyone's hands, it is down to the situation how it is used.

Bananas cannot always simply just thrown back at the Diddy, thinking outside of the box is required to truly utilse just how dangerous a banana can be. JC throwing it down can be something people are not ready for in general we have to be aware of whatever situation we may face and if we do get a banana attempt to use it as best as you can manage. There were several times in my sets I failed or got the wrong input and just do what I had planned with spacing or just making the most of the banana in my hand.

To be able to shield pressure with fireballs, or at least make the Diddy approach is huge. As long as we are not pressing buttons or overextending then it is a promising situation for us to be in. I will try to demonstrate what I mean in a tournament game if I get a Diddy or even get out of my pools.

Thanks man, I appreciate that late or not. The matches at BEAST V were pretty rough, I've watched it back and although I knew what I went there to do initially was to either make a dent in the results or win I surprised myself. I hope I can do something similar with Apex but it is very realistic I may not even get out of pools, I'll be trying very hard to assure that is not the case.

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

Hopefully what I do in these sets is a sample of what Jmiller is trying to say when referring to pressuring diddy with fireball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umUPuHQ3_RA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N9oMPDHlus

 

[BOXINGKING]

here is j.miller playing against me, a pikachu main. he's tatics were spot on, and he used luigi's full moveset to full effect!

here are some videos from the best luigi in europe. he recently won an international tounament over here, j.miller:
jmiller (luigi) vs bking (pikachu)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmMctW-zn1s

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Hopefully what I do in these sets is a sample of what Jmiller is trying to say when referring to pressuring diddy with fireball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umUPuHQ3_RA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N9oMPDHlus

That's some good stuff! Congrats on those victories. I don't really like it but when Diddy has a banana I just lame him out with Fireballs. He can't do much other than side b. It's kinda funny because Diddy will just kinda struggle a bit before giving up and throwing the banana away to open up the rest of his options.

 

[Glazed_Soul]

I didn't see anything about fighting against Megaman, so I thought I would share my experiences against him.

[Moves not to use]
1. Neutral B (AKA Fireball) - The big and obvious reason fireballs will not work against Megaman is due all the projectiles he has at his use (mega buster, crash bomb, and metal blade). Due to all of these options megaman has, ranged combat is completely out of the question.
2.Down B (Luigi Cyclone) - same reason as with the fireballs, Megaman's will cancel your cyclone and you will become exposed to a serious beating, Blue Bomber style. You may still be able to sneak this move in, but don't rely on this move for movement.
3.Up B (WeeGee Uppercut) - I know, this can be said against any opponent. The only reason I'm saying this is because of Megaman's up tilt (shoryuken!) and his side smash are both excellent kill move at lower percentages (80%). Use your up B at your own risk!

[Recovery options]
I'm just going to say this right now, you're not going to recover without a fight. Using side B to get closer to the course is easily punished by Megaman's Metal Blade. Also, make sure that you save your second jump for when it can grab the ledge. DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, GET DIRECTLY UNDERNEATH THE LEDGE!! This is a very easy punish since Megaman can easily Hard Knuckle (Meteor smash) you. If you can, try to stay above the ledge and drop down to grab it.

[Megaman on the ground]
The typical combo that is released from Megaman is a crash bomb to metal blade, the crash bomb being easy to shield and the metal blade can easily be grabbed, as long as said Megaman is still keeping their distance. As for his mega buster, it can be easily nullified with a shield or a well timed jab combo, allowing for an easy punish if Megaman is using his buster at too close a distance. The only ground move that you might have to be worried about is his dash attack. The only reason for this is if you shield expecting a dash attack and Megaman catches this, you will be grabbed and thrown airborne, which is where Megaman can became a problem. If you shield his dash attack, it can easily be punished with a pivot grab.

[Megaman's air attacks]
If you're above an airborne Megaman, expect to have a bad time. His Fair attack has superior range over any over your aerial moves, so do your best to air dodge behind him so you can gain a chance to land on the ground. Megaman's Bair is his main kill move. If you are at high percentage, expect to see this instead of the Fair. His UpAir attack will generally be saved to keep you in the air you're too far up to Fair or Bair. Megaman's UpAir can usually be avoided by falling in a "zig-zag" pattern, since Megaman usually has to shoot at where you will be instead of where you are. If you are below Megaman, it's time to keep hime up there. Megaman has no attack that can attack you effectively when you are below him. Typically an UpAir is your best method to keep him up there.

[To Summarize]
1.Don't rely on your neutral B and down B
2.Stay aggressive! Megaman beats you when it comes to ranged attacks.
3.Never come back to the map from directly underneath the ledge or directly horizontally, unless you want Megaman to side smash or hard knuckle you into oblivion.
4.Avoid fighting above him, this is where Megaman becomes dangerous.
5. Megaman is weak from underneath, keep juggling him in the air.

Megaman is no joke. In my opinion, Megaman has an advantage to Luigi players, but not by much. As long as you keep your cool and stay close at all times, victory should be yours.

If there's anything I missed, let me know! Also, if I made this too long, I can edit it into a more concise form, probably.

 

[FalKoopa]

So in other words, we can't use our BnB moves against MegaMan. That makes things tricky...

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

The MegaMan MU all depends on what kind of MegaMan we're fighting. If we fight one with heavy usage of Lemons, it'll be a very uphill battle because MegaMan will shut down all approaches due to Luigi's weak approach game. If this is not the case then I don't think the MU is very tough. Once we get in, we have to stay in.

 

[TriTails]

Eh, I have heard Mega goes even with Weegee. Here are my thoughts.

I do believe Crash Bomber and Metal Blades get whupped by Fireballs. The only thing Fireballs lose is Mega Buster (And Charge Shot. But it's transcendent). Though, Luigi Cyclone plows through them all. It's a theory, but considering Cyclone plows through Samus' missiles.... it should be eating lemons there.

I have fought a pro Mega player, pre-patch (And yes, I got whupped hard), and..... his lemons are certainly a problem. Unpredictable Cyclone usages can help. Remember, MegaMan has end lag on the third shot, so he can't fire those lemons like madman. It's REALLY REALLY small though.

Aerial.... his air speed trumps ours. Flame Sword has fair amount of end lag I believe, B-air is annoying (It kills and edgeguard, just like Luigi's), U-air is, well, undoubtely unique, but all you need is either get out of the way or airdgodge, really. In my experience, his first try to juggle with this usually succeed, sending me high up. Then his second attempt.... I just airdodged it up high and he can't really do anything about it except to punish our landing. That ledge! Remember! (Or FF N-air if you're real). Mega Buster is as annoying as ever, but I don't believe he will be using it often, they go in a straight path. Hard Knuckle meteors, hard. Don't eat it by recovering high.

We must keep one thing in mind, we must not let him space his attacks, or else we're done. His aerials, especially.

His F-smash is one of the weakest smash attack in power, but it is an edgeguarding legend. DO NAWT RECOVER IN A STRAIGHT LINE! Like I said, recovering high is our best option here, but if he is expecting this, mix things up.

U-smash has much more range than it looks, trust me. I learned this the hard way. Otherwise, it's your usual 'landing punisher' attack.

D-smash is his second most powerful move, FLAME BLAST! (Dat is the right name right?) Though, unless it has been patched, the animation decieves. It may look like Mega is protecting himself with the pillar or flames during the attack, and you can't seem to punish it.... until you realize there are no hitboxes othe rthan the earlier frames..... yeah, the animation decieves. However, be cautious, it is his second most powerful attack, and apparently it got some range, and he can also punish your landing with this. If you successfully dodged this attack though, burst through the harmless flames and let the comboes begin!

Mega Upper, alright, it is FJP's small bro. Yes, SHORYUKEN! Yep, it may not look like it, but it's MegaMan's most powerful move. Somewhat like Ganon, having an U-tilt that is stronger than his smash attacks.... Anyway, it comes out quick, but somewhat punishable on whiff, and in order to sweetspot it, he has to breath on your face.... just like Fire Jump Punch. However, it is weaker, but less punishable (Thus, why the 'small bro' lol). Remember, this move is his strongest attack, outclassing even his U-smash and D-smash in terms of power.

His F-tilt is his 'moving Mega Buster' alright.

D-tilt is somewhat annoying too.... it covers lots of distance, and after Metal Blade, Mega can follow up with this, and it puts you to the air.

In short.... Mega wins if he manage to outcamp Luigi and outspace him..... but that's about it. Luigi crushes him in melee combat (Mind his Mega Upper and tilts! And Flame Blast and Spark Shot!) and once we're in, we must not let him get away. Hillariously enough, his dashing speed is slower than Luigi.

Crash Bombers are somwhat hillarious. If we get caught, bump with Mega to transfer it to him, effectively making him has to shield or dodge away. This can mess him up, but remember! The blast will still hurt you! Don't get bombed!

Leaf Shield can somewhat edgeguard you (Cancels out jumps), but Mega can't do anything besides grabs I believe. But no, if he throws this, get away, just get away or shield. Fireballs won't cancel this out, and while it deals little damage, still an annoyance.

In a nutshell, this is like Zelda MU. He manages to outspace and outcamp or just keeps you away, he wins. Luigi manages to get in (Which.... I do believe is manageable), Luigi wins. One of the best Mega players in GFAQs (Yes, he was the one I fought), said Mega vs Luigi is even, but doesn't say why (Maybe because he is making a MU chart for MM, but no one asked for Luigi except me, but he didn't replied).

Take this with a grain of salt. I rarely ecounter good Mega online now. I'll need to do some more research. But for now, I think it's even. That F2 N-air is interesting though, can it breaks through double F-airs?

 

[Glazed_Soul]

You summarized the MU pretty well. With Meagaman the only advantage you have is reading and deceiving. Try to perform bait attacks like jumping forwards and pulling back mid hop) or missing an attack on purpose.

 

[TriTails]

You summarized the MU pretty well. With Meagaman the only advantage you have is reading and deceiving. Try to perform bait attacks like jumping forwards and pulling back mid hop) or missing an attack on purpose.

Yeah. However, we has an inherent advantage to MM compared to some other characters, and that is we have answers to Metal Blades/Crash Bombers (Fireballs) and Mega Busters (Cyclone). Like, seriously, how does a Ganon approach MegaMan....

Though, we must not let him keep us away. He can kill us outta our range with F-smash. However, Flame Blast, Charge Shot, and Mega Upper have a lot of end lag. We all know how brutal Luigi is in punish (Low percentage = Combos. High percentages = FJP), so when you see him whiff an attack, try to punish it.

Though, we may need to change our combos a bit. If Mega Buster can break through double F-airs, then we must do F-air + N-air to not getting punished. Sure, we lost one of our chaingrabs, but still, we don't want to get punished here.

I still think this MU is even. Mega is great at keeping opponents at bay, however, he also sometimes need to approach, since his F-smash telegraphs so hard to reach greater distance. Most of his KO moves are 'up close and personal' sytle, so if Mega decides to approach, then we can resort to our tactic of 'wait and punish' with Weegee, and we all know how beastly Luigi is when he gets in.

 

[Locke 06]

Wow, how helpful. The Mega Man boards are starting a discussion on the Luigi v Mega Man matchup and you've already got a head start!

I've quoted some of your posts to start the discussion (I hope you don't mind). We would love it if you came over and helped out. Hopefully we can both learn a thing or two about each other's characters and how the MU plays out.

Bang bang!

 

[Glazed_Soul]

Sure thing! Hopefully you guys will do the same, yeah?

 

[Deleted member]

I just want to chime in on Sheik for a little bit.

I can't say that the match-up is definitely even, but I think that Luigi can stand against her.
I do have a problem with Sheik's fair since it is very quick, leaving Luigi very little room to breath or react.
He can, however, counter some of her more devious combos. Her f-tilt combos, while very good, can broken with his neutral air. The neutral air is key here as some of her combos do become less effective (and could potentially KO her if she isn't careful at certain percents). Her down throw to Bouncing Fish can easily be air dodged by Luigi, making a key combo less effective; just DI away from her and if she initiates it, air dodge.
Fireballs are mildly effective, but I am more of a fan of using aerials and the Luigi Cyclone to approach with in this fight.
I suggest mixing up recoveries to stay unpredictable. She has a lot of great options that can screw us over, like Bouncing Fish, her fair, and her back air. (also, her Needles have more priority than the Green Missile... for some reason)
One distinct advantage that we have over Sheik is KOing power. While Sheik does have a great ability to combo and dish out damage, she has difficulty actually getting the KO. Luigi, on the other hand, can KO her a bit more early and has a greater number of finishers.

I think this match-up may require patience on our part. If we go in guns blazing, then we will be combo meat to her and the damage will quickly rack up.
I'll need to investigate more on good strategies against Sheik.

 

[Saturn_]

I'm new to Luigi, so maybe it's old hat to you guys, but DFX_Dakpo's use of Diddy's banana against Diddy Kong to combo into the shoryuken is new to me.

There are others in here, but the two best are at 1:30 and 11:50:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOPpGbzHFb4

He also uses Luigi's jab to get rid of thrown bananas, something I didn't know you could do. Does this change anyone's view on the Diddy matchup?

 

[UseHydroPimp]

Luigi doesn't seem to have many options against Sheiks grenade, Sheik can come in with a grab when she uses a grenade and from then on can get off a good amount of forward airs. Its always good to know when she is going to do a walk off Grenade Ledge cancel and to not be trapped by it, it really gives her lots of momentum. The annoying thing about the Grenade ledge cancel is that you cant punish very easily.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Grenade isn't much of a problem at all. Most Sheiks rarely use it. If it is used against you, you can easily shield it, jump over it, or roll away. If she does it at mid-range you can even run in and punish before her lag ends.

I'm having a lot of trouble vs. DeDeDe. I'm not even sure why I lose to him so much or just barely beat him. A couple of reasons I can think are that he has deceptively low lag on his moves (at least against Luigi) and I don't count his jumps so I try to catch him airborne but then he jumps again and punishes. Fireball spam doesn't seem to lock him down. Only limits his use of Gordo. Other than that he can jump over Fireballs.

Any ideas on this MU?

 

[1PokeMastr]

Run away if gordo, cqc
You lose at midrange

 

[TriTails]

How I beat D3s:
1. Spam Fireballs because Gordos
2. Wait for him to approach
3. Punish him if he made a mistake (D3's D-tilt is really an annoyance, use B-air or something like that to punish him during the end lag)
4. Grab D3 =Free 48%, repeat this for a few times
5. Shield his N-air
6. He often leaves himself vunerable because of his attacks end lag, so another punish
7. He recovers high with SD3J = Literally free FJP

Defintely in Luigi's favor. I'd say 60:40. His Gordos are easy to reflect with Fireballs, and he is very susceptible to F-air chaingrab. Not all that hard to KO either since if he recovers high = Free FJP, and that can mean a stock.

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

It's very rare for dedede to recover high because his upb now sweetspots the ledge if he's facing that direction so don't count on that for a kill.

 

[Yonder]

I think the match-up we should be discussing in depth is Greninja. Both Boss and J Miller, the two best Luigi players got defeated [soundly] by one played by Amsa so I heard. I unfortunately can't contribute much as a basis since I've yet to play a good one, but I think this is an important match-up to learn. I see only TriTails has inputted on it so...any thoughts?

 

[TriTails]

Excuse me. I meant, some Dededes likes to escape juggles with SD3J (We all know Luigi is pretty good at juggling), but he should be doing other things anyway. Count that out.

Greninja... Have I EVER fought a good one recently? Seriously, I haven't. Ultimate rarity online.

What I remembered: Greninjas like to spam Shurikens. Though, we can just spams Fireballs. Fully charged ones teleghraphs itself, so we can either jumps away or run.

Though, that is the problem. We have zero answers to fully charged Shurikens. We have atrocious airspeed and our most versatile move, Cyclone, get out-prioritized. Any advices would be awesome.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I remember asking about Greninja a while ago but I received little input. Glad we're talking about it again.

Greninja is very fast on both the ground and air. Be careful at midrange. Don't jump. Greninja can easily dash under you and Usmash because of Luigi's floaty nature. Jumping is also dangerous because Greninja can very well string an aerial shuriken->Usmash. Pretty much you don't want to challenge Greninja in the air. His aerials out range Luigi and his Fair is disjointed.

Greninja can be pretty frustrating to fight because his often used moves will feel unpunishable. Like with many of Luigi's MUs patience is very key to beating Greninja. Don't rush an Usmash from under. Greninja can use Dair to stop momentum and punish you. Be wary of SS from offstage. Be ready to block and punish. Pressure with Fireball to force an approach because Fireball is more spammable than shuriken. When Greninja charges shuriken, my best method is to jump over it and Cyclone. Most times Greninja will rush in to grab if you shield it or ready an Usmash or aerial if you jump over it. Cyclone will outprioritize its moves as long you're not getting hit by a disjoint.

Greninja is pretty tough to edgeguard if they know mixups. They can SS to knock you away then Up B safely. They can mix up their Up B approach. It's also risky to go out and edgeguard because if you miss and they make it to the stage before you, Bair is a very strong stage spiking tool and can be difficult to tech because it multihits. Greninja can go pretty deep and edgeguard Luigi pretty well. Mix up.

Against good Greninjas, I feel like I've been forced to Cyclone a lot which I don't want to do. This MU is very hard for me and I can win maybe 2/10 times. Definitely in Greninja's favor

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

Luigi gets bodied by greninja upb shenanigans if you're lazy with your upb so make sure you pay atrention to how and when you try to upb for the ledge when recovering.

 

[Katakiri]

Hey, all! The Meta Knight board is discussing Luigi this week. Drop on by for some tornado on tornado action! http://smashboards.com/threads/meta-knight-match-up-discussion-3-luigi.391495

 

[FullMoon]

I just happened to pass by and I see you guys are talking about the frog. I could offer some input and maybe some advice though I really have no knowledge about Luigi on a technical level. I'm also open for matches for those who want to get some experience fighting the ninja, though I'm not exactly a great player myself.

 

[Yonder]

I just happened to pass by and I see you guys are talking about the frog. I could offer some input and maybe some advice though I really have no knowledge about Luigi on a technical level. I'm also open for matches for those who want to get some experience fighting the ninja, though I'm not exactly a great player myself.

You are more than welcome, I'm sure we could all use the tips. Good to hear the matchup from the other side of the coin.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I just happened to pass by and I see you guys are talking about the frog. I could offer some input and maybe some advice though I really have no knowledge about Luigi on a technical level. I'm also open for matches for those who want to get some experience fighting the ninja, though I'm not exactly a great player myself.

Yeah please share anything you may have on this. I went to the Greninja boards a while ago to see if you guys were talking about Luigi and it was like two posts that didn't have anything I could use. Both parties could learn something.

 

[Glazed_Soul]

Hey, all! The Meta Knight board is discussing Luigi this week. Drop on by for some tornado on tornado action! http://smashboards.com/threads/meta-knight-match-up-discussion-3-luigi.391495

I looked over your thread and in my opinion, I think you guys already have the MU summarized and completed, so good work doing that so quickly! Just out of curiosity, is it all right if we use some of the posts on your thread in our thread? You make a lot of good points and I think it would benefit our thread immensely.

 

[FullMoon]

All right, so... What I have to say about this MU.

Neutral:

Greninja outcamps Luigi with a faster projectile with more range than his so you're forced to approach him, however shurikens have a fair bit of ending lag, so it is possible to get to Greninja by using cyclone, but unless you're somewhat close, it's very easy for Greninja to shield cyclone and punish you for your troubles if they see it coming. Don't get too predictable with cyclones. Fireballs at close range can be useful to set Greninja up for a grab since if he tries shurikens that close, the end-lag is super punishable, so if he gets hit, shields or spotdodges, he can be grabbed, but he can still jump over it or roll to escape so it's not guaranteed

Luigi has to play defensively in neutral, the best opportunity for dealing damage to Greninja is shieldgrabbing a n-air. However, be cautious when doing that, n-air can push you away while you're in your shield, putting you a distance away from him and if you try to grab, you will miss and likely get grabbed yourself or worse. Be also cautious of Greninja going behind during n-air as similar things can happen. Greninja's F-Air and B-Air are safe on shield if spaced correctly, so be wary of that. Greninja's dash grab also has a great range and comes out very quickly.

Advantage:

Luigi can deal a lot of damage to Greninja out of d-throw which is great, however, his bad mobility often means that Greninja will usually be able to get away from him fairly easily with his superior airspeed and the assistance of Hydro Pump if need be. Try to keep Greninja above you as his only option to counter you is d-air, which will leave him vulnerable to an attack if it misses, or Substitute which has the same problem if it's not triggered. The moment Greninja is above you is the best moment to deal damage or get the kill, as hard as it can be to keep him there.

Disadvantage:

The best way for Luigi to get away from Greninja after being put in this state is n-air. Greninja can chase you down mercilessly and catch your landings with Up-Smash (though N-Air trades with it and results in only the first weak hit striking, keep that in mind) or a dash grab. If he shields your N-Air, you're either going to get jabbed or hit by d-tilt, which can be lethal at higher percentages due to it comboing into Up-Smash. It's better to try to break out of Greninja's juggling when you're both in the air, if you manage to hit Greninja with a N-Air while he's jumping after you for an Up-Air or whatever, he's going to be sent above you so you can use that as an opportunity to reverse the situation.

Edgeguarding:

This is pretty bad for Luigi. Greninja can edgeguard him well with B-air and Hydro Pump. One note about Green Missile, I believe it's possible for Greninja to use Substitute against it for edgeguarding as the move has quite the end lag when it hits something from what I've seen. Upwards Substitute can kill Luigi as early as 85% with no rage in Final Destination and leave Greninja completely safe to return even if he wasted his second jump before.

Cyclone helps Luigi recovery, but if the Greninja times it well he can hit Luigi during the end lag of the move which can result in death if you already used your double jump and you're not very good at the jumpless cyclone. Greninja can also stage spike you if you're below the stage or flat out kill you by timing a Shadow Sneak out of stage.

When it comes to the inverse, Luigi will have trouble keeping Greninja out, Shadow Sneak already lets him close the distance to the stage very well with little trouble due to the teleport, plus Hydro Pump mix-ups make him very hard to keep out. Be wary when jumping after Greninja for the gimp because you're at the risk of something like this happening to you and possibly costing you a life.

So my take on the MU is that Greninja can outrange Luigi and chase him very easily due to much better mobility and he also can edgeguard Luigi very well. Luigi can deal more damage to him in a combo, but it's going to be difficult to really keep Greninja on a disadvantaged state. You guys need to make every hit count and try to get as much damage on him as possible before going for the kill. Greninja's smashes and aerials have a good amount of lag on them for you to punish, but be wary of his aerials since he can make them be safe on block and throw you off which will likely result in you getting grabbed.

Ideally you want to get Greninja when he messes up while on the ground where you can capitalize on his mistakes there more consistently, though if you find a good opening after he uses an aerial, go for it; once you manage to hit him, try to keep Greninja above as much as you can to deal damage. Edgeguarding Greninja is very difficult, but if you start to see patterns in how they're recovering, take advantage of them to edgeguard more safely. Be very careful when offstage because Greninja can get you dead very easily there.

Like I said before I don't know much about Luigi and his tools so I might be overlooking something, still, I hope I could be of help. This MU feels like quite the uphill battle for Luigi since Greninja is very good at keeping him in a bad position, but as long as you're pacient, you should be able to find the openings you need to win.

 

[Katakiri]

I looked over your thread and in my opinion, I think you guys already have the MU summarized and completed, so good work doing that so quickly! Just out of curiosity, is it all right if we use some of the posts on your thread in our thread? You make a lot of good points and I think it would benefit our thread immensely.

That's perfectly fine. MU discussions are a combined effort from both boards anyhow. The sooner we all figure out MUs, the sooner we advance the metagame as a whole.

 

[Shoyo James]

Any advice on the Bowser JR matchup? Tournament today with the potential to go against Tweek again. Our matches were close but his reads and uair strings too good. How does Luigi safely come back down with such horrible floatyness and speed?

 

[hey_there]

Any advice on the Bowser JR matchup? Tournament today with the potential to go against Tweek again. Our matches were close but his reads and uair strings too good. How does Luigi safely come back down with such horrible floatyness and speed?

B-reverse Fireball and Cyclone as you're falling to mix up and misdirect your opponent so you can potentially land somewhere safer. Lately I've taken to using Missile to get closer to the edge so I have somewhere safer to land.

Clown Kart dash is very fast and will catch up to you pretty easily though, so either way it'll be tough to land. Good luck!

 

[Berserker.]

Shulk boards want to talk about Luigi (Green Mario). Join us!

http://smashboards.com/threads/luig...started-from-the-bottom-now-were-here.394595/

 

[Moh]

Hey, I'm pretty new to luigi, or to playing competitively in general. i've played since the 64 version, i just never played it in the sense of combos and everything. i just played for fun. But i started to focus on playing competitively since SSB4 came out, and i had a couple of questions. First off i noticed there wasn't a match up of Luigi Vs Fox. i was wondering if someone could help me with that, i'm still facing trouble as i got destroyed today. ( i'm still new, mercy if the match up is in my favor )

Here is where i'm having trouble.

1) He keeps F Smashing and i can't do anything to counter that, i could shield but i need something to counter it or punish it.

2) Everytime i get knocked up in the air and will land on stage, his air attacks pretty much kill me, is there anything i can do ? i've tried N smash but that doesn't work with his up smashes, neither does my down smash.

3) everytime i'm trying to get back on stage, as soon as i get near the edge, he's already on the edge and lands a Down smash and just keeps kicking me back off the ledge.

4) Finally, i try to tornado him while he's trying to recover, but i keep dying with him. i know i have to keep pressing B to go up, but it seems i'm doing it horribly wrong.

That's pretty much all i have regarding the match up, i would like to thank whoever will reply for their help ^_^

 

[Soupy]

4) Finally, i try to tornado him while he's trying to recover, but i keep dying with him. i know i have to keep pressing B to go up, but it seems i'm doing it horribly wrong.

That's pretty much all i have regarding the match up, i would like to thank whoever will reply for their help ^_^

While I can't really help you with the Fox match-up because I have yet to encounter a fox player, this is an easy fix.

Don't run off -> 'Nado

....Unless you're an absolute god at mashing the b button.

It's insanely hard to get vertical momentum off of your 'nado unless you use your 2nd jump and do it going up, in which case, you will always recover from the depths of hell.

However, if you are falling and you use it, unless you can hit that little red button 10-15 times in a second, you will just fall again.
Luigi's off stage game actually isn't that great so I would recommend you just do your best ledge guarding

 

[Moh]

While I can't really help you with the Fox match-up because I have yet to encounter a fox player, this is an easy fix.

Don't run off -> 'Nado

....Unless you're an absolute god at mashing the b button.

It's insanely hard to get vertical momentum off of your 'nado unless you use your 2nd jump and do it going up, in which case, you will always recover from the depths of hell.

However, if you are falling and you use it, unless you can hit that little red button 10-15 times in a second, you will just fall again.
Luigi's off stage game actually isn't that great so I would recommend you just do your best ledge guarding

Ah, i don't think i can pull that off quite yet XD

any other advice you have for me would be really appreciated

 

[Deleted member]

I played against some Foxes in For Glory and I can say a few things about the match-up.

Fox is a very combo heavy character and he can bait you into doing a misstep. While Fox's attacks are very quick, Luigi can easily escape his u-tilts and his jab combo with nair. Fox's falling speed helps Luigi into comboing him, giving Luigi a nice deal of set-ups and follow-ups for his down throw.

Luigi's Fireball game is slightly weakened thanks to the Reflector, but I don't think that will be too much of a deal breaker here as let's say Mr. Game & Watch's Oil Panic. Luigi's short hop aerials are particularly effective at keeping Fox at bay and spacing him out. I should also mention that Luigi can duck and crawl underneath Fox's Blaster, meaning Luigi won't have to suffer from Blaster's chip damage (but only if you're crawling).
As for Fox's recovery, it's pretty predictable and kinda gimpable. I wouldn't be too afraid to attack Fox while he is recovering with Fire Fox and Luigi can defend himself from Fox Illusion by shielding or doing a nair (depends on the situation, also be careful as Fox Illusion can spike).

However, Fox has the advantage in the air. His forward aerial is a good move that Fox mains will use after a set-up since it can easily combo Luigi and it's hard to escape. If you see Fox use his down aerial, the best option is to shield it and wait for the move to be over, but I haven't seen any Foxes use it as a follow-up move. His back aerial can reck Luigi and it's a good edge-guarding tool against him; it definitely benefits from the new ledge mechanics. As for his up aerial... yeah, it's powerful, it's good, but try to dodge it and outsmart Fox.

I will say that Fox is scary at later percents with rage, especially when his up smash benefits from it. I noticed that some Foxes like to trap you in a corner and up smash against you... I lost two matches because of that maneuver.

I don't think that Fox is one of Luigi's tougher match-ups. Hell, I beat a Fox so many times that he counter-picked to Little Mac. I think the key thing here is patience against Fox and by spamming nair. I'm dead serious about nair; it's an amazing move in this fight.
However, take this with a grain of salt; this is For Glory, after all.