Lucina Moveset Analysis/Speculation/Discussion

[Ryuutakeshi]

I did notice that the middle track of dancing blade incorporates her thrusting pose from her normal attack in Awakening. So... that's different.

 

[DakotaBonez]

BIG NEWS
Lucina can wear a mask!

CLONE STATUS:


DECONFIRMED

 

[Nintendo Fan]

No, but in all seriousness, @Novice_Brave pointed out the clone “qualifications.” I'm not upset or anything about Lucina and don't mean any hate towards her fanbase by the way...

 

[Metallaeus]

Lucina is a clone. I'm sorry man, but you gotta stop being in denial. I love Lucina, but even I'll admit to her being a clone. Doesn't mean she won't be fun to play and doesn't mean it'll stop people like me from playing her. But when even Sakurai admits she's just pretty much a straight up Marth clone with no tipper and slight differences, she's a clone, man.

 

[jigglover]

So how is she different? Besides the tipper and smaller body frame I mean?

See my thread about her moveset in this subforum, but from the top of my head, her Dancing Blade gets more hits in and there's an attack on Marth which is a thrust, but on Lucina it is a large overhead swing which are nit comparable are not comparable, so because there is only one move's difference, plus the different properties of other moves, Lucina is just a semi-clone!

 

[JaidynReiman]

See my thread about her moveset in this subforum, but from the top of my head, her Dancing Blade gets more hits in and there's an attack on Marth which is a thrust, but on Lucina it is a large overhead swing which are nit comparable are not comparable, so because there is only one move's difference, plus the different properties of other moves, Lucina is just a semi-clone!

Wait, she does have a slash? See, I thought they might do that. Marth's standard B was originally a Slash, but it was changed to a Stab, and a Stab fits Marth better. But Lucina going back to a Slash might fit her a lot better, too.

 

[SmashBro99]

Lucina being a clone of Marth does make sense, yes. I just wish they kept her as a skin...nothing against the character, I like her.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Lucina being a clone of Marth does make sense, yes. I just wish they kept her as a skin...nothing against the character, I like her.

So, they made a small change and add a new separate slot for her, that's a problem? I don't follow the logic...

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

She's definitely a clone. Sakurai even said it himself. Im not following all the denial here. But I see nothing wrong with that. I mean I don't care for Lucina at all to be honest but there's nothing wrong with her being a Marth clone.

I personally never wanted her in this game. I would have much rather had Roy, if anyone from FE. But she's in, and I really couldn't see her being made any other way, other than being a Marth clone... But that's fine with me.

The only thing I'm worried about is Lucina ending up being the better Marth.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

She's a clone because the word "clone" is a blanket term used to refer to two characters in separate slots with the same, or a very similar, moveset... which is what Lucina is. There's not really any room for debate here as it's been confirmed by Sakurai and by in-game screenshots.

 

[Stompu]

If so many people are adamant in saying that she's a clone, then they should show me and others gifs of the moves she used and then gifs of Marth using the same moves. There's not much else to it, really...

Didn't Sakurai himself say that she had the same strength, speed and moves as Marth but they didn't make her an alternate because she had that 1 unique trait (the lack of sword-tipping)?

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

This picture from Sakurai was made to show that Lucina is to Marth as Wii Fit Trainer Female is to Wii Fit Trainer Male xD

Btw, Marth looks like he finally got a little more built... maybe Ike's been training him.

 

[MegaMango]

What's funny is that, because she and her father use Aether, they have good reason to fight like Ike.

But they are descended from Marth, she disguises herself as Marth, she's fast, wields Falchion, and is a blue haired swordsperson. Yeah, I can see why she plays like Marth. You can say she fights like her dad and you'd be right, but since we don't exactly have anything to compare their styles with in Smash we kind of have to go with what we DO have.

However, if you want to get REALLY technical, Lucina and Marth share the same class build in Awakening. So there is that.

Hey guys! This is my first post

I wanted to point that out too. I think maybe just 2 or 3 moves could have been changed to make her less clone-ish. Her up+B could have been aether, and when used from the ground, she could have lunged forward and spin instead of going up (or that could be her standard B move). Shoot, in one of the game's cutscenes, she uses aether in a spinning fashion.

 

[Skyblade12]

No, sorry, she's a Marth clone. Yes, she does fight like Marth. Everyone points to the Two Falchions cutscene. That's great. Now look at the rest of the game. Go find a Marth DLC character. Notice anything? His Lodestar class uses the same animations and attack styles as Lucina's Lord class. Notice anything else? Chrom's Lord class doesn't. The two Lords are the only instance, in the entire game, of having a single class with different animation depending on who uses it. Yet, despite this, they felt fine copy/pasting Lucina's animations on to Marth. This also makes the Lodestar the ONLY class to share visuals and animations with another class.

If they're clearly fine with copy/pasting animations, since they do it for EVERY OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME, why do they take the trouble to separate Lucina and Chrom? Why would they develop an entirely new animation line? Because the two don't fight the same. They have similar styles, and Lucina was clearly influenced by her father's training, but they don't fight identically.

Then we get past the combat mechanics, and on to the story. And it matches there too. Sure, Lucina adopted Marth's name and dress, but that's not important. What's far more important is Tiki's reaction. Tiki is the only character who actually knew Marth. When they first meet, Tiki mistakes Lucina for Marth. But later, in their support conversations, Tiki becomes convinced that Lucina is Marth reborn.

Tiki: "(...She builds trust and wins allies without even thinking about it...) (Could she truly be...?!)"

Now let's look at Tiki's views on Chrom, as seen in her Supports with Robin.

Tiki: "Perhaps because Chrom is not like Marth. He is much more direct, and committed to what he believes is right. Chrom might more resemble a different ancestor, from the age I was born in. Another great man in their line, from 1000 years before Marth... But the Marth of my time was wise and fair, and won hearts with his kindness."

So, again, to the millennia old dragon who actually knew Marth, Lucina is a Marth clone, while Chrom is his own entity.



I think Lucina is a great character, and I would have liked a little more differentiation (like giving her Aether, since it's one of the only unavoidable skill acquisitions in the game), but I've known since I first started considering her for Super Smash Bros. that, if she showed up, she would be a Marth clone. Storyline or gameplay, they both just fit way too well.

I'm just happy that they differentiated her enough to get a separate roster slot, instead of her just being an alternate skin.

 

[LancerStaff]

I don't see why her Dair wouldn't always be a spike.

They changed Marth's Dair in the demo. Now, Marth's tipper doesn't spike, but the rest of the blade does. That could change from the demo build, but that's how it worked, nonetheless.

Pit's dair infamously can't spike in Brawl, dispite the similar appearance to Marth's dair. I could easily see Lucina's dair not spiking after Pit got shafted.

 

[Reginleif]

No, sorry, she's a Marth clone. Yes, she does fight like Marth. Everyone points to the Two Falchions cutscene. That's great. Now look at the rest of the game. Go find a Marth DLC character. Notice anything? His Lodestar class uses the same animations and attack styles as Lucina's Lord class. Notice anything else? Chrom's Lord class doesn't. The two Lords are the only instance, in the entire game, of having a single class with different animation depending on who uses it. Yet, despite this, they felt fine copy/pasting Lucina's animations on to Marth. This also makes the Lodestar the ONLY class to share visuals and animations with another class.

If they're clearly fine with copy/pasting animations, since they do it for EVERY OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME, why do they take the trouble to separate Lucina and Chrom? Why would they develop an entirely new animation line? Because the two don't fight the same. They have similar styles, and Lucina was clearly influenced by her father's training, but they don't fight identically.

Then we get past the combat mechanics, and on to the story. And it matches there too. Sure, Lucina adopted Marth's name and dress, but that's not important. What's far more important is Tiki's reaction. Tiki is the only character who actually knew Marth. When they first meet, Tiki mistakes Lucina for Marth. But later, in their support conversations, Tiki becomes convinced that Lucina is Marth reborn.

Tiki: "(...She builds trust and wins allies without even thinking about it...) (Could she truly be...?!)"

Now let's look at Tiki's views on Chrom, as seen in her Supports with Robin.

Tiki: "Perhaps because Chrom is not like Marth. He is much more direct, and committed to what he believes is right. Chrom might more resemble a different ancestor, from the age I was born in. Another great man in their line, from 1000 years before Marth... But the Marth of my time was wise and fair, and won hearts with his kindness."

So, again, to the millennia old dragon who actually knew Marth, Lucina is a Marth clone, while Chrom is his own entity.



I think Lucina is a great character, and I would have liked a little more differentiation (like giving her Aether, since it's one of the only unavoidable skill acquisitions in the game), but I've known since I first started considering her for Super Smash Bros. that, if she showed up, she would be a Marth clone. Storyline or gameplay, they both just fit way too well.

I'm just happy that they differentiated her enough to get a separate roster slot, instead of her just being an alternate skin.

You need to stop saying Chrom and Lucina don't fight alike. They're blood. She learned from Chrom. She loves Chrom and takes after him. They do the same exact moves in Two Falchions, which outweighs non-canon 3D animations.

You need to stop bringing up the Tiki quotes because she's referring to character, not fighting style, which does nothing for your argument.

I agree Lucina and Marth are visually more similar in Awakening because she has the same exact outfit and is slender like him. They share a lot of relations, which is why it makes sense for her to be a clone.

But to say that Chrom doesn't fight like Lucina or doesn't also share some similarities with Marth is a reach.

 

[CommanderRin]

IS (Intelligent Systems) favorite character is actually (supposedly) Tharja.

I'm sure Sakurai chose Lucina over Chrom for more Female Reps.

I bet Chrom would have been a semi-clone as well.

Almost all of them mention Tharja as one of their favorites.

http://fireemblem.nintendo.com/developer-interview/page3.html

 

[Reginleif]

IS (Intelligent Systems) favorite character is actually (supposedly) Tharja.

I'm sure Sakurai chose Lucina over Chrom for more Female Reps.

I bet Chrom would have been a semi-clone as well.

Almost all of them mention Tharja as one of their favorites.

http://fireemblem.nintendo.com/developer-interview/page3.html

It was never Lucina over Chrom though. She has a huge impact in the franchise and the story of Awakening. And Sakurai stated Lucina was always planned to be playable from the start while he chose Robin over Chrom.
I'm sure Tharja is many of the developer's faves. She was the first one to get her own figurine and she's ranked high in popularity polls. They still push for Lucina though since she's up there as well and most popular by the fans.

 

[MegaMango]

It was never Lucina over Chrom though. She has a huge impact in the franchise and the story of Awakening. And Sakurai stated Lucina was always planned to be playable from the start while he chose Robin over Chrom.
I'm sure Tharja is many of the developer's faves. She was the first one to get her own figurine and she's ranked high in popularity polls. They still push for Lucina though since she's up there as well and most popular by the fans.

It'd be real cool to get Tharja as a DLC character later on in the future (I think it's possible), don't you think?

Anyways, yeah, Lucina was definitely planned to be in from the start. I'm just a little upset that everything we've seen so far of her seems to be an exact copy of Marth's moveset. Oh well, at least we have her custom moves to play with. Maybe she'll get Aether as an alternate Up+B?

 

[CommanderRin]

It'd be real cool to get Tharja as a DLC character later on in the future (I think it's possible), don't you think?

Anyways, yeah, Lucina was definitely planned to be in from the start. I'm just a little upset that everything we've seen so far of her seems to be an exact copy of Marth's moveset. Oh well, at least we have her custom moves to play with. Maybe she'll get Aether as an alternate Up+B?

Tharja/Henry alternate for Robin, because.

It was never Lucina over Chrom though. She has a huge impact in the franchise and the story of Awakening. And Sakurai stated Lucina was always planned to be playable from the start while he chose Robin over Chrom.
I'm sure Tharja is many of the developer's faves. She was the first one to get her own figurine and she's ranked high in popularity polls. They still push for Lucina though since she's up there as well and most popular by the fans.

/facepalm

Quite ashamed of myself since I can clearly recall reading Sakurai's famitsu page where he mentioned that.

Thanks for the reminder.

And yeah, I agree, Lucina has a better fanbase with the Fire Emblem fans as most Tharja fans don't really give much explanation to their "fandom" other than sexy.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Oooooooh, low blow.

Just wait till she reclasses to archer.

To be fair lucina is pretty flat chested

 

[Reginleif]

To be fair lucina is pretty flat chested

Canonically yes, but Archer Lucina cannot be ignored

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Canonically yes, but Archer Lucina cannot be ignored

dafuq?

 

[TeaTwoTime]

It's the archer base model with Lucina's head. The in-game models were never very accurate anyways - even besides the missing feet.

 

[Prince17]

You can always look at the stock icons and their stage entrances will almost certainly be different (I believe Lucina's is she takes off her mask). Also if they are both in one match with default costumes and you are playing the 3DS version then you can always use the targeting feature. But really I don't think it would be a problem anyway, it's like telling Jigglypuff apart from Kirby. Voices & sounds will give it away when they begin a move.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

dafuq?

The Fire Emblem world is a magical place.

 

[Vann Accessible]

Canonically yes, but Archer Lucina cannot be ignored

Cough*padding*cough

 

[Skyblade12]

To be fair lucina is pretty flat chested

A lady's "assets" are defined by class. This is so that the base body type models can be reused for multiple characters.

Why do you think it takes a magical seal to change classes?

 

[Skyblade12]

I'd also like to say that I'm quite happy that we have a confirmed clone in, especially a new clone. While the idea of "OMG, tons of clones" may be distressing, it also raises some neat potential. I mean, even though he came first, Mewtwo these days would be considered a Lucario clone. But he doesn't play exactly the same, so he could be his own character now, right? It also increases the chance that, say, Lucas could come back in. Or even Dr. Mario. I may not be a fan of those particular characters, but I know that people are, and I have no objection to them returning. Clones are much easier to make than full characters, and a few extra days spent on a couple is quite alright with me.

Although I'm surprised nobody noticed the real reason behind the "clone instead of alt skin". If it was an alt skin, they couldn't sell a Lucina amiibo, now could they? My first real prediction of Lucina in game was seeing her picture on the amiibo splash page (as much as I love her character, I was guessing Chrom). But Isabelle was there as well, so I wasn't sure. Some people may call it shameless money-grubbing. I don't care. I want a Lucina amiibo. Not only will it look nice, but I can use it when we finally get Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem.

 

[Hong]

IS (Intelligent Systems) favorite character is actually (supposedly) Tharja.

I'm sure Sakurai chose Lucina over Chrom for more Female Reps.

I bet Chrom would have been a semi-clone as well.

Almost all of them mention Tharja as one of their favorites.

http://fireemblem.nintendo.com/developer-interview/page3.html

You haven't been reading any of the Japanese interviews, have you?

 

[CommanderRin]

You haven't been reading any of the Japanese interviews, have you?

I did, and I forgot, someone actually corrected me already, sorry for my forgetfulness

It's actually only three posts above this one...

 

[Hong]

I did, and I forgot, someone actually corrected me already, sorry for my forgetfulness

It's actually only three posts above this one...

You haven't been reading any of the Japanese interviews, have you?

Just by poor choice of words, my post sounded unintentionally snarky. It is I who should apologize. It was supposed to be more of a genuine question instead of a condescending remark.

In any event, Lucina is definitely their baby girl. I'd love if they gave us an astronaut outfit for her based on concepts from when they planned to have Fire Emblem take place on Mars. I have a thing for spacesuits. :D

 

[pupNapoleon]

If it was an alt skin, they couldn't sell a Lucina amiibo, now could they?

I never considered that; though I think the reason this is the case, is because I find the statement false.
They could easily sell an amiibo for alt skin, and in fact, I reckon that half the reason they are going so far out of the way to make so many alt skins is because of the amiibos.
I see no reason why there would not be amiibos for alternate skins- can you provide justification for this reason? I think the multiple versions of Robin, WFT, and especially Villager put into focus just how likely different amiibos are for each character- if only just to continue with the male and female balance, though this is just one example, I am sure there will be both for every character.

In time, I would imagine different amiibos for different costumes and color variations, and even just different ones with different poses, as in different action figure variances, simply because it would refresh the series for collectors, and add in, say, an event match or two.
Amiibos will be big, and they will sell. There will be many.

 

[Skyblade12]

I never considered that; though I think the reason this is the case, is because I find the statement false.
They could easily sell an amiibo for alt skin, and in fact, I reckon that half the reason they are going so far out of the way to make so many alt skins is because of the amiibos.
I see no reason why there would not be amiibos for alternate skins- can you provide justification for this reason? I think the multiple versions of Robin, WFT, and especially Villager put into focus just how likely different amiibos are for each character- if only just to continue with the male and female balance, though this is just one example, I am sure there will be both for every character.

In time, I would imagine different amiibos for different costumes and color variations, and even just different ones with different poses, as in different action figure variances, simply because it would refresh the series for collectors, and add in, say, an event match or two.
Amiibos will be big, and they will sell. There will be many.

Because Amiibo are supposed to contain character data. If she's just an alternate skin, she can't have separate character data. You can't train "Lucina" and "Marth" if they're both one and the same.

 

[CommanderRin]

Just by poor choice of words, my post sounded unintentionally snarky. It is I who should apologize. It was supposed to be more of a genuine question instead of a condescending remark.

In any event, Lucina is definitely their baby girl. I'd love if they gave us an astronaut outfit for her based on concepts from when they planned to have Fire Emblem take place on Mars. I have a thing for spacesuits. :D

Ehh, don't worry about it.

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Fire Emblem in space???

Do they have any concept art online?

 

[Hong]

Ehh, don't worry about it.

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Fire Emblem in space???

Do they have any concept art online?

Nah. All we know is that, before the start of Awakening's development, among the many ideas they had was that the adventure would take place on Mars. Crazy to imagine how that would work.

 

[Skyblade12]

Nah. All we know is that, before the start of Awakening's development, among the many ideas they had was that the adventure would take place on Mars. Crazy to imagine how that would work.

I believe the director of Intelligent Systems did say that the reason they started looking at doing a crossover work was because they wanted to make a Fire Emblem game that was in a more modern setting. That was what led them to partnering with ATLUS for Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Because Amiibo are supposed to contain character data. If she's just an alternate skin, she can't have separate character data. You can't train "Lucina" and "Marth" if they're both one and the same.

Why? Where is this ever stated, or even implied? This does not even make any sense.
If two friends have marth amiibos, obviously they can each load their marth amiibos separately, meaning the game can recognize they are from two separate amiibos.
Why would an indivdual amiibo not be able to specificy that it is specifically for an alt costume? I would imagine, that since it is for YOUR specific data, you set your preferences when you get it (color and costume being a part of it), so that when it loads, your preferences are on screen.

Am I missing your point?

 

[Skyblade12]

Why? Where is this ever stated, or even implied? This does not even make any sense.
If two friends have marth amiibos, obviously they can each load their marth amiibos separately, meaning the game can recognize they are from two separate amiibos.
Why would an indivdual amiibo not be able to specificy that it is specifically for an alt costume? I would imagine, that since it is for YOUR specific data, you set your preferences when you get it (color and costume being a part of it), so that when it loads, your preferences are on screen.

Am I missing your point?

For one thing, amiibo are supposed to work across multiple games. So when you then go to, say, Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem, you would still have to have two amiibo tied to the one character, since they would be storing the same data.

You're also missing out on potential sales of the figurines. If I play as Lucina as an alt Marth, I can't train her separately from Marth. I may buy a separate figure, since I like Lucina better than Marth, but I would be much less likely to buy both, since they're storing the same data.

Between the redundancy of having two different figures for the same data (which will happen, I'm sure, but not with alternate character skins), and the fact that every game that supported those amiibo from then on would be forced to implement the characters as a second skin, I find it highly unlikely that any alternate skin character would have a separate amiibo.

 

[Raetah]

There's honestly no reason to make Lucina a clone. First of all, contrary to the general notion, she does not fight like Marth. Yes, she disguises as Marth! A big part of her appeal is her being Masked Marth. But it is already known she fights like her father, Chrom, as stated in Two Falchions. Since Lucina is a female and has a lighter, thinner body than the Marth in SSB4, she should be able to perform more quickly and jump higher.

Marth does not fight like Marth. Chrom probably would fight like Marth as well.