Lucina Moveset Analysis/Speculation/Discussion

[Hong]

What do you mean "no Brand" ?

 

[Reginleif]

Inigo has the brand on his right eye... :'(

 

[Donalp15]

At first I was excited for Lucina but as time goes on its only leaving more of a sour taste. They could have easily made her a tipper and kept her a skin, this whole slight difference thing is getting to me much like Tink.

So you would rather have no new character, than a clone? If see was an alt costume the amount of time spent on her would be no different, but she would have no classic mode trophy, no victory poses, no LUCINA! chant or wouldn't be a part of all star mode.
While I understand people do not like clones, she was basically added as a bonus character, and I do not understand why people can not just be happy for her fans.
Anyway, while her specials are the same, its still possible the characteristics of the specials or a moves may vary. The fact he says almost identical, makes me think there will be a few small, but noticeable changes, that compliment the balanced sword mechanic.

 

[Camc10]

From what Sakurai has been saying for the past days it's been making me dislike Lucina's inclusion more and more. We didn't need Lucina but it's not that I don't like Lucina getting in, more so that it feel like he just put her in to pad out the female roster, at least that's how I feel happened. I'm okay with clones but the fact that she was going to be a alt but got to be her own character just because rubs me the wrong way.

 

[lightdasher]

Inigo has the brand on his right eye... :'(

So does any child if they're the son/daughter of Chrom

 

[TeaTwoTime]

I'm okay with clones but the fact that she was going to be a alt but got to be her own character just because rubs me the wrong way.

I don't really understand. Could you clarify? What's wrong with selecting her through her own individual slot than through Marth's? It really seems like a win-win situation with no downside to me. All it actually means is that it opens up the possibility to give her a slightly different playstyle (having more options is generally a good thing), that selecting her is more convenient and that Lucina fans are happier. I'm just confused about why this bothers people.

 

[Camc10]

I don't really understand. Could you clarify? What's wrong with selecting her through her own individual slot than through Marth's? It really seems like a win-win situation with no downside to me. All it actually means is that it opens up the possibility to give her a slightly different playstyle (having more options is generally a good thing), that selecting her is more convenient and that Lucina fans are happier. I'm just confused about why this bothers people.

For why it bothers me, I know Lucina has reasons why she should be in smash but I feel like one of the main reasons is because she's a female, so while it's probably not true, it just feels like Lucina is just there to pad out the female roster. One thing I've also seen on other sites is that because Lucina got in for being "slightly different", it opens up the flood gates of similar characters to be clones like Daisy and Dark Pit.

 

[Burruni]

For why it bothers me, I know Lucina has reasons why she should be in smash but I feel like one of the main reasons is because she's a female, so while it's probably not true, it just feels like Lucina is just there to pad out the female roster. One thing I've also seen on other sites is that because Lucina got in for being "slightly different", it opens up the flood gates of similar characters to be clones like Daisy and Dark Pit.

There is one big difference between Lucina and Daisy (and lesser so to Dark Pit). Lucina within the realm of her own series is truly dignified and established as a separate and complete character with some fighting style similarities to "The Hero King" Marth. The only difference Daisy has had to Peach within Mario games is that she's a tomboyish princess. There has been no game to truly make Daisy "unique." Lucina is the Princess to a destroyed kingdom that goes back about 20 years to prevent the revival of a dark god that brings apart a cataclysm. Dark Pit, within KI: U, is Pit's "Negative Twin" brought out by a magic mirror who has an anti-hero personality and helps out for matters of respect and not just servitude to the gods. Dark Pit's only things going for him is being seen at the end of Palutena's trailer and that there are 4 weapon types from Kid Icarus Uprising that aren't in Pit's moveset (Palm, Staff, Cannon, and Club though Ore Club is an item). Lucina is her own standing character with similarities to Marth in Awakening, Daisy is "just" a tomboyish Peach that has been limited to spin-offs since Mario Land, and Dark Pit is an edgy magical clone with a pool of in-game material that has yet to be used.

 

[Camc10]

There is one big difference between Lucina and Daisy (and lesser so to Dark Pit). Lucina within the realm of her own series is truly dignified and established as a separate and complete character with some fighting style similarities to "The Hero King" Marth. The only difference Daisy has had to Peach within Mario games is that she's a tomboyish princess. There has been no game to truly make Daisy "unique." Lucina is the Princess to a destroyed kingdom that goes back about 20 years to prevent the revival of a dark god that brings apart a cataclysm. Dark Pit, within KI: U, is Pit's "Negative Twin" brought out by a magic mirror who has an anti-hero personality and helps out for matters of respect and not just servitude to the gods. Dark Pit's only things going for him is being seen at the end of Palutena's trailer and that there are 4 weapon types from Kid Icarus Uprising that aren't in Pit's moveset (Palm, Staff, Cannon, and Club though Ore Club is an item). Lucina is her own standing character with similarities to Marth in Awakening, Daisy is "just" a tomboyish Peach that has been limited to spin-offs since Mario Land, and Dark Pit is an edgy magical clone with a pool of in-game material that has yet to be used.

Daisy and Dark Pit are just examples and I really don't think they're going to be in. But I've even seen people saying that because of it, if Dr.Mario is In the game, check can't be a alt, he must be a playable character because he has enough differences than Mario.

 

[Burruni]

Daisy and Dark Pit are just examples and I really don't think they're going to be in. But I've even seen people saying that because of it, if Dr.Mario is In the game, check can't be a alt, he must be a playable character because he has enough differences than Mario.

I was just trying to use those examples to demonstrate the difference in terms of characters that can translate into difference as a fighter. Dr. Mario's differences are entirely aesthetic, last I checked. The fireballs are pills have a different sound effect, the cape's white, and his actual model. The ONLY "problem" with it being an alt would be if Olimar's red Pikmin were immune to fire as they are in their games (which they are not) and if type advantages translated from Pokemon into Smash (which they don't). I really don't see the grounds for arguing that Dr. Mario deserves to be anything more than an alt. costume.

 

[Camc10]

I was just trying to use those examples to demonstrate the difference in terms of characters that can translate into difference as a fighter. Dr. Mario's differences are entirely aesthetic, last I checked. The fireballs are pills have a different sound effect, the cape's white, and his actual model. The ONLY "problem" with it being an alt would be if Olimar's red Pikmin were immune to fire as they are in their games (which they are not) and if type advantages translated from Pokemon into Smash (which they don't). I really don't see the grounds for arguing that Dr. Mario deserves to be anything more than an alt. costume.

Dr.Mario in Melee has some differences mostly being a stronger Mario who can't wall jump with a faster air speed but slower ground speed.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

If you can't tell them apart, Lucina's Marth disguise is a complete success.

But think of all the filthy casuals who will make stupid jokes about it!

 

[TimeSmash]

In Marth's defense, he did bulk up by using his King Marth outfit and looks manlier than Melee/Brawl

It was probably thanks to all the yoga and pilates DVDs he practiced in his basement, set to the tune of Michael Buble or Maroon 5

 

[liets]

If so many people are adamant in saying that she's a clone, then they should show me and others gifs of the moves she used and then gifs of Marth using the same moves. There's not much else to it, really...

 

[Rymi]

she kinda is although she still might have diffrent custom moves

 

[Mr_Anderson]

Directly from Sakurai himself:

Lucina uses the same techniques as Marth, a fighter with whom I'm sure most of you are already familiar. I even went so far as to make their strength, speed, and special attacks almost identical.

I think that's proof enough.

 

[GOofyGV]

Directly from Sakurai himself:



I think that's proof enough.

source?

 

[Mr_Anderson]

source?

Here and here, amongst other places. Sakurai did an interview with Famitsu, which is basically Japan's Game Informer.

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

source?

Here's the source: http://www.gonintendo.com/s/233268-...-bros-wii-u-3ds-why-chrom-didn-t-make-the-cut

Please note his usage of the word, "almost" There are differences, likely, within a five to ten percent difference. It will be Roy to Marth, but the differences will be more subtle.

 

[MechaWave]

If so many people are adamant in saying that she's a clone, then they should show me and others gifs of the moves she used and then gifs of Marth using the same moves. There's not much else to it, really...

If you took 5 minutes you could just figure it out yourself. Sakurai's statement in his Famitsu column and the fact Lucina even has the same special move names.

She may have minor animation differences, of course. We don't know all of her regular moves.

 

[liets]

She may have minor animation differences, of course. We don't know all of her regular moves.

And this could very easily make all the difference

 

[Reginleif]

She is a clone, with minor differences. Sakurai stated himself.

We'll see in the future what else is different though, like her Final Smash. It may be the Awakening version of a critical hit.

 

[KoRLumen]

If you took 5 minutes you could just figure it out yourself. Sakurai's statement in his Famitsu column and the fact Lucina even has the same special move names.

She may have minor animation differences, of course. We don't know all of her regular moves.

Considering that she was originally planned to be an alt for Marth, I think the only hope we have in different moves will be in the custom movesets.

Personally, I don't really mind that Lucina is a clone.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

And this could very easily make all the difference

You have no idea what you're talking about... It wouldn't make any difference because even Luigi and Ganondorf are clones despite having different down Bs, different Uptilts, different Final smashes. They are still clones.

Why do you need it proven to you anyways?(especially when its so obvious) Is it going to affect how you feel about the character?

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

She was a clone before she even made it to Sm4sh lol

 

[jigglover]

You have no idea what you're talking about... It wouldn't make any difference because even Luigi and Ganondorf are clones despite having different down Bs, different Uptilts, different Final smashes. They are still clones.

Why do you need it proven to you anyways?(especially when its so obvious) Is it going to affect how you feel about the character?

No, Luigi is a semi-clone. Ganondorf has the same Down B and Uptilt, and even the same properties/stats. Ganondorf is the only actual clone in the series right now, including Lucina, as she already has different properties in her attacks themselves. As such, she is a semi-clone.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

No, Luigi is a semi-clone. Ganondorf has the same Down B and Uptilt, and even the same properties/stats. Ganondorf is the only actual clone in the series right now, including Lucina, as she already has different properties in her attacks themselves. As such, she is a semi-clone.

Come on admit it, she's Marth without the tipper lol

 

[jigglover]

Come on admit it, she's Marth without the tipper lol

I don't understand. Why do you want me to admit something which is untrue? That doesn't make sense to me...

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

Considering that she was originally planned to be an alt for Marth, I think the only hope we have in different moves will be in the custom movesets.

Personally, I don't really mind that Lucina is a clone.

You are so right. When you think about it, assuming your friends allow the custom move-sets, the clone problem really does sort of go away.

 

[Novice_Brave]

I think your definition of "clone" and the general Smash community's definition of "clone" are two different things.

She does have those "subtle differences," that make her her own character - when we say Lucina is a clone we don't mean she is a 1:1 carbon copy of everything that Marth is and does. What a "clone" is to the general Smash community is a character who shares the same moveset with another character, but has different properties - be they tied to the character's physical stats, or the properties of the moves themselves. She is confirmed to have the same moveset as Marth - posted by Sakurai on Miiverse, in an interview, and from all of the scans/videos we've seen of her so far. So yes, she is a "clone," character - but that doesn't mean she isn't her own character - her attacks will still likely have different properties (knockback, %, speed, lag, etc. etc.) and she notably does not have the tip sweetspot. She's also confirmed to be shorter, which could affect her hitboxes and other subtle - but important - things. She may also have different physical properties such as speed and weight, but he did say they were "almost identical" in that regard, so any difference there would likely be pretty minor.

So yes, Lucina is absolutely a "clone" character in Smash terminology, but don't take that as us saying she is the SAME character as Marth.

 

[KoRLumen]

I think your definition of "clone" and the general Smash community's definition of "clone" are two different things.

She does have those "subtle differences," that make her her own character - when we say Lucina is a clone we don't mean she is a 1:1 carbon copy of everything that Marth is and does. What a "clone" is to the general Smash community is a character who shares the same moveset with another character, but has different properties - be they tied to the character's physical stats, or the properties of the moves themselves. She is confirmed to have the same moveset as Marth - posted by Sakurai on Miiverse, in an interview, and from all of the scans/videos we've seen of her so far. So yes, she is a "clone," character - but that doesn't mean she isn't her own character - her attacks will still likely have different properties (knockback, %, speed, lag, etc. etc.) and she notably does not have the tip sweetspot. She's also confirmed to be shorter, which could affect her hitboxes and other subtle - but important - things. She may also have different physical properties such as speed and weight, but he did say they were "almost identical" in that regard, so any difference there would likely be pretty minor.

So yes, Lucina is absolutely a "clone" character in Smash terminology, but don't take that as us saying she is the SAME character as Marth.

I'm not sure if this is the best place to make this clarification haha. It feels like it'd be better placed where non-members of the Smash community frequent.

 

[Novice_Brave]

I'm not sure if this is the best place to make this clarification haha. It feels like it'd be better placed where non-members of the Smash community frequent.

Right xD
I was just trying to clarify since a few people in this thread seem to think "a few subtle differences" make Lucina, well, NOT a clone.

 

[SmashBro99]

Her customs are most likely the same as Marth's too.

#thread rekt

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

We don't know exactly know to what extent Lucina is a clone of Marth. She could have a copy and pasted move set and animations it she could have a few differences in her move pool. That being said, Sakurai did say that Lucina shares the same stats and physical abilities as Marth. If he wanted to tell us that Lucina is a bit different, he would have but all he said was that her hit boxes cover the sword rather the tip.

But if you think about it, giving her Marth's moves make sense given that's who she masqueraded as in the game. It's entirely canon to her character. Conversely, making Ganondorf a clone of Captain Falcon was extremely unnecessary and, quite frankly, unforgivable. Considering the abilities Ganondorf demonstrates throughout LoZ. Making Lucina a near-clone of Marth makes perfect sense given her character in FE.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Also, with Lucina's Mask. You see that, you instantly know it's not Marth, but 'Marth', who is actually Lucina, who was originally a costume for Marth.

Wait, I think I made it even more confusing now.

This. If you are playing with a Marth and Lucina and you are getting confused who is who; simply don the mask or kindly ask the Lucina to likewise.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I don't understand. Why do you want me to admit something which is untrue? That doesn't make sense to me...

So how is she different? Besides the tipper and smaller body frame I mean?

 

[Banjodorf]

So how is she different? Besides the tipper and smaller body frame I mean?

That's currently all we know that's different.

So far she seems like a more accessible Marth, which also likely took away no development time from other characters, and will be less of a zoner, so people like me who enjoy Marth's style but not the character/zoning can play her.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

The one with boobs is Marth.

Oooooooh, low blow.

Just wait till she reclasses to archer.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

That's currently all we know that's different.

So far she seems like a more accessible Marth, which also likely took away no development time from other characters, and will be less of a zoner, so people like me who enjoy Marth's style but not the character/zoning can play her.

Like me *continues partying*

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

That's currently all we know that's different.

So far she seems like a more accessible Marth, which also likely took away no development time from other characters, and will be less of a zoner, so people like me who enjoy Marth's style but not the character/zoning can play her.

AHA! So she's Roy!

Which was less of a clone than Lucina is lol

Essentially.