Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
These aren't biased opinions. They're facts.
Does your pivot grab come out before our frame 2 jab? I guess we get landing lag, too, and you get shield stun (not much), but lucas is good at doing that in particular without getting grabbed by normal grabs, and olimar has a ranged grab
Because you're never in lag of the other fsmash that you whiffed when you thought we were going to approach. There are always openings, especially if you're doing stuff.
correction: Pikmin ignite pk fire, so they'd better not be right next to you when it happens, and pikmin that are currently being used in an attack stop the bolt of the thunder, but notably not the tail.
Your pivot grab is superior to ours, I concede this point.
Extreme range has pk freeze while you have nothing. Retreating pk fires telegraph, making our range longer than that of your pikmin throw if we're at equal height, except maybe white pikmin. The reality of this though is usually either a pk fire and pikmin will clash or they'll both connect depending on the offset in height between the characters during the moves. Of course, if the olimar is dumb enough to just stand there and throw pikmin, he's gonna lose in the trades because SH pk fire > standing pikmin throw, especially if wavebounced
cool. except that our fsmash is faster, kills the pikmin and negates the damage, and when we're inside the pikmin range, our tilts are really a lot faster and you have no chance to survive make your time.
The fact that olimar camping > MK is bogus and you know it as evidenced by your wording. We can camp too, except that we have better anticamping tools. I think it's hilarious when a side b spamming olimar gets a purple reflected in his face, or gets stuck by his own pikmin. And you're underestimating pk fire. Lucas isn't under as much pressure to approach as you think.
and mine as well.
which is of course always the case. Look at melee samus vs melee fox. Fox's projectile was alright, but couldn't sufficiently pressure samus to approach on it's own. The real clincher was that fox could just sit in his shine until samus felt like approaching.
Olimar isn't comfortable at mid-long, and openings do exist. Lucas doesn't approach olimar very well. this is fact. but he can approach olimar, and the best way to do so is sliding nairs off platforms autocancelled into jabs. If it's FD, Lucas had better play well at a range to get olimar to either allow an opening to close range, or ideally force olimar to approach.
Lucas excells offstage more than everyone else. PK thunder is a critical advantage that makes pikmin chain worse than normal as a recovery. And for lucas recovering against olimar, zap jumps put him above your projectiles, and pkt recoveries from lucas are way longer than any other directional recovery in the game.
Who've you faced? The biggest problem with debates like this is that it's extremely uncommon for our best players to be geographically near your best players.
I can't agree with that number unless olimar has another good move or two that nobody's ever bothered to use against me before.
fixed for you
I like it when I **** Levitas in his sleep... but he doesn't know about that... so don't tell him.
You're approaching me. I pivotgrab. It's unpunishable. You either avoid it or get grabbed. If you avoid it, I throw more pikmin and you're forced to approach again- so you approach. I pivotgrab more. It's still unpunishable. You either get grabbed or you avoid it. Etc.
I'm not sure. I know it takes a little longer than most grabs do. If you connect a spaced nair onto the front of Olimar's shield, you might be able to get some jabs out before the grab. Shiek can do this with her nair>jab, but her's has a little bit longer range.
Before you end pkfire, a pikmin will have negated the fire and another will be flying at your face. If you decide to bat any pikmin back, you can expect to get punished during the lag of the bat with a grab.
Well, Lucas can still wavebounce the PK fire to prevent some grab attempts if spaced correctly and will still give a little pressure. For the attacking a shielded Olimar thing, you really just have to rush and do a Nair/ Dair all the way across the shield to prevent you from being grabbed when you land. If the Olimar shield grabs, you can use that window of time to counter attack since you are behind him.I'm not sure. I know it takes a little longer than most grabs do. If you connect a spaced nair onto the front of Olimar's shield, you might be able to get some jabs out before the grab. Shiek can do this with her nair>jab, but her's has a little bit longer range.
Before you end pkfire, a pikmin will have negated the fire and another will be flying at your face. If you decide to bat any pikmin back, you can expect to get punished during the lag of the bat with a grab.
If the Olimar player doesn't respond to the bat in time to go for a grab, he can just toss more pikmin. While you're in the bat lag, you'll have more pikmin flying at you. By the time you pkfire again, you'll have another pikmin flying at you with more coming. If you decide you'll try and fend off the pikmin, the Olimar player should stop throwing and try punish the lag of whichever attack you choose to knock the pikmin off with. All of your ground attacks (except maybe ftilt) can be easily punished with a grab. Assuming nair>jab doesn't work, all of Lucas' aerials can be shieldgrabbed, though it's more difficult if you use a retreating aerial.
The pressure from Olimar trying to punish your pikmin killing forces an approach from Lucas.
When you look at Olimar v Lucas at mid-range- most common when Olimar is going in to punish Lucas for any lag, Olimar outranges Lucas. He does this with grabs and fsmashes. When Olimar uses these to shield-pressure Lucas, he's technically on the offensive, but think of it as DDD is pressuring you with ftilts. He's technically approaching, but you've got to respond to the pressure. You've got to do something.
When you do that "something", that's where Olimar can begin to use pivotgrabs again. He'll sprinkle in pikmin throws in between the pivotgrabs to make sure you approach... and that's where I began this post. It's a circle.
_______________
My post may have been a bit confusing, but all-in-all, the pikmin provide too much pressure for Lucas to just stay back and fend off the pikmin. He has to keep a watchful eye on the pikmin that are flying at him while fearing that Olimar might run in to punish any pikmin killings.
It's kind of complicated.
Uh, I know you to love to dream, but you're underestimating the "lag" on PK Fire seeing that as a wave bounced PK fire will begin to fly over and through your whiffed Pikmin. PK Fire will vanguish your Pikmin throw, I'm sorry.
not really... life is ****ing beautiful...
I guess frat parties and house parties aren't too different, but generally you know a lot more people at house parties and the girls at frat parties are generally more slutty (which imo is a bad thing).
I saw your vid against Oli, And yeah you did that all the time.
