Lucas, Roy, Ryu (1.0.8) Community Patch Notes

[Quickhero]

Yes, truly this is a terrible day for Falco.

How big of a deal is that edge cancel for Falco? I'm kind of confused as to what that even was so I wouldn't think it's that big of a deal. Surely doesn't negate all the awesome buffs Falco got, right?

They're literally exact clones of each other.

If you were to play the games you would know that Lucina is a descendant of Marth, and even in-game Marth has tippers Lucina does not, so in both ways they're not literal clones. lrn2rektionary I get your point though and that makes sense.

 

[LRodC]

How big of a deal is that edge cancel for Falco? I'm kind of confused as to what that even was so I wouldn't think it's that big of a deal. Surely doesn't negate all the awesome buffs Falco got, right?

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

 

[Ffamran]

@ LordWilliam1234 , could you check Falco's landing lag on his Fair and Dair? For reference, (before the patch) Fair's landing lag is 32 and Dair is 26. Uair and Fair's startup would be nice too, but if you can't do any of this, I can understand. A2ZOMG tested Uair and said it was frame 7, but Thinkaman's data dump was unsure and said frame 8 and Thinkaman's data dump also said Fair's startup is frame 10. Before the patch, Uair was frame 10 and Fair was frame 12.

 

[A2ZOMG]

@ LordWilliam1234 , could you check Falco's landing lag on his Fair and Dair? For reference, (before the patch) Fair's landing lag is 32 and Dair is 26. Uair and Fair's startup would be nice too, but if you can't do any of this, I can understand. A2ZOMG tested Uair and said it was frame 7, but Thinkaman's data dump was unsure and said frame 8 and Thinkaman's data dump also said Fair's startup is frame 10. Before the patch, Uair was frame 10 and Fair was frame 12.

Bowser's Jab is frame 7 (unless there's hidden changes to that move that weren't documented in previous patches which I highly doubt), and activated on the same frame as Falco's U-air (using frame advance in Training mode), they trade hits.

Also, F-air is definitely 10 frames startup (tested against Ganon B-air).

 

[OtterCups]

Because this tech is fun, and it bothers me to think some rapid jabs didn't work.

Oh! Thanks for that, I had not seen that before haha

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Apologies for the potato quality as I lost my good camcorder, but this is to show that something has definitely changed with Diddy's grab since 1.0.4.

Top is 1.0.4, bottom is 1.0.8;

@ Shaya While we don't have a frame count here, I'd say this is good visual evidence that Diddy's grabs have increased lag. Posted on Page 18.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

@ LordWilliam1234 , could you check Falco's landing lag on his Fair and Dair? For reference, (before the patch) Fair's landing lag is 32 and Dair is 26. Uair and Fair's startup would be nice too, but if you can't do any of this, I can understand. A2ZOMG tested Uair and said it was frame 7, but Thinkaman's data dump was unsure and said frame 8 and Thinkaman's data dump also said Fair's startup is frame 10. Before the patch, Uair was frame 10 and Fair was frame 12.

Will do. Also got a bunch of stuff to check thanks to @ Zapp Branniglenn .

Gonna start all that tomorrow though, was doing almost nothing but frame data checks all last week so I need a break.

 

[AC_Wesley]

After a little bit of experimenting, I'm pretty sure they changed the knockback on Charizards D-Throw. It's used to shoot them to the side, but now it shoots opponents straight up.

 

[LRodC]

After a little bit of experimenting, I'm pretty sure they changed the knockback on Charizards D-Throw. It's used to shoot them to the side, but now it shoots opponents straight up.

D-Throw's changes have already been noted as well as U-Throw.

 

[Vipermoon]

ah Thanks. Then it's Marth who is oddly missing his awesome quotes?

One of Marth's biggest nerfs was losing his counter quotes.

"As if I'd let you!"
"I saw through your attack!"
"There it is! Got you!"

On another note, they literally put Falco's Fair and Uair on fast forward. Why didn't they do the same for his Dair? That's literally the main thing we've asked for. It's too slow.

 

[Aura Guardian]

Apparently Pikachu's QAC was buffed, claimed by a few people I have spoken with so far.

 

[Ffamran]

Bowser's Jab is frame 7 (unless there's hidden changes to that move that weren't documented in previous patches which I highly doubt), and activated on the same frame as Falco's U-air (using frame advance in Training mode), they trade hits.

Also, F-air is definitely 10 frames startup (tested against Ganon B-air).

Hmm, that's weird. Then again, the question marks on Thinkman's change logs don't help. Ganondorf's jab is the only jab I know that's frame 8. Fair being frame 10 is kind of weird since it feels much faster even though it's 2 frames faster now, but it also hits about 2 frames faster, so there's that. Well, it's not the frame 6 Brawl-speed Fair which would have been broken considering what Falco can already do with Fair while a frame 8 Fair would have been nice, but 2 frames faster. Now, if only they could do something about Falco's Dair and Wii Fit Trainer's too.

I trust you and Thinkman's "questionable" change log, but I'd like LordWilliam1234's gifs too.

 

[Mr.Random]

Has anyone found the knockback values and attributes of the DLC characters? I'm extremely curious to see how strong Roy up b is along with Ryu's shoryuken and Lucas up smash.

 

[Valamway]

The change to the base knockback of Zelda's upsmash is incorrect; it's KBG that increased, not BKB.

 

[Diddiot]

So basically Diddy Kong has a harder time comboing at lower percents and can no longer kill off of throws whatsoever. Thank you Sakurai.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

I'm curious, how did we figure all this stuff out for Swordfighter? We know there were frame changes, but do we know which ones and how specific? I looked through the last few pages and couldn't quite put it together; it sounds like a data dump was acquired but I can't see where.

 

[Shaya]

Someone did brief comparisons between recordings of moves between versions. Noting differences but not how much. Something like that, at least.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Ohh, okay. Sounds like it's still pending final notes then. I won't clutter this thread further unless I have concrete info to add, but thank you for the heads-up Shaya.

 

[Spaghetti Sammy]

VILLAGER'S GRAB LAG REDUCED?
GOLLY GEE GOSH IS THAT WRONG
I don't recall Villagers grab having TWO WHOLE SECONDS of lag.

 

[TriTails]

One of Marth's biggest nerfs was losing his counter quotes.

"As if I'd let you!"
"I saw through your attack!"
"There it is! Got you!"

On another note, they literally put Falco's Fair and Uair on fast forward. Why didn't they do the same for his Dair? That's literally the main thing we've asked for. It's too slow.

Now that you mentioned it. Marth speaks Japanese in the ENGLISH version (But then again. He does the same in Melee and Brawl). I understand something is going on that prevents him from speaking English (I recall it was because his games were never released outside of Japan?), but wouldn't another voice actor hurt? Oh wait. He probably Critical Hit'd the translator.

Those quotes seem awesome...

Oh yeah. Falco's D-air. Sad they didn't buff it. I mean, we need something to challenge below us. We need it (But well, Luigi doesn't have one either).

 

[Vipermoon]

Now that you mentioned it. Marth speaks Japanese in the ENGLISH version (But then again. He does the same in Melee and Brawl). I understand something is going on that prevents him from speaking English (I recall it was because his games were never released outside of Japan?), but wouldn't another voice actor hurt? Oh wait. He probably Critical Hit'd the translator.

Those quotes seem awesome...

Oh yeah. Falco's D-air. Sad they didn't buff it. I mean, we need something to challenge below us. We need it (But well, Luigi doesn't have one either).

Yeah those quotes are translated. Don't worry, it's still Japanese. He had them in his Melee and Brawl counter though you can still listen to them in the sound test in this game. But I guess his counter is so strong this time around he's too busy hitting really hard to bother saying anything.

 

[Smasher76]

Greninja got Buffed, HOLY CRAP

 

[SpottedCerberus]

Hydrant Platforming (spawning a Hydrant through a platform or stage) has been removed.
If Pac initiates up-b just as someone jumps on one of his trampolines then they fall through the stage.

Sorry if these have been mentioned, but I don't see them in the OP.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Was the DHD nair landing lag reduction confirmed anywhere, because it looks the same speed to me. Maybe it was only a few frames?

 

[TheHypnotoad]

So basically Diddy Kong has a harder time comboing at lower percents and can no longer kill off of throws whatsoever. Thank you Sakurai.

Ding, dong, the Wicked Witch is dead.

 

[Vipermoon]

I was able to sometimes Dolphin Slash out of the middle of Falco's rapid jab loop with this new jab he was given. Before it only sometimes worked to DS before the loop or after the loop before the finisher.

And while playing as Falco, this Yoshi was able Nair out of my jab (usually the loop) giving me the 11% that broken Nair deals all because I jabbed.

 

[Gidy]

Did they change the KB on diddy's Fthrow and Bthrow?

 

[Thinkaman]

Did they change the KB on diddy's Fthrow and Bthrow?

Nope!

 

[Luigi player]

Fair
hitbox 0
size 4.3 -> 4.6
x 7.0 -> 7.5
delayed hitbox 0
kbg 98 -> 97
size 4.5 -> 4.8
z 7.0 -> 7.5
hitboxes removed on frame 12-> 13 (total duration 4 -> 5)

Charizards fair changes aren't in the OP.

It stays out 1 frame longer now and even the hitboxes got bigger.

@ Thinkaman
Do you know how we can read the angles for attacks? It seems they base off of characters facing left?
Is this the same for x-position changes?

 

[Kofu]

Additionally, @ Thinkaman , were any of the 1.0.6 changes to Game & Watch to his UTilt?

 

[Thinkaman]

@ Thinkaman
Do you know how we can read the angles for attacks? It seems they base off of characters facing left?
Is this the same for x-position changes?

Facing right--it's ordinary math/trig polar conventions.

Additionally, @ Thinkaman , were any of the 1.0.6 changes to Game & Watch to his UTilt?

Nope.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

And the little electric rat gets away again.

From the perspective of a Pika main I love it. From the perspective of someone that Pika gives trouble to, I feel so bad.

 

[Ffamran]

I was able to sometimes Dolphin Slash out of the middle of Falco's rapid jab loop with this new jab he was given. Before it only sometimes worked to DS before the loop or after the loop before the finisher.

And while playing as Falco, this Yoshi was able Nair out of my jab (usually the loop) giving me the 11% that broken Nair deals all because I jabbed.

That was always a thing with Falco in Smash 4, so this is nothing new. Falco can get grabbed out by Luigi, Naired by anyone with with a frame 3 Nair like Mario, Dr. Mario, Luigi, and Sheik, Rested by Jigglypuff, Dolphin Slashed by Marth and Lucina - Dolphin Slash has I-frames, right? -, jabbed out by Fox, Captain Falcon, and the like, etc. It doesn't help that compared to to other rapid jabs where the user extends a limb like how Fox kicks out or how Kirby's stubby arms become longer, Falco puts his hurtbox out in front while spinning with his arms slightly stretched. Of all the jabs in the game, Falco's is both the worst and best. Jab 1 and 2 are amazing as he swipes in front of him while moving forward, but rapid jab is horrible since his hurtbox is right there. Seriously wished Falco had a gentleman, a regular jab combo - they could just remove his rapid jab and make it as part of the animation before he does his rapid jab finisher -, or do something like make him partially invincible since it's really stupid how Falco gets hit between jab 2 and rapid jab or gets him during rapid jab while hitting people unlike Captain Falcon, Kirby, Little Mac, Rosalina, Palutena, or Fox. Hell, they could do something "special" and make it so Falco's the only character with an incomplete jab. Sort of like Samus's - hers is more of an issue of how slow jab 2 comes out -, but more like Fox's except Falco has to pick between tilts, Smashes, shield, grab, or another option while hitting jab again too soon will just result in Falco just standing there like an idiot.

Edit: The irony is that is that apparently, Falco can transition to rapid jab 1 frame faster than previously. Probably doesn't help at all...

 

[KageJuin]

One of Marth's biggest nerfs was losing his counter quotes.

"As if I'd let you!"
"I saw through your attack!"
"There it is! Got you!"

On another note, they literally put Falco's Fair and Uair on fast forward. Why didn't they do the same for his Dair? That's literally the main thing we've asked for. It's too slow.

Saseru mono ka?!
Mikita!
Soko da!

I miss his lines.

He would play well off of Roy's SOKO!
damn shame really....

Maybe it got nerfed only in the western releases? I hear it in the Roy trailer so assumed it was back in...
1 min mark

 

[Vipermoon]

Saseru mono ka?!
Mikita!
Soko da!

I miss his lines.

He would play well off of Roy's SOKO!
damn shame really....

Maybe it got nerfed only in the western releases? I hear it in the Roy trailer so assumed it was back in...
1 min mark

I noticed it in the Roy trailer too so I was super excited that maybe they patched them in. Could be in Japanese only (explains how it's in the sound test) which would be super dumb for them to think english speakers wouldn't want that. Nintendo/Sora, if you read this thread, you know what to do for 1.0.9!!

That was always a thing with Falco in Smash 4, so this is nothing new. Falco can get grabbed out by Luigi, Naired by anyone with with a frame 3 Nair like Mario, Dr. Mario, Luigi, and Sheik, Rested by Jigglypuff, Dolphin Slashed by Marth and Lucina - Dolphin Slash has I-frames, right? -, jabbed out by Fox, Captain Falcon, and the like, etc. It doesn't help that compared to to other rapid jabs where the user extends a limb like how Fox kicks out or how Kirby's stubby arms become longer, Falco puts his hurtbox out in front while spinning with his arms slightly stretched. Of all the jabs in the game, Falco's is both the worst and best. Jab 1 and 2 are amazing as he swipes in front of him while moving forward, but rapid jab is horrible since his hurtbox is right there. Seriously wished Falco had a gentleman, a regular jab combo - they could just remove his rapid jab and make it as part of the animation before he does his rapid jab finisher -, or do something like make him partially invincible since it's really stupid how Falco gets hit between jab 2 and rapid jab or gets him during rapid jab while hitting people unlike Captain Falcon, Kirby, Little Mac, Rosalina, Palutena, or Fox. Hell, they could do something "special" and make it so Falco's the only character with an incomplete jab. Sort of like Samus's - hers is more of an issue of how slow jab 2 comes out -, but more like Fox's except Falco has to pick between tilts, Smashes, shield, grab, or another option while hitting jab again too soon will just result in Falco just standing there like an idiot.

Edit: The irony is that is that apparently, Falco can transition to rapid jab 1 frame faster than previously. Probably doesn't help at all...

You definitely weren't able to DS out of Falco's rapid jab pre-patch but like I said it worked after jab 2 and also before the finisher. Now it would make sense if it was harder to do it at those points it used to work (like you said, they have them coming out faster). But yes Marth does have frame 1-4 invincibility (hits on 5) in the aerial DS, but from the ground it's frame 4-6/7 invincibility.

It was funny/sad; I killed Falco pretty early thanks to the combination of his jab inadequacies, position on stage, and the DS kbg buff.

 

[Kofu]

Nope.

Alright, huh. You just mentioned there were some "minor unknown tweaks" in the transition and I wondered if one of them affected his UTilt since it launches at a more horizontal angle 1.0.6 and on.

 

[Ffamran]

Alright, huh. You just mentioned there were some "minor unknown tweaks" in the transition and I wondered if one of them affected his UTilt since it launches at a more horizontal angle 1.0.6 and on.

Check this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwo-patch-version-1-0-6-7-thread-updated-may-1st.398902/.

Specifically this:

Mr. Game & Watch
Up Tilt second hit knockback angle altered

 

[Mario766]

We know all about Western releases and nerfing Fire Emblem voices.

 

[Shaya]

Thinkaman's changes don't show any real differences in dancing blade either (just the third strike having a different trajectory), although we know it combos better/more reliably (db2 into air dodge or shield being usually possible for a lot of the cast no longer being the case). We have video footage that G&W's up tilt acts out differently too.

"Magic" happened, maybe there is some random bit change somewhere. Alternatively hitboxes had some engine adjustments, probably something to do with the angle reflection of a hurtbox and hitbox.

 

[Thinkaman]

Alright, huh. You just mentioned there were some "minor unknown tweaks" in the transition and I wondered if one of them affected his UTilt since it launches at a more horizontal angle 1.0.6 and on.

If they were hitbox changes like that, I'd recognize them and they wouldn't be regarded as unknown.