Lucas, Roy, Ryu (1.0.8) Community Patch Notes

[Super FOG]

Considering this is an in-game tip that is explicitly stated, this is an intended character mechanic and as such, I don't think it will ever be changed.

But this is just plain stupid. Period.

If I grabbed Rosalina, I want to pummel and throw her without being interrupted, If I broke her shield, I want to hard punish her like she deserves without being bothered (in fact, the time I spend KOing Luma after this is enough to Rosalina wake up). If they really want to keep this ridiculous mechanic, they should make luma to DIE FASTER, or take more time to Luma respawn. Instead, we have forever-living and quick-respawning Luma.

Somebody needs to teach Sakurai one lesson or another about balancing.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

But this is just plain stupid. Period.

If I grabbed Rosalina, I want to pummel and throw her without being interrupted, If I broke her shield, I want to hard punish her like she deserves without being bothered (in fact, the time I spend KOing Luma after this is enough to Rosalina wake up). If they really want to keep this ridiculous mechanic, they should make luma to DIE FASTER, or take more time to Luma respawn. Instead, we have forever-living and quick-respawning Luma.

Somebody needs to teach Sakurai one lesson or another about balancing.

I believe that the in-game tip only refers to when Rosalina is stunned from shield break, or is asleep. They patched in the inability for Luma to act while a throw animation is in progress, so I'm sure they can patch in an inability for Luma to attack while Rosalina is being grabbed in general.

 

[A_Kae]

He means in #4 if there is a way something can do more or less hitstun than usual? Like say if electric, fire, darkness, or magic attacks have some modifiers for extra hitstun.

Ah. No, I have no idea if that's the case. I've been wondering myself as to how stun is calculated. I know electric attacks have an extra 1.5x hitlag modifier, but that's not relevant to hitstun, which have their own attribute. I can say that it is based in some way off of the opponents damage and the attack damage, but no more than that.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

It should be current for smash 4. I don't remember where exactly I found it, but I do know that it was a while after it was released, and it was in a discussion about smash 4.

1. Yes.
2. Target damage is the damage of the opponent being hit. Attack Damage is the actual damage of the attack, after any move staling.
3. Yes. I'm never quite sure how to say that.
4. I'm not sure what you mean by this?

Thanks for the quick reply!

2. For the sake of my complete understanding, it sounds like target damage is assessed before damage is added? So if I get hit at 100%, and am bumped up to 110%, the equation would take target damage as 100 and attack damage as 10?
3. Ha, yeah, I guess I just like specific mathematics terminology.
4. Ah, I believe this is me trying to assess hitlag, the momentary freeze that characters undergo (think, the sweet spot on C. Falcon's knee). I confused the two. This equation does not assess hitlag, it can calculate hitstun, the number of frames until your foe regains control after being launched. So, I suppose that's my bad. Though if you know anything about hitlag calculation, let me know!

Ah, upon further research, this seems to be the Melee/Brawl formula as seen in its exact form here. I have have not yet found evidence for this being the case in Smash 4, but I'll keep a look out.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I believe that the in-game tip only refers to when Rosalina is stunned from shield break, or is asleep. They patched in the inability for Luma to act while a throw animation is in progress, so I'm sure they can patch in an inability for Luma to attack while Rosalina is being grabbed in general.

Yep. The secret to not getting a grab interrupted by Luma is to not bother pummeling Rosalina. Do the throw ASAP. Also don't try to challenge Rosalina's moves with a grab -- if she starts the move before you grab her (even if there are no hitboxes out yet), Luma will still do its own version and bop you. Most common with her jab and tilts.

Of course, if Luma is gone at the moment (either dead or just somewhere else and Rosalina hasn't recalled it*), go nuts.

*Only applies if Rosalina used Luma Shot/Warp and has NOT done the recall animation where she waves her wand gently. Once she does the wave, Luma will fly back at the earliest opportunity, even if it's helpless at the time. If the two are linked and Luma is hit away, it will also fly back without any prompting assuming it lands on solid ground. Understanding how Luma moves around is important to evaluating the risk/reward for any given situation vs. Rosalina.

 

[A_Kae]

Thanks for the quick reply!

2. For the sake of my complete understanding, it sounds like target damage is assessed before damage is added? So if I get hit at 100%, and am bumped up to 110%, the equation would take target damage as 100 and attack damage as 10?
3. Ha, yeah, I guess I just like specific mathematics terminology.
4. Ah, I believe this is me trying to assess hitlag, the momentary freeze that characters undergo (think, the sweet spot on C. Falcon's knee). I confused the two. This equation does not assess hitlag, it can calculate hitstun, the number of frames until your foe regains control after being launched. So, I suppose that's my bad. Though if you know anything about hitlag calculation, let me know!

Ah, upon further research, this seems to be the Melee/Brawl formula as seen in it's exact form here. I have have not yet found evidence for this being the case in Smash 4, but I'll keep a look out.

2. Everywhere target damage is used, the damage of the attack is added to before anything else happens, so it could just be written as the target's damage after the attack's damage is applied, but the way I have it here, yes, target damage is before the damage is added.
4. I'm not sure stun attacks use hitlag for the stun duration, but I can't really say either way. But I do know the hitlag formula, or at least I think I do, it might be wrong, but it does match up with all test that I've done.

Also, the formula I posted is different from the one on smashwiki. The bit where the knockback growth is used is different. smashwiki formula is just '*s", mine is "*s/100". Which gives a very different result, much higher.

Hitlag formula is:

((d/2.6)+5)*h

d = Attack Damge before staling.
h = Hitlag Modifier
If the attack has the electric attribute, an additional 1.5x hitlag modifier is added on to the end of the formula.
So the formula becomes "((d/2.6)+5)*h*1.5"

If you (or anyone else) has any other questions, please, don't hesitate to ask, I'd like to help as much as I can.

Edit: I found the place that I got the knockback formula from, this post:

((((((v+d)/10)+(((v+d)*d)/20))*(200/(w+100))*1.4)+18)*(g/100))+b

I cut down the post to just the formula.

Edit 2: The hitlag formula came from here: http://sixriver.web.fc2.com/ssb4/Guard_Hitstop.htm

 

[Dr. Tuen]

2. Everywhere target damage is used, the damage of the attack is added to before anything else happens, so it could just be written as the target's damage after the attack's damage is applied, but the way I have it here, yes, target damage is before the damage is added.
4. I'm not sure stun attacks use hitlag for the stun duration, but I can't really say either way. But I do know the hitlag formula, or at least I think I do, it might be wrong, but it does match up with all test that I've done.

Also, the formula I posted is different from the one on smashwiki. The bit where the knockback growth is used is different. smashwiki formula is just '*s", mine is "*s/100". Which gives a very different result, much higher.

Hitlag formula is:

((d/2.6)+5)*h

d = Attack Damge before staling.
h = Hitlag Modifier
If the attack has the electric attribute, an additional 1.5x hitlag modifier is added on to the end of the formula.
So the formula becomes "((d/2.6)+5)*h*1.5"

If you (or anyone else) has any other questions, please, don't hesitate to ask, I'd like to help as much as I can.

Edit: I found the place that I got the knockback formula from, this post:



I cut down the post to just the formula.

This is all excellent. Thank you!

Two last things!

1. For attacks that make direct contact with their foe, my understanding is that both characters incur hitlag. In fact, they both incur the hitlag calculated here. I believe that's right... right?

edit - was going to ask about hitlag formula, you got it! Thanks

 

[A_Kae]

This is all excellent. Thank you!

Two last things!

1. For attacks that make direct contact with their foe, my understanding is that both characters incur hitlag. In fact, they both incur the hitlag calculated here. I believe that's right... right?

edit - was going to ask about hitlag formula, you got it! Thanks

As far as I know, yes. The object that hits, and the object being hit take hitlag. So for projectiles, the firer does not take hitlag, the target and the projectile both do.

Edit: I should mention that the hitlag formula listed on the page that I linked, last time I checked was incorrect. It had the formula as "+2.6" rather than "/2.6". The page source has the correct formula, it's just the text on the page that's wrong. And it could have been fixed, I did this a while ago.

Edit 2: Also, as for stun effects, if it is related to hitlag, you should be able to SDI during the stun, since none of the stun moves disable SDI.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

As far as I know, yes. The object that hits, and the object being hit take hitlag. So for projectiles, the firer does not take hitlag, the target and the projectile both do.

Excellent. Here's my last question:

With respect to the knockback formula. Is it still appropriate to multiply that by 0.4 to determine hitstun frames? It seems hitstun has increased a great deal in Smash 4, though that could be due to the removed hitstun cancelling type moves (dodging and aerials to momentum cancel in Brawl). Has this 0.4 value been validated for Smash 4 in some way, and if so... where at?

Thanks for all your help, I now have some new work I can go do for the ZSS boards.

 

[A_Kae]

Excellent. Here's my last question:

With respect to the knockback formula. Is it still appropriate to multiply that by 0.4 to determine hitstun frames? It seems hitstun has increased a great deal in Smash 4, though that could be due to the removed hitstun cancelling type moves (dodging and aerials to momentum cancel in Brawl). Has this 0.4 value been validated for Smash 4 in some way, and if so... where at?

Thanks for all your help, I now have some new work I can go do for the ZSS boards.

I don't think the multiplier has been changed, (it's been 0.4x since melee), but it is simple enough to test. Just use a move, check how many frames of hitstun are received, and see if the formula gives the right number.

Any change in how much hitstun there is is probably just due to the removal of hitstun canceling.

Always happy to help! If you have any other questions, just ask.

 

[HewhosmasheS]

i don't know if anybody encountered this but when i played against bowser online he used his side-b but instead of giving me the win because we both had one stock it took it to sudden death

 

[ParanoidDrone]

i don't know if anybody encountered this but when i played against bowser online he used his side-b but instead of giving me the win because we both had one stock it took it to sudden death

Whether the game goes to sudden death or makes Bowser lose depends on the stage. FD and Omegas are not identical in this regard.

 

[shadowmm151]

Whether the game goes to sudden death or makes Bowser lose depends on the stage. FD and Omegas are not identical in this regard.

Yet another reason I prefer . He's the only one who comes out on top. all die first...or go to sudden death, but 's the only one...

Triforce of Power FTW

 

[HyperL]

I just want Rosalina and Luma to share the same damage. So if Luma is taking damage, It will also add in the % accumulation. NO MORE LUMA LIVING SHIELD.

 

[GeneralLedge]

I just want Rosalina and Luma to share the same damage. So if Luma is taking damage, It will also add in the % accumulation. NO MORE LUMA LIVING SHIELD.

That kind of defeats the point of Luma, and would make Rosalina a terrible character, with literal 0:100 MUs versus projectile spam. She'd suddenly have to /protect/ Luma instead of vice-versa, and it would be an exceedingly unfun character to play as.

I said it somewhere, but the best general Luma nerf that could occur is if Rosalina took a hit to speed while Luma's dead. That way the other player could benefit from killing Luma instead of Luma's death being fairly meaningless. How actual Rosa players would react to this idea is probably wholly negative, naturally.

 

[DarkDeity15]

That kind of defeats the point of Luma, and would make Rosalina a terrible character, with literal 0:100 MUs versus projectile spam. She'd suddenly have to /protect/ Luma instead of vice-versa, and it would be an exceedingly unfun character to play as.

I said it somewhere, but the best general Luma nerf that could occur is if Rosalina took a hit to speed while Luma's dead. That way the other player could benefit from killing Luma instead of Luma's death being fairly meaningless. How actual Rosa players would react to this idea is probably wholly negative, naturally.

I doubt a change like that would happen, as that would be a completely new mechanic to give Rosa (it's a great idea though). However a lot of characters got pretty huge changes this patch in terms of mechanics and such, so it might not be too far off.

 

[Equin0x]

@ Dr. Tuen , I don't know if you've already settled this, but one example of % received and attack % being different would be Bowser Jr, as he takes less % if his clown car is hit and more % if he himself is hit. Hope I could help!

 

[Gazel]

Amazing buffs on Ike and Falco,Ike is my favourite Fe character and see him buffed made me happy.
and i really want to see ending lag reduced on Lucina/Marth's fair!

Zss side b,they reduced the ending lag?

 

[Gusto]

Using Mewtwo, fully charged Shadow Ball doesn't kill G&W until like 120% (used to kill at like 75%)

I'll post footage in a couple hours when I get home.

 

[Ohio86]

Possible change- could have been from a while ago I don't do it often. I used a shield breaker move- typically at high percentage I hit the opponent. Today I had a low percentage opponent and I tried to push them off the ledge. They still go over the ledge but snap out of the daze immediately after doing so. I tested this again in training and it was consistent. I have a replay saved if I need to post it- but anyone can emulate that easy I am sure- and it may have been a patch before.

 

[HyperL]

That kind of defeats the point of Luma, and would make Rosalina a terrible character, with literal 0:100 MUs versus projectile spam. She'd suddenly have to /protect/ Luma instead of vice-versa, and it would be an exceedingly unfun character to play as.

I said it somewhere, but the best general Luma nerf that could occur is if Rosalina took a hit to speed while Luma's dead. That way the other player could benefit from killing Luma instead of Luma's death being fairly meaningless. How actual Rosa players would react to this idea is probably wholly negative, naturally.

Well I have another idea. I don't like the fact that even without Luma, Rosalina can still kill you with her high knockback moves. What if we remove all the kill potential of Rosa and give it all for Luma? With a some tweaks to Lumas's health and recovery time of course.
Yes, that would turn Luma in a serious threat, but Rosa wouldn't be able to finish the job without Luma.

 

[W.A.C.]

Sakurai's continuous failures at balancing this game correctly is killing my love for this game. -_- Thanks to the recent Diddy Kong nerfs, I've been unbelievably depressed. I really wish he would leave this series and put someone in charge who has a better understanding of game balance. If the game was like this initially, I doubt I would have ever played this series competitively.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Sakurai's continuous failures at balancing this game correctly is killing my love for this game. -_- Thanks to the recent Diddy Kong nerfs, I've been unbelievably depressed. I really wish he would leave this series and put someone in charge who has a better understanding of game balance. If the game was like this initially, I doubt I would have ever played this series competitively.

Diddy needed the U-air changes. The rest is probably slightly overkill.

I don't know where you get that the balance is a failure. Several underpowered characters got very important buffs that directly addressed reasons why they had trouble competitively. The overall viability of the cast in singles has progressively gotten better each patch.

 

[W.A.C.]

Diddy needed the U-air changes.

His up air is complete utter trash now. Most of the changes to it absolutely suck, but the added end lag is inexcusable and ruined the move.

 

[Mr.ケイ]

His up air is complete utter trash now. Most of the changes to it absolutely suck, but the added end lag is inexcusable and ruined the move.

Diddy's Uair can still combo, now Diddy players actually have to play smart and not just spam the hoo-haa. And speaking of moves that are utter trash, Marth's Dair is on of the (if not the) strongest contender for worst aerial in the game.

 

[ChillTerumi]

Can't confirm this right now, as I don't have the previous version, but I think Marth's/Lucina's Fair might have less ending lag; it can autocancel out of a shorthop. I tried using it out of a shorthop earilier, and I could almost do another Fair afterwards(Marth lands before the hitbox appears, though). I can make a video showing that, if you want.

 

[A_Kae]

Can't confirm this right now, as I don't have the previous version, but I think Marth's/Lucina's Fair might have less ending lag; it can autocancel out of a shorthop. I tried using it out of a shorthop earilier, and I could almost do another Fair afterwards(Marth lands before the hitbox appears, though). I can make a video showing that, if you want.

That's the way it's always been. Marth's fair autocancels after frame 36 and ends on 37, shorthop is about 40 frames total.

Trust me, if marth's fair got buffed, we'd know.

Edit: Short hop is, according to this, 41 frames total.

 

[LancerStaff]

Sakurai's continuous failures at balancing this game correctly is killing my love for this game. -_- Thanks to the recent Diddy Kong nerfs, I've been unbelievably depressed. I really wish he would leave this series and put someone in charge who has a better understanding of game balance. If the game was like this initially, I doubt I would have ever played this series competitively.

Game isn't balanced for you, and no matter who Nintendo puts in charge it still won't be balanced for hardcore play. Ain't happening. Sakurai told you to play something more competitive if SSB4 isn't to your liking months ago.

 

[Shaya]

I think this patch has gone to show some of the best dynamics we could ever hope for in a Smash game.
Abusive high/top tiers taken a few steps back, nearly all still remain viable (as long as the character can still be considered 'top 25' as much as it sucks for you as an individual, we shouldn't really complain, those nerfs likely make everyone else better at the same time). Yes they could be more than necessary, but we have 50+ characters to think about. It's unlike most fighting games and especially within the smash series, but being good at the game implies strong understanding/fundamentals that can be readily applied to most characters, individuality may not be as pronounced but in terms of getting a balanced game we're golden.

And a lot of the weak characters are getting some of their structurally poor moves buffed/reworked and buffs are coming in on weak characters in general anyway.
We're 100% certain other DLC characters are coming and it seems like almost no one is forgotten that actually needs help.

We can't expect all characters to eventually be similar strength, especially when there are various low/mid level considerations to take (99% sure this is an intended focus on their balance team: hence little/no buffs on characters with charge holding kill specials) but I think it is entirely feasible to get something where character specialists of "lower tiers" will be able to get results at high and top level by the time the patch cycle for the game concludes.

 

[SpottedCerberus]

Hydrant Platforming (spawning a Hydrant through a platform or stage) has been removed.
If Pac initiates up-b just as someone jumps on one of his trampolines then they fall through the stage.

Sorry if these have been mentioned, but I don't see them in the OP.

Do these changes not count?

But this is just plain stupid. Period.

If I grabbed Rosalina, I want to pummel and throw her without being interrupted, If I broke her shield, I want to hard punish her like she deserves without being bothered (in fact, the time I spend KOing Luma after this is enough to Rosalina wake up). If they really want to keep this ridiculous mechanic, they should make luma to DIE FASTER, or take more time to Luma respawn. Instead, we have forever-living and quick-respawning Luma.

Somebody needs to teach Sakurai one lesson or another about balancing.

Luma dies very quickly. The amount of HP he has is negligible. He's vulnerable to hitstun, and all it takes is one attack near the ledge.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Additionally, many changes are correcting things that should have been this way in the first place. You know how we all wondered "okay, why does Diddy's Uair hit on frame 3 below him? It's a better Nair than his actual Nair" or looked at frame 11 of Bowser's Utilt and said "the arm is clearly swiping at enemies in front of him, why is no hitbox being produced on this frame?". Or why are characters falling out of Samus/Zelda's Usmash without even making an effort?

Well, some of the dudes on the design team looked at these moves and said "hey yeah, what happened here?" Other than that, many of the tweaks are clearly meant for balance. If I designed Diddy with his excellent Monkey Flip mobility and bananas, and saw everybody spending entire matches going for dash grab followups, I'd be pretty upset. But Shiek, Luigi, and Rosalina were probably very much intended to be as strong as they are. They definitely seem a cut above the rest, but nobody's perfect. Balancing a 50+ roster is difficult and takes years of research and results. Project M is still struggling after four years of updates, and players still whine just as loud as the Smash 4 community has been.

Yes I think Project M is a reasonable comparison. It's the only other Smash game that gets updates based on tourney results.

As for buffs on the mid to low tiers, I don't expect to see much difference. Maybe a lot more Charizard and Ike activity at local tournaments, but those characters won't be hitting the top ten until some high profile players sit down with them. And several characters were simply missed that could use some help. Ganon, WFT, Little Mac, Bowser Jr, Mii Gunner, and Robin. I don't see how those guys are any less worthy than G&W, Marth, Metaknight, etc.

 

[nerdbot]

Considering this is an in-game tip that is explicitly stated, this is an intended character mechanic and as such, I don't think it will ever be changed.

They've changed or removed some tips in patches I believe. There used to be some that gave incorrect information based on dated pre-release facts, like saying team battles could happen as Classic Mode intruders.

I don't disagree that I doubt Rosalina will be changed on this front, I don't think an in-game tip means something is going to be concrete and solid against future balance changes.

 

[TheBattleRifle]

I am happy with this patch lol

 

[A_Kae]

I am happy with this patch lol

I think almost everyone is, aside from diddy mains.

 

[RoyNowBoyNow]

I think almost everyone is, aside from diddy mains.

I'm a Diddy main and I can't say I'm unhappy with the patch. I do believe it was overkill for him and that he was fine after the initial nerf, but Diddy still has 8056 options and mix ups and will do absolutely fine. If people begin to underestimate him, then that's great for the Diddy mains that still exist. Most that dropped him after the initial patch were terrible players that could only win by abusing an admittedly ridiculous kill option. It's good that we can now use him without any stigma.

 

[A_Kae]

I'm a Diddy main and I can't say I'm unhappy with the patch. I do believe it was overkill for him and that he was fine after the initial nerf, but Diddy still has 8056 options and mix ups and will do absolutely fine. If people begin to underestimate him, then that's great for the Diddy mains that still exist. Most that dropped him after the initial patch were terrible players that could only win by abusing an admittedly ridiculous kill option. It's good that we can now use him without any stigma.

You're the first diddy player that I've seen say something like that. Personally, I agree that the 1.0.8 nerf was a bit overkill, but that he's still a good character. It's just that most diddy players seem to think he's become one of the worst characters.

 

[GeneralLedge]

Diddy player majority feels strangely reminiscent of the reactions by real-world people with six-figure incomes getting pay-cuts.

"How will I ever survive with only 120k a year instead of 140k a year?"

Zelda and Samus working fast-food jobs and rolling their eyes.

 

[A_Kae]

Diddy player majority feels strangely reminiscent of the reactions by real-world people with six-figure incomes getting pay-cuts.

"How will I ever survive with only 120k a year instead of 140k a year?"

Zelda and Samus working fast-food jobs and rolling their eyes.

Exactly. Most Diddy players have no idea how far a character can fall. Actually, that probably applies to most top tier mains.

I expect the same sort of thing to happen if sheik, zss, rosalina, or any other of the top tiers get nerfed like diddy did.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I believe the patches are leading to a more balanced game, overall. It is a difficult thing to do, considering all factors in a 50 character cast it really is pretty impressively well balanced.
Some characters however, still need a fairly severe nerf due to fundamental design decisions.
Diddy, with a throw combo that pre-patches went from 30 - 180% and was a kill combo, that was a very bad design decision.
Sheik, designed as being un-punishably fast but low kill power, that's a terrible design decision and has not been rectified. This character needs more punish windows of opportunity and/or speed decrease. The basic design is flawed, remains flawed.
Rosalina, designed as being very high priority and almost no ability to be comboed, that's a terrible design decision and has not been rectified. This character's priority needs to drop, the hit boxes need to shrink and she should not simply be able to throw out moves casually and always win in the trade because of insane disjoints. The basic game design is flawed, remains flawed.
Samus and Zelda, designed with terrible basic projectiles and tiny hitboxes/skin tight hurtboxes is also a flawed design. Something has to give, and the most recent patch is completely insufficient.
The patches, through a combination of general changes and specific changes have actually hurt Samus overall in my opinion. F-tilt requiring surgical precision to produce kill tech chases with the additional hitboxes, the loss of missile cancelled tether trumping >> a paltry few IASA frames on grab and an upsmash that still doesn't connect correctly. Actually as other characters improve, Link for instance, Samus gets short changed even more.
When I look at the grab changes Link got this patch, and I compare to Samus' grab, I frankly think Sakurai hates Samus. It just doesn't make any rational sense. Ness absorber now has zero cooldown. He's willing to shave 10 frames off ninja's f-tilt but keep Samu's grab startup at 16 frames and the cooldown at nearly 1.5 seconds. Insane.

I am personally not happy at all with the patches, despite it getting closer to balanced overall.

 

[A_Kae]

I believe the patches are leading to a more balanced game, overall. It is a difficult thing to do, considering all factors in a 50 character cast it really is pretty impressively well balanced.
Some characters however, still need a fairly severe nerf due to fundamental design decisions.
Diddy, with a throw combo that pre-patches went from 30 - 180% and was a kill combo, that was a very bad design decision.
Sheik, designed as being un-punishably fast but low kill power, that's a terrible design decision and has not been rectified. This character needs more punish windows of opportunity and/or speed decrease. The basic design is flawed, remains flawed.
Rosalina, designed as being very high priority and almost no ability to be comboed, that's a terrible design decision and has not been rectified. This character's priority needs to drop, the hit boxes need to shrink and she should not simply be able to throw out moves casually and always win in the trade because of insane disjoints. The basic game design is flawed, remains flawed.
Samus and Zelda, designed with terrible basic projectiles and tiny hitboxes/skin tight hurtboxes is also a flawed design. Something has to give, and the most recent patch is completely insufficient.
The patches, through a combination of general changes and specific changes have actually hurt Samus overall in my opinion. F-tilt requiring surgical precision to produce kill tech chases with the additional hitboxes, the loss of missile cancelled tether trumping >> a paltry few IASA frames on grab and an upsmash that still doesn't connect correctly. Actually as other characters improve, Link for instance, Samus gets short changed even more.
When I look at the grab changes Link got this patch, and I compare to Samus' grab, I frankly think Sakurai hates Samus. It just doesn't make any rational sense. He's willing to shave 10 frames off ninja's f-tilt but keep Samu's grab startup at 16 frames and the cooldown at nearly 1.5 seconds. Insane.

Unfortunately, I don't really see sheik or rosalina getting nerfed in the ways that really matter. A big part of the way the balancing people choose what to change seems to be what the intended design was, and both of those characters do seem to function according to that. With that said, I could be totally wrong about that, or the balance team could have more emphasis on actual balance than I think.

Sheik and Rosalina are designed to be fundamentally very strong, and I just don't see any characters getting so drastically changed.

But it's not impossible.