Supersmasher10310
Smash Cadet
You can't base a characters skill on his personality if that was the case wouldn't the same go for Luigi? He is a coward or wuss. That does not mean he is a bad character that can't fight.
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Lucas or Ness?
- Thread starter Finding Waldo
- Start date
i prefer ness
baseball bat > stick
Ness meteor > Lucas meteor
Ness PKF > Lucas PKF
Ness' pk thunder is much more fast and effective. He can combo after catching someone in a PKF (PKF > d-throw > f-air is too good). And his back air when sweetspotted is a great kill move.
Ness has many benefits i feel like lots of people don't seem to realize. I do not play lucas very much so i wouldnt be able to list many of his strong points (except for the obvious: u-smash lol). Though my opinion is biased i think ness is better because his aerials are more effective and he has more priority
oh and lucas will never be able to pull off PKF > spike.
baseball bat > stick
Ness meteor > Lucas meteor
Ness PKF > Lucas PKF
Ness' pk thunder is much more fast and effective. He can combo after catching someone in a PKF (PKF > d-throw > f-air is too good). And his back air when sweetspotted is a great kill move.
Ness has many benefits i feel like lots of people don't seem to realize. I do not play lucas very much so i wouldnt be able to list many of his strong points (except for the obvious: u-smash lol). Though my opinion is biased i think ness is better because his aerials are more effective and he has more priority
oh and lucas will never be able to pull off PKF > spike.
DMan1000
Smash Apprentice
i prefer lucas he is easier to control for me
mariofanpm12
Smash Ace
Lucas's fighting style flows a bit better. If I were to compare, though...
Jab: Lucas wins. His is stronger. Ness is a bit faster, however.
F-Tilt: Lucas has more range and power here, but Ness's attack is faster.
U-Tilt: Ness gets better knockback, but Lucas's attack is stronger.
D-Tilt: Lucas has more range and power, but Ness's attack is faster.
F-Smash: Lucas's attack is faster but weaker. They both have about the same knockback, though. Lucas's attack doesn't need to be sweetspotted.
U-Smash: Ness has more overall range, but the attack is weak and lacks good knockback. Lucas's attack is extremely slow, but KOs very easily.
D-Smash: Ness once again has more range, while Lucas's is stronger with more knockback.
Nair: Ness gets more knockback, Lucas can (potentially) tack on more damage.
Fair: About tied here. Lucas's attack has to be sweetspotted for the best results. Ness has to hit with all the hits. Ness probably wins.
Bair: When sweetwpotted, Ness's attack is better. It's stronger, has more range, and more knockback. Lucas's attack is weaker, but a Spike.
Uair: Ness's attack is stronger with more kill power.
Dair: Lucas's attack is faster and stronger, but Ness's has more knockback. Both Spike.
Jab: Lucas wins. His is stronger. Ness is a bit faster, however.
F-Tilt: Lucas has more range and power here, but Ness's attack is faster.
U-Tilt: Ness gets better knockback, but Lucas's attack is stronger.
D-Tilt: Lucas has more range and power, but Ness's attack is faster.
F-Smash: Lucas's attack is faster but weaker. They both have about the same knockback, though. Lucas's attack doesn't need to be sweetspotted.
U-Smash: Ness has more overall range, but the attack is weak and lacks good knockback. Lucas's attack is extremely slow, but KOs very easily.
D-Smash: Ness once again has more range, while Lucas's is stronger with more knockback.
Nair: Ness gets more knockback, Lucas can (potentially) tack on more damage.
Fair: About tied here. Lucas's attack has to be sweetspotted for the best results. Ness has to hit with all the hits. Ness probably wins.
Bair: When sweetwpotted, Ness's attack is better. It's stronger, has more range, and more knockback. Lucas's attack is weaker, but a Spike.
Uair: Ness's attack is stronger with more kill power.
Dair: Lucas's attack is faster and stronger, but Ness's has more knockback. Both Spike.
ExCeL 52
Smash Lord
Supersmasher10310
Smash Cadet
I beg to differ. Did you see his cutscene in SSE?
prOAPC
Smash Lord
tell me exactly why bat>stick?
the bat is too slow to hit with, and to get his maximun power with the tip, while the stick is faster and doesn't need to be sweetspotted to kill, that's why it is Lucas number 1 KO move
ness' pk fire is not as good as Lucas'. The pillar is great, but a good player can easily DI of it. Ness can spam it and doesn't have a save way to use it, like Lucas does with wavebouncing. Ness PKT is way better as an attack, Lucas wins with his psi magnet because it hits, and comparing PK Flash with PK Freeze is not worth it, both attacks are not really good.
Ness wins in the air, the only moves that Lucas has to compete with Ness in the air, is nair, for his pressure and dair for his setups.
Lucas is better in the ground, his jab combo is faster than Ness', and has better tilt in overall
so far, they are like the same, exept for recovery, Ness doesn't have as many options as Lucas has. This is the main reason why i say Lucas>Ness
the bat is too slow to hit with, and to get his maximun power with the tip, while the stick is faster and doesn't need to be sweetspotted to kill, that's why it is Lucas number 1 KO move
ness' pk fire is not as good as Lucas'. The pillar is great, but a good player can easily DI of it. Ness can spam it and doesn't have a save way to use it, like Lucas does with wavebouncing. Ness PKT is way better as an attack, Lucas wins with his psi magnet because it hits, and comparing PK Flash with PK Freeze is not worth it, both attacks are not really good.
Ness wins in the air, the only moves that Lucas has to compete with Ness in the air, is nair, for his pressure and dair for his setups.
Lucas is better in the ground, his jab combo is faster than Ness', and has better tilt in overall
so far, they are like the same, exept for recovery, Ness doesn't have as many options as Lucas has. This is the main reason why i say Lucas>Ness
prOAPC
Smash Lord
lol
have you heard about zap jump, magnet pull, tether and wave zap?
oh, and Lucas PKT2 is easier to control and reach longer
^^ok, my bad, i just dont know much about lucas' metagame. and i put SO much effort into Ness man i just havent spent much time on the ness boards.
i know more than the kid who said that ness' bat is his only kill move
prOAPC, were all those only for lucas or were some of those recovery options for ness as well?
i know more than the kid who said that ness' bat is his only kill move
prOAPC, were all those only for lucas or were some of those recovery options for ness as well?
mimic_king
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,002
Im not sure who is better, but one thing is for sure. Ness is NOT a downgraded version of Lucas. Im going to shoot anyone who says that.
JK
mariofanpm12
Smash Ace
These character comparison threads are so biased.
On a general outlook, Lucas is better and easier to learn and play.
Ness takes more time and skill to master, and has a more technical playstyle.
On a general outlook, Lucas is better and easier to learn and play.
Ness takes more time and skill to master, and has a more technical playstyle.
Glick
Smash Lord
Ness is full of combos and juggling fun.
Lucas is meh. Boring.
Lucas is meh. Boring.
Veggi
Smash Champion
I think Lucas is a lot better, his tilts and smashes combo from his air moves (I don't get how people can think Ness is better at it, have you seen Lucas' dair and nair? Incredible.) His bair can even combo to his ground moves, I got a jab lock the second time I tried playing as him. His forward smash is insane, it comes out really fast and it killed me from the center of Battlefield at 94%. People say his up smash sucks, it's like one of the best in the game, G&W's is considered way over-powered, but Lucas' is just a couple frames slower, but it has much better range, great priority and it's like an upwards Falcon Punch. His upsmash is great, Lucas' down smash does huge damage at low percents because it scores more than one hit, it has good power at high percents and it is unsafe to be hitwith on both block and spot dodge because of it's lingering hit box and it eats shields. None of his smashes can be punished after shielding, and his smashes will hit even if you spot-dodge with the exception of forward smash which is difficult if not impossible to punish after spot-dodging it.
People also say his air game sucks, when it is actually very good, both his dair and bair meteor and Lucas' dair is more reliable as both a meteor smash and a normal attack, which can also be used to approach btw. His fair is not bad at all and actually seems to have good range and power, his uair is pretty good too as it connects easily out of his second jump. I don't even have to tell you how good his nair is, it does good damage, range, lingering hitbox, and combos into a lot of moves. His dair will even chain into his upsmash, that's insane. Everyone knows how good his standard ground game is, so I'll move into his camp game.
Lucas' PK Fire does more damage and pushes people away, Ness' can be DI'd easily. Lucas' PK Thunder also has more potential for damage than Ness' because it can loop. Lucas' down b is better as well because it protects him on both sides and it can actually kill. Ness' backthrow is better, but the rest are not as good as Lucas' and Lucas can kill with his as well, but Ness' backthrow is stonger. Lucas also has a jab that comes out in two frames. I don't need to tell anyone how much better of a recovery Lucas has than Ness.
Lucas' edgeguarding game is better because his nair can chain to his dair and his nair brings people down with him. His bair and dair are meteorsmash, which are good for edgeguarding and his PK Thunder pushes people away. Also, up smash while edgeguarding is great.
Statistically, he is also faster than Ness both on the air and on the ground, however I prefer to use Ness.
People also say his air game sucks, when it is actually very good, both his dair and bair meteor and Lucas' dair is more reliable as both a meteor smash and a normal attack, which can also be used to approach btw. His fair is not bad at all and actually seems to have good range and power, his uair is pretty good too as it connects easily out of his second jump. I don't even have to tell you how good his nair is, it does good damage, range, lingering hitbox, and combos into a lot of moves. His dair will even chain into his upsmash, that's insane. Everyone knows how good his standard ground game is, so I'll move into his camp game.
Lucas' PK Fire does more damage and pushes people away, Ness' can be DI'd easily. Lucas' PK Thunder also has more potential for damage than Ness' because it can loop. Lucas' down b is better as well because it protects him on both sides and it can actually kill. Ness' backthrow is better, but the rest are not as good as Lucas' and Lucas can kill with his as well, but Ness' backthrow is stonger. Lucas also has a jab that comes out in two frames. I don't need to tell anyone how much better of a recovery Lucas has than Ness.
Lucas' edgeguarding game is better because his nair can chain to his dair and his nair brings people down with him. His bair and dair are meteorsmash, which are good for edgeguarding and his PK Thunder pushes people away. Also, up smash while edgeguarding is great.
Statistically, he is also faster than Ness both on the air and on the ground, however I prefer to use Ness.
mimic_king
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,002
Ness:
better PK thunder
better b move
stronger standard attacks, except for up smash and down smash where Lucas is better
better throws
slower
harder
better PK fire
Lucas:
better PSI magnet
better up and down smashes
weaker attacks except up and down smash
faster
easier
I think Lucas is better, but that doesn't mean Ness is a completely downgraded version of Lucas, though many people think so. Ness has some advantages, but Lucas is the winner.
better PK thunder
better b move
stronger standard attacks, except for up smash and down smash where Lucas is better
better throws
slower
harder
better PK fire
Lucas:
better PSI magnet
better up and down smashes
weaker attacks except up and down smash
faster
easier
I think Lucas is better, but that doesn't mean Ness is a completely downgraded version of Lucas, though many people think so. Ness has some advantages, but Lucas is the winner.
Crazy_mofo213
Smash Lord
I perfer Ness over Lucas.
DMan1000
Smash Apprentice
yeah i saw it. it was one of my favorite
ExCeL 52
Smash Lord
Luigi Owns.. Just cause in brawl King DDD owns him with a hammer it doesn't mean anything...Play Luigi's Mansion his fear drives him into courage .. dont mess with the man in green
You cannot grasp neither of their attack power if you do not first understand the concept that this is just another G&W or Meta Knight thread.
I use these to emphasize the drastic differences between both characters, If you cannot see it well... Meta Knight has a sword while while G&W has a turtle.
I use these to emphasize the drastic differences between both characters, If you cannot see it well... Meta Knight has a sword while while G&W has a turtle.
Supersmasher10310
Smash Cadet
Im not hateing on Luigi. I like Luigi. Luigi's mansion is a great game. But I won't elaborate on that because this is not a Luigi Thread.
Illomatic
Smash Apprentice
overall they're both good but i give it to lucas
his up smash is insanely powerful, as with his down smash
but ness has the baseball bat...which owns lucas's...er..stick, haha
his up smash is insanely powerful, as with his down smash
but ness has the baseball bat...which owns lucas's...er..stick, haha
prOAPC
Smash Lord
those were only for Lucas, Ness only has PK Thunder
FireKirby7
Smash Lord
Why do Ness and Lucas always get in arguements?
Why not Marth and Ike, Mario and Luigi. This arguement has been done since last year. This thread needs to stop.
Why not Marth and Ike, Mario and Luigi. This arguement has been done since last year. This thread needs to stop.
Frown
poekmon
Because Luigi IS better than Mario and Marth IS better than Ike.
Lucas and Ness are next to each other on the tier list, which opens for debate.
Levitas
the moon
It was worse before that. Animosity has been present between the two since Lucas was announced for brawl.
It's kind of childish. Which is fitting.
It's kind of childish. Which is fitting.
mimic_king
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,002
Bats are for noobs. Lucas uses a weak stick and it's still powerful.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Levitas
the moon
Feel free to try.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Kirbichu
Smash Apprentice
Well, Lucas seems more powerful, but Ness feels so familiar (playing a lot of 64) so I like to use Ness more.
Thats why i didnt know them; thats why i thought they both only had one recovery option..cause ness only has one. Im not a big lucas player he's probably my least used character.
Please explain to me how lucas' pk fire is better...it sucks. It has zero priority. Ness can catch you with the lasting flames and combo or grab you out of them, not to mention the PK Fire > d-air combo you can pull off
Golem the Stern Father
Smash Champion
I would have to agree that Ness' PK Fire is better than that of Lucas.
Lucas' PK fire has too much start-up lag, that the opponent would easily spot-dodge and punish him if he were too close. Plus, the painfully obvious sound animation to the start-up of his attack gives it away as well. A positive to Lucas' PK fire is that if used in the air and he lands on the ground immediatley after it is released, his end lag is cut.
If Ness uses PK fire on the ground, it can easily be spot-dodged and punished easily because of the end lag of his attack. The end lag is even worse when Ness lands after he uses PK fire in the air.
However, there is an interesting little tech. that I use with Ness when I want to trap my opponents in it's vortex:
When you jump with Ness, make sure that you do not short-hop, it will not work. Second, when you start his jumping animation (whether you use the control stick up or x or y), immediatley use PK fire (it doesn't matter if you use B + --> or B-stick + -->), though I find B + --> better. I almost forgot, you have to make sure that you space yourself enough so that his diagonal PK fire will hit. After the PK fire animation, immediately use the shield button (L or R). This will make him perform an air-dodge animation, making him do an air-dodge landing animation, rather than his very laggy PK fire while airborne landing animation.. Even if you miss, you will be able to recover to his standing position without being punished beforehand. If you hit, you will be able to follow-up with some interesting combo's that a Ness main would know (I wouldn't know, I'm not a Ness main).
I could do an instructional video on this, but I have a s***ty camera, and would take quite a bit of time...
Please, explain why. You do nothing by simply posting a statement without support for that claim. I would have accepted this if you quoted previous posts from this or any other thread, but no. I can easily tell you're a newbie, not to flame or insult you (which is probably the tone that is percieved in the reader's eyes, other than myself).
Also, weren't you the same guy who bumped this thread a while back?
.________.
mimic_king
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,002
That was a mistake. I meant to say it was worse.
Golem the Stern Father
Smash Champion
Ok, so it has been established that Nessa' PK fire is superior, can we go in more depth about any of his other mores, or has it been clearly established in all other categories? (Recovery, other b-specials, aerials, throws/grabs, etc.).
We can start by debating on better grabs: standing grab, running grab. The throws (up, down, right, left) might be obvious, IDK. I haven't debated in here because I thought this thread would be a waste of time...
Oh, and mimic king, did you notice the parody to IWontGetOverTheDam's little fad in my signature?
We can start by debating on better grabs: standing grab, running grab. The throws (up, down, right, left) might be obvious, IDK. I haven't debated in here because I thought this thread would be a waste of time...
Oh, and mimic king, did you notice the parody to IWontGetOverTheDam's little fad in my signature?