Social Lucario Social: Aura Dog Days of Summer

[Pitbuller26]

I can tell you this, exploring "new" options is a waste of time when we have such crap range on everything not named Aura Sphere.

In a game where most characters have near or certain guaranteed kill options and we have ours taken away, that kills Lucario's viability in a competitive setting. The buff in walk and air speed means nothing.

 

[Masonomace]

Probably. Unfortunately yet fortunately I don't primary Lucario so I see this as, "well I guess I may not play Lucario as much". Buffing Mega Lucario's ASC BKB is hilarious though. . .

Also how did that WIFI tournament go? I may decide to join a Lucario Discord community so that I can at least try to keep up with the character.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

I can tell you this, exploring "new" options is a waste of time when we have such crap range on everything not named Aura Sphere.

In a game where most characters have near or certain guaranteed kill options and we have ours taken away, that kills Lucario's viability in a competitive setting. The buff in walk and air speed means nothing.

Bruh, who took a crap in your cereal today.

Nerfs happen, it's dumb but it happens. ASC JCU is still a kill setup albeit we have to wait until we're at larger aura and our reaction time needs to be quicker.

ASC to bair is still true on most of the cast, but it's a lot less finicky. Seriously, you are acting like quite a child in terms of dealing with this. Either try to help us make the most of his nerf, stop being such a Debbie Downer, or **** off and switch to Mario. Your choice

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Probably. Unfortunately yet fortunately I don't primary Lucario so I see this as, "well I guess I may not play Lucario as much". Buffing Mega Lucario's ASC BKB is hilarious though. . .

Also how did that WIFI tournament go? I may decide to join a Lucario Discord community so that I can at least try to keep up with the character.

I cancelled it since Nintendo was doing maintenance when I scheduled it and a patch was gonna drop.

Gonna rehost it after Christmas at some point, probs the 27th.

Also airspeed buffs and stronger fall speed pits lucario in top 10 for vertical sirvivability apparently.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Bruh, who took a crap in your cereal today.

Nerfs happen, it's dumb but it happens. ASC JCU is still a kill setup albeit we have to wait until we're at larger aura and our reaction time needs to be quicker.

ASC to bair is still true on most of the cast, but it's a lot less finicky. Seriously, you are acting like quite a child in terms of dealing with this. Either try to help us make the most of his nerf, stop being such a Debbie Downer, or **** off and switch to Mario. Your choice

Woah woah woah.

Look I get the disagreement and I agree with you in this but you don't need the nasty tone at the end. Let's just be firm with disagreement and figure out what to do here is what I say.

That said, I don't think the change to ASC is that big, the other stuff is pretty substantial.

 

[Loota]

I knew the community in general is quite pessimistic about Lucario but whoa, I didn't expect so much wrist slitting. Lucario didn't change that much into anything, he's just as good or even better due to those mobility buffs. They do matter, don't kid yourself people. We've still going to be able to land those JC upsmashes from ASC and flinging those blue balls of death just as consistently as before even if AS may kill a bit later (though I keep hearing the KBG nerf affects only the charge?). Personally I'm really looking forward on utilizing that tiny bit of extra mobility which is quite noticeable in the end from initial testing.

Step it up people, git gud or something, life certainly doesn't end here. If you think these changes actually make him plummet in viability, there may be something wrong in your game altogether.

 

[r_greening1]

I can tell you this, exploring "new" options is a waste of time when we have such crap range on everything not named Aura Sphere.

In a game where most characters have near or certain guaranteed kill options and we have ours taken away, that kills Lucario's viability in a competitive setting. The buff in walk and air speed means nothing.

It's a little early to be making those claims don't you think? The movement buffs could open up some new options, but you would never know. :^)

 

[Masonomace]

I feel that ASC JCU is still true, but you have to be a lot quicker in that you should be consistently be performing ASC into JCU without seeing your bubble shield appear. So if you don't even see the shield bubble while you JCU, then you're most likely going to connect it more reliably. Really we just have to be more strict & quick with the input.

And omg the air speed buff makes Reverse Aerial Rush B-Reverse Aura Sphere Charges fantastic. I love this. Even just a B-Reverse ASC for a landing mixup became improved.

 

[AureusVulpes]

I got a few kills using ASC JCU today in some friendlies, so at least where I play it still works.

Also, it caught a few people who normally get away off guard. When I told them Lucario now drops AND moves faster they were like "Ok, yeah. That's balanced".

Seeing some salt from non-lucarios about the adjustments made me happy.

 

[Browny]

ASC to bair is still true on most of the cast

Is it?

I've never been hit by it when its attempted on me, I've airdodged it 100% of the time. If its harder to pull off now I dont see how its true...

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

ASC needs to do enough for the BAir 16 frames start up and the jump which I don't know, but let's just guess 4 frames. You need 20 frames in that case of hitstun, which is not something you'll see until like 130%...

 

[nannerham]

You guys also have ASC uair

Edit: I know ASC up smash works at later % (probably should've cleared that up) I'm just pointing out that ASC up air is still an option, a good one at that didn't mean for the title to be misleading, I think lucario will be fine and honestly that air speed buff make fair strings even easier to do, opens up new combo possibilities, buffs his recovery, and helps him with ASC shinanegins hes certainly not gonna plummet into bottom tier.

 

[Rysir]

What fish slapped ninny said ASC JCU was dead? It just work at a higher % now and Im pretty sure we always had ASC Uair.

 

[Steam]

Asc upsmash no longer combos at %s it won't kill at anyways? Oh noooooo

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Asc upsmash no longer combos at %s it won't kill at anyways? Oh noooooo

stem, where have you been?

You guys also might want to use Eeveecario's hitstun calculator tinyurl.com/hitstuncalc for all of your combo finding needs.

Someone also did the frame advantage vs. shields for Lucario based off of the Aura Chart. I'll retrieve that off of the Lucario Discord when I get home today. Don't know who did it, but we appreciate you!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...fZIiBdGv6xOFk/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=782172050

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...fZIiBdGv6xOFk/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=617910144

 

[Shinymonkey8]

Also airspeed buffs and stronger fall speed pits lucario in top 10 for vertical sirvivability apparently.

I feel like people should be talking about this more. I was surviving Mario usmash until over 130% yesterday, survivability is hugely important for Lucario.

 

[Masonomace]

I'm definitely noticing the air speed & fall speed difference now the more I'm playing the character. Heck, it basically seems like Lucario's everything-speed slightly increased just ups his overall game-play. So back to the fall speed increase, this could damper Lucario some for when vertical combos via throws come into play, but the air speed increase at work here means we can DI away from a throw followup a bit more easily. Overall, surviving at later percents resisting vertical knockback is a plus. Dat Aura level yo.

Also, air speed buff means for me lately that I don't even feel the need to even ES recover half the time.

 

[smbmaster99MFGG]

I posted this in the patch notes thread but I'm sick of all this pessimism so I'll just copy/paste what I said there (with some references to what others here have said).

ASC u-smash isn't as hard to do now as some people are making it out to be. I've only missed two since the patch went live: the first one was because my opponent was too far behind me for the hitbox to connect (should've d-air'd instead for more damage; the u-smash probably wouldn't have killed at the % my opponent was at anyway), and the second one was because I got hit by a luma that was returning to Rosa before the second, strong hit could connect. I went to a weekly this last Thursday and landed at least 6 ASC JCUS for kills, 4 of which were in bracket matches, and the rest were in friendlies. Also, as Steam and others have pointed out, you likely won't be (or at least should really try to avoid) using ASC JCUS until you feel like your opponent is at kill %, so there's really no point in being upset here.

ASC b-air is the real problem. It's a lot more % specific, but you can still hit tall and/or floaty characters with it. I managed to get Rosa at 30% (but why would you do that unless you were at max Aura and at the ledge anyway :y ). Basically it's more likely to connect if lucario's damage is above something like 60% and the opponent's is above 90% (give or take depending on character fall speed and size) from what I've seen...so basically kill % :y

TL;DR -- I've personally had zero problems landing ASC JCUS since the patch so it's sitll a reliable kill setup, but ASC B-air is a lot more % specific (usually need to wait until the opponent is at or above kill % and lucario is above 60-ish%) and harder to land, but it's still doable and if within the right % range it's a kill confirm

 

[yessi]

So I was planning on making a video showcasing Lucario doing a "lagless ledge get-up" in the same fashion I made the Aura Sphere Shield Drop video, in which I do it consistently, and show some examples of different ways of using it in game.

However, since the latest patch, I have not been able to do it a single time, no matter how much I tried. Before the patch, I have been able to do it semi-consistently, with 7 being the most times done in a row.

My method was similar to the JohnnstR way, in which I input an attack to land on the stage (See http://www.gfycat.com/EmbellishedRelievedAmericanbulldo for reference). What I did instead was replace FAir with NAir.

How I did it specifically was while hanging on the ledge, I tap back on the stick, quickly hold forward until Lucario is almost directly under the edge, then jump and input NAir, and immediately tap forward.

I've had it in the back of my mind for some time, and I didn't just want to let it die without going noticed. Actually learning it was really time consuming and very hard to preform. I thought it was just a little fun thing to do at the time, but now having all those weeks learning it, to now not be able to do it once is a real turn-off.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

So if Mario and Lucario are at 70% one hit of ASC does 16 frames of hitstun as of the current patch.

So what takes 16 or less frames?

• USmash first hit 15 frames.
• Shield drop 7 frames plus either dash grab or FP Grab which are 9 frames iirc.
• Regular grab.
• Every Air attack other than BAir.
• Firing AS from charge stance 6 frames.

So guys, especially with our speed buffs I think we need to work trying to hit people with ASC when they use their second jump because of how limited their options are...

• If we force a landing there will be a bonus 2-5 frames from landing lag we can hit them. If they air dodge and fail to cancel that lag that's a free anything.
• If they have a charge move that is cancelable on shield that's still at least 2-3 frames we could FP grab them.
• If they Up B and we read it that's a free Smash or Sphere.

What do you think? If we start really pressuring someone who used their second jump post 70-80+ we could land stuff like BAirs a bit more reliably if we force a landing.

 

[JohnnstR]

So I was planning on making a video showcasing Lucario doing a "lagless ledge get-up" in the same fashion I made the Aura Sphere Shield Drop video, in which I do it consistently, and show some examples of different ways of using it in game.

However, since the latest patch, I have not been able to do it a single time, no matter how much I tried. Before the patch, I have been able to do it semi-consistently, with 7 being the most times done in a row.

My method was similar to the JohnnstR way, in which I input an attack to land on the stage (See http://www.gfycat.com/EmbellishedRelievedAmericanbulldo for reference). What I did instead was replace FAir with NAir.

How I did it specifically was while hanging on the ledge, I tap back on the stick, quickly hold forward until Lucario is almost directly under the edge, then jump and input NAir, and immediately tap forward.

I've had it in the back of my mind for some time, and I didn't just want to let it die without going noticed. Actually learning it was really time consuming and very hard to preform. I thought it was just a little fun thing to do at the time, but now having all those weeks learning it, to now not be able to do it once is a real turn-off.

Yep, it definitely has changed.

The problem with it being "lagless" is that you still receive the landing lag from the aerial, with other characters you just receieve the normal jump lag.

 

[JohnnstR]

And idk why people aren't talking about this aerial speed buff, it has helped me so much in recent sets while edgeguarding and going offstage. It also helps a ton with linking aerials even when your opponent is holding away. Not to mention the increased range of b reverse and wavebouncing options, and drop off jumping onstage from the ledge.

We can also fastfall nair/bair faster which is nice.

Also I've noticed dtilt links into aerials a ton better


Damn this mobility is nice.

 

[Nysyr]

Could be hallucinating but I think falling Uair landing has some IASA frames now. Can link Uair to Utilt on a fair number of characters at low %s

 

[Kyzael]

Well, I'll apologize if this statement sounds stupid and/or if it's been mentioned before.

I did some playing around with KO potential of ES, other than just ES across the stage to hit someone. (I've done this multiple times, thankfully to my success)

But I was just exterminating with the more reliable KO options for ES. (Even though, this trick isn't reliable to begin with)
But say Mario and Lucario at 120%. Lucario can Up-throw and as soon as it allows, ES into Mario to net the KO.
And when around 135%, you can also use D-throw and ES and get a KO.

Again, I already can see how this isn't as reliable as any of his other options but I thought it's just something that should be kept in mind when playing. And my reasoning behind that is that using ES to get a KO could just catch someone off-guard.

An example is when my friend were just doing a series of matches and were both above 120%+. Both on the other side of the stage, just trying to see what to do next. I just ES into him and take the stock. (This was horizontally across the stage, not using the trick I mentioned above)

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Well, I'll apologize if this statement sounds stupid and/or if it's been mentioned before.

I did some playing around with KO potential of ES, other than just ES across the stage to hit someone. (I've done this multiple times, thankfully to my success)

But I was just exterminating with the more reliable KO options for ES. (Even though, this trick isn't reliable to begin with)
But say Mario and Lucario at 120%. Lucario can Up-throw and as soon as it allows, ES into Mario to net the KO.
And when around 135%, you can also use D-throw and ES and get a KO.

Again, I already can see how this isn't as reliable as any of his other options but I thought it's just something that should be kept in mind when playing. And my reasoning behind that is that using ES to get a KO could just catch someone off-guard.

An example is when my friend were just doing a series of matches and were both above 120%+. Both on the other side of the stage, just trying to see what to do next. I just ES into him and take the stock. (This was horizontally across the stage, not using the trick I mentioned above)

Probably will not hit unless the opponent is careless or if they habitually air dodge after being thrown. Incredibly flashy and you can probably pull it off on a lot of For Glory players. If you land it on stream though... Hyppppppeee.

And idk why people aren't talking about this aerial speed buff, it has helped me so much in recent sets while edgeguarding and going offstage. It also helps a ton with linking aerials even when your opponent is holding away. Not to mention the increased range of b reverse and wavebouncing options, and drop off jumping onstage from the ledge.

We can also fastfall nair/bair faster which is nice.

Also I've noticed dtilt links into aerials a ton better


Damn this mobility is nice.

Pursuing Sonics who main Side B to hitting shield to to jump is a bit easier now.

Faster speed means we travel faster and further with BReverses... Including sliding a bit further with grounded BReverse stuffs. Love it.

How many of you mix RARs with BReverses?

 

[Masonomace]

How many of you mix RARs with BReverses?

Mememe. RAR B-Reverse basically looks like a WaveBounce, so when you run up to someone & then RAR B-Reverse away from them, they likely get shook & stay in shield if they had it already up during your approach towards them.

Doing it in Neutral by itself makes them think twice before approaching if they do. It helps me create a situation where if they take the bait, I teach 'em the old Brawl Lucario 101 punish game.

 

[nannerham]

Lucario's buffs are actually amazing, before this patch there were quite a few characters that danced around him and there really wasn't much he can do about it, but now i find the MUs that i struggled with are easier to handle and that extra mobility make me feel way more comfortable (still think fox bops us though), and as for ASC JCU i'm using audio cues from the charge of aura sphere's hitbox to help with my timing, if your at 40% aura and your opponent is around 110%-120% if you hit within the first two hits of aura sphere's charge then ASC JCU registers as a true combo, and obviously the higher your aura the lower the threshold is for the opponent's %'s. Personaly I'm loving the new changes I just wanted to know how people are dealing with the changes and whether they like or dislike them.

 

[Kyzael]

Well i'm personally experiencing some new problems. Or I guess problem for right now. I've been having to play on the 3DS for awhile now since my gamepad broke and I eventually got down on how to ASC->JCU on the3DS but now i'm back on the WiiU and i'm just messing it up. I just end up grabbing randomly after landing the ASC on my opponent.

x.x Using the Gamecube controller. Back when on the 3DS, I was sliding my thumb over Y and A when inputting the JCU and it'd work fine. Not doing it here so well though.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Hey guys, the wifi tournament is still going on and is being run and talk with on Discord, It'll be at 8 PM cst.

Just a reminder.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

@nahgato I'm having Discord problems. Mind adding me on Skype?

 

[Masonomace]

@nahgato I'm having Discord problems. Mind adding me on Skype?

My Discord just came back on. Try again.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

It's fine now. Thanks to #HBC | Red Ryu for hosting! It was fun.

 

[Nysyr]

Sometimes I like to imagine how much fun we could have if ASC could be cancelled by inputting an attack within like the first 5 frames or so of startup (before the hitbox, since that would be a bit bork, no?). Kind of like Shiek needle cancel.

 

[TailLover]

yo sorry to butt in, but I wanted to ask some stuff.

I am TailLover, and I really love tails, and one thing that I wanted to do going into the new year was once again try to seriously learn most of the characters that have tails, not for tournament play (Gonna try for Cloud and others for that) but so that I can be the tail master...so to speak, in friendlies. (And who knows, I may be able to pull said character out in a tournament match, though that's not my intent).

So thus I want to learn Lucario, he has a nice tail, is there a Lucario Discord chat I can join for some starting tips, or even just post here for some starting tips would be great too. Thanks in advance!

 

[Pitbuller26]

Yeah, Lucario vs. Cloud. Don't do this matchup. It's infuriating.

 

[AureusVulpes]

Yeah, Lucario vs. Cloud. Don't do this matchup. It's infuriating.

I feel your pain. A firend of mine bought Cloud's DLC and he let me 1 v cpu for a bit while he ran errands and, good lord the lv9 cpu seems to have everything staked in its favor. he's so fast compared to his Dissidia form (which, granted, he was bottom tier because of his speed, everyone wrecked Clouds.), and when you compare his size and speed to his sword, and Ike's size and speed to HIS sword, well.... it doesnt look right lol.

Cloud has A LOT going for him vs. us. it IS really frustrating. it seems like he has a way around literally everything we can throw. limit blade beam even clashes with 120% AS.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

On an unrelated note....the social thread is now on its 69th page!

 

[Pitbuller26]

I feel your pain. A firend of mine bought Cloud's DLC and he let me 1 v cpu for a bit while he ran errands and, good lord the lv9 cpu seems to have everything staked in its favor. he's so fast compared to his Dissidia form (which, granted, he was bottom tier because of his speed, everyone wrecked Clouds.), and when you compare his size and speed to his sword, and Ike's size and speed to HIS sword, well.... it doesnt look right lol.

Cloud has A LOT going for him vs. us. it IS really frustrating. it seems like he has a way around literally everything we can throw. limit blade beam even clashes with 120% AS.

Pretty much. A character that has more range, faster and safe moves, and kills early, not to mention just how active Cloud's hitboxes are. Cloud is definitely one of our worst matchups by far since we can't really threaten him at all because of just how good his buttons are in neutral. I'm very close to believing Cloud may be our worst matchup.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Lucario and Cloud dislike landing near each other.

You can gimp Cloud like you gimp Ike and Shulk, since Cloud only sweet spots the ledge near the start of his regular Up B. Snipe him with AS. It is harder to hit him out of his Limit Break Up B, but still possible.

Don't challenge Cloud's UAir unless if you read it so hard you DT it.

Cloud's air attacks are not safe on shield. If he uses them to just space just slap his landing with an Aura Sphere.

Upwards of like 80% don't mindlessly jump around. Cloud's FSmash will kill you.

If you keep in mind Cloud's moves are generally not safe on whiff or shield I think you'll do better. Also Cloud has next to no "combos" out of a grab and his strongest throw will not kill until like 180%ish. You may have to play a bit more defensive then usual, but seriously... What is going to do if you're careful about your movements?

Sure, Finishing Touch kills at 60%, but that requires a hard read and if you are hanging out in the air at that point you are asking to die.

 

[Nysyr]

Pretty much. A character that has more range, faster and safe moves, and kills early, not to mention just how active Cloud's hitboxes are. Cloud is definitely one of our worst matchups by far since we can't really threaten him at all because of just how good his buttons are in neutral. I'm very close to believing Cloud may be our worst matchup.

I would crosspost my SD discussion, but this summed it up.

Welcome to our first -3. Sit in shield against him or die. Literally only way to win is go for early gimps before FT + Rage kills us before 60%