Social Lucario Social: Aura Dog Days of Summer

[Croi]

https://discord.gg/0eIydPoHSjOm63dV

Feel free to come to the Lucario Discord chat, guys.

Yeah, we need to mitigate the traffic a bit, this thread is just moving too fast

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Gotta go fast.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I got the true ending on Day 1. So, I wasn't spoiled at all.

I can't choose a favorite. I do like CORE a lot though.

My favorite is this,

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

My favorite is this,

I blame you for Waifuzard that I so happened to doodle.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

I blame you for Waifuzard that I so happened to doodle.

the picture is broken

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

the picture is broken

Ah, didn't realize it didn't appear on mobile, now it is fixed, lol.

 

[ChikiLucario]

Uncharged AS can jab lock. Mewtwo has slightly more practical ways to set his jab lock.

WH-- ARE YOU SERIOUS I HAVE TO GO TEST THIS when I wake up ;w;

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I blame you for Waifuzard that I so happened to doodle.

I knew someone drew it lol.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Hey guys though we could use a little more livehood around here.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Kuap3f5lKnnqLJNMHC59qxcf_Fcwncq-e2lS3nEyAFc/edit?usp=sharing

I'll be hosting a wifi tournament in the Discord group next monday, I'm giving out a free $1 giftcard to amazon to the winner. Just gotta be int eh discord group to do it, I'll be doing these more regularly as well.

 

[Rysir]

Question!

How does a tournament based around Discord increase activity here? Would it not cause more activity at the Discord and less here?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Question!

How does a tournament based around Discord increase activity here? Would it not cause more activity at the Discord and less here?

Wanted to use a chat for the tournament, that needs something to organize it over here where it can be messy.

Plus I can run it on mobile if something comes up for me of something happens.

It's run for these boards but I am running the chat part in discord.

 

[Rysir]

Wanted to use a chat for the tournament, that needs something to organize it over here where it can be messy.

Plus I can run it on mobile if something comes up for me of something happens.

It's run for these boards but I am running the chat part in discord.

So its a discord event that flies the smashboards flag but draws all attention to the discord and not actually giving activity to this thread past telling people to go to the discord and thus making this place more ignored.

Gotta admit its pretty silly to say this would bring activity here.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So its a discord event that flies the smashboards flag but draws all attention to the discord and not actually giving activity to this thread past telling people to go to the discord and thus making this place more ignored.

Gotta admit its pretty silly to say this would bring activity here.

More so for the day and less so for that but I guess that is a way to look at it.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

It will be a fun time, so stop on by for the tourney!

Discord is a lot more organized than Skype. You can have channels like IRC, but with a modern feel.

We also want the users to feel welcomed there. (Non-friendly) Bullying is not tolerated in our Discord.

 

[JohnnstR]

so I've been using this setup I found a lot lately and it's probably already a thing, but in case its not or for people who don't know about it I made a crappy video in 10 mins about how it works.

https://youtu.be/QipJoXoxpdQ

if people actually care I can make a video with game quality and better usage, or if I discovered it or whatever.
if i didn't discover it i don't really care.

 

[DomBadZZZ]

nerfs, salt, uggghhhhhhhh, zss/shiek untouched, more salt

 

[Nysyr]

What do you expect when they balance around only FFA.

Edit: I wouldn't even care if they entirely removed the hitbox if we got frame data that wasn't complete garbage, or range to match our frame data so we might actually have a passable neutral against the top tiers. Too bad they only listen to whining instead of actually balancing.

 

[Croi]

What do you expect when they balance around only FFA.

Edit: I wouldn't even care if they entirely removed the hitbox if we got frame data that wasn't complete garbage, or range to match our frame data so we might actually have a passable neutral against the top tiers. Too bad they only listen to whining instead of actually balancing.

1) People have been whining about Sheik and ZSS almost since release and they went untouched, 2) we have been whining about Lucario's poor neutral almost since release and this is, like, the sixth change he's gotten since.

 

[Nysyr]

1) People have been whining about Sheik and ZSS almost since release and they went untouched, 2) we have been whining about Lucario's poor neutral almost since release and this is, like, the sixth change he's gotten since.

I should clarify:
Whining in Japan. LolNA.

Lucario players are few and far between anyways, and I must reinforce they only balance around FFA.

 

[Pitbuller26]

Today marks the day where Lucario became the worst character in Smash 4. Aura Sphere was literally his only saving grace.

Horrid frame data, terrible range on the ground and air, extremely difficult recovery, nothing safe on shield.

 

[Joaco]

Can anybody explain what happened to Aura Sphere?

 

[Pitbuller26]

The knockback growth was reduced by 7, which is a huge amount. This basically means, you don't have to worry about dying when getting shot by Aura Sphere anymore.

The hitbox on the charge got shifted so the landing the ASC on people is much more difficult. AND the hitlag on the charge was decreased, meaning it should be easier to escape.

Basically, Lucario's only decent option in the game got nerfed hard. So now he has no options good options.

I wonder how Kami feels about this.

 

[Browny]

poor doggy

still cute tho

 

[yessi]

Welp, time to enter the five stages of grief

RIP

 

[W.A.C.]

So Lucario basically got trashed this patch, yet Shiek and ZSS are left alone? Dafuq...

Edit-

Was Lucario B reversal jump cancelled up smash affected?

 

[Space thing]

The knockback growth was reduced by 7, which is a huge amount. This basically means, you don't have to worry about dying when getting shot by Aura Sphere anymore.

The hitbox on the charge got shifted so the landing the ASC on people is much more difficult. AND the hitlag on the charge was decreased, meaning it should be easier to escape.

Basically, Lucario's only decent option in the game got nerfed hard. So now he has no options good options.

I wonder how Kami feels about this.

I could be wrong about all of this but, the knockback growth change appears to apply ONLY to the charge part of the move. The previous 90 KBG value listed is the charges value whereas the the actually projectile has a different KBG value. I also compared post-patch Wii U and pre-patch 3DS (not perfect I know) and found no clear difference that would be present if it did apply to the projectile part (I didn't use blast zones as a measure, I looked at how far they were sent on stage). I also see neither notes nor anything from testing that shows ASC's hitbox was changed at all.

So now the question is, does ASC to whatever still work? It seems to, but it might be less reliable or start to work later. Hard to tell. The angle of knockback was changed to something more vertical it looks like, which may make certain things a bit easier to pull off. Also, the reduced KBG may actually keep them in the charge slightly longer, IDK. Not sure how the hitlag changes affects things, but we'll see I guess.

Oh, and we still shatter shields all the same lol.

 

[Kyzael]

I do apologize if I actually offend anyone by asking, but when I was talking to my friend yesterday about this. I looked at it and I shrugged it off as it didn't look that bad.

I'd like someone to properly explain (Just incase I missed something or just read something wrong above) what I'm to be expecting with this patch? Just not Aura Sphere kills?

 

[JohnnstR]

I could be wrong about all of this but, the knockback growth change appears to apply ONLY to the charge part of the move. The previous 90 KBG value listed is the charges value whereas the the actually projectile has a different KBG value. I also compared post-patch Wii U and pre-patch 3DS (not perfect I know) and found no clear difference that would be present if it did apply to the projectile part (I didn't use blast zones as a measure, I looked at how far they were sent on stage). I also see neither notes nor anything from testing that shows ASC's hitbox was changed at all.

So now the question is, does ASC to whatever still work? It seems to, but it might be less reliable or start to work later. Hard to tell. The angle of knockback was changed to something more vertical it looks like, which may make certain things a bit easier to pull off. Also, the reduced KBG may actually keep them in the charge slightly longer, IDK. Not sure how the hitlag changes affects things, but we'll see I guess.

Oh, and we still shatter shields all the same lol.

I'm pretty sure all of the patch notes applied to ASC, if the hitlag and angles are. They are under the same category, and AS doesnt seem to knock less far tbh.

This is a huge nerf due to enemies being able to DI out faster and more effectively, getting out of asc setups. They seem to pop right out after a couple hits unlike before. It has something to do with the hitlag and Eevee can explain that but I'm not super sure. Also the angle changed so they pop upwards more which adds to this.

Also we don't have a lock if they just press shield and roll/spotdodge, sorry.

 

[Space thing]

I'm pretty sure all of the patch notes applied to ASC, if the hitlag and angles are. They are under the same category, and AS doesnt seem to knock less far tbh.

This is a huge nerf due to enemies being able to DI out faster and more effectively, getting out of asc setups. They seem to pop right out after a couple hits unlike before. It has something to do with the hitlag and Eevee can explain that but I'm not super sure. Also the angle changed so they pop upwards more which adds to this.

Also we don't have a lock if they just press shield and roll/spotdodge, sorry.

Really haven't noticed a major difference in terms of them popping out quicker, but IDK yet. People could already get out really quickly if they DI'd correctly.

And yea, you're right about the shield thing. Oh well. If they try to get out, they get hit by the charge hitbox anyway, which can still mean death a good amount of the time. I'm fairly OK with this being gone at least.

 

[Croi]

Uncool, Sakurai. Way uncool.

 

[AureusVulpes]

Uncool, Sakurai. Way uncool.

This is often the problem I have in any competitive PvP scene. Overstrong characters/classes going untouched while the less powerful ones getting garbage tweaks here and there that do nothing in the long term. I've resigned myself to the fact that if I don't like the top-tier stuff (personality/aesthetics/gameplay) from the get-go, that i can never seriously PvP in the game.

I haven't done any serious PvP in over 6 years. Casual all the way. Why? Because it feels nigh pointless to try to be competitive when there's such a glaring skew toward a few playables. ANd it happens in SO. MANY. GAMES.

 

[Croi]

Maining Lucario was a halfway decent option in 1.0.0. No shieldbreak shenanigans, but fsmash and dsmash had less cooldown and ES had half the landing lag it does now.

But hell, what's the point now? They've taken everything from him. I only picked him up because he had an amazing recovery, but is it worth it to stay in the face of everything these past patches have done, or haven't done, to him?

 

[AureusVulpes]

I should clarify:
Lucario players are few and far between anyways, and I must reinforce they only balance around FFA.

Maining Lucario was a halfway decent option in 1.0.0. No shieldbreak shenanigans, but fsmash and dsmash had less cooldown and ES had half the landing lag it does now.

But hell, what's the point now? They've taken everything from him. I only picked him up because he had an amazing recovery, but is it worth it to stay in the face of everything these past patches have done, or haven't done, to him?

The problem here is that they do seem to balance only around FFA, meanwhile, Sakurai called it in the last announcement video they had "a competitive fighter" (when he was gloating about all the junk in the game). Sad news Sakurai: game is crap if it isn't BALANCED in the manner for which you advertise it. In this case, a competitive fighter game.

Street Fighter 4 was more balanced than this. Yeah, shots fired.

None of this really matters though because Bayonetta is probably gonna be SSSSSSSSS tier.

 

[Linkshot]

Hey, long time no see, seems to be as salty and fuzzy as always, though.

Anyway, if hitlag was DECREASED, that means it racks up damage faster (less lag frames for the opponent to react and mash out), but if knockback was increased, they can pop out without trying.

As always, keep most of the same gameplan as Brawl. dTilt is a great poke and replaces the utterly destroyed jab (especially since you can slightly alter spacing by crawling), cross up your fAirs and nAirs, try to shieldpoke with the second hit of dAir, catch landings with Aura Sphere, and spam the hell out of Force Palm oh my god that thing is like a taste of an instant Thoron.

DISCLAIMER: I don't play Lucario as much as I should, but I know in my heart of hearts that he'll never be the worst as long as Zelda exists.

 

[Pitbuller26]

Hey, long time no see, seems to be as salty and fuzzy as always, though.

Anyway, if hitlag was DECREASED, that means it racks up damage faster (less lag frames for the opponent to react and mash out), but if knockback was increased, they can pop out without trying.

As always, keep most of the same gameplan as Brawl. dTilt is a great poke and replaces the utterly destroyed jab (especially since you can slightly alter spacing by crawling), cross up your fAirs and nAirs, try to shieldpoke with the second hit of dAir, catch landings with Aura Sphere, and spam the hell out of Force Palm oh my god that thing is like a taste of an instant Thoron.

DISCLAIMER: I don't play Lucario as much as I should, but I know in my heart of hearts that he'll never be the worst as long as Zelda exists.

Down tilt is Lucario's only good move in neutral.

You will never ever cross up with fair and nair. Fair doesn't even hit Rosalina from a short hop when she's standing. That's how crappy the range is on it. Force palm takes forever and a day to come out with the cool down of forever and a day.

Lucario doesn't have anything anymore. This nerf definitely made Lucario see the abyss known as bottom tier.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Just to be clear, the aura sphere nerf is for charging Aura sphere. Not Aura Sphere itself when you shoot it.

This means it's easier to get out of it if you go for the charge into usmash stuff and try to lock people in shield, which didn't actually work that well but yeah.

Also our fall speed was increased slightly...idk how to feel about that change.

The problem here is that they do seem to balance only around FFA, meanwhile, Sakurai called it in the last announcement video they had "a competitive fighter" (when he was gloating about all the junk in the game). Sad news Sakurai: game is crap if it isn't BALANCED in the manner for which you advertise it. In this case, a competitive fighter game.

Street Fighter 4 was more balanced than this. Yeah, shots fired.

None of this really matters though because Bayonetta is probably gonna be SSSSSSSSS tier.

They look at all online data, not just FFAs. Game and Watch being killed from top tier in doubles is a big example of this.

 

[AureusVulpes]

Just to be clear, the aura sphere nerf is for charging Aura sphere. Not Aura Sphere itself when you shoot it.

This means it's easier to get out of it if you go for the charge into usmash stuff and try to lock people in shield, which didn't actually work that well but yeah.

Also our fall speed was increased slightly...idk how to feel about that change.

They look at all online data, not just FFAs. Game and Watch being killed from top tier in doubles is a big example of this.

i was just about to post about the fall speed change myself.

Perhaps this band of patches is meant to help our ASC game. It all adds up.

-Falling faster helps us get on target quicker with less time for opponent to react.
-3 degree vertical increase puts target higher faster. making for easier usmash connect
-hitlag reduction pushes them into position faster and deals more damage over time as it hits more with less push per hit?

im not a pro at this but all of these changes put together actually sound like they intend to help the ASC trap game.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The changes to shields made it better, but in a way if it locks people up, which it didn't if you knew how to get out of it.

With higher Aura and Lucario doing more damage he was already becoming safer on block just from those changes. It means more if you did more damage as is. Lucario's range got taken away more so from Brawl to Sm4sh, which is what made his footies worse. That and Low aura made his safety still questionable.

I should do a check on his safety at all points with aura for frame data, since that would actually be helpful for figuring out when our footies are safe or not.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

• "Horizontal air speed, fall speed, fastfall sweed, and walk speed increased" (Do sweed every day)

Jokes aside I think this is kinda huge for landing back airs a little easier. I would appreciate not having to relearn Lucario every other patch though lol.

 

[Masonomace]

This patch for Lucario gave me a mixed feeling, but ASC > oos JCUsmash nerf really hurts. . Whenever my friends & I were playing the new patch with Cloud & Midgar, I was Lucario performing a B-Reversed ASC toward my friend's Ryu & tried to oos JCUsmash numerous times but just could not land it for he was able to get a SRK before my Usmash first hit.

So I'm bummed out on a BnB reliable combo / kill setup. Although, I don't think the option is truly gone. Characters with high fall speeds like Mega Man still get combo'd assuming you don't have a lot of Rage. . .& basically being frame perfect with the JCU makes landing it much harder. However, I feel that this just allows me to explore & use "new" options I don't usually do, such as oos SH footstool Dair. If a jumpsquat into Usmash is too slow, then a Utilt or short hopped aerial may still suffice. Time will tell I guess.

In other news, Lucario getting a slight boost to his air speed fall speeds & walk speed gives me a good vibe, since this all applies to a different kind of way I want to play Lucario. Plus Omega Kalos has walls now. Cloud's walljump is decent, so Lucario still holds the record for best walljump.