phi1ny3
Not the Mama
He hasn't posted yet, he said HW/school is owning him atm.
He says he has at least half of it done though.
He says he has at least half of it done though.
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Lucario and Friends discuss a tactical approach to: Meta Knight (thank you Ksizzle!)
- Thread starter phi1ny3
- Start date
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
So bad news guys, I haven't heard from Ksizzle in awhile, and by the sounds of it, he forgot to give me the answers before he left. But in regards to that, I'll try to call in a special guest on the MU from the opposite side of the field, which would be a MK that has played many lucarios and has plenty of experience with it and other aspects of gameplay. I was thinking M2K for our next and possibly final panel member before we move onto another panel theme, whether it be another character MU, tactics, etc.
Whaddaya say to that, and if it's a go, we should probably generate questions for M2K.
Whaddaya say to that, and if it's a go, we should probably generate questions for M2K.
#HBC | Red Ryu
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M2K does seem like the person who would know something about MK vs Lucario.
Although from what I understand he thinks the MU is even.
Although from what I understand he thinks the MU is even.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
It happens when someone beats him, he goes on those sorts of things.
Still, if the best Brawl player thinks that way, he's gotta have some reason to think so that's at least worthwhile to listen to.
Still, if the best Brawl player thinks that way, he's gotta have some reason to think so that's at least worthwhile to listen to.
iRJi
Smash Champion
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Thats an old assumption. You might wanna ask him again.
You can ask him phil, but he might be a bit on the angry side atm. Still, hit him up and find out if he is willing to do it.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Y he angry?
Edit: Is it the whole Ally thing?
Edit: Is it the whole Ally thing?
iRJi
Smash Champion
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http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=253426
If you wanna read the whole thing, it will tell you exactly why he is mad. he has a reason to be to a degree, but I personally think he is over reacting.
If you wanna read the whole thing, it will tell you exactly why he is mad. he has a reason to be to a degree, but I personally think he is over reacting.
#HBC | Red Ryu
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http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8709892&postcount=223
:/
I agree with RJ about the over reacting after reading that.
:/
I agree with RJ about the over reacting after reading that.
Aurasmash14
Smash Lord
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what the hell is M2K's problem?
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I think every one at some point gets where they need to find their happy place.
e_O
e_O
iRJi
Smash Champion
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Ya... lol. Personal opinion right now is to ask for honor members first, then go back to M2k when he cools off a bit.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
So do people have questions from the MK PoV? I got confirmation from M2K (hopefully he's cooled down by now), so fire away!
#HBC | Red Ryu
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Anything that was asked before pretty much.
Maybe a question or two about how to deal with MK planking.
Maybe a question or two about how to deal with MK planking.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Think of questions from MK's perspective. What do they love lucarios to do, like what bad habits? Maybe what is their hardest thing to punish when the lucario uses it correctly? Questions that make the MK user (in this case, M2K) think how he tries to beat Lucario more easily, more than how we can win against MK.
HyperEnergy
Smash Journeyman
Does MK prefer to keep the game in the air or on the ground?
...is a question I'd like to see answered.
...is a question I'd like to see answered.
F1ZZ
Smash Lord
In both areas he is strong but I would have to say air. Most if not all of his moves have almost no start up lag such as Nair, Fair, Bair and Uair. All his air moves are BEAST.
EDIT: Also his recovery is a great tool.
iRJi
Smash Champion
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Not ment to be answered lol xD. Its a question for M2k, to see how he feels and why.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Oh yeah, I'm sorry, the idea spawned from the original discussion found here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=248432
The original purpose of these threads is to get the info "straight from the horse's mouth", or those who play with these aspects at the highest level of play. I basically take questions and give them to the pros, and they answer. This is different from a MU thread, because it's more tactical, so we can discuss mindgames that most opponents could be subjected to, specific preferences, etc.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=248432
The original purpose of these threads is to get the info "straight from the horse's mouth", or those who play with these aspects at the highest level of play. I basically take questions and give them to the pros, and they answer. This is different from a MU thread, because it's more tactical, so we can discuss mindgames that most opponents could be subjected to, specific preferences, etc.
F1ZZ
Smash Lord
Whoops. Whatever it is still useful input.
Blood_Hawk
Smash Lord
Ah, Mk vs Lucario
His hardest match up IMO. I like a lot of what Azen said, mix in aura sphere spam with random aerials, f-tilts, and sometimes dash grabs. Just be sure to mix it up. Mk also likes to do jumping aerials, so u-tilt is so handy for that when in close. Just watch for spot dodge D-smash. Jabs tend to work too if you are in close. Always with jabs I prefer the triple A to any other fancy BS, it's just generally better to get the extra damage and knock MK away than take a chance of keeping him in close.
Shuttle Loop out of shield is something MK likes to use when you jump into him, so careful of that. If you shield his shuttle loop successfully when he uses it grounded, SH into Mk and use an aerial, it will hit him almost guaranteed. When you are below MK, know that your dair can beat out shuttle loop with good timing, but I prefer to just dair stall and land. Messing with MK in the air is just stupid.
Nado fears F-smash and semi charged Aura Sphere depending on percent. So use those if you see a Nado, or think he's going to use one. It's easily DIed out of since you are so floaty anyway, so if you get caught in a Nado, try to DI out and follow up to punish as best you can, just be weary as soon as MK lands he can spot dodge, move, or D-smash, so grabbing should be your last Nado punish choice. Use a lingering move like dair or F-tilt and or bait the spot dodge.
Lucario's main problem when versing MK is his recovery. On stage Lucario has a lot of things he can do to put MK in tight spots, but offstage MK reigns supreme. The only advice I can give, and it's pretty redundant advice is to just say, "Don't get off stage against MK."
If you plan on recovering with Wall cling, know how to wall jump tech, cause a good MK won't let you use it. I also like to do what Lee does and reverse aura sphere charge cancel and try to bair him, it's your best bet since everything else Lucario can do while recovering MK can answer. He can answer that too but it's one MK has to actually be careful about rather than throw out a move and beat it out. Don't just air dodge like a ninny and get knocked back out. Try to do something. ^^;
Recover smart and expect to get gimped. MK is the best edge guarder in the game, so you aren't going to recover every time. Just the facts.
His hardest match up IMO. I like a lot of what Azen said, mix in aura sphere spam with random aerials, f-tilts, and sometimes dash grabs. Just be sure to mix it up. Mk also likes to do jumping aerials, so u-tilt is so handy for that when in close. Just watch for spot dodge D-smash. Jabs tend to work too if you are in close. Always with jabs I prefer the triple A to any other fancy BS, it's just generally better to get the extra damage and knock MK away than take a chance of keeping him in close.
Shuttle Loop out of shield is something MK likes to use when you jump into him, so careful of that. If you shield his shuttle loop successfully when he uses it grounded, SH into Mk and use an aerial, it will hit him almost guaranteed. When you are below MK, know that your dair can beat out shuttle loop with good timing, but I prefer to just dair stall and land. Messing with MK in the air is just stupid.
Nado fears F-smash and semi charged Aura Sphere depending on percent. So use those if you see a Nado, or think he's going to use one. It's easily DIed out of since you are so floaty anyway, so if you get caught in a Nado, try to DI out and follow up to punish as best you can, just be weary as soon as MK lands he can spot dodge, move, or D-smash, so grabbing should be your last Nado punish choice. Use a lingering move like dair or F-tilt and or bait the spot dodge.
Lucario's main problem when versing MK is his recovery. On stage Lucario has a lot of things he can do to put MK in tight spots, but offstage MK reigns supreme. The only advice I can give, and it's pretty redundant advice is to just say, "Don't get off stage against MK."
If you plan on recovering with Wall cling, know how to wall jump tech, cause a good MK won't let you use it. I also like to do what Lee does and reverse aura sphere charge cancel and try to bair him, it's your best bet since everything else Lucario can do while recovering MK can answer. He can answer that too but it's one MK has to actually be careful about rather than throw out a move and beat it out. Don't just air dodge like a ninny and get knocked back out. Try to do something. ^^;
Recover smart and expect to get gimped. MK is the best edge guarder in the game, so you aren't going to recover every time. Just the facts.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Still trying to get Ksizzle's input, but while we are at it, we could have an open discussion on how to play this MU tactically.
Technically, MK who knows the MU from the start of the game will do really well vs. Lucario. Lots of times, you'll be against one who isn't used to both the low cooldown and lingering hitboxes, particularly in his aerials, this means that if he isn't shielding and you've thrown an aerial out first, lots of times there's issues with MK trying to get in, especially if fair is retreated while AS camping. In short, MK's aerial game if he's trying to start can be hampered by this walling, somewhat. I wouldn't recommend doing this against dair camping or things like that though, and if he's throwing out aerials in a different, unconventional spacing, then Lucario will have some trouble.
In other words, don't forget your aerials, you will want to be grounded, but even MK under the right circumstances can get hit by Lucario's aerials.
Technically, MK who knows the MU from the start of the game will do really well vs. Lucario. Lots of times, you'll be against one who isn't used to both the low cooldown and lingering hitboxes, particularly in his aerials, this means that if he isn't shielding and you've thrown an aerial out first, lots of times there's issues with MK trying to get in, especially if fair is retreated while AS camping. In short, MK's aerial game if he's trying to start can be hampered by this walling, somewhat. I wouldn't recommend doing this against dair camping or things like that though, and if he's throwing out aerials in a different, unconventional spacing, then Lucario will have some trouble.
In other words, don't forget your aerials, you will want to be grounded, but even MK under the right circumstances can get hit by Lucario's aerials.
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
Disregard
wrong thread
wrong thread
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Bump because I'm interviewing ksizzle as we speak.
ksizl4life
Smash Hero
success!!!
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
It's posted now.
SCIENCE!
SCIENCE!
Trela
Smash Lord
Ksizzle, THANK YOU for this Interview.
It reminded me to use my brain!
It reminded me to use my brain!
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
#HBC | Red Ryu
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Ksizzle gave a lot more helpful advice on the MU.
Next tournament I go to I'll be sure to use better tactics.
Next tournament I go to I'll be sure to use better tactics.
ksizl4life
Smash Hero
10yourwelcomes
#HBC | Red Ryu
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D. Disciple
Smash Master
Seems like he nailed that discussion pretty **** well.
I give him two thumbs up
d (^_^) b
I give him two thumbs up
d (^_^) b
tedward2000
Smash Champion
All around good stuff.
Azen, you need to step it up <3
-t2
Azen, you need to step it up <3
-t2
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
So should we finish with M2K to get a good idea of what to do in the MU on both ends?
Then I'll start working on the other interview thread <_<;
Then I'll start working on the other interview thread <_<;
ksizl4life
Smash Hero
lol that isnt a very good idea. some people think that m2k knows the matchup but he doesnt. he beats lucarios cuz he outsmarts them/reads them. hes also impatient and wouldnt sit there typing answers about a matchup for an interview LOL
#HBC | Red Ryu
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I have to agree with Ksizzle.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
K, so now one last person I'd like to interview, this time it's from someone who's on the other end of the MU, I'd like to gather questions for Mew2King
