ignore the fire
Smash Journeyman
problem solved.
-
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lock please
- Thread starter ignore the fire
- Start date
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
heh. he sounds like a whiny ***** if you ask me.
HolyChef
Smash Ace
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197608
found the thread to the tourney. help this man out.
edit. im too lazy to write huge essays on why they shouldnt be banned lol
found the thread to the tourney. help this man out.
edit. im too lazy to write huge essays on why they shouldnt be banned lol
choknater
Smash Obsessed
let's all spam that thread please
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
just did.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
nah, i'm too lazy....
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=168617&highlight=Infinites
Wow... You still attend his tournaments though.
SothE700k
Smash Lord
Unfortunately...
Hey I got an idea everyone! Lets go to the tournament, all pick IC, and use the infinite grab JUST TO PISS THEM OFF =)
I got him to change it to 5 grabs a time.
And I mainly attend for teams since my teammate(Sethlon) lives in houston. And I don't use IC's there much.
I hold my own tournaments with good rules as well >_>.
GenesisJLS
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2004
- Messages
- 365
Blame OBAMA! Freaking banning everything, ****ing Marxist.
ignore the fire
Smash Journeyman
thanks for the support everyone.
hopefully the TO will agree.
=/
hopefully the TO will agree.
=/
KRDsonic
Smash Master
However, I'm the only IC "Main" that goes to his tournys. I feel so gimped D: lol, not really.
Lol, second time a thread like this comes up. I don´t understand how people like to play the game less deep, or closer to "perfect", sure ICs infinites is great, but what about DK on stages like corneria/Onett, grab them and take the opponents to a wall and start dtilting.
It´s alot easier than IC's CG even though that proves how fast you can get out of grabs if the one that gets grab does what he/she should do in thet position.
EDIT: So now SoPo has like no chance against characters he has an even matchup or advantage against (shiek..) since he cannot be able to CG 0-50+, otherwise I would suggest camping close to an wall (when it´s present) to backthrow releasegrab-releasegrab... since it´s not technicly a CG just standing and waiting to grab again...
It´s alot easier than IC's CG even though that proves how fast you can get out of grabs if the one that gets grab does what he/she should do in thet position.
EDIT: So now SoPo has like no chance against characters he has an even matchup or advantage against (shiek..) since he cannot be able to CG 0-50+, otherwise I would suggest camping close to an wall (when it´s present) to backthrow releasegrab-releasegrab... since it´s not technicly a CG just standing and waiting to grab again...
ignore the fire
Smash Journeyman
i can do a walking infinite release grab chain, but that just takes longer. i normally only footstool the heavier characters too, but i guess i'll have to learn how to do it to everyone.
or i could just not attend a tournament where scrubs make the rules.
or i could just not attend a tournament where scrubs make the rules.
Miller
Smash Lord
Call him a scrub and proceed to poop on his face.
But seriously, just tell him to come here and im sure I'll completely destroy any reasoning he has to ban it.
HolyChef
Smash Ace
this tourney is whack. u should either mix up ur cg's alot or pick metaknight and press the b button. no seriously press the b button and nothing else. dont even kill just press the b button.
P a i n
Smash Cadet
I can't chain grab unless i'm in training mode. I'm not consistent enough to pull them off in a competitive scene.
What's wrong with good ol' fashion desynch and destroy?
Sucks that they're banned, but no CG doesn't mean no IC play.
What's wrong with good ol' fashion desynch and destroy?
Sucks that they're banned, but no CG doesn't mean no IC play.
LG7
Smash Apprentice
Tapion013
Smash Lord
I'm here to be convinced that the IC's infinite grab should be allowed. Please, convince me why the only 0-death on all characters on all stages should not be at least nerfed a little.
It's kind of hard to convince someone whose opinion isn't open to change
.Just sayin'. There is a ton of imperical proof(I.e. tournament results) that shows IC's doing anything but dominating. If they possesed ANY tactic that would help them easily, then why don't ANY tournament results refelct this?
That's just a taste, but there is a ton more. It's just pretty much impossibile to argue around evidence.
Dajayman
Banned via Administration
Wow, so this is the source of all the *****ing...
Leave the TO alone.
Leave the TO alone.
Vlade
Social Outcast
On all stages? I think not...
Tapion013
Smash Lord
Name a TOURNAMENT stage that it can't be done on? The only one I can think of is rainbow cruise, and that's only because you have to stop before the stage moves too fast and kills you on the ascending portion.
Hylian, I'm open to change as long as I get a decent argument. But "It's hard to pull off" is not an argument, and neither is comparing it to other non-guaranteed KO chain grabs.
Edit: Also I'm pretty sure it's because characters like metaknight and snake completely dominate the tournament scene which is why you don't see a lot of ice climbers winning. I'm not saying that the ice climbers shouldn't be able to do some nasty chain grabbing stuff, but please convince me that being rewarded by taking a stock off your opponent by grabbing them isn't a little harsh in a game such as brawl?
Hylian, I'm open to change as long as I get a decent argument. But "It's hard to pull off" is not an argument, and neither is comparing it to other non-guaranteed KO chain grabs.
Edit: Also I'm pretty sure it's because characters like metaknight and snake completely dominate the tournament scene which is why you don't see a lot of ice climbers winning. I'm not saying that the ice climbers shouldn't be able to do some nasty chain grabbing stuff, but please convince me that being rewarded by taking a stock off your opponent by grabbing them isn't a little harsh in a game such as brawl?
Another stage it doesn't work on is frigate orpheon, I don´t know if IC's can do the same thing as Dedede with hes dthrow on that stage(killing of the top when stage rotates with a dthrow) but probably not. The pokemon stadium stages screws up the CT too in some wierd way.
Chars like Jigglypuff cannot even get dthrow CG'd, maybe one dthrow to fairspike but the second will be techable so you´ll have to be extreemly fast doing one of those "fast CG methods" for the opponent to not mash out. Mashing out from 16% goes extreemly fast, so there´s no room to wait for Nana placing herself and you to get the setup for alternate grabs.
It´s easy to get out at low% if the dthrow to fairspike isn´t guarantied to work 2 times on a char, just mash everything you´ve got and thing the game as mario party 2 lol.
Is there any limit´s for snake to not do whatever he wants?, has there been any limit to chars like fox in ssbm to not do whatever they would want? No, and why isnt waveshine banned in SSBM?
Chars like Jigglypuff cannot even get dthrow CG'd, maybe one dthrow to fairspike but the second will be techable so you´ll have to be extreemly fast doing one of those "fast CG methods" for the opponent to not mash out. Mashing out from 16% goes extreemly fast, so there´s no room to wait for Nana placing herself and you to get the setup for alternate grabs.
It´s easy to get out at low% if the dthrow to fairspike isn´t guarantied to work 2 times on a char, just mash everything you´ve got and thing the game as mario party 2 lol.
Is there any limit´s for snake to not do whatever he wants?, has there been any limit to chars like fox in ssbm to not do whatever they would want? No, and why isnt waveshine banned in SSBM?
Miller
Smash Lord
All you said there was "It's difficult to do". Who gives a **** if its hard to do. The argument is against people who **** with them AND can successfully pull it off.
Tapion, there are MANY ways around it with EVERY Character. Remember in melee, with falcon, you would always land behind your opponent so you couldn't get shield grabbed? That also applies to the rest of the cast. Yea, you can do that in brawl too. You can always pick Nana off if you wish.
People for some strange reason, separate them and go after Popo. Thats stupid unless its a guaranteed kill on Popo. You could also just stay back and you know, pick each of them off little by little when the opportunity arises. People are just dumb when they fight Iceys
Miller
Smash Lord
That isn't helpful to this argument >_>
Tapion013
Smash Lord
Smasher89: I think you're forgetting about a specific chain grab in which Ice climbers can chain grab while standing in place by forward throwing and back throwing to each other. down throw fair is not an infinite since it is techable. You can't tech that's your fault, fair game if you ask me. And again, difficulty is not a defense it is completely irrelevent since no matter how difficult something may be, if it can be done people will learn how to do it every time.
Millar: I'm aware there are things that can be done, however comparing it to melee is not exactly a good argument, seeing as melee's shield release system didn't allow you to grab directly behind you basically as fast as directly in front of you. Wavedashing out of shield isn't nearly as fast as shield release turn around dash grab. Granted almost all characters have moves that land with hardly any lag, but (and yes this can go either way) if the IC's see it coming, they can just desynch out of shield, run away a little, jump turn around blizzard grab, or some other things. Shield grabbing is not the ice climbers only way of getting this off. BIGGER However, this argument is not how to avoid the setups ice climbers have, or strategies of separating the two. This argument is (AND I HOPE THE REST OF YOU READ THIS PART I PUT IT IN CAPS NOT TO BE ANGRY JUST TO GET EVERYONES ATTENTION LOL SEE NOT ANGRY HAHAHA) solely on the fact of do you believe, that given the circumstances that an ice climbers player gets off a grab at really low percents (like, I'd say under 40 is considered low) with nana present to do the chain grab, is it fair to reward this with a stock?
swordgard: Yes, they have a very low grab range, but the ice climbers have a lot going for them even without the chain grab. They have crazy desynch crap that can hit them and lead in to a grab, they have smashes that do INCREDIBLE amounts of damage (a fresh downsmash without charging can do over 40 damage!!!) But again, refer to the end of my statement with Millar. This is not about it being difficult to pull off, it's not about anything except should ice climbers players really be rewarded with a full stock should they get one off?
Millar: I'm aware there are things that can be done, however comparing it to melee is not exactly a good argument, seeing as melee's shield release system didn't allow you to grab directly behind you basically as fast as directly in front of you. Wavedashing out of shield isn't nearly as fast as shield release turn around dash grab. Granted almost all characters have moves that land with hardly any lag, but (and yes this can go either way) if the IC's see it coming, they can just desynch out of shield, run away a little, jump turn around blizzard grab, or some other things. Shield grabbing is not the ice climbers only way of getting this off. BIGGER However, this argument is not how to avoid the setups ice climbers have, or strategies of separating the two. This argument is (AND I HOPE THE REST OF YOU READ THIS PART I PUT IT IN CAPS NOT TO BE ANGRY JUST TO GET EVERYONES ATTENTION LOL SEE NOT ANGRY HAHAHA) solely on the fact of do you believe, that given the circumstances that an ice climbers player gets off a grab at really low percents (like, I'd say under 40 is considered low) with nana present to do the chain grab, is it fair to reward this with a stock?
swordgard: Yes, they have a very low grab range, but the ice climbers have a lot going for them even without the chain grab. They have crazy desynch crap that can hit them and lead in to a grab, they have smashes that do INCREDIBLE amounts of damage (a fresh downsmash without charging can do over 40 damage!!!) But again, refer to the end of my statement with Millar. This is not about it being difficult to pull off, it's not about anything except should ice climbers players really be rewarded with a full stock should they get one off?
choknater
Smash Obsessed
if you're arguing against ic's i wonder how you feel about metaknight
Tapion013
Smash Lord
I hate the ****er, but I main snake so can handle them fine. Don't try and bring my skill level in to this because you'll fail at that relatively quickly...
brinboy789
Smash Champion
who the hell is trying to ban IC's? lol i dont think IC's are in any danger of being banned.
GenesisJLS
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2004
- Messages
- 365
The Ice Climbers will never be banned. Unless Melee1 beats DSF, AZEN, and M2K. =) So everyone please take a Valium or something.
Tapion013
Smash Lord
ummm... I'm pretty sure no one is trying to ban IC's... that's just incredibly ********
ROB is a solid IC counter, laser for separating them, spotdodge to buffered dsmash (common used tactic against IC's, glidetoss to dsmash (haven´t seen it but sounds like a safe approach) like CF's knee and land backward the opponent. Ah, read your post again and this is not what the discussion was about.
Taking what in many tournaments is 33,3% (I´m for 4 stock in brawl , since there´s ALOT of improvement in edgeguarding for everyone including the "top players") of the opponents chance to win for getting a grab and taking the stock.
Is fair due to it´s playing the game as it´s maked and is punishable/predictable, would it work like Metas infinite cape which would lead to an grab, it would obviously be broken (I believe that´s the case with Akuma in SF or something close to it).
I guess you know about certain matchups in brawl (Shiek vs Fox for example) where Fox has like 1% chance to win due to ftiltlocking 20-80%+ into an sweetspotted Usmash.
Sure avoiding it should be possible but the range of the Ftilt and setups leading to it makes it an completly "unfair" matchup but I´ve yet to see a Fox beating a shiek who perfected ftiltlock. The matchups Dedede vs DK/Mario/Luigi/Samus, or Marth vs Ness/Lucas isn't too balanced , but is it a reason to not play how the game is buildt?
I think the sole reason we play with best of 3 or 5 is to help the better player win so the results became as they should be, based on skills in prediction, mindgames and technical skills. Counterpicks also helps this so no good players loses to worse players unless they´ve got beaten bad or something in an earlier match (from my 40 tournaments+ experience).
Snake's fsmash kills at 40% and works on every character, what makes that different with IC's grabs?
Taking what in many tournaments is 33,3% (I´m for 4 stock in brawl , since there´s ALOT of improvement in edgeguarding for everyone including the "top players") of the opponents chance to win for getting a grab and taking the stock.
Is fair due to it´s playing the game as it´s maked and is punishable/predictable, would it work like Metas infinite cape which would lead to an grab, it would obviously be broken (I believe that´s the case with Akuma in SF or something close to it).
I guess you know about certain matchups in brawl (Shiek vs Fox for example) where Fox has like 1% chance to win due to ftiltlocking 20-80%+ into an sweetspotted Usmash.
Sure avoiding it should be possible but the range of the Ftilt and setups leading to it makes it an completly "unfair" matchup but I´ve yet to see a Fox beating a shiek who perfected ftiltlock. The matchups Dedede vs DK/Mario/Luigi/Samus, or Marth vs Ness/Lucas isn't too balanced , but is it a reason to not play how the game is buildt?
I think the sole reason we play with best of 3 or 5 is to help the better player win so the results became as they should be, based on skills in prediction, mindgames and technical skills. Counterpicks also helps this so no good players loses to worse players unless they´ve got beaten bad or something in an earlier match (from my 40 tournaments+ experience).
Snake's fsmash kills at 40% and works on every character, what makes that different with IC's grabs?