Little mac top tier?

[Commander Claus]

Might've been speculation from the videos we've seen so far.

 

[Empyrean]

So apparently his fair didn't even cause the enemy to flinch? Was this seen in footage?

Also, do we know what his uair is?

 

[Riposte__]

Little mac's recovery doesn't look bad, it's just that one up b that that isn't good for recovery. It looks like he can wall jump, and can do it from his -> B so he has some options.

 

[solitonmedic]

His Jolt Haymaker makes a great horizontal recovery.

 

[Sonovin]

His Jolt Haymaker makes a great horizontal recovery.

I think his Jolt haymaker only going to give a little horizontal distance. It seems to me that in the air, the Joly Haymaker doesn't even go that far. If you look at that reveal trailer of him running into the boxing ring, he runs and jumps and looks like he did the jolt haymaker. So I don't think it's that great in the air as trying to recover.

 

[Riposte__]

What he does in the trailer going into the ring looks to be his forward air as it has a downward spike and his side be is a straight punch animation.

 

[Sonovin]

What he does in the trailer going into the ring looks to be his forward air as it has a downward spike and his side be is a straight punch animation.

According to the direct, Side B is the jolt haymaker which is the downward blow like through megaman's charge shot. You can see the same blue streak in the trailer as the jolt haymaker move in the direct. Straight punch? Do you mean his netural B lunge?

 

[Spinosaurus]

The more I think about it the more I believe this character will be high mid tier with so many hard counters. :/

This character is too unbalanced. They could have just made him an anti-Jigglypuff if they wanted to keep the idea of him being strong in the ground but weak in the air (which is a great idea for a boxer), instead of going to the extreme side of things. Having him be potentially useless in the air will hurt him more than anything else.

It all depends on how bad his aerials really are and how good or bad his aerial mobility will be. If he can reliably move in the air then I can see him doing better.

 

[shinhed-echi]

The more I think about it the more I believe this character will be high mid tier with so many hard counters. :/

This character is too unbalanced. They could have just made him an anti-Jigglypuff if they wanted to keep the idea of him being strong in the ground but weak in the air (which is a great idea for a boxer), instead of going to the extreme side of things. Having him be potentially useless in the air will hurt him more than anything else.

It all depends on how bad his aerials really are and how good or bad his aerial mobility will be. If he can reliably move in the air then I can see him doing better.

Maybe he has good anti-air tactics?
But yeah, at least his recovery could've been better... Although we don't know yet. I mean, if it's at least better than Luigi's Melee recovery, I think it'll be decent enough.

Little Mac is all about the uppercuts. If he isn't built for anti-air I don't know who is!

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I wanna say he could be within the top ten at least. Perhaps A-/B tier

 

[Bowserlick]

Little Mac does have three ways to recover (Up B, Side B, and a charged B) and a down B to defend against edge guarders on his way back to the stage. So even if his aerials are not the best, he has ways to regain his advantage by rushing back to the ground.

 

[DemoPvP]

His recovery looks really ****ing bad. Like, worst then Links. Just a very short, straight up angle.

but his grounded game seems incredible. I'm guessing he's gonna be a character of extremes. Extremely strong ground game, but lack luster when it comes to aerial combat.

Regardless, Mac looks incredible, and i'm sure he's gonna be fun as hell to watch.

Indeed, but Link's recovery isn't horrible except maybe 64. He can bomb jump and even tether in brawl I believe.

 

[Empyrean]

Indeed, but Link's recovery isn't horrible except maybe 64. He can bomb jump and even tether in brawl I believe.

I doubt that he could bomb jump in Brawl, and either way his recovery was terrible in Brawl too.

 

[solitonmedic]

I forgot to mention!

His down-A attack makes a great combo starter! That hit makes it easy to connect a KO punch as seen in Smash Direct.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

The invitational illustrated that, blessedly, Mac has finishing power in spades, but also a really fast roll, good speed and ground mobility and enough combo options to rack up damage if used smartly (rapid jabs - some have reported that SDI has either been nerfed or completely removed - and his Up-B; additionally if his aerials are as weak as Sakurai says I'm sure at least one or two of them can be used for combos. If U-Air has a good hitbox on it and is weak, I predict Mac's juggle game to be excellent.)

In short? Mac's looking good.

 

[Ultinarok]

Mac's performance wasn't overwhelming. It seems like, in FFAs at least, that he's well-balanced. 1v1s remain to be seen though

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Little Mac never did get far in the Invitational, so the E3 demos and Smash-Fest will have to make up for it.

 

[Alakaslam]

Little Mac's KO Punch isn't as powerful as they wanted it to look in the trailer.

Bowser starts the clip at 37% but when the camera zooms back away from Mac we get a glimpse of Bowser's % when the punch connects:

So that clip wasn't actually one solid take. It was two clips spliced together.

Also holy ****:

Mac runs lower to the ground than Pikachu and seems to run AS FAST AS SONIC. Dead serious, play back that video and look how much ground he covers in that clip.
This man is using Falco's lasers as a back-scratcher and is knocking hos back before they can even pluck another turnip.
I'm in love here.

She'll simply fly, say "come on up here and let's see you fight"

...

Unless this = stalemate

:nervy:

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

The KO punch isn't a true KO, but it does 39%. It's absurdly powerful and nearly killed Rosalina at 0%.

 

[ToothiestAura]

I was KO'd twcie right when my meter filled up, so I can't contribute to that part of the conversation.

But his aerial game would be a thorn in the side of top tier match ups - his trailer did not exaggerate his aerial game's uselessness.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Indeed his recovery and aerials suck.

But boy is his ground game good. I had a feeling since the beginning that Little Mac could be a good anti-air character, and from what I've seen, he has quite a set of tools at his disposal including the powerful Usmash, the Utilt, the up-tilted Fsmash, and the UpB, which seems to go higher if it starts on the ground.

I just saw a good Little Mac player in the Treehouse event, and it gave me a bit more confidence in him. I couldn't be more excited. :D

 

[Hong]

So Little Mac builds KO metre by attacking stage hazards (ice stalagmites). Can anyone confirm/deny if this applies true for shield and Assist Trophy damage? For the time being, I will assume it builds based on damage dealt (since the chunks of ice have health), regardless if it's another character or not.

If this is still the case on release, flat stages won't be the only ideal turf for Little Mac.

 

[young grasshopper]

even if his recovery turns out to be good, he still won't survive on a stage with platforms out of U-smash/tilt range

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

So Little Mac builds KO metre by attacking stage hazards (ice stalagmites). Can anyone confirm/deny if this applies true for shield and Assist Trophy damage? For the time being, I will assume it builds based on damage dealt (since the chunks of ice have health), regardless if it's another character or not.

If this is still the case on release, flat stages won't be the only ideal turf for Little Mac.

I believe it builds with damage taken, too.

 

[Hong]

I believe it builds with damage taken, too.

Correct.

I wonder how this will function with any form of damage absorption or mitigation.

If I had to hazard a guess, the algorithm merely uses raw damage numbers dealt/taken.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Mac is the only character besides Rosalina whose design I get. Got solid normals, great ground speed to cross distance and continue combos, super armor to tank hits and build meter by both dealing and taking damage. Powerful finishers, subpar edge-guarding ability, likely a sub-par grab game. Hopefully he has a really strong throw or two.

 

[shinhed-echi]

The K.O. meter lasts for about 12 seconds before it resets if it isn't used.

 

[Ravio_Yo]

His throws, especially Dthrow, are extremely powerful imo. Surprised I don't see more people using them.

 

[JabbatheHutt]

quite the opposite apperently. more disadvantages then advantages

 

[FooltheFlames]

being bad in the air will really hurt him going against air campy characters who know his game
also not having a projectile hurts alot
he will have hard counters and easy matches too
lower mid tier maybe?

 

[MacnSlash]

I'm scared he's gonna be too powerful but the fact that he's weak in the air may make up for that I heard the super punch was hard to land which in my opinion makes it less cheap coarse it's probably not cheap considering you have to build it up

 

[Spinosaurus]

Yeah this character won't be top tier if he ends up getting a really uneven set of match ups, which I can see happening because he's a character of extremes.

 

[Ultinarok]

Yeah this character won't be top tier if he ends up getting a really uneven set of match ups, which I can see happening because he's a character of extremes.

This. Mac may end up being severely limited in many match-ups and dominant in others. Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up mid tier, having match-ups all over the place, with some top tier being wrecked by him and some bottom tier hard countering him.

 

[Addy Who Dat]

I think that Little Mac will be in the upper classes but he may not be in the SS, S , or even A for that matter. His lack of air game makes it challenging to pull of combos because he wont be able to utilize things like short hops (although it looks as if his recovery may be of some use). His lack of range also is a red flag meaning he will always have to try to approach and with characters like who can bait and punish approaches and attacks and have the range to fend off some approaches ( with her starbits, with her needles with his fire breath etc.) he may not have the easiest time approaching despite his good speed and powerful attacks (which make it his strong suit). I can see him being an easy character to play and very popular in the tournament scene, he will have many challenges in battle which influence his tier ranking in a negative way. keep in mind though that we have seen very little of these characters and no one really has a good grasp on how he works so we may have to wait and see

 

[Addy Who Dat]

I see Mac definitely being of the better characters. He has speed and multiple good kill moves. That seems to be the recipe for success. I don't think his air weakness will hinder him...much. Still, he's not likely to reach Melee fox/falco levels without domination of both the ground and air. I guess it all comes down to just HOW dominant is Mac on the ground. If he is truly insane then his flaws may not be enough to keep him away from the top. That's a big if. We need to see the full roster. If we get characters like Ridley/Balloon Fighter who could conceivably camp in the air the way presumably Mac will camp on the ground things could get very interesting. I didn't mention jigglypuff because although she hangs out in the air a ton she still has to come down to approach. I doubt Mac would have problems with that.

This is when characters with good air attakcs play an important role. A character like Jigglypuff , Fox, and even Kirby can pull of some good aireal attacks while Little mac wold have little he could do to counter it

 

[Ehn Jolly]

As much as I love Mac, I can't see him above B, maybe A at best. His ground work is just so good though, I'm really hoping he'll work to my playstyle to control the pace of the fight, keep things moving at his tempo, just like a real boxer needs to in order to win. As long as his aerials aren't god awful, I think he could play around a little in the air, but I don't plan on putting him off his feet that often if I can help it.

 

[B.A.M.]

Thoughts after my time at SDCC


At this point little mac is looking pretty mid tier maybe worse. His aerials are VERY horrible I dont know what people are saying. Not only do they have low knock back with little to no ways to follow up but have extremely small hitboxes in general. His ground game is also very overhyped. His super armor is great but a ton of things are shield grabbable. This is HUGE because little mac can die off stage at 30% due to NO horizontal momentum on his Up B and his aerial side b only having a decent hit box at the end of the animation. His aerial momentum is not good as well which allows an opponent to simply throw him off and wall him with aerials; if he gets hit hes probably dead, if he air dodges hes probably dead due to his horrific vertical recovery option.

He may seem great in FFA; super armor is a God send in FFA. However, 1on1 his super armor lessens in its relative effectiveness. His hitboxes are very small and not all that safe. Im actually quite sad for the character as this glaring weakness is the bane of all bad characters in Smash. His weakness is just too great and his ground game just isnt that good. ftilt is a solid option as well and dsmash, and I love his down titled fsmash. They just arent good enough to keep this character from dying at a low percent.

I hope Im wrong but I was talking to some top players and that seemed to be the general consensus.


One thing I will say, KO punch is a super quick move. It however doesnt have super armor and has a time limit for his usage that really complicates things if your opponent is paying attention. However I must confess dash up KO punch is so satisfying.

Heres to hoping they change things up for him. He's looking like hes going to have to some major problems.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Thoughts after my time at SDCC


At this point little mac is looking pretty mid tier maybe worse. His aerials are VERY horrible I dont know what people are saying. Not only do they have low knock back with little to no ways to follow up but have extremely small hitboxes in general. His ground game is also very overhyped. His super armor is great but a ton of things are shield grabbable. This is HUGE because little mac can die off stage at 30% due to NO horizontal momentum on his Up B and his aerial side b only having a decent hit box at the end of the animation. His aerial momentum is not good as well which allows an opponent to simply throw him off and wall him with aerials; if he gets hit hes probably dead, if he air dodges hes probably dead due to his horrific vertical recovery option.

He may seem great in FFA; super armor is a God send in FFA. However, 1on1 his super armor lessens in its relative effectiveness. His hitboxes are very small and not all that safe. Im actually quite sad for the character as this glaring weakness is the bane of all bad characters in Smash. His weakness is just too great and his ground game just isnt that good. ftilt is a solid option as well and dsmash, and I love his down titled fsmash. They just arent good enough to keep this character from dying at a low percent.

I hope Im wrong but I was talking to some top players and that seemed to be the general consensus.


One thing I will say, KO punch is a super quick move. It however doesnt have super armor and has a time limit for his usage that really complicates things if your opponent is paying attention. However I must confess dash up KO punch is so satisfying.

Heres to hoping they change things up for him. He's looking like hes going to have to some major problems.

Good analysis but that's pretty unfortunate to hear.

If he had good aerial momentum he could possibly short-hop over projectiles and Dair. Or short-hop, land, and get a quick jab or Ftilt from behind. He's definitely my most hyped newcomer and I'll try to main him. I can't wait till we can REALLY get time to experiment with him when the game releases. I guess people will have to be inventive. But if this analysis ends up being a harsh reality come game time then I don't wanna think about where he may end up in the tier list.

For now I say low A-Tier

 

[HeavyLobster]

Thoughts after my time at SDCC


At this point little mac is looking pretty mid tier maybe worse. His aerials are VERY horrible I dont know what people are saying. Not only do they have low knock back with little to no ways to follow up but have extremely small hitboxes in general. His ground game is also very overhyped. His super armor is great but a ton of things are shield grabbable. This is HUGE because little mac can die off stage at 30% due to NO horizontal momentum on his Up B and his aerial side b only having a decent hit box at the end of the animation. His aerial momentum is not good as well which allows an opponent to simply throw him off and wall him with aerials; if he gets hit hes probably dead, if he air dodges hes probably dead due to his horrific vertical recovery option.

He may seem great in FFA; super armor is a God send in FFA. However, 1on1 his super armor lessens in its relative effectiveness. His hitboxes are very small and not all that safe. Im actually quite sad for the character as this glaring weakness is the bane of all bad characters in Smash. His weakness is just too great and his ground game just isnt that good. ftilt is a solid option as well and dsmash, and I love his down titled fsmash. They just arent good enough to keep this character from dying at a low percent.

I hope Im wrong but I was talking to some top players and that seemed to be the general consensus.


One thing I will say, KO punch is a super quick move. It however doesnt have super armor and has a time limit for his usage that really complicates things if your opponent is paying attention. However I must confess dash up KO punch is so satisfying.

Heres to hoping they change things up for him. He's looking like hes going to have to some major problems.

Little Mac looks like he'll need to be rebalanced, hopefully prior to release but if not, via balance patch. His aerials will probably need to be buffed to make them mediocre instead of awful so he isn't totally helpless against air campers, and his lack of reach and good aerial approach options mean he'll need to have shield stun/damage/pushback on his moves boosted so that he can't be shield grabbed with impunity. Mac has a lot of positives but won't really be competitively useful if he doesn't have some sort of answer against air campers and shield grabbers.

 

[Jessi.mac.fire]

He can be cool and all and i really love him, but with those disadvantages he will never be top tier no matter how much advantages he has

Dont want to guess but maybe middle tier or upper because his really balanced