Little mac top tier?

[roymustang1990-]

Usually high tier characters have a good aerial game going for them.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Usually high tier characters have a good aerial game going for them.

Pretty much this. If Little Mac ever get grabbed, he's probably going to be in serious trouble against anyone who has an effective grab game. Likewise, Little Mac could be very vulnerable to juggling, all thanks to his terrible air game.

 

[Banjodorf]

Well, he's going to be top tier in For Glory mode, that's for sure.

As for the game as a whole...his aerial game sets him back I think, but I also don't think we should count him out yet, because we've never, ever seen a character like him in Smash.

 

[Oatmeal.]

I have a strong feeling that Little Mac will only be around mid-tier. Granted, he's a monster on the ground, but if you get that sucker in the air he'll be KO'd before you can say Mike Tyson.

 

[Empyrean]

While I am tempted to say he is high-tier material, we still need to see how the rest of the cast is handled. We still don't have a clear idea of how combos work or how much they can be extended, so in the event that the combo and grab games have been improved, Mac is gonna have some trouble finding his way back to the ground, specially considering that he won't have any combo-breaking moves like Peach or Luigi because of his terrible aerials. He also looks like he'll have problems approaching some of the characters, even with all the super armor going for him (and side-B too), and that he'll be forced to commit in most cases because of a lack of projectiles. Definitely an interesting concept for a fighter, I can't wait to see how this turns out.

 

[Banjodorf]

At the very least, since he's such a popular newcomer, his metagame should develop quickly, so we'll get a pretty good idea fairly early on.

 

[Neo Zero]

I share ZIGMA's sentiments of dislike of these kind of threads, but I do have to say, a character with a bad air game and no projectile to force an approach is not top tier material. Mac to me seems like the "X factor" character of Smash Bros. Hard to get in with and not great options, but once you've got that KO meter? Suddenly you become the scariest character in the game....that is if you can keep that meter before you get killed because you have a terrible recovery. Sure he might be fast, but soon as any platform or air combat begins, you're going to become Brawl Ganondorf it seems.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

I think a huge amount of this depends on how hitstun will work. If you can combo into the KO uppercut and his armored ground game is good enough to make up for his horrid air game then I'm calling mid-high at least. In regards to projectiles, all footage of his dash, Straight Lunge and Jolt Haymaker have implied Mac can work around them to some extent. We'll just have to see how combos work and just how crippling his air game is.

 

[Shadow the Past]

I don't like speculating much, but I believe Little Mac does have potential beyond just theorycrafting of "He looks good here, therefore he's probably good." Besides stuff like survivability and ability to combo and whatnot, I'm curious to see if he has any practical setups into KO Uppercut. If these setups exist, I imagine they would have to exist at a very low percent, like a throw or a tilt into the KO Uppercut. Hell, I'd be hyped to see if Jab lock -> KO Uppercut is possible (assuming Jab locks stay around, and assuming KO Uppercut doesn't have too much startup). If these setups are found, Little Mac would have a very easy time solidifying a lead against an opponent after taking a stock at a low percent. It'd be a similar gameplay style to utilizing Wario's waft.

 

[ErictheLone]

That dtilt to ko uppercut in the direct looked kinda legit.

 

[LOGIA666]

Mac is certainly good, and his quickness will attract Melee players to him, but his air game is poor. He won't be top tier/OP.

 

[straydoggywog]

I actually think his KO meter will carry over after he loses a stock.

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

Personally I think Little Mac won't have that much trouble with recovery and here is why. Flying Haymaker covers a really great distance. It reminds me how Luigi uses his Side Special to cover horizontal lengths. I don't believe there was an example of him using it in the air but from how it was on the ground it could be a very viable option. Not to mention it helps dodge projectiles too. The only draw back would be if it left you in a helpless animation. That there would be a crippling factor.

Bottom Line: He looks like he'll be mid-upper tier unless Flying Haymaker can be used properly for recovery. Then he'll be high tier for sure.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Considering that Little Mac's air game is terrible, even his specials may be affected negatively if he's not on the ground. That could result in the Flying Haymaker not being reliable for recovery at all if its aerial range is a lot worse than its ground range.

 

[Ividboy]

at least mac has a hell of a lot of powerful anti airs to counter people trying to approach aerially without leaving the ground.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

He's not going to be high tier, but around mid tier. Bad aerial game, but good ground game. His main drawback is that he has to constantly approach and be aggressive. Not necessarily a bad thing since the game style will be a bit more like Melee, but a good camper will give Little Mac a lot of trouble.

 

[Smash4Life]

Ok we know LMits very weak in the air but did you guys saw 0:41 of this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnOpppsijA0

He actually hits WFT and there was almost no hitstun, we are talking Samus' Brawl's first jab type of hitstun, almost none!

Yeah, that doesn't look too promising. I'm hoping that's as low as the hitstun will get. If there is another move with less hitstun then that, then Nintendo's really pushing it.

You know overall i just hope smash 4 is balanced enough that there is little need for a tier list.

People would still make one, though, but I hope you're right. That way, you can play as any character and,vas long as you play smart, you could win. There would still be ridiculous matchups, though, as these new characters are so diverse.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

People would still make one, though, but I hope you're right. That way, you can play as any character and,vas long as you play smart, you could win. There would still be ridiculous matchups, though, as these new characters are so diverse.

Yeah i don't mind bad match ups i just hated counter pick witch is why i like the whole balance the game for Final Destination route sakurai is doing.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Yeah i don't mind bad match ups i just hated counter pick witch is why i like the whole balance the game for Final Destination route sakurai is doing.

I wish he didn't do FD but at least Smashville or something...

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I wish he didn't do FD but at least Smashville or something...

my thought on it are like this. IF everyone was built for combat on FD than there shouldent be much advantage issues but the moment a platform comes in the balance goes out of wack and the aerial character gains the advantage.

 

[Sahfarry]

I'm not completely sure for this, but Mac looks good. like, really good. I'm almost certain he'll be a fan favorite in the competitive scene.

not with that air game

not to say that he wouldn't be a viable fighter. He'll probably be B-Tier at highest.

 

[Starcutter]

not with that air game

not to say that he wouldn't be a viable fighter. He'll probably be B-Tier at highest.

well, it seems he has a meteor.... so....

 

[Empyrean]

well, it seems he has a meteor.... so....

So did Ganon in Brawl, and a fairly good one.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Smash 4 seems alot more ground orientated mac could do well.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Smash 4 seems alot more ground orientated mac could do well.

Pretty sure it was made ground based for Little Mac. They wouldn't really want to make a new character and then absolutely trash him with mechanics.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Pretty sure it was made ground based for Little Mac. They wouldn't really want to make a new character and then absolutely trash him with mechanics.

Yeah
i agree plus alot of other characters seem to be showcased with ground combos alot 2
well other than sonic. Xd

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I want people here to do me a favor.

I want you to define the term 'air game'. And then I want you to refer to all the evidence we have that Mac has a 'terrible' one, without citing anything Sakurai said. Go.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I want people here to do me a favor.

I want you to define the term 'air game'. And then I want you to refer to all the evidence we have that Mac has a 'terrible' one, without citing anything Sakurai said. Go.

If you watch the direct
little macs attacks not only have little damage in the air
they have freaking brawl hit stun
thee virtually useless to hit people when ur in the air. other than with haymaker. or recovery

 

[Bearbuddy4]

I'm worried about his instant KO move, it might be too strong or happen too often.
I am happy that the 3ds version will come first so that the smash team can use it as a guinea pig for balance. They can definitely tweak the wii u version fighters based on observations made of the 3ds competitive scene

 

[GreenPhysco]

I think the KO Meter will cause him to get banned in certain tournaments.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

I view the KO meter with equanimity, but it depends purely on Little Mac himself. While having an excellent ground game, his air game is terrible, and without projectiles, he's forced to approach almost all the time. The way I see it, the KO meter might be the gimmick to bump him up a spot or so, but it won't be anything major. Of course if you get hit by it, it'll be something extraordinarily LOL-worthy as well as frustrating for the person who got hit by it, but if he whiffs it, it's gone for good that game. It should also be fairly easy to avoid as long as you play safe and/or stay in the air and spam with whatever projectiles you may have.

 

[Banjodorf]

I want people here to do me a favor.

I want you to define the term 'air game'. And then I want you to refer to all the evidence we have that Mac has a 'terrible' one, without citing anything Sakurai said. Go.

His F-air (in his part of the direct) when it actually hits the WFT (on...Windy Hill Zone? I think?) appears to do glancing damage, as it doesn't even make her flinch.

At least that's how it appears. However, he does serem to have a meteor, at least that's my hunch, so we honestly have to wait and see.

The KO meter is something you're going to have to be smart about, because it does seem to come out quick, but the punch seems like it'll leave him open if someone dodges it. People need to take a step back about it, only morons are going to ban Mac from what we know about him right now.

 

[Empyrean]

The Uppercut will just force you to respect Mac more when approaching or defending, the same way you always need to respect Falcon's Knee, which is important to note, doesn't need to be charged to be used and can kill after 50+ % (or setup for kills), even earlier with terrible DI. Jiggs' Rest is an extremely powerful move, to the point of being overcentralizing in her moveset, yet Jiggs isn't banned (yes, it is punishable if missed, but so will LM's move, albeit to a much lesser extent). G&W has the 9 hammer, and even though it relies on luck, it likely will happen as often as the Uppercut, with it's charging mechanic, yet he never has been banned.

 

[lami]

Empyrean and Banjodorf really nailed it there. Mac shouldn't be banned because of his KO meter just because of its power. Because he's one of the newcomers and is quite popular his meta will evolve quite fast, and people will know how to avoid getting wrecked by the KO punch without some cool mindgames or moves from the Mac player.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Considering his lightweight and awful recovery, I see him as medium tier, with the strong moves and KO punch barely upping him from low tier.

Watch as Villager becomes the new Meta Knight.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Do we even know his air and fall speed? He has poor aerials, but his aerial movement might not be necessarily bad.

Grabs are gonna be a huge trouble for Mac, and he'll be VERY prone to gimping. I imagine Diddy Kong and DeDeDe will give him a hell of a trouble.

I'm not convinced on poor air game just yet until we know all the details and not just his aerials. And having a bad air game doesn't necessarily mean he'll be auto-low tier either. Look at Snake. Hell of a strong ground game and very weak air game.

 

[Commander Claus]

Although Snake's recovery was a lot better and could cover distance.

I do want to wait a bit to really see his entire moveset before I think too much about tier placement, but I doubt it'd be high tier

 

[Spinosaurus]

Although Snake's recovery was a lot better and could cover distance.

It was really predictable and unsafe though. You're better off using a C4 on yourself lol. Mind you, Mac's is worse, but I don't think having a bad recovery is a be all end all for a character's metagame.

Mac's tier placement would depend on how bad grabs hurt him, and if he ends up slow in the air and floaty, then that'd be really bad.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I'm not convinced on poor air game just yet until we know all the details and not just his aerials. .

"You ain't no air fighter, Mac.
Quit foolin' around up there! Smash ain't no joke!"

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Considering his lightweight and awful recovery, I see him as medium tier, with the strong moves and KO punch barely upping him from low tier.

Lightweight? Where did you hear that from?