List of things to buff Mewtwo

[Revibe]

Acting out of teleport would be cool, but I don't think it would be necessary. He doesn't really need that. Plus it has zero chance of actually getting patched in. It just needs more invulnerability, less ending lag, and more reliability with sweetspotting the ledge. Those are the realistic changes I can see with it to aid it as a defensive tool.

Woah dude, can't you imagine a Mewtwo landing a fully charged Dark Ball(shot) after a Teleport from on stage, to over stage/off air?
[|)'-'){I say, and what if the Dark Ball shot was "as big a fully charged lucario's Aura Sphere.(when lucario has taken damage" Mewtwo is the strongest poke'mon anyway.(z(for this post at least hehe)).

I'll probably get flak for this but I think if we had someone who cared a little more some pretty neat and individual changes could happen. I don't think Sakurai and his team care anymore/don't care that much. [Look at PM the neat things they added and yes they got exposure but they aren't/can't sell it like Sakurai can.(Correct me if I'm wrong)] Making money should be a decent enough incentive to cater to fans who would buy a lot more DLC and bring in some awesome ideas straight out of the games themselves. I get that it does takes time but they chose to make this their career and that means that it is a part of their life.

Maybe I am actually asking for a lot but obviously balance would be priority as well as fixing anything that is off but more character should be brought to life in each individual.

Showcasing?

 

[Sonicninja115]

Mewtwo doesn't really need that many buffs. If teleport didn't send him into freefall then he would be an easy high tier.

He has a lot of strengths and a lot of weaknesses. If we are lucky they might remove a couple of weaknesses like Dthrow being horrible and his grab whiffing.

also, you just need to practice with teleport to learn how to sweetspot it. it isn't that hard after a little grinding. I learned to sweetspot from almost anywhere in a little over two weeks.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Mewtwo doesn't really need that many buffs. If teleport didn't send him into freefall then he would be an easy high tier.

He has a lot of strengths and a lot of weaknesses. If we are lucky they might remove a couple of weaknesses like Dthrow being horrible and his grab whiffing.

also, you just need to practice with teleport to learn how to sweetspot it. it isn't that hard after a little grinding. I learned to sweetspot from almost anywhere in a little over two weeks.

Online or offline play? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Sonicninja115]

offline play, Online is different because of the inclusion of lag. Offline Sweetspotting, even during a match is not hard for me.

Online or offline play? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[MagiusNecros]

So in a online match it is quite possible you can't always sweetspot. Quite a shame.

I can't even sweetspot off of platforms, probably because I suck or it's difficult to transition to Mewtwo from Bowser or Ganon.

 

[Revibe]

@ Sonicninja115
Maybe if his down b was actually Gengar attached to Mewtwo instead of Disable. Peach's Toad would be an accurate example of what I mean for move wise/set up frames.

So in a online match it is quite possible you can't always sweetspot. Quite a shame.

I can't even sweetspot off of platforms, probably because I suck or it's difficult to transition to Mewtwo from Bowser or Ganon.

Te[( that to the Captain Falcons I have faced in For Glory. Besides, direct Friend Code connection is much more friendly to online play. Way less connection errors. Didn't you know?)(^__^)]

 

[Sonicninja115]

So in a online match it is quite possible you can't always sweetspot. Quite a shame.

I can't even sweetspot off of platforms, probably because I suck or it's difficult to transition to Mewtwo from Bowser or Ganon.

I think that is always going to be a problem. Sweetspotting is a very precise tech that requires little to no lag or else you could SD. Even Shiek will have troubles sweetspotting online.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I think that is always going to be a problem. Sweetspotting is a very precise tech that requires little to no lag or else you could SD. Even Shiek will have troubles sweetspotting online.

Yeah if you need precision like with Sheik or even Meta Knight going online can go either way.

 

[HakuryuVision]

Mewtwo doesn't really need that many buffs. If teleport didn't send him into freefall then he would be an easy high tier.

He has a lot of strengths and a lot of weaknesses. If we are lucky they might remove a couple of weaknesses like Dthrow being horrible and his grab whiffing.

also, you just need to practice with teleport to learn how to sweetspot it. it isn't that hard after a little grinding. I learned to sweetspot from almost anywhere in a little over two weeks.

While i agree, i would also say his hitboxes need to be improved (fitting his visual animations) without it even counting as a "buff", but more like a "fix".

But yeah, teleport not FRIGGIN' sending you to your doom, better grab-box, and a better Dthrow would suffice as buffs.
Him being light and big is okay as long as Mewtwo can actually take advantage of his strength.

...and not die off because his stupid teleport.

 

[Snipnigth]

I think mewtwo is too damn big for been the second ligthest character, he need a bit more weight and less landing lag on fair or bair or both, would be nice too :3

 

[LRodC]

IMO:

Necessary Fixes/Buffs

Hitboxes on up air, up tilt, forward air, back air matching animations
Fixes to grab hitbox allowing it to match the animation and being fixed to be able to grab crouching/short characters
Eliminate teleport bouncing
Eliminate side smash whiffing point blank

Quality of Life Buffs

Down throw being able to combo
More powerful throws
Sped up jab
Increased speed of up tilt and forward tilt
Back air startup decreasing
More intangibility on tail attacks
Confusion damage increase and/or speed increase
Teleport landing lag decrease

Will Probably Never Happen

Weight and mobility changes
Shadow Ball being able to damage with charge
Teleport not putting you into free fall
Being able to b-reverse disable
Confusion being able to combo
General hurtbox changes

That's pretty much the master list in terms of priority I think. Items in each list are unordered.

The last list doesn't necessarily consist of changes I don't want, they're just changes I consider unrealistic due to this game's patch history.

 

[Sonicninja115]

IMO:

Necessary Fixes/Buffs

Hitboxes on up air, up tilt, forward air, back air matching animations
Fixes to grab hitbox allowing it to match the animation and being fixed to be able to grab crouching/short characters
Eliminate teleport bouncing
Eliminate side smash whiffing point blank

Quality of Life Buffs

Down throw being able to combo
More powerful throws
Sped up jab
Increased speed of up tilt and forward tilt
Back air startup decreasing
More intangibility on tail attacks
Confusion damage increase and/or speed increase
Teleport landing lag decrease

Will Probably Never Happen

Weight and mobility changes
Shadow Ball being able to damage with charge
Teleport not putting you into free fall
Being able to b-reverse disable
Confusion being able to combo
General hurtbox changes

That's pretty much the master list in terms of priority I think. Items in each list are unordered.

The last list doesn't necessarily consist of changes I don't want, they're just changes I consider unrealistic due to this game's patch history.

Some characters like Mario have the problem with Fsmash whiffing point blank but not to the same degree. By teleport bouncing do you mean offstage? or on stage into the ground?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Some characters like Mario have the problem with Fsmash whiffing point blank but not to the same degree. By teleport bouncing do you mean offstage? or on stage into the ground?

Offstage.

And the occasional ride the underside of stage thing.

It happens to Mewtwo the most often out of all teleports.

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

IMO:

Necessary Fixes/Buffs

Hitboxes on up air, up tilt, forward air, back air matching animations
Fixes to grab hitbox allowing it to match the animation and being fixed to be able to grab crouching/short characters
Eliminate teleport bouncing
Eliminate side smash whiffing point blank

Quality of Life Buffs

Down throw being able to combo 3
More powerful throws 3
Sped up jab
Increased speed of up tilt and forward tilt
Back air startup decreasing
More intangibility on tail attacks
Confusion damage increase and/or speed increase 1
Teleport landing lag decrease 2

Will Probably Never Happen

Weight and mobility changes
Shadow Ball being able to damage with charge
Teleport not putting you into free fall
Being able to b-reverse disable
Confusion being able to combo 1
General hurtbox changes 4

That's pretty much the master list in terms of priority I think. Items in each list are unordered.

The last list doesn't necessarily consist of changes I don't want, they're just changes I consider unrealistic due to this game's patch history.

1 I recall earlier posts saying confusion did not need to be changed. It is fine as is and it really doesn't need to combo or at least true combo. There are some vids showing people people who didn't react fast enough getting comboed out of confusion and I do believe it combos in the air.

2 Haven't really seen the frame data for it since while I like playing as him I don't main him. Is it that much worse/= compared to Palutena/Zelda(kind of Sheik) because if so then it does need a fix since no hurtbox like Z/S and shorter distance than Palutena, but remember you can always practice ledge cancels like every Mewtwo player has to mandatory learn.

3 Didn't his forward throw get a buff? I don't seem to remember people hating on his throws as I can combo out of Dthrow and Uthrow kills (especially early on some legal stages and even earlier if you catch the morons on a platform). I'll take your word on the Dthrow one I really like M2 but I only play him for fun since I'm really bad at using him.

4 @Browny is going to come in and ...........oh no he's here you can't stop....

 

[HakuryuVision]

Didn't his forward throw get a buff? I don't seem to remember people hating on his throws as I can combo out of Dthrow and Uthrow kills (especially early on some legal stages and even earlier if you catch the morons on a platform).

Yupp, forward throw did get a buff. It's the most damaging out of his throws now, making it good for racking up damage (12% i think).
A throw you can combo into would be much much better though.

-And you can not combo out of Dthrow.
It does lead to set ups, (example; if opponent air dodges, you can use disable), but Mewtwo has no true combo out of Dthrow. In most situations the opponent actually can just jump away to safety.

Someone did a very thorough job on his Dthrow options, but i don't remember who and which thread. D :

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

Yupp, forward throw did get a buff. It's the most damaging out of his throws now, making it good for racking up damage (12% i think).
A throw you can combo into would be much much better though.

-And you can not combo out of Dthrow.
It does lead to set ups, (example; if opponent air dodges, you can use disable), but Mewtwo has no true combo out of Dthrow. In most situations the opponent actually can just jump away to safety.

Someone did a very thorough job on his Dthrow options, but i don't remember who and which thread. D :

Can't you also get out of ZSS's Dthrow. If you DI away she has to follow you. I don't think that is truly guaranteed like Mario's Dthrow into Utilt but even that can get out of with a quick startup move.

 

[meleebrawler]

IMO:

Necessary Fixes/Buffs

Hitboxes on up air, up tilt, forward air, back air matching animations
Fixes to grab hitbox allowing it to match the animation and being fixed to be able to grab crouching/short characters
Eliminate teleport bouncing
Eliminate side smash whiffing point blank

Quality of Life Buffs

Down throw being able to combo
More powerful throws
Sped up jab
Increased speed of up tilt and forward tilt
Back air startup decreasing
More intangibility on tail attacks
Confusion damage increase and/or speed increase
Teleport landing lag decrease

Will Probably Never Happen

Weight and mobility changes
Shadow Ball being able to damage with charge
Teleport not putting you into free fall
Being able to b-reverse disable
Confusion being able to combo
General hurtbox changes

That's pretty much the master list in terms of priority I think. Items in each list are unordered.

The last list doesn't necessarily consist of changes I don't want, they're just changes I consider unrealistic due to this game's patch history.

Isn't decreasing bair's startup literally the exact way to make it fully match the animation without making it a simple aesthetic change?

In fact most of the hitbox issues you mentioned really aren't as bad as you make them out to be or at least aren't as necessary. Uair already has a very wide hit above Mewtwo, I've had zero issue with fair missing due to being too close (the example you showed involves the attack not coming out due to landing too soon, not something to do with the hitbox), and bair would be pretty ridiculous if it did match. The only one I agree with is utilt to give it more of a niche compared to usmash.

Weird that you want Mewtwo's grab to match the animation, then flip-flop and say you want it to hit lower which would ironically make it not match. Also for the record, only his dash grab is significant in terms of bad hitbox.

 

[Snipnigth]

If sakurai never reads this post all these talk is gonna be useless D;

 

[pikazz]

imaging if DThrow could combo into anything at any %, god what mewtwo would be much better

(DTilt)->Jab->Grab->DThrow->NAir-> (DJ+NAir Again ->) FAir/BAir for some early fast %

Jab-> Grab -> DThrow -> FAir -> FAir Chains for more damage giving

Jab-> Grab -> DThrow -> UAir -> "Rising Claw" (Double Jump+UAir and FAir) at 70-80% will kill the opponent, would be more common and better if UAir combos into itself more easy (it does with spot-on frame)

Jab-> Grab -> DThrow -> UpSmash

Jab-> Grab -> DThrow -> DAir at ledge

 

[HakuryuVision]

imaging if DThrow could combo into anything at any %, god what mewtwo would be much better

(DTilt)->Jab->Grab->DThrow->NAir-> (DJ+NAir Again ->) FAir/BAir for some early fast %

Jab-> Grab -> DThrow -> FAir -> FAir Chains for more damage giving

Jab-> Grab -> DThrow -> UAir -> "Rising Claw" (Double Jump+UAir and FAir) at 70-80% will kill the opponent, would be more common and better if UAir combos into itself more easy (it does with spot-on frame)

Jab-> Grab -> DThrow -> UpSmash

Jab-> Grab -> DThrow -> DAir at ledge

Please stop.
I can only get this erect.

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

imaging if DThrow could combo into anything at any %, god what mewtwo would be much better

(DTilt)->Jab->Grab->DThrow->NAir-> (DJ+NAir Again ->) FAir/BAir for some early fast %

Jab-> Grab -> DThrow -> FAir -> FAir Chains for more damage giving

Jab-> Grab -> DThrow -> UAir -> "Rising Claw" (Double Jump+UAir and FAir) at 70-80% will kill the opponent, would be more common and better if UAir combos into itself more easy (it does with spot-on frame)

Jab-> Grab -> DThrow -> UpSmash

Jab-> Grab -> DThrow -> DAir at ledge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_km4P28AM0 You probably have seen this and I'm not against you or anything but this is always fun to watch and it makes me smile.

 

[godogod]

8 more days guys.. I wonder if Sakurai will give him the WFT treatment.. As in 1-2% damage buffs across the board for half a dozen moves and grab hitbox fixed for shorter characters. >_>

I want to believe in getting his melee weight back at least, and getting those other hitboxes fixed, but man.. The odds are against us... I'm sure he saw the videos and people complaining about Mewtwo though. I won't have high expectations. >_>

 

[MagiusNecros]

They don't change weight. So don't get your hopes up.

He even nerfed our upsmash previously.

 

[SnowmanEX711]

I don't know what to suggest, but this is what I personally feel they need to buff on Mewtwo.

1) Make him heavier (Up to mid weight)
2) Buff his other throws (Forward throw got a buff, but his others are still pretty meh. It would be cool if he was able to combo of his D-Throw)
3) Make his Down Special useful (IMO, this has go to be one of the worst moves out there. IDK how, but please, in case someone hasn't already, come up with a way to make this move actually usable)

But I know this ideas won't ever happen

 

[LRodC]

I don't know what to suggest, but this is what I personally feel they need to buff on Mewtwo.

1) Make him heavier (Up to mid weight)
2) Buff his other throws (Forward throw got a buff, but his others are still pretty meh. It would be cool if he was able to combo of his D-Throw)
3) Make his Down Special useful (IMO, this has go to be one of the worst moves out there. IDK how, but please, in case someone hasn't already, come up with a way to make this move actually usable)

But I know this ideas won't ever happen

What exactly do you want out of Disable? I'm not sure why people classify it as useless. It has decent range and has huge reward for landing it with relatively short lag to compensate. The actual stun part is about as balanced as it can get without it becoming borderline broken (from a setup or something) or not making any sense (hitting the opponent's back). Unless you wanted to buff the aerial version or its shield properties, I'm not sure what else you would want from it. Mewtwo has plenty of problems and this is not one of them, IMO.

 

[MagiusNecros]

What exactly do you want out of Disable? I'm not sure why people classify it as useless. It has decent range and has huge reward for landing it. The actual stun part is about as balanced as it can get without it becoming borderline broken (from a setup or something) or not making any sense. Unless you wanted to buff the aerial version, I'm not sure what else you would want from it. Mewtwo has plenty of problems and this is not one of them, IMO.

Should go through shields. Move states it works from the front by Mewtwo having eye contact with the opponent.

It then becomes a move where you have to make guesswork with the range of the move and only use it to punish a predictable attack and even then you can only get a stun off the ground.

Furthermore there is a 50% chance it could just completely miss small targets like Kirby.

And Disable is too slow to follow up after Jab 1.

Aerial version should either spike or do more damage. You don't really get much use out of it.

 

[Mo433]

Should go through shields. Move states it works from the front by Mewtwo having eye contact with the opponent.

It then becomes a move where you have to make guesswork with the range of the move and only use it to punish a predictable attack and even then you can only get a stun off the ground.

Furthermore there is a 50% chance it could just completely miss small targets like Kirby.

And Disable is too slow to follow up after Jab 1.

Aerial version should either spike or do more damage. You don't really get much use out of it.

Going through shields is asking for a bit much, but I would like to see that move work better on smaller characters. It barely hits even when a chatacter like Kirby is standing.

 

[Revibe]

Well, Marth gets more reward for breaking a shield than Mewtwo does for landing a disable. I think the opponents just get out of it to fast I feel. I wouldn't mind mewtwo being a bit slower, lighter, more agile... Not all characters need to be speedy to win. What if the disable was charge-able or Mewtwo rushed forward when performing the attack?

Personally I am not interested in Disable tuning. I think his Side B needs to catch up with all the other Side B grabs the game presented. Bowser and Ganon have drastic game changing side b's when off the ledge, and mewtwo just spins the opponent with out any useful knock back or spacing. Granted, it does reflect projectiles, but even fox uses his reflecter to gimp. I don't know...

 

[Furret24]

Well, Marth gets more reward for breaking a shield than Mewtwo does for landing a disable. I think the opponents just get out of it to fast I feel. I wouldn't mind mewtwo being a bit slower, lighter, more agile... Not all characters need to be speedy to win. What if the disable was charge-able or Mewtwo rushed forward when performing the attack?

Personally I am not interested in Disable tuning. I think his Side B needs to catch up with all the other Side B grabs the game presented. Bowser and Ganon have drastic game changing side b's when off the ledge, and mewtwo just spins the opponent with out any useful knock back or spacing. Granted, it does reflect projectiles, but even fox uses his reflecter to gimp. I don't know...

Make the 2nd lightest character in the game even lighter?

Genius.

 

[Snipnigth]

Would be awsome if desable worked as a shield breaker, if opponent shield it.

 

[meleebrawler]

Well, Marth gets more reward for breaking a shield than Mewtwo does for landing a disable. I think the opponents just get out of it to fast I feel. I wouldn't mind mewtwo being a bit slower, lighter, more agile... Not all characters need to be speedy to win. What if the disable was charge-able or Mewtwo rushed forward when performing the attack?

Personally I am not interested in Disable tuning. I think his Side B needs to catch up with all the other Side B grabs the game presented. Bowser and Ganon have drastic game changing side b's when off the ledge, and mewtwo just spins the opponent with out any useful knock back or spacing. Granted, it does reflect projectiles, but even fox uses his reflecter to gimp. I don't know...

The only person Fox is ever gimping in this game with his reflector is Little Mac.

Bowsercide is very unreliable.

Flame Choke leaves Ganondorf helpless.

Confusion also works as a reliable recovery and mobility tool in the air. Landing an aerial Confusion can be pretty huge if you preserve your second jump.

Thing about Shield Breaker is that can just... you know... not shield and you won't get stunned. That's the key difference. And getting it to the point where you'll get a guaranteed stun of a shield takes an agonizingly long time.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Kinda feel it should do shield damage comparable to Max Charge SB since Disable in itself is a huge risk move, I think the move not working at all when an opponents back is turned balance's this out.

 

[Mo433]

My main buff would be his landing lag on pretty much all of his aerials. Mewtwo is pretty much the only light character that has that much end lag on his air attacks.

 

[Furret24]

My main buff would be his landing lag on pretty much all of his aerials. Mewtwo is pretty much the only light character that has that much end lag on his air attacks.

Total Aerial Landing Lag Frame Data For Every Characters With a Weight Below 80 in this Game

- 100
- 134
- 105
- 85
- 69 (Wut?)
- 86
- 93
- 93

Your statement is false.

 

[godogod]

They don't change weight. So don't get your hopes up.

He even nerfed our upsmash previously.

It's not impossible. There's a first for everything. Sakurai is predictable.. But with that said, I'm no expecting it.

 

[Mo433]

Total Aerial Landing Lag Frame Data For Every Characters With a Weight Below 80 in this Game

- 100
- 134
- 105
- 85
- 69 (Wut?)
- 86
- 93
- 93

Your statement is false.

Lol I wasn't aware of that. I dunno to me it just feels like Mewtwo is a lot slower than all the other light characters in this game, at least in the air. Maybe I'm getting landing lag confused with start up.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Land lag wise I really really hate Teleport. Especially diagonal slide.

You kinda sit there for a second and can't get in a quick hit.

And his dash stop is dumb with the whole spin around and then stop kind of thing.

 

[pikazz]

something that would be cool for disable would be:

it ignores shield/invincibility. meaning that if you Disable on a perfect shield, it will still hit and make the opponent dizzy without breaking the shield

if it ignores invincibility, that would also make all spot/airdodges useless against disble since it will be able to hit those as long as they are faced against you

or that Disable is much faster so a Jab to Disable is a true combo

 

[Furret24]

something that would be cool for disable would be:

it ignores shield/invincibility. meaning that if you Disable on a perfect shield, it will still hit and make the opponent dizzy without breaking the shield

if it ignores invincibility, that would also make all spot/airdodges useless against disble since it will be able to hit those as long as they are faced against you

or that Disable is much faster so a Jab to Disable is a true combo

Having it ignore perfect shields and invincibility is kinda op. Having it go through standard shields like KO Punch sounds reasonable though.

 

[Revibe]

In melee, didn't disable while in the air just drop the opponent as if their shield was freshly broke? Why does it have knock back in the air anyway and no Disabling effects? If it was fixed to say a Sleep effect (because hypnosis and psychic physic's accuracy), they would drop in the air and try to wake up, I feel that might really balance him out since it is hard to land in the air anyway.

(Also jigglypuff really needs more range with her Sing, but it could be added to her as well.)

meleebrawler Moves that have some uncertainty bring a bit of balance don't they though?