List of things to buff Mewtwo

[Douglas Jay Ganon]

Also it should NOT cost him a special fall from this, so he could use it to poof an opponent over the edge without SD'ing.

^This just gave an idea. What if Mewtwo had one cool mechanic with the up b? If he hasn't used a second jump, the up won't let him in free fall, and he still could do the second jump. Also, he wouldn't have that momentum at the end of the up b, and the animation can be completely cancel by an attack. That way Mewtwo could really do some really flashy DBZ ****, when calculated well.

Btw, if you use the second jump after teleport, you won't be able to up b again. But you won't be in free fall.
If you use the up b after the second jump, the momentum will be gained again, and you well free fall.

Rate the idea, I would like to see your opinions on this. Pointless flashy shiet? Game changing? ZeRo would switch to Mewtwo?

 

[Furret24]

Incoming, Uncharted/Rogue Opinion here:

I think Up B should Teleport mewtwo and anyone near mewtwo to the spot were mewtwo went. Also it should NOT cost him a special fall from this, so he could use it to poof an opponent over the edge without SD'ing.

I think Telenor is fine outside of it's difficulties autographing the ledge.

 

[ToTs]

Hitbox on SB charge

Accurate hitbox "Bair Utilt"

Up-B no bounce (less lag like sheik or pika would be nice, may be pushing it tho)

Grab range seems off by a little.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Dash grab range should really be worked on, since it's just way off when compared to Melee Mewtwo's dash grab range.

 

[pikazz]

http://smashboards.com/threads/mr-f...-revamp-round-two.398158/page-8#post-19695509

http://smashboards.com/threads/mr-f...-revamp-round-two.398158/page-8#post-19731142

Roughly 2/5 (40%) of Mewtwos tail is intangible, not just the tip.

The idea of Mewtwos hitbox extending on this tail is just a massive misconception, one of many that plagues smashboards.

For an example of an attack which ACTUALLY extends the hurtbox, look at Yoshis fair
http://gfycat.com/AmbitiousTintedHornshark

a Hitbox/Hurtbox will be bigger/Smaller if the said part is increasing in bone Size (a great example there Yoshis Headbone increasing in FAir or Warios UpSmash there his HeadBone is almost twice in size)

the only time when a bone is "intagable" is when it has a command in the attack file that says its intagable/invincible/super-heavy armor, otherwise the hitbox and hurtbox will always be the same size

A mechanic I thought of. When Mewtwo has shadowball charged up, all of his shadow attacks should deal more damage and knock back as well as having larger hitboxes.

I would love this! would really make it up!
that way, its the best to keep a fully charge Shadow Ball to power yourself up and kill it with it later!

 

[MagiusNecros]

A mechanic I thought of. When Mewtwo has shadowball charged up, all of his shadow attacks should deal more damage and knock back as well as having larger hitboxes.

I approve of this idea.

Especially since I never max charge to fake out my opponent.

Since if you have glowy hands they know you got a SB ready for em.

But just a little off max charge they will forget about it.

And you can hold it before throwing it too!

 

[godogod]

So can someone explain to me how Mewtwo's hurtbox is extended during his tail attacks? I tested this in training mode, and the tip of the attacks is intangible. This is similar to Bowser's forward tilt and forward smash which have the same properties. However, what makes Mewtwo worse in this regard? Don't most moves attached to the user's body act like this unless programmed otherwise (such as charizard's up tilt and Mario's up smash)? Wouldn't this be a thing affecting multiple characters?

Also that would definitely be awesome for Disable and make sense, but there's no way it will ever get the stun effect in the air. That would be busted. I'd rather it just get more knockback.

The stun time could be cut in half or something like that. That's what I suggest at least.

 

[MagiusNecros]

how to buff mewtwo!
L R A START SHEIK

I know you are trying to be funny. But it doesn't really improve Mewtwo's situation.

 

[MagiusNecros]

All I see is "Mewtwo not playing well in this matchup? Switch to Sheik. "

 

[meleebrawler]

There's really only two moves that I feel could use buffs that would fix some holes in his game: more damage on his utilt to make it a more solid anti-air and uair to be stronger and/or faster to make his juggling more potent. Anything else would basically just be nice-to-haves or quality-of-life things that wouldn't impact Mewtwo that much (except a faster bair. That'd be kind of ridiculous unless they severely lower it's damage).

 

[godogod]

Is Mewtwo the only character in the game that has no real coverage from behind? He really needs one badly. Up tilt is bad enough as it is, and obviously down smash hits in front of him. Yeah, there's a couple of characters that have a down smash that only hits in one direction, but they do they not have coverage from behind from other moves?

I feel like Sakurai did this on purpose. Give him good long roles, but not be able to punish other rollers/protect his back. Not fair.

I wish he gave him the Lucas treatment. A small hitbox from behind at least. Or fix up tilt at least to have a hitbox through the whole area of of his tail.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I would change the cool down on usmash by a lot of frames. I would also give it some sort of suction effect kinda like rob's usmash.

Jab start up on 4 frames
Dtilt does more damage starts up on frame 5.
Nair start up on frame 4 bigger hit boxes around him.
Fair bigger hit box start up on frame 6
Back air better hitbox
Uair start up on frame 8
Dsmash start up on frame 19
Fsmash better hit box start up on frame 15
Utilt start on frame 6 better hitboxes

Improved grab and dash grab

 

[MagiusNecros]

Is Mewtwo the only character in the game that has no real coverage from behind? He really needs one badly. Up tilt is bad enough as it is, and obviously down smash hits in front of him. Yeah, there's a couple of characters that have a down smash that only hits in one direction, but they do they not have coverage from behind from other moves?

I feel like Sakurai did this on purpose. Give him good long roles, but not be able to punish other rollers/protect his back. Not fair.

I wish he gave him the Lucas treatment. A small hitbox from behind at least. Or fix up tilt at least to have a hitbox through the whole area of of his tail.

Yep Mewtwo has no option to cover his ass from behind. Only Psyshock his Nair does anything like that.

 

[ToTs]

I really want shadow ball to have a Hitbox like lucario.

 

[meleebrawler]

Is Mewtwo the only character in the game that has no real coverage from behind? He really needs one badly. Up tilt is bad enough as it is, and obviously down smash hits in front of him. Yeah, there's a couple of characters that have a down smash that only hits in one direction, but they do they not have coverage from behind from other moves?

I feel like Sakurai did this on purpose. Give him good long roles, but not be able to punish other rollers/protect his back. Not fair.

I wish he gave him the Lucas treatment. A small hitbox from behind at least. Or fix up tilt at least to have a hitbox through the whole area of of his tail.

Ryu doesn't have anything to hit behind either except tatsumaki which is weak there and highly punishable, is he bad too?

It's really not hard to keep enemies from sneaking from behind unless they're roll spammers, which can easily be read anyway.

 

[zeldasmash]

Ryu doesn't have anything to hit behind either except tatsumaki which is weak there and highly punishable, is he bad too?

It's really not hard to keep enemies from sneaking from behind unless they're roll spammers, which can easily be read anyway.

Ryu does have Focus Attack, in which he can dash cancel for either a retreat or do a Shoryuken punish depending on the move. Or straight up Focus Attack + Shoryu.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Ryu does have Focus Attack, in which he can dash cancel for either a retreat or do a Shoryuken punish depending on the move. Or straight up Focus Attack + Shoryu.

Not to mention he can start it in one direction and attack in the opposite one if they roll behind him.

 

[godogod]

yes its particularly rolll spammers I'd like to fight against.

 

[Revibe]

Since Mewtwo doesn't need to walk using his feet, I thought it would be cool if, while on the ground, hitting down b gives you a 'dash-like-thrust' at the opponent. If side b has air bounce, why not down b have rush joust? Plus it's always fun to see mewtwo move in ways that are 'pysch-esk'.

^This just gave an idea. What if Mewtwo had one cool mechanic with the up b? If he hasn't used a second jump, the up won't let him in free fall, and he still could do the second jump. Also, he wouldn't have that momentum at the end of the up b, and the animation can be completely cancel by an attack. That way Mewtwo could really do some really flashy DBZ ****, when calculated well.

Btw, if you use the second jump after teleport, you won't be able to up b again. But you won't be in free fall.
If you use the up b after the second jump, the momentum will be gained again, and you well free fall.

Rate the idea, I would like to see your opinions on this. Pointless flashy shiet? Game changing? ZeRo would switch to Mewtwo?

I think it's really cool! I think it could be suggested for custom moves, since mewtwo doesn't have any yet.
It would be Game changing, but not in anyones favor. It just would be fun to fight!

 

[MagiusNecros]

I don't think DLC's are geting customs.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

I feel like Sakurai did this on purpose. Give him good long roles, but not be able to punish other rollers/protect his back. Not fair.

"I feel like Sakurai did this on purpose", "Not fair". Both phrases sum up Mewtwo's entire situation.

 

[godogod]

If he was mid to high tier, it wouldn't be a big issue. But since he already has so many shortcomings, this adds to it and hurts him more.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Back again here with another list of buffs.

After playing Mewtwo a bit more, I noticed several large problems that make many matchups in the game basically unwinnable. I think these problems need to be fixed as soon as possible in order to make him usable.

• Grab needs to be lower so mewtwo can grab shorter characters.
• Bair should have larger hitbox that matches the animation as well as less startup.
• Rolls and ledge getup should have more invincibility.

Most of these changes are pretty self explanatory. Mewtwo's grab being so high and slow is a large reason he has such a hard time vs characters such as Marth and Kirby. Having his grab shortened similar to Wii Fit would fix this issue. A buff to make his bair more functional would really help Mewtwo's edge guarding game since that is his best move for edge guarding. Less startup would also be nice since the move is so react-able. Mewtwo's roll and ledge getup having more invincibility would help him avoid getting hit, which is crucial due to his fragility.

Some other changes I don't think are completely necessary, but would like to see as well:

• Up tilt: Better Hatboxes that match animation.
• Up Throw: Less endlag, greater Knockback.
• Back Throw: Greater Knockback.
• Down Throw and Teleport: Less endlag.
• Neutral Air: Larger hitboxes.
• Fair: Less startup, more range.
• Up Air: Better Hitboxes that match animation.

 

[godogod]

I agree with the grab animation by doing something similar with WFT.

I think his rolls are fine.

Up B needs to teleport properly when below at a stage and not SD him. This is really important.

If uptilt came out faster and covered the entire area of the animation, it would be a decent move against rollers. Though I wish Mewtwo got the Lucas treatment for downsmash and got a small hitbox behind him to fight against rollers.

I agree with everything else you listed. Other than that, he should be heavier. At least Melee weight(85) or near medium weight for the upper range.


P.S. Did ou guys know that Zero made a video about Mewtwo about a month ago? It's gotten like over 80k views. He didn't mention hitbox issues, but he got most of the problems down.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Link it dude.

And they aren't altering weight. No weight changes in any patch ever.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

And they aren't altering weight. No weight changes in any patch ever.

The closest they've come to a weight change was increasing Luma's HP. But HP is solely related to Luma and not to anyone else in the game, so, yeah, a weight buff seems impossible.

 

[MagiusNecros]

The closest they've come to a weight change was increasing Luma's HP. But HP is solely related to Luma and not to anyone else in the game, so, yeah, a weight buff seems impossible.

So yeah on that note we got screwed.

 

[godogod]

Video^^



I don't think we'll get everything either that we requested. Cetainly not at once. But considering that some characters got pretty significant buffs via patches over time, it leaves me fairly optimistic. His hitbox issues(including grab), his teleport, and a few others have a fairly good chance of being patched IMO. Sure a weight change isn't a shoe in, but I certainly don't see it as impossible. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it never will. Especially considering he got a weight nerf from melee, which makes no apparent sense(only one with a significant weight nerf).

 

[Revibe]

I approve of this idea.

Especially since I never max charge to fake out my opponent.

Since if you have glowy hands they know you got a SB ready for em.

But just a little off max charge they will forget about it.

And you can hold it before throwing it too!

The 'glowy hands' aren't really good for faking out the opponent, that is correct. I do think they should buff mewtwo in an 'psy-burn' kinda show-case.

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss Mewtwo's shortcomings and accompanied buffs for not only smash fans, but in hopes of reaching the developers to make him a competitive and enjoyable fighter in a future patch for the smash community!

Summarized Complaints From the Video
1. Up air, forward air back air, up tilt, have animations that do not match their hitboxes and tend to miss completely as a result
2. Forward smash tends to whiff at point blank range
3. Grab animation whiffs often, particularly against short characters
4. Mewtwo is the second lightest character in the game, even significantly lighter than his melee counterpart(from 85 in melee to 72 in smash four). Doesn't help that he has a large hurtbox
5. Teleport often fails to connect to certain stage ledges, often making him bounce away from the ledge leaving the player to SD. Teleport also leaves him vulnerable to damage throughout the animation, unlike other up special recoveries that behave similarly to teleport from other characters(Palutena and Zelda)
.

This should not be considered a buff they are glitches that need to be patched. Also the bridge of eldin happens to Palutena too unless that was fixed but regardless it is a bad omega.

I even agree with #3 only because M2 uses psychic powers with his moves. I did not like the WFT change. I'm a big fan of interesting and cool things that make characters who they are. Link/TL with their shield and walking towards you deflecting projectiles. We need more interesting mechanics like that.

Another "fix" should be to increase his weight and have shadow ball like aura sphere. From what I have read in this thread some of you want him balanced and others want him pre-patch Diddy. Good suggestions all around though but only a few should make it because if all do then he gets OP.

I think Up B should Teleport mewtwo and anyone near mewtwo to the spot were mewtwo went. Also it should NOT cost him a special fall from this, so he could use it to poof an opponent over the edge without SD'ing.

I agree but it has to be balanced. Like how DJG said but also they would have to be really close to M2 not jiggly rest close but close otherwise it doesn't take them and I don't want a vacuum with it either if they are out of range then that's that.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Mewtwo should be able to act out of Teleport. So he is you know unique in that aspect.

 

[Revibe]

@ Clock Tower Prison
I was also thinking, if we don't have Dark Ball act like Aura Sphere, can mewtwo at least pyschic walk while he charges?
Or, why does he use such close-ranged moves for being a psychic heavy character. I'm not saying he needs to rank up with Ness or Lucas, because they wield elements with their psychic. I am saying, Mewtwo would make an interesting battle if when he hits shield, it was more barrier like or it creates a small field around it, and acts like Palutena's custom move Heavenly Light. So picture a mewtwo with a better R, and it softly pushes the opponent back with maybe some psy damage splashed on.

I honestly don't understand why all the shields are the same, except for yoshi. I wonder what Fox or Falco would play like if reflect was their R or if Marth's counter was R. You guys know what I mean?

 

[MagiusNecros]

I do like the idea of a moving shield. Too bad moving with shield up forces a roll.

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

@ Clock Tower Prison
I was also thinking, if we don't have Dark Ball act like Aura Sphere, can mewtwo at least pyschic walk while he charges?
Or, why does he use such close-ranged moves for being a psychic heavy character. I'm not saying he needs to rank up with Ness or Lucas, because they wield elements with their psychic. I am saying, Mewtwo would make an interesting battle if when he hits shield, it was more barrier like or it creates a small field around it, and acts like Palutena's custom move Heavenly Light. So picture a mewtwo with a better R, and it softly pushes the opponent back with maybe some psy damage splashed on.

I honestly don't understand why all the shields are the same, except for yoshi. I wonder what Fox or Falco would play like if reflect was their R or if Marth's counter was R. You guys know what I mean?

That is interesting and yes I would like some diversity. As for Marth/Roy/Lucina/Ike/(maybeLink/TL) Their shield could instead be parry. If anyone has played the Witcher 3 seriously go out and buy it now it would be like how you block in that game where you just deflect. There are probably other games that have that but it just came to mind the quickest for me. I'm not sure if they should be able to move or not but it would be cool and obviously it would not do damage like counter.

@ MagiusNecros
You can actually move a little to the left or right to position your shield better. And they could always do it like Link where you can walk very slowly towards the opponent but if your stick is pushed too much you run.

Does this make sense to anyone? Sometimes I don't really word things properly.

Edit: Also before anyone may think overpowered. Obviously the shield properties would still apply like you can still be grabbed out of it and it breaks if it takes enough damage etc....

 

[LRodC]

Acting out of teleport would be cool, but I don't think it would be necessary. He doesn't really need that. Plus it has zero chance of actually getting patched in. It just needs more invulnerability, less ending lag, and more reliability with sweetspotting the ledge. Those are the realistic changes I can see with it to aid it as a defensive tool.

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

Acting out of teleport would be cool, but I don't think it would be necessary. He doesn't really need that. Plus it has zero chance of actually getting patched in. It just needs more invulnerability, less ending lag, and more reliability with sweetspotting the ledge. Those are the realistic changes I can see with it to aid it as a defensive tool.

I'll probably get flak for this but I think if we had someone who cared a little more some pretty neat and individual changes could happen. I don't think Sakurai and his team care anymore/don't care that much. [Look at PM the neat things they added and yes they got exposure but they aren't/can't sell it like Sakurai can.(Correct me if I'm wrong)] Making money should be a decent enough incentive to cater to fans who would buy a lot more DLC and bring in some awesome ideas straight out of the games themselves. I get that it does takes time but they chose to make this their career and that means that it is a part of their life.

Maybe I am actually asking for a lot but obviously balance would be priority as well as fixing anything that is off but more character should be brought to life in each individual.

 

[MagiusNecros]

What needs to change is the purple warp thing having a hurtbox. Get rid of that ASAP.

 

[Karsticles]

What needs to change is the purple warp thing having a hurtbox. Get rid of that ASAP.

Hum?

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Hum?

I think he's referring to the animation where Mewtwo disappears and reappears with teleport.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I think he's referring to the animation where Mewtwo disappears and reappears with teleport.

Yeah he's still vulnerable when he starts and ends the warp.

The purple distortion thing.