List of things to buff Mewtwo

[Number Three]

It's a shame how gimmicky Mewtwo feels and is. The hitboxes of his attacks are weird and his hurtbox is extremely big. It really feels like he was rushed to be completed and he had some very, VERY poor design choices put into his creation. I really hope they fix his hitboxes just like they did with Meta Knight and Wii Fit. The grabbox of his grab is also pretty wonky, too. Also, he needs a huge buff to the power and speed of his moves. He should be able to KO his opponents as early as they can KO him. Mewtwo is supposed to be a glass cannon, yet the only thing about him which actually makes him feel like the cannon part of that is Up Smash (which they nerfed). It would be very interesting to have a powerhouse character who's main weakness isn't lag and poor speed, but instead his feather-like weight. Hopefully, Mewtwo will get the good buffs that he deserves. Meta Knight was originally considered one of the worst characters in Smash 4 and his buffs managed to make him significantly better. It could happen to Mewtwo. The ultimate buff would be buffing his weight to mid-weight level, but I strongly doubt that will ever happen, so fix his poor hitboxes and buff the power and speed of his attacks.

 

[FrankTheStud]

It's a shame how gimmicky Mewtwo feels and is. The hitboxes of his attacks are weird and his hurtbox is extremely big. It really feels like he was rushed to be completed and he had some very, VERY poor design choices put into his creation. I really hope they fix his hitboxes just like they did with Meta Knight and Wii Fit. The grabbox of his grab is also pretty wonky, too. Also, he needs a huge buff to the power and speed of his moves. He should be able to KO his opponents as early as they can KO him. Mewtwo is supposed to be a glass cannon, yet the only thing about him which actually makes him feel like the cannon part of that is Up Smash (which they nerfed). It would be very interesting to have a powerhouse character who's main weakness isn't lag and poor speed, but instead his feather-like weight. Hopefully, Mewtwo will get the good buffs that he deserves. Meta Knight was originally considered one of the worst characters in Smash 4 and his buffs managed to make him significantly better. It could happen to Mewtwo. The ultimate buff would be buffing his weight to mid-weight level, but I strongly doubt that will ever happen, so fix his poor hitboxes and buff the power and speed of his attacks.

I don't think his weight will change... It would be a big change if it were to. Making his hitboxes and grab box accurate/precise would really do him wonders. He has two kill throws, great recovery, two stuns, a reflect, good spacing options, a good projectile, a spike, and is already incredibly powerful. He doesn't need the strength of Ganondorf with what he has already... If he killed at 80% on heavies, like you suggest he should, (assuming he doesn't gimp/spike) he would be broken.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

I don't think his weight will change... It would be a big change if it were to. Making his hitboxes and grab box accurate/precise would really do him wonders. He has two kill throws, great recovery, two stuns, a reflect, good spacing options, a good projectile, a spike, and is already incredibly powerful. He doesn't need the strength of Ganondorf with what he has already... If he killed at 80% on heavies, like you suggest he should, (assuming he doesn't gimp/spike) he would be broken.

If he has the ability to combo, space, and kill with relative ease, then having his weight be a weakness is okay. Right now, his weight is only exacerbating the problem because he can't combo, space well enough, or kill very easily because of his hitboxes being a mess, and having no reliable setup to combo. The question is, will this ever actually get addressed? All we can do is hope.

 

[FrankTheStud]

If he has the ability to combo, space, and kill with relative ease, then having his weight be a weakness is okay. Right now, his weight is only exacerbating the problem because he can't combo, space well enough, or kill very easily because of his hitboxes being a mess, and having no reliable setup to combo. The question is, will this ever actually get addressed? All we can do is hope.

It was for Meta Knight and Wii Fit. No worries.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

It was for Meta Knight and Wii Fit. No worries.

Oh, you didn't hear the truth yet? Sakurai hates Mewtwo, that's why I worry about Mewtwo ever getting fixed.

 

[LRodC]

Oh, you didn't hear the truth yet? Sakurai hates Mewtwo, that's why I worry about Mewtwo ever getting fixed.

If he hated him that badly, he would've kept him in Melee haha.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

If he hated him that badly, he would've kept him in Melee haha.

No, it is much more cruel to announce that they are bringing him back, make us wait 6 months, and then don't change him at all and make him a bottom tier character again, as if they didn't even try, after getting all of our hopes up.

 

[LRodC]

No, it is much more cruel to announce that they are bringing him back, make us wait 6 months, and then don't change him at all and make him a bottom tier character again, as if they didn't even try, after getting all of our hopes up.

Don't use the victim mentality. Be happy your character is at least in the game. That's more than previous Wolf, ICs, and Snake mains (hi) in Brawl can say.

I know it sucks, but all you can do is hope that he gets buffed. The game has a long life still, so it could happen.

 

[FrankTheStud]

Don't use the victim mentality. Be happy your character is at least in the game. That's more than previous Wolf and Snake mains in Brawl can say.

Or Ice Climbers... I hope Icies and Wolf come back...

 

[Gnight]

Don't use the victim mentality. Be happy your character is at least in the game.

Is Mewtwo being in smash with cancer really preferable than him not being in smash at all?

 

[Xzsmmc]

Is Mewtwo being in smash with cancer really preferable than him not being in smash at all?

Yes. I'd rather have bottom tier Mewtwo than no Mewtwo at all. Even if he sucks, I can at least use him. You wanna see a truly undesirable fate?

 

[Powerman293]

If Mewtwo could get an Upsmash windbox much like Marth, I'd be cool with it. I haven't played the character much outside of his inital release, but that would be a helpful change.

 

[RayNoire]

I mean, I like him more than Link, my previous main. But he's also a much worse character than Link.

So regular me and competitive me are kind of at odds there.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

Don't use the victim mentality. Be happy your character is at least in the game. That's more than previous Wolf, ICs, and Snake mains (hi) in Brawl can say.

I know it sucks, but all you can do is hope that he gets buffed. The game has a long life still, so it could happen.

At least Wolf, ICs, and Snake were good characters. And yes, I said in an earlier post that all we can do is hope. Because hope is all we have, right?

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

 

[Xzsmmc]

I just want an explanation as to why they seemingly realized Roy's faults and fixed them, but made Mewtwo worse. I'd really like to hear what was going on in Sakurai and co's heads.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

I just want an explanation as to why they seemingly realized Roy's faults and fixed them, but made Mewtwo worse. I'd really like to hear what was going on in Sakurai and co's heads.

Me too

 

[ShadowKing]

More combo options

 

[Browny]

Me too

I cant believe you missed a chance to type Me(w) too lol

 

[Gnight]

I just want an explanation as to why they seemingly realized Roy's faults and fixed them, but made Mewtwo worse. I'd really like to hear what was going on in Sakurai and co's heads.

Me too

Roy's faults were accidents, Mewtwo's faults, apparently, was not.

 

[Sonicninja115]

IMO Mewtwo needs to at least be mid weight. But buffs would probably be
Remove the ability to jump out of side b, unlikely but here's to hope.
Fix fairs slightly hanky hit box
Give d throw at least some worthy use
And decrease down b's range. If he gets these buffs, he would most likely be a very viable character.

 

[LRodC]

IMO Mewtwo needs to at least be mid weight. But buffs would probably be
Remove the ability to jump out of side b, unlikely but here's to hope.
Fix fairs slightly hanky hit box
Give d throw at least some worthy use
And decrease down b's range. If he gets these buffs, he would most likely be a very viable character.

You mean increase range of down B? I actually think that's fine as is considering the reward of the move. It has more range than any of his other ground moves. Agree with fixing his hitboxes and giving down throw a better use as a combo throw though. Confusion's a tough one to balance. Making it inescapable would be pretty broken, but reducing the frame advantage the opponent has/reducing end lag slightly would probably be a good help for follow-ups. More damage (2-3%) would be a nice buff as well to make it equal to the average throw.

Mewtwo needs more tools and more viable options. His lack of viable follow-ups, OoS options, poor frame data, and badly designed hitboxes are currently hurting Mewtwo much more than his weight is. Rosalina has proven that tons of options and good enough moves can make up for the weight.

Also @ RayNoire , you can use Link too. There's no reason why you can't use multiple characters. Hell, I use a lot of them myself.

 

[Sonicninja115]

You mean increase range of down B? I actually think that's fine as is considering the reward of the move. It has more range than any of his other ground moves. Agree with fixing his hitboxes and giving down throw a better use though. Confusion's a tough one to balance. Making it inescapable would be pretty broken, but reducing the frame advantage the opponent has/reducing end lag slightly would probably be a good help for follow-ups. More damage (2-3%) would be a nice buff as well to make it equal to the average throw.

Oops, I meant lag...

 

[RayNoire]

Also @ RayNoire , you can use Link too. There's no reason why you can't use multiple characters. Hell, I use a lot of them myself.

Nah, I'm a monogamist when it comes to my video game characters.

...But really though, I doubt I'd be able to do anything with Mewtwo if I still played Link. It took a long time to change habits.

 

[Xzsmmc]

That "Everything wrong with Samus" video has gained some decent popularity. It wouldn't be a bad idea for someone to try and make a Mewtwo version that shows him dying to ridiculous things, his terrible hitboxes, Confusion's uselessness etc.

 

[LRodC]

That "Everything wrong with Samus" video has gained some decent popularity. It wouldn't be a bad idea for someone to try and make a Mewtwo version that shows him dying to ridiculous things, his terrible hitboxes, Confusion's uselessness etc.

I would actually do this now since replay uploads are a thing, but I wonder how I would download uploaded videos from YouTube and combine them to a song? Not sure what video editing software I would use. I have a Mac.

If someone were to do this (wouldn't have to be me, and I'd personally rather have someone with a capture card/video editing experience/software do it unless there's no one), what would you want them to cover? So far I can think of:

Dying ridiculously early (I don't care a ton about this, but a lot of people do, and the more potential buffs the better)
Teleport bouncing and initial vulnerability
Shoddy hitboxes and grab
Down throw not having follow-ups
Getting hit out of confusion

Anything else?

 

[Browny]

That "Everything wrong with Samus" video has gained some decent popularity. It wouldn't be a bad idea for someone to try and make a Mewtwo version that shows him dying to ridiculous things, his terrible hitboxes, Confusion's uselessness etc.

Confusion is a top tier move and I wont have anyone suggesting otherwise.

Some characters have a command grab special
Some have a reflector
Some have a mid-air stalling move

To have all 3 of those traits in a single move is incredible.

Seriously people complaining about confusion not comboing is insane.

Lets imagine for a minute that Wario's bite was a reflector that helped him recover and combod. Sounds overpowered? That's because it is and that's what you're after. If confusion combod into anything (which would be f-air) it would easily be the best move in the entire game and polarize many matchups.

 

[LRodC]

Confusion is a top tier move and I wont have anyone suggesting otherwise.

Some characters have a command grab special
Some have a reflector
Some have a mid-air stalling move

To have all 3 of those traits in a single move is incredible.

Seriously people complaining about confusion not comboing is insane.

Lets imagine for a minute that Wario's bite was a reflector that helped him recover and combod. Sounds overpowered? That's because it is and that's what you're after. If confusion combod into anything (which would be f-air) it would easily be the best move in the entire game and polarize many matchups.

I agree with most of this. Confusion doesn't really need to combo, but his command grab option should still be somewhat safe to throw out and it should be rewarding on hit. If you do it versus Sheik, you are almost always going to get punished. If you shield, you'll be grabbed afterwards.

The rest of the move's properties give it good use though.

 

[godogod]

I would actually do this now since replay uploads are a thing, but I wonder how I would download uploaded videos from YouTube and combine them to a song? Not sure what video editing software I would use. I have a Mac.

If someone were to do this (wouldn't have to be me, and I'd personally rather have someone with a capture card/video editing experience/software do it unless there's no one), what would you want them to cover? So far I can think of:

Dying ridiculously early (I don't care a ton about this, but a lot of people do, and the more potential buffs the better)
Teleport bouncing and initial vulnerability
Shoddy hitboxes and grab
Down throw not having follow-ups
Getting hit out of confusion

Anything else?

There's a lot of youtube to mp4/other video format converters out there. Once you have the video, you use a video editing software, add music, and then reupload it back on youtube.

 

[LRodC]

So this is happening now. Anyone have any suggestions for Mewtwo jank that you want covered in the video? Feel free to post or send me any video links that you'd like me to cover or include and suggest music or a title if you wish. I recorded last night:

Teleport bouncing off the stage
Teleport vulnerability on startup
Forward smash blind spot
Back air hitbox
Up air hitbox
Up tilt hitbox
Forward air hitbox
Down throw having no follow ups
Poor grab range
Dying to an uncharged Marth forward smash at 25% (again, this doesn't bother me, but the more the better, right?)
Everything whiffing on crouching characters (should this be included? I feel like it's intentional...)
Getting wrecked by Sheik off stage (done for lols mostly)
Confusion being unsafe as a command grab (should this be included?)

Debating on:

Yoshi escaping forward throw (is this still possible now after the buff?)
N-air's character placement after the move and how it isn't consistent

Anything else that should be covered? (Or not, possibly?)

 

[HakuryuVision]

So this is happening now. Anyone have any suggestions for Mewtwo jank that you want covered in the video? Feel free to post or send me any video links that you'd like me to cover or include and suggest music or a title if you wish. I recorded last night:

Teleport bouncing off the stage
Teleport vulnerability on startup
Forward smash blind spot
Back air hitbox
Up air hitbox
Up tilt hitbox
Forward air hitbox
Down throw having no follow ups
Poor grab range
Dying to an uncharged Marth forward smash at 25% (again, this doesn't bother me, but the more the better, right?)
Everything whiffing on crouching characters (should this be included? I feel like it's intentional...)
Getting wrecked by Sheik off stage (done for lols mostly)
Confusion being unsafe as a command grab (should this be included?)

Debating on:

Yoshi escaping forward throw (is this still possible now after the buff?)
N-air's character placement after the move and how it isn't consistent

Anything else that should be covered? (Or not, possibly?)

This is pretty good.
Especially the first 9 points.

 

[C3CC]

HIS WEIGHT!!!!!!!!! I was killed by Palutena's fully charged Forward Smash near the edge at ONLY 47%!!! What kind of joke is that?! That's humiliating!

Remove the blind spot in his Forward Smash, and give us Melee's Up Throw and Back Throw back.

 

[godogod]

HIS WEIGHT!!!!!!!!! I was killed by Palutena's fully charged Forward Smash near the edge at ONLY 47%!!! What kind of joke is that?! That's humiliating!

Remove the blind spot in his Forward Smash, and give us Melee's Up Throw and Back Throw back.

all the throws were nerfed since melee

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

all the throws were nerfed since melee

Except forward throw.

 

[LRodC]

You can't accurately compare a character in Melee to a character in SSB4. The engines and play styles are just far too different to fairly compare. Almost the entire cast minus a few exceptions (Ganondorf) has been toned down in terms of damage, chain throws were removed, throw power with a few exceptions (Ness) has been toned down, combos were removed or changed, moves act differently, etc. It's not the same game.

Also, here's a video I've been working on to highlight Mewtwo's faults:

http://youtu.be/I2_AIdsqYQw

Everything Wrong With Mewtwo in Smash 4. Let me know what you think.

 

[LRodC]

Accidental double post, please ignore or delete.

 

[godogod]

Except forward throw.

I'm talking about kill throws.

Would I like his back and up throw buffed? I wouldn't want it to be broken. I think 10% sooner is good.

 

[Browny]

You can't accurately compare a character in Melee to a character in SSB4. The engines and play styles are just far too different to fairly compare. Almost the entire cast minus a few exceptions (Ganondorf) has been toned down in terms of damage, chain throws were removed, throw power with a few exceptions (Ness) has been toned down, combos were removed or changed, moves act differently, etc. It's not the same game.

Also, here's a video I've been working on to highlight Mewtwo's faults:

http://youtu.be/I2_AIdsqYQw

Everything Wrong With Mewtwo in Smash 4. Let me know what you think.

While I get why you did this, many of those attacks missed and there isnt much else to it.

fair and uair were the biggest culprits while your grabs also simply missed. I can make the same thing happen to any other character by deliberately missing attacks that look like they should hit.

http://gfycat.com/SizzlingUnitedHairstreakbutterfly

Bair needs a fix and an increase to the grab range would be nice I just think you overdid it a little there.

 

[LRodC]

While I get why you did this, many of those attacks missed and there isnt much else to it.

fair and uair were the biggest culprits while your grabs also simply missed. I can make the same thing happen to any other character by deliberately missing attacks that look like they should hit.

http://gfycat.com/SizzlingUnitedHairstreakbutterfly

Bair needs a fix and an increase to the grab range would be nice I just think you overdid it a little there.

That b-air on Marth is really bad. That's a legitimate thing that should be fixed. Falcon's grab has a small hitbox at well, but he has a strong dash to make up for that, so it's not a huge problem for him as it is for Ganon and Mewtwo. As for Marth's up air, that should be made more accurate as well if anything.

I'm not saying other characters have well designed hitboxes either and most of what I showed was just stuff that could easily be tweaked to look more accurate (or have better hitboxes). B-air is the worst offender, the others are more minor.

 

[RayNoire]

Marth has well known hitbox issues too.

I like the video a lot. I'm glad we finally have documentation of some of this stuff.

I guess the only thing I would add is the whiffing hitbox on the front of Uair (It's SUPER noticeable off a SHAD) and Dsmash not hitting most people that double-grab the ledge. Maybe also editing some portions down like Fair and Uair. Otherwise yeah, it's excellent, and I'd love to share it with the masses.