List of things to buff Mewtwo

[Constadin]

Fsmash still wiff's when someone is running towards you, I did lose 2 stocks yesterday while playing with a friend due to that. Buff's indd helped him but he still has problems to be resolved. Most of all, why they had to take the sb's recoil? It was so funny to breverse it while returning back to stage!

I just do not understand why cloud get's a stats increase when he has reached his limit and not mewtwo with a loaded sb. It would have been so cool and unique to have this advantage including a weight increase midfight, as long as he had a charged sb.

 

[meleebrawler]

So it would be faster and slower at the same time?

Faster startup, worse endlag.

 

[Furret24]

Faster startup, worse endlag.

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

Kinda unrelated, but I would kill to have some moves like that on . His moves have almost no endlag, but take forever to start up (ex. Usmash, which has startup more than double it's endlag).

 

[Aninymouse]

I gotta say, Teleport is SO damn fast on startup that I have a lot of trouble aiming it...

 

[Constadin]

After getting hit multiple times durimg the startup I still think is slow nevertheless.

 

[Aninymouse]

After getting hit multiple times durimg the startup I still think is slow nevertheless.

Please no, if they made Mewtwo's Teleport any faster on startup, I'd have no chance on aiming that thing at all. Bad enough you can SD from Teleport jank.

 

[meleebrawler]

Please no, if they made Mewtwo's Teleport any faster on startup, I'd have no chance on aiming that thing at all. Bad enough you can SD from Teleport jank.

Not to mention any lag at all would kill it...

 

[Nobie]

Mewtwo's Teleport is not a substitute for air dodge.

 

[BarSoapSoup]

At 0%, Down Throw true combos into D-tilt. Not that big of a thing, but it's a nice way to ensure you get at least one shot at a combo without relying on the opponent to make a mistake and trip into your D-tilt.

 

[meleebrawler]

Mewtwo's Teleport is not a substitute for air dodge.

No, but it is a nice mixup when combined with Mewtwo's airspeed and lack of aerial deceleration.

 

[pikazz]

this update we got was all along I wanted on Mewtwo.

sure he cant deal with rush downs but he is faster and can live to his "glass cannon" theme

 

[godogod]

I still don't see him as a glass canon. He doesn't have the power to make up for his weight.

Needs that weight change.. At least get his melee weight back , fix up tilt, teleport, and down throw with less landing lag and I'll be happy.

 

[meleebrawler]

I still don't see him as a glass canon. He doesn't have the power to make up for his weight.

Needs that weight change.. At least get his melee weight back , fix up tilt, teleport, and down throw with less landing lag and I'll be happy.

Name one move that this guy has...

Spoiler

...that hits harder than this guy's hard-hitting stuff (that isn't a super).

Spoiler

Long story short, even if Mewtwo's individual hits aren't the strongest (though his shadow ball and uthrow ARE the strongest of their class), his ability to land them and string them together is what gives him his damage output.

 

[godogod]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. Mewtwo isn't like Shiek and ZSS. Sure he dishes out higher damage per hit, has a pretty good projectile, and a decent amount of combos, but he's incredibly tall, floaty, light,and doesn't have the frame data to make him an effective glass cannon like Shiek and ZSS. Any smash attack can kill him below 80-90%, and him being tall floaty super light character with slow attack speed,doesn't work with the top, unless he has some meat shield+range like rosalina. He will never make it to serious tournaments in the top 3, and still has unfavorable match ups against all the top and upper mid. I personally don't care that he isn't top tier, but something his missing, and I'm not satisfied with how Sakurai handled Mewtwo.

If he had all of his good attributes from melee(same weight value of 85, down throw comboing instead of being useless, shadowball hitboxcharging, same grab hitbox)+the current buffs from 1.1.3, along with up tilt being reliable, he's be pretty darn good. Mid tier at least without a doubt. Whats wrong with asking for that?

So many characters have gotten buffs in without noticable nerfs transitioning from melee/brawl to smash 5, and no one says a thing, but praises them. but suddenly people just settle when he gets buffed with half of the buffs he should have gotten in the first place on launch day.Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, DK, Link, Lucario, and Roy, for example were improved massively. Faster, heavier, stronger, faster attacks+combos They didn't get significant buffs only to be countered by nerfs. Yet Sakurai nerfed Mewtwo in a number of ways in which he was better off without(lower weight, losing combo with d throw, shadowball not having a hitbox while charging, and shorter grab range+unreliable against shorter characters), didn't fix half of his fundamental issues he had since melee(hitbox) and tried buffing him in other ways(slighty higher ko power) at launch, and must have thought he was better or didn't really care d called it a day until 8 months later when people complained.

I don't think his weight nerf (as well as grab, wonkey hitboxes, losing down throw as a a combo)justifies his slight increase in KO power and speed from day 1 through the 1.1.3 patch A What's wrong with asking for a character is that is actually tournament viable against upper mids? Why not have the best of both worlds(everything good from melee and smash 4)? I'm not even asking for anything that unreasonable. I'm not even asking for the Roy treatment. But its sad to see characters like Mewtwo and Dr Mario got shafted when they were released, when

There's no way he wouldn't benefit from getting his melee weight, grab hitbox, down throw having a combo, and fixing up tilt at least. To think that people will settle with Mewtwo now and call it quits, when we potentially one last balance patch, is incredibly disappointing. Nintendo has listened to us. People asked for a faster speed and fixing the wonkey hitboxes, and they mostly delievered on that. But doesn't complete him and completely justify the nerfs he got imo.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. Mewtwo isn't like Shiek and ZSS. Sure he dishes out higher damage per hit, has a pretty good projectile, and a decent amount of combos, but he's incredibly tall, floaty, light,and doesn't have the frame data to make him an effective glass cannon like Shiek and ZSS. Any smash attack can kill him below 80-90%, and him being tall floaty super light character with slow attack speed,doesn't work with the top, unless he has some meat shield+range like rosalina. He will never make it to serious tournaments in the top 3, and still has unfavorable match ups against all the top and upper mid. I personally don't care that he isn't top tier, but something his missing, and I'm not satisfied with how Sakurai handled Mewtwo.

If he had all of his good attributes from melee(same weight value of 85, down throw comboing instead of being useless, shadowball hitboxcharging, same grab hitbox)+the current buffs from 1.1.3, along with up tilt being reliable, he's be pretty darn good. Mid tier at least without a doubt. Whats wrong with asking for that?

So many characters have gotten buffs in without noticable nerfs transitioning from melee/brawl to smash 5, and no one says a thing, but praises them. but suddenly people just settle when he gets buffed with half of the buffs he should have gotten in the first place on launch day.Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, DK, Link, Lucario, and Roy, for example were improved massively. Faster, heavier, stronger, faster attacks+combos They didn't get significant buffs only to be countered by nerfs. Yet Sakurai nerfed Mewtwo in a number of ways in which he was better off without(lower weight, losing combo with d throw, shadowball not having a hitbox while charging, and shorter grab range+unreliable against shorter characters), didn't fix half of his fundamental issues he had since melee(hitbox) and tried buffing him in other ways(slighty higher ko power) at launch, and must have thought he was better or didn't really care d called it a day until 8 months later when people complained.

I don't think his weight nerf (as well as grab, wonkey hitboxes, losing down throw as a a combo)justifies his slight increase in KO power and speed from day 1 through the 1.1.3 patch A What's wrong with asking for a character is that is actually tournament viable against upper mids? Why not have the best of both worlds(everything good from melee and smash 4)? I'm not even asking for anything that unreasonable. I'm not even asking for the Roy treatment. But its sad to see characters like Mewtwo and Dr Mario got shafted when they were released, when

There's no way he wouldn't benefit from getting his melee weight, grab hitbox, down throw having a combo, and fixing up tilt at least. To think that people will settle with Mewtwo now and call it quits, when we potentially one last balance patch, is incredibly disappointing. Nintendo has listened to us. People asked for a faster speed and fixing the wonkey hitboxes, and they mostly delievered on that. But doesn't complete him and completely justify the nerfs he got imo.

Then there is the fact that Mewtwo was horrid in Melee, while being viable in Sm4sh... Oh wait, that's a good thing.

 

[meleebrawler]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. Mewtwo isn't like Shiek and ZSS. Sure he dishes out higher damage per hit, has a pretty good projectile, and a decent amount of combos, but he's incredibly tall, floaty, light,and doesn't have the frame data to make him an effective glass cannon like Shiek and ZSS. Any smash attack can kill him below 80-90%, and him being tall floaty super light character with slow attack speed,doesn't work with the top, unless he has some meat shield+range like rosalina. He will never make it to serious tournaments in the top 3, and still has unfavorable match ups against all the top and upper mid. I personally don't care that he isn't top tier, but something his missing, and I'm not satisfied with how Sakurai handled Mewtwo.

If he had all of his good attributes from melee(same weight value of 85, down throw comboing instead of being useless, shadowball hitboxcharging, same grab hitbox)+the current buffs from 1.1.3, along with up tilt being reliable, he's be pretty darn good. Mid tier at least without a doubt. Whats wrong with asking for that?

So many characters have gotten buffs in without noticable nerfs transitioning from melee/brawl to smash 5, and no one says a thing, but praises them. but suddenly people just settle when he gets buffed with half of the buffs he should have gotten in the first place on launch day.Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, DK, Link, Lucario, and Roy, for example were improved massively. Faster, heavier, stronger, faster attacks+combos They didn't get significant buffs only to be countered by nerfs. Yet Sakurai nerfed Mewtwo in a number of ways in which he was better off without(lower weight, losing combo with d throw, shadowball not having a hitbox while charging, and shorter grab range+unreliable against shorter characters), didn't fix half of his fundamental issues he had since melee(hitbox) and tried buffing him in other ways(slighty higher ko power) at launch, and must have thought he was better or didn't really care d called it a day until 8 months later when people complained.

I don't think his weight nerf (as well as grab, wonkey hitboxes, losing down throw as a a combo)justifies his slight increase in KO power and speed from day 1 through the 1.1.3 patch A What's wrong with asking for a character is that is actually tournament viable against upper mids? Why not have the best of both worlds(everything good from melee and smash 4)? I'm not even asking for anything that unreasonable. I'm not even asking for the Roy treatment. But its sad to see characters like Mewtwo and Dr Mario got shafted when they were released, when

There's no way he wouldn't benefit from getting his melee weight, grab hitbox, down throw having a combo, and fixing up tilt at least. To think that people will settle with Mewtwo now and call it quits, when we potentially one last balance patch, is incredibly disappointing. Nintendo has listened to us. People asked for a faster speed and fixing the wonkey hitboxes, and they mostly delievered on that. But doesn't complete him and completely justify the nerfs he got imo.

So the people who are working with Mewtwo instead of sitting around crying for buffs are defeatists who are wasting their time. Gotcha.

Dr. Mario was meant to be the way he is now even in Melee. They just didn't have time to actually adjust him to fit the role of "slower, stronger Mario", which historically dooms him to be worse than Mario competitively. But lo and behold, he's probably the most distinctive clone in the game now.

Half of the good stuff from Melee Mewtwo simply cannot be transferred to Smash 4: chaingrabs, double-jump-cancel combos, wavedashing are all completely impossible. His lack of grab followups is just standard procedure for someone of his range.

 

[420quickscoper]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. Mewtwo isn't like Shiek and ZSS. Sure he dishes out higher damage per hit, has a pretty good projectile, and a decent amount of combos, but he's incredibly tall, floaty, light,and doesn't have the frame data to make him an effective glass cannon like Shiek and ZSS. Any smash attack can kill him below 80-90%, and him being tall floaty super light character with slow attack speed,doesn't work with the top, unless he has some meat shield+range like rosalina. He will never make it to serious tournaments in the top 3, and still has unfavorable match ups against all the top and upper mid. I personally don't care that he isn't top tier, but something his missing, and I'm not satisfied with how Sakurai handled Mewtwo.

If he had all of his good attributes from melee(same weight value of 85, down throw comboing instead of being useless, shadowball hitboxcharging, same grab hitbox)+the current buffs from 1.1.3, along with up tilt being reliable, he's be pretty darn good. Mid tier at least without a doubt. Whats wrong with asking for that?

So many characters have gotten buffs in without noticable nerfs transitioning from melee/brawl to smash 5, and no one says a thing, but praises them. but suddenly people just settle when he gets buffed with half of the buffs he should have gotten in the first place on launch day.Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, DK, Link, Lucario, and Roy, for example were improved massively. Faster, heavier, stronger, faster attacks+combos They didn't get significant buffs only to be countered by nerfs. Yet Sakurai nerfed Mewtwo in a number of ways in which he was better off without(lower weight, losing combo with d throw, shadowball not having a hitbox while charging, and shorter grab range+unreliable against shorter characters), didn't fix half of his fundamental issues he had since melee(hitbox) and tried buffing him in other ways(slighty higher ko power) at launch, and must have thought he was better or didn't really care d called it a day until 8 months later when people complained.

I don't think his weight nerf (as well as grab, wonkey hitboxes, losing down throw as a a combo)justifies his slight increase in KO power and speed from day 1 through the 1.1.3 patch A What's wrong with asking for a character is that is actually tournament viable against upper mids? Why not have the best of both worlds(everything good from melee and smash 4)? I'm not even asking for anything that unreasonable. I'm not even asking for the Roy treatment. But its sad to see characters like Mewtwo and Dr Mario got shafted when they were released, when

There's no way he wouldn't benefit from getting his melee weight, grab hitbox, down throw having a combo, and fixing up tilt at least. To think that people will settle with Mewtwo now and call it quits, when we potentially one last balance patch, is incredibly disappointing. Nintendo has listened to us. People asked for a faster speed and fixing the wonkey hitboxes, and they mostly delievered on that. But doesn't complete him and completely justify the nerfs he got imo.

I think some people overrate his nerfs and underrate his flaws. There's nothing wrong with getting buffs, but there's a problem with doing what I said above.

Mewtwo's Good:
Amazing Mobility
Many Combos
One of the very besf aerial sets in the game
Good, if not great ground game
Amazing projectile

...and a little bit more.

Mew-two's Bad:
Tall
Very Light
Mediocre OOS
Mediore Frame Data

But his negatives you can make them better. Plus his frame data is better now. He has a few more weaknesses, but Mewtwo isn't as bad as everyone thinks he is.

 

[A-money2121]

- Fixed teleport
- Major weight improvement
- Reduced land lag for aerials (to improve landing and combo game)
- Faster startup for aerials
- Improved grab range


Useful, but I can live without these:
- Hitbox while charging shadow ball
- Improved knock back for up-throw
- Better OOS techniques
- Reduced end lag for dash attack

 

[Sonicninja115]

- Fixed teleport
- Major weight improvement
- Reduced land lag for aerials (to improve landing and combo game)
- Faster startup for aerials
- Improved grab range


Useful, but I can live without these:
- Hitbox while charging shadow ball
- Improved knock back for up-throw
- Better OOS techniques
- Reduced end lag for dash attack

You do know that they reduced Fair's start-up and decreased landing lag on everyone singly aerial right?

Oh, and Teleport can't be fixed. I spent an hour labbing it and I don't have any trouble with it anymore, so I don't see a problem with it.

You do know Mewtwo has the strongest U-throw in the game right?

 

[LRodC]

I feel like this got less productive ever since we got buffed. Either way, let's see what happens in February. It'll be interesting if we get any more buffs after we had pretty much everything improved during this patch or if they'll just leave us alone. Maybe we can use improvements here and there but we have a good base at the moment. I don't think we're necessarily screwed if nothing happens then. I'd rather Jigglypuff or Zelda get some of the major buffs going forward.

 

[Furret24]

You do know that they reduced Fair's start-up and decreased landing lag on everyone singly aerial right?

Just because some issue got buffed a little doesn't mean it's good to go now (ex. Duck Hunt's fsmash). Though in this case, I'd have to agree with you, since the landing lag on nair and the startup on fair are insane and everything else is fine as is.

The only thing I find necessary to do to Mewtwo now is to fix his grab.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Just because some issue got buffed a little doesn't mean it's good to go now (ex. Duck Hunt's fsmash). Though in this case, I'd have to agree with you, since the landing lag on nair and the startup on fair are insane and everything else is fine as is.

The only thing I find necessary to do to Mewtwo now is to fix his grab.

The buff on DH Fsmash was a joke, it did nothing.

I liken it to buffing the power of Ganon's Utilt, it still can't hit a thing.

 

[Aninymouse]

You do know Mewtwo has the strongest U-throw in the game right?

As it should be

 

[godogod]

So the people who are working with Mewtwo instead of sitting around crying for buffs are defeatists who are wasting their time. Gotcha.

Dr. Mario was meant to be the way he is now even in Melee. They just didn't have time to actually adjust him to fit the role of "slower, stronger Mario", which historically dooms him to be worse than Mario competitively. But lo and behold, he's probably the most distinctive clone in the game now.

Half of the good stuff from Melee Mewtwo simply cannot be transferred to Smash 4: chaingrabs, double-jump-cancel combos, wavedashing are all completely impossible. His lack of grab followups is just standard procedure for someone of his range.

Never said that. You're putting words in my mouth. My point was that I'm surprised that people don't think Mewtwo doesn't need any more buffs and are fine the way things are, when he still needs several. We can agree to disagree on what kind of buffs in the end, but if one were to say there's nothing more to be improved on, that's ludicrous.

No Dr Mario got notably nerfed from melee. For no reason, he has a significantly slower ground game(slower dash speed), fall speed, and his vertical recovery sucks even more(no momentum with cape and less vertical super jump punch). His pills don't do as much damage, his forward aerial and forward smash have more difficult sweet spots to land, most of his aerials also do much less damage. The buffs he got don't outweigh the nerfs he received.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Dr._Mario_(SSB4)#Differences_from_Mario
I like using him, and consider him one of my mains because I loved his playstyle in Melee like I did with Mewtwo, but there's no reason to use him over Mario competitively. Compare him to mario, who was actually buffed quite a bit from melee. Mario has a faster ground game, noticeably better recovery, and string combos easier.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Mario_(SSB4)

I never even mentioned Mewtwo's wave dashing, chaingrabbing, or even stronger throws, because I took that all into account that those affected the entire cast. But you're just proving my point that Mewtwo at launch was arguably worse than his melee counterpart.

I think some people overrate his nerfs and underrate his flaws. There's nothing wrong with getting buffs, but there's a problem with doing what I said above.

Mewtwo's Good:
Amazing Mobility
Many Combos
One of the very besf aerial sets in the game
Good, if not great ground game
Amazing projectile

...and a little bit more.

Mew-two's Bad:
Tall
Very Light
Mediocre OOS
Mediore Frame Data

But his negatives you can make them better. Plus his frame data is better now. He has a few more weaknesses, but Mewtwo isn't as bad as everyone thinks he is.

I agree. I don't think he is bad as nearly as some people claim to be. I think he's decent, but competitively he has disadvantages, and there are things that still need to be patched, like up tilt.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Never said that. You're putting words in my mouth. My point was that I'm surprised that people don't think Mewtwo doesn't need any more buffs and are fine the way things are, when he still needs several. We can agree to disagree on what kind of buffs in the end, but to say there's nothing more to be improved on, that's ludicrous.

No Dr Mario got notably nerfed from melee. For no reason, he has a significantly slower ground game(slower dash speed), fall speed, and his vertical recovery sucks even more(no momentum with cape and less vertical super jump punch). His pills don't do as much damage, his forward aerial and forward smash have more difficult sweet spots to land, most of his aerials also do much less damage,
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Dr._Mario_(SSB4)#Differences_from_Mario
I like using him, and consider him one of my mains because I loved him in Melee like I did with Mewtwo, but there's no reason to use him over Mario competitively. Compare him to mario who was actually buffed quite a bit from melee. Mario has a faster ground game, noticeably better recovery, and string combos easier.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Mario_(SSB4)

I never even mentioned Mewtwo's wave dashing, chaingrabbing, or even stronger throws, because I took that all into account that those affected the entire cast. But you're just proving my point that Mewtwo at launch was arguably worse than his melee counterpart.

Mewtwo at launch, is still higher then Melee... Isn't h the third worst? At least in this game he has been considered bottom ten...

 

[A-money2121]

You do know that they reduced Fair's start-up and decreased landing lag on everyone singly aerial right?

Oh, and Teleport can't be fixed. I spent an hour labbing it and I don't have any trouble with it anymore, so I don't see a problem with it.

You do know Mewtwo has the strongest U-throw in the game right?

1. Nope, must of missed that. Sorry.
Luckily, that marks down one necessary change.

2. Ok

3. *Charizard
Anyways, up-throw was slightly nerfed in Mewtwo's transition from Melee to Smash 4. I know that it's powerful, so that's why it'd be a "nice-to-have" feature rather than a necessary one.

 

[LRodC]

1. Nope, must of missed that. Sorry.
Luckily, that marks down one necessary change.

2. Ok

3. *Charizard
Anyways, up-throw was slightly nerfed in Mewtwo's transition from Melee to Smash 4. I know that it's powerful, so that's why it'd be a "nice-to-have" feature rather than a necessary one.

Just for clarification, Charizard's up throw does have the most knockback without DI, but it is way more negatively affected by optimal DI than Mewtwo's, making it KO later than Mewtwo's in most scenarios.

 

[A-money2121]

Just for clarification, Charizard's up throw does have the most knockback without DI, but it is way more negatively affected by optimal DI than Mewtwo's, making it KO later than Mewtwo's in most scenarios.

I don't know what DI or optimal DI means..

 

[godogod]

I think some people overrate his nerfs and underrate his flaws. There's nothing wrong with getting buffs, but there's a problem with doing what I said above.

Mewtwo's Good:
Amazing Mobility
Many Combos
One of the very besf aerial sets in the game
Good, if not great ground game
Amazing projectile

...and a little bit more.

Mew-two's Bad:
Tall
Very Light
Mediocre OOS
Mediore Frame Data

But his negatives you can make them better. Plus his frame data is better now. He has a few more weaknesses, but Mewtwo isn't as bad as everyone thinks he is.

I agree. I don't think he is bad as nearly as some people claim to be. I think he's decent, but competitively he has disadvantages, and there are things that still need to be patched, like up tilt.

Mewtwo at launch, is still higher then Melee... Isn't h the third worst? At least in this game he has been considered bottom ten...

There's more than twice as many characters to take into account.

 

[godogod]

I don't know what DI or optimal DI means..

Directional influence. When you get hit, you can control where you get launched with the control stick, adding some resistance, which helps you escape combos and live at higher percentages than usual.

 

[420quickscoper]

I agree. I don't think he is bad as nearly as some people claim to be. I think he's decent, but competitively he has disadvantages, and there are things that still need to be patched, like up tilt.

There's more than twice as many characters to take into account.

There are still a lot of characters that Mewtwo is better than, though.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

No Dr Mario got notably nerfed from melee. For no reason, he has a significantly slower ground game(slower dash speed), fall speed, and his vertical recovery sucks even more(no momentum with cape and less vertical super jump punch). His pills don't do as much damage, his forward aerial and forward smash have more difficult sweet spots to land, most of his aerials also do much less damage. The buffs he got don't outweigh the nerfs he received.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Dr._Mario_(SSB4)#Differences_from_Mario
I like using him, and consider him one of my mains because I loved his playstyle in Melee like I did with Mewtwo, but there's no reason to use him over Mario competitively. Compare him to mario, who was actually buffed quite a bit from melee. Mario has a faster ground game, noticeably better recovery, and string combos easier.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Mario_(SSB4)

1. Don't use the wiki. Some of the stuff there is written poorly and is misleading or wrong. Go to the forums and ask people who know about the character.
2. No, his fall speed is the same as Mario's. Weight is the same too.
3. This is a grossly exaggerated problem. If Mario's Sm4sh cape was ANY good, I would be a bit concerned but even then, not having a stall allows him to cape opponents more easily and allows him to snap the ledge more smoothly.
4. This just sounds like nonsense. It's not as if the hitboxes from Melee became smaller. And even then, forward smash and forward air are moves that you should seldom use as a Mario/Doc player. So it doesn't matter that much.
5. Do much less damage than whose aerials? Mario's? Melee Doc's? If it's the former, that is certainly not true. Doc's aerials generally deal more damage than Mario's.
6. Aside from his ability to combo fast fallers harder, kill more easily, and edge-guard more efficiently with Down-B, Dair, reverse Up-B, etc? Yeah man, way worse than Mario. -_-
7. Really? I don't see that. Fireballs are way worse in this game, Cape doesn't stall, and strictly speaking, his combo game is worse than Melee. And what better ground game?
8. Mario's combo game only works at mid-high percentages and is pretty bad at low percents. He's relatively better than most characters, but to say that he's better than his Melee counterpart is false.

Mewtwo at launch, is still higher then Melee... Isn't h the third worst? At least in this game he has been considered bottom ten...

Bottom 6, but yes, he is relatively better in this game than he was in Melee. He was somewhat underrated in that game, but Taj contributed to his rise in the official tier lists. Having a combo game, amazing recovery, and strong throws helps.

 

[meleebrawler]

1. Don't use the wiki. Some of the stuff there is written poorly and is misleading or wrong. Go to the forums and ask people who know about the character.
2. No, his fall speed is the same as Mario's. Weight is the same too.
3. This is a grossly exaggerated problem. If Mario's Sm4sh cape was ANY good, I would be a bit concerned but even then, not having a stall allows him to cape opponents more easily and allows him to snap the ledge more smoothly.
4. This just sounds like nonsense. It's not as if the hitboxes from Melee became smaller. And even then, forward smash and forward air are moves that you should seldom use as a Mario/Doc player. So it doesn't matter that much.
5. Do much less damage than whose aerials? Mario's? Melee Doc's? If it's the former, that is certainly not true. Doc's aerials generally deal more damage than Mario's.
6. Aside from his ability to combo fast fallers harder, kill more easily, and edge-guard more efficiently with Down-B, Dair, reverse Up-B, etc? Yeah man, way worse than Mario. -_-
7. Really? I don't see that. Fireballs are way worse in this game, Cape doesn't stall, and strictly speaking, his combo game is worse than Melee. And what better ground game?
8. Mario's combo game only works at mid-high percentages and is pretty bad at low percents. He's relatively better than most characters, but to say that he's better than his Melee counterpart is false.



Bottom 6, but yes, he is relatively better in this game than he was in Melee. He was somewhat underrated in that game, but Taj contributed to his rise in the official tier lists. Having a combo game, amazing recovery, and strong throws helps.

In general it's just silly to try and compare a Melee character to a Smash 4 character. Half the reason for the wiki's belief that Mewtwo was nerfed is because he can't do Melee-specific stuff... while disregarding that neither can anyone else. And that damage nerfs are fairly universal in Smash 4.

Also consider that airdodging basically wasn't a thing in Melee, which can make aerials like Doc fair "seem" better/easier to land.

But, you know, for some people solo viability is all that matters.

 

[Aninymouse]

I would argue that Smash 4 Mewtwo, as-is, is far better than Melee Mewtwo. Even though Melee Mewtwo wasn't terrible (bottom of mid tier I believe, or top of low tier), Smash 4 Mewtwo has a lot going for him. There are a couple changes I'd like to see:

I'd like to have the Shadow Ball charging hitbox back, for one.

I'd like up tilt and uair's hitboxes to be remade a bit, to match the animation.

I'd like the end lag on down throw reduced.

A tad more weight, if Sakurai is feeling generous...

I'd like him to do his Japanese victory quotes ;_;

 

[Browny]

I recently made a lot of changes to the wiki and cut down all the needless crap on there.

Seriously there was like 5 or so different instances in the attributes section complaining that Mewtwo has something better in melee.

You know who else was better in melee? Sheik. Don't see anyone complaining about that. bleh

 

[godogod]

WTF.. His smash wiki page now says his air speed has increased from the 1.1.3. patch.

 

[Sonicninja115]

WTF.. His smash wiki page now says his air speed has increased from the 1.1.3. patch.

There was someone talking about that.... I think his reasoning was that because he was faster, he should be faster in the air, the only thing that might be changed is acceleration.

 

[godogod]

I thought Mewtwo was always third place in air speed. If he was 1.10 he'd be below Roy. That's only ground speed that we know was changed. Wonder how that would affect air speed.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I thought Mewtwo was always third place in air speed. If he was 1.10 he'd be below Roy. That's only ground speed that we know was changed. Wonder how that would affect air speed.

Unless they changed the max airspeed, then Mewtwo wouldn't go any faster. I think what that person might be thinking of is the fact that since Mewtwo runs faster, he starts faster in the air. IIRC, Mewtwo has amazing airspeed, but horrid acceleration. Thus, because he goes faster on the ground, when he jumps out of run, he might start in the air at a higher speed then before, momentum traveling into the air.

 

[godogod]

if Mewtwo was an actual glass canon..

-forward tilt's animation is sped up 2.0x
-up tilt's animation is sped up 1.5x and given the hitbox treatment like up and back air from patch 1.1.3.
-all smash attack's ending lag reduced by 3-4 frames
-up air sped up by 1.5x
-back air sped up by 1.5x
-down throw's ending lag reduced by 3 frames to allow follow ups
-up smash's initial up smash hitbox size from release day returned
-dash grab back to active on 8th frame and grab hitbox size returned back to melee range
-up throw kills 10-15% earlier
-gains back melee landing hitbox for neutral air
-melee weight