List of moves that easily beat Metaknight's neutral B (no longer updating)

[Rhyfelwyr]

People are free to copy/edit/place this material wherever for whatever reasons without contacting me.

Tornado's Hitbox



The red area represents the hitbox

As you can see from the diagram, (pardon the bad artwork) Metaknight is completely vulnerable from above. I've tested, and every single character's D-air can knock Metaknight from above! With Wolf, Ness, Snake, Ike, Diddy, Ivy, and Charzard, it's better to use their N-air instead. Special moves that go downward can also be used in this fashion.

If Metaknight tries to juggle you from below with the tornado, don't airdodge! Do a D-air!

Attacks That Out Prioritize the Tornado

This isn't every move that wins against MK's B. I only listed the ones that are the most useful to the character.

Use these moves when Metaknight comes at you from the side on the ground. If you have this move, don't shield, attack!

NOTE: Apparently Metaknight's Tornado GAINS priority if you mash the B button, and becomes weak again towards the end. This list is tested against the middle timing of the tornado, where it's strongest. Bolded attacks are the ones that are extremely useful.

Bowser – F-tilt
Captain Falcon – Down-B
Charzard – F-tilt, F-smash
Diddy Kong – F-tilt
Donkey Kong – F-smash, F-tilt
Falco – B, down-B
Fox – F-smash
Game & Watch – Dash attack, D-smash
Ganondorf – Down-B, F-smash
Ice Climbers – Down-B
Ike – F-air, down-B
Ivysaur – F-smash
Jigglypuff – Side-B
King Dedede – D-smash
Kirby – F-smash
Link – Down-B, up-B, F-smash
Lucario – Down-B, B charged
Lucas – F-smash, side-B
Luigi – Nothing
Mario – D-air
Marth – F-smash, forward-B, down-B
Metaknight – D-smash, F/B-air
Ness – F-smash, F-air, side-B
Peach – B, F-tilt, F-air
Pikachu – F-smash
Pikmin & Olimar – Up-B
Pit – F-tilt, D-smash
Rob – B, N-air
Samus – Z-air, Super Missile
Sheik – B, N-air
Snake – D-tilt, B
Sonic – F-smash
Squirtle – Side-B, F-smash
Toon Link – Down-B, up-B
Wario – F-tilt, F-smash
Wolf – B
Yoshi – Up-B
Zelda – Side-B (mid-distance)
Zero Suit Samus – N-air

 

[Ultimatum479]

I think Oli's Utilt and Nair are identical, so that should work too.

Yeah, the Tornado isn't cheap at all. ^_^

Also, I think a better Tornado counter for MK is the Drill Rush, if I remember correctly. (I'm in the DR and don't have a Wii with me.)

 

[lonelytraveler8]

Are you sure Bowser's Fire Breath stops it? From what I understand, Mach Tornado goes right through it. I may just be remembering wrong, though.

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

I'm pretty sure that what happens is the first flame will cancel the tornado, and the rest can get through. I did a lot of tests, so maybe I'm confusing it with Charzard's flamethrower, which I know works.

I think Oli's Utilt and Nair are identical, so that should work too.

Yeah, the Tornado isn't cheap at all. ^_^

Also, I think a better Tornado counter for MK is the Drill Rush, if I remember correctly. (I'm in the DR and don't have a Wii with me.)

Thanks for responding, it was a little disheartening to see 2-hours of research get ignored. Meanwhile people continued to post in the other thread saying, "the tornado is hax."

If a move isn't on the list, it's for one of three reasons.

1. The move has less priority then the tornado, and MK hits you.
2. The move has equal priority, making it so that both you and MK don't gain anything.
3. The move has superior priority, but it's range means that MK can still hit you if not done right.

The U-tilt may have fallen under #3. Olimar's N-air works great since you can jump into the tornado with it.

The Drill Rush does beat the Tornado, but when I used it the enemy MK would bounce out of the attack without doing anything.

 

[piefayth]

Lucas - Side special.

 

[krlos F.]

oh thanx for the info!! pretty useful! xD

 

[Ultimatum479]

Don't worry about it. That always happens. If there's a thread on the topic, everyone flocks to it even if newer threads have way more detailed information.

As mentioned, I don't have my Wii right now to test. Whaddaya mean about the Drill Rush not being effective?

 

[Browny]

Sonic's b-air goes through mach tornado

May be a case for #3 though

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

My list changed dramatically now. You can see the reason for it in the first post. Drill Rush doesn't even work against it now with this new info, and neither do the flame breaths.

 

[Ultimatum479]

Yeah, it does gain priority when you spam B, but that of course makes MK very vulnerable on his way down. I thought you were taking that into account (again, won't have Wii access until later tonight). The Drill Rush should still beat it, from my experience, if you aim at the right angle. Meh, I'll post again or edit this post later tonight.

 

[Chrono Centaur]

so uhh

Bowser's ftilt ***** again.

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

I diagram the Hitbox of the tornado. The top of Metaknight is completely open to attacks! Any character can take advantage of this!

 

[Browny]

lucarios aura sphere out-prioritses MT provided its charged anything more than normal. i mean like, if you dont charge it at all, it does nothing. but if you charge it for even 1/10th of a second, it does.

 

[smasher32]

I do recall playing Wario against my friend's annoying MK and getting through his neutral B with an F-tilt. This might require some testing, but why not contribute to the Wario players out there .

 

[LoyalSoldier]

I think Oli's Utilt and Nair are identical, so that should work too.

Yeah, the Tornado isn't cheap at all. ^_^

Also, I think a better Tornado counter for MK is the Drill Rush, if I remember correctly. (I'm in the DR and don't have a Wii with me.)

As metaknight you can easily beat a tornado by using a Dair at the apex of your short hop.

 

[Blad01]

Thanks for this list, i stopped thinking that the Tornado was cheap when i discover the laser counter.

But i wonder if Falco's shine can break out the Tornado ?

 

[Metal_Dave]

Thanks for this list, i stopped thinking that the Tornado was cheap when i discover the laser counter.

But i wonder if Falco's shine can break out the Tornado ?

From what I remember since my friend plays a falco it doesn't work. I maybe wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's no good.

 

[thesage]

Pk fire outprioritizes it =(

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

Pk fire outprioritizes it =(

I don't know why I forgot to mention those. They'll be added now.

From what I remember since my friend plays a falco it doesn't work. I maybe wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's no good.

The shine does work, I just neglected to have it since the blaster works so well. But the shine does come out a bit quicker, I'll add it to the list.

lucarios aura sphere out-prioritses MT provided its charged anything more than normal. i mean like, if you dont charge it at all, it does nothing. but if you charge it for even 1/10th of a second, it does.

The tornado gains priority the longer you mash B. You have to charge sphere a lot more depending on when you use it.

 

[happypants]

what can G&W do vs the whorenado of doom?

i just played a guy online and the only move that beat the whorenado was jumping down A which is hella risky.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

for zelda her f-smash,nair, and Naryu's love can stop it. Also i here at the right angle u-smash can stop it. I have not tested the up-smash for myself yet
I have yet to be able to stop it with her side B in my testing (my testing is not complete yet so when i get better data i will try to remeber to post it here)

I hope this helps your list

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

Nayru's love can only win if you get inside MK during the invincibility frames. N-air doesn't outprioritize the tornado, it can work like everyone's D-air where you use it above MK where he doesn't have a hitbox. The up-smash is really risky to use, and MK doesn't do neutral B above you too often.

F-smash I think can work, but it requires a very specific distance, otherwise you get hit.

Din's fire has worked every time I use it. Maybe the difference is if you activate the explosion outside or inside of the tornado.


I've updated the list for G&W, Fox, Jigglypuff, Luigi, Olimar, and Wario since I had to take down the moves I did have for them since discovering the tornado's priority gain.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

well like i said i am still far from done doing my tested and the way you say the nair works makes sense in fact do you mind if i copy and paste your comment onto a thread in the zelda boards? i will of course give you credit for it.

 

[Wyvern]

Link's forward smash does NOT cut through the tornado. Not the first hit, anyway. I was playing (well, losing) against a Meta Knight recently who kept tormenting me mercilessly with the tornado. Finally, there came a point where he started too far away from me and I could actually get an attack into it, so I forward smashed. I scored a direct hit, and the sword clashed off the tornado and he hit me anyway.

It was pretty irritating.

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

well like i said i am still far from done doing my tested and the way you say the nair works makes sense in fact do you mind if i copy and paste your comment onto a thread in the zelda boards? i will of course give you credit for it.

I posted my findings here for everyone to hear about it. You can do whatever you want with the information.

Link's forward smash does NOT cut through the tornado. Not the first hit, anyway. I was playing (well, losing) against a Meta Knight recently who kept tormenting me mercilessly with the tornado. Finally, there came a point where he started too far away from me and I could actually get an attack into it, so I forward smashed. I scored a direct hit, and the sword clashed off the tornado and he hit me anyway.

It was pretty irritating.

Hmm, I'll test this again, but the spin attack still works right?

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i posted it in keeping it classy thread thanks for the info i am sure it will be very helpful

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

I did some more real testing, here's what I've found.

Link's F-smash DOES work. My guess, Wyvern, is that you used the f-smash at a distance where the sword overlapped the hitbox of the tornado, but it didn't reach the hurtbox of Metaknight.

Nayru's Love doesn't work against the tornado. NAGACE, I think you made the same mistake I made when I first started testing. The tornado has more priority if you rapidly press the B button. If he only presses it once, or when he stops rapidly pressing B, then it will work.

The up-smash suffers the exact same case as Nayru's Love.

I found that Din's fire is like the tornado. The further away you release the spell, the bigger the explosion, and the greater the priority. Using Din's fire at about the range of a roll usually always works. You can make din's fire work from closer up by releasing the explosing above Metaknight.

 

[Ultimatum479]

Rhyfelwyr, your last point is important: Din's Fire works _above_ MetaKnight. The thing is that, if you hit at an angle that's not in his hitbox (which you described in the first post), you not only hit him without having to worry about being attacked back but also aren't fighting his priority. Therefore, Nayru's Love _does_ work if you land inside AND SLIGHTLY ABOVE with the invicibility frames.

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

When I say "against the tornado," I mean it doesn't out prioritize it. Any attack with a slight downward hit box can hit Metaknight from above. I'm not pointing out that you should not use nayru's love against the tornado at all, I'm saying it doesn't work head on.

The priority list is only of attacks that work the best for a character against the tornado from the side or below. The hitbox diagram shows that any attack can work from above. There are too many of those kinds of attacks, therefore I'm not going to try listing them. People can use this thread to discuss what attacks they like to use from above.

Nayru's love works from above, that's good and I encourage to use it that way, but the idea brought up was if it out prioritized it.

 

[Blood_Hawk]

Lucario's F-smash goes through it every time. Not sure if you have tested this or not.

 

[Sino]

Are that all the weaknesses for the tornado. If a TL player does a dair he always land on my tornado and bounces off :}

 

[DanGR]

thanks for making this. I posted for support!

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I did some more real testing, here's what I've found.

Link's F-smash DOES work. My guess, Wyvern, is that you used the f-smash at a distance where the sword overlapped the hitbox of the tornado, but it didn't reach the hurtbox of Metaknight.

Nayru's Love doesn't work against the tornado. NAGACE, I think you made the same mistake I made when I first started testing. The tornado has more priority if you rapidly press the B button. If he only presses it once, or when he stops rapidly pressing B, then it will work.

The up-smash suffers the exact same case as Nayru's Love.

I found that Din's fire is like the tornado. The further away you release the spell, the bigger the explosion, and the greater the priority. Using Din's fire at about the range of a roll usually always works. You can make din's fire work from closer up by releasing the explosing above Metaknight.

yea the person i had help me test it does not own the game and was not tapping b since he did not know too. Also since the f-smash works very well for zelda against the tornado and might be her only good close option maybe you should add that to the zelda part

Also thanks for testing this stuff out it is very helpful

 

[_Riot_]

DK's d-smash destroys it due to the angle he throws down his arms.

 

[GenG]

Olimar can do grabs on the tornado when they are at the same level.

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

yea the person i had help me test it does not own the game and was not tapping b since he did not know too. Also since the f-smash works very well for zelda against the tornado and might be her only good close option maybe you should add that to the zelda part

Also thanks for testing this stuff out it is very helpful

You're welcome.

I suppose the F-smash could be worth mentioning, but how much easier is it to short hop N-air/D-air?

DK's d-smash destroys it due to the angle he throws down his arms.

That's not technically out prioritizing, but depending on how easy it is I could add it. I'll try it out.

Olimar can do grabs on the tornado when they are at the same level.

Interesting, I'll try this too.

 

[Eldiran]

I'd love for all this to be true, but I've definitely used Falco's D-air straight into a Mach Tornado to no avail. Am I doing it wrong?

 

[kirbstir]

Where's marth's forward b and meta's fair/bair?

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

I had to take off Pit's N-air. Turns out it didn't work.

I'd love for all this to be true, but I've definitely used Falco's D-air straight into a Mach Tornado to no avail. Am I doing it wrong?

Because Falco's D-air is an extended hitbox, you have be directly over MK. If you miss by even a little, you'll get caught in the tornado. Why are you doing the D-air anyway? You have the blaster and shine.

Where's marth's forward b and meta's fair/bair?

Added.

 

[Namiel]

Does Pit have any good options in the air? This is where I always get caught by the tornado, but usually not over him to use the d-air unfortunately. The best I can usually manage is to just keep MK off of me with the mirror...