~| List of every character's no/nearly no lag aerials |~

[ZodiakLucien]

I spent some time to find out which characters aerials have little to and which don't. This is not aerials that finish in a short hop, the aerials were tested when the character lands during the aerial . If you have any disputes about this list tell me which specifically and I will retest them. For the most part though this list should be correct.

*Yes means it cancels and has no/nearly no lag, no means it doesnt cancel and has lag.

Mario
-Uair: yes
-Nair: no (Little lag)
-Fair: no
-Bair: yes
-Dair: no (When you hit the ground he goes to the last hit of his spin)

Donkey Kong
-Uair: no
-Nair: no (Little lag)
-Fair: no
-Bair: no
-Dair: no

Link
-Uair: no
-Nair: yes
-Fair: yes
-Bair: yes
-Dair: no

Samus
-Uair: yes
-Nair: yes
-Fair: yes
-Bair: yes
-Dair: yes (Does not come out fully when falling through most platforms though)

Zero Suit Samus
-Uair: yes
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no (little lag )
-Bair: yes
-Dair: no

Kirby
-Uair: yes
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no (little lag)
-Bair: yes
-Dair: no (little lag)

Fox
-Uair: no
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no
-Bair: no
-Dair: no (little lag)

Pikachu
-Uair: no
-Nair: no
-Fair: no
-Bair: no
-Dair: no

Marth
-Uair: yes
-Nair: yes
-Fair: yes
-Bair: no
-Dair: no

Mr.Game and Watch
-Uair: yes
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no
-Bair: no (little lag)
-Dair: no (little lag)

Luigi
-Uair: yes
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no
-Bair: yes
-Dair: yes

Diddy
-Uair: no
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no
-Bair: yes
-Dair: no

Zelda
-Uair: no
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no
-Bair: no
-Dair: no

Sheik
-Uair: no
-Nair: yes
-Fair: yes
-Bair: yes
-Dair: no

Pit
-Uair: no
-Nair: no
-Fair: no (little lag)
-Bair: no (little lag)
-Dair: no

Metaknight
-Uair: yes
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no
-Bair: yes and no (It autocancels if you land after only the first hit, if you land after the 2nd or third hit it does not autocancel)
-Dair: yes

Falco
-Uair: no (little lag)
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no
-Bair: yes
-Dair: yes

Charizard
-Uair: no (little lag)
-Nair: no
-Fair: no
-Bair: no
-Dair: no

Ivysaur
-Uair: no
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no
-Bair: yes
-Dair: no

Squirtle
-Uair: no
-Nair: yes
-Fair: yes
-Bair: yes
-Dair: no

Ike
-Uair: no
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no
-Bair: no
-Dair: no

Snake
-Uair: no
-Nair: no
-Fair: no
-Bair: no
-Dair: no

Peach
-Uair: yes
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no
-Bair: yes
-Dair: yes

Yoshi
-Uair: yes
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no (little lag)
-Bair: yes
-Dair: no

Ganondorf
-Uair: no
-Nair: no
-Fair: no
-Bair: no
-Dair: no

Ice Climbers
-Uair: no
-Nair: no
-Fair: no
-Bair: yes
-Dair: no

Dedede
-Uair: no (little lag)
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no
-Bair: no
-Dair: no

Wolf
-Uair: yes
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no
-Bair: yes
-Dair: no

Lucario
-Uair: no
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no
-Bair: no
-Dair: N/A (it is almost impossible to hit the ground doing this move as it stops all momentum)

Ness
-Uair: yes
-Nair: no (little lag)
-Fair: yes
-Bair: yes
-Dair: no

Sonic
-Uair: no
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no
-Bair: yes
-Dair: no

Bowser
-Uair: no
-Nair: no (little lag)
-Fair: no
-Bair: no
-Dair: no

Wario
-Uair: yes
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no (little lag)
-Bair: no
-Dair: no

Toon Link
-Uair: no
-Nair: no
-Fair: no
-Bair: yes
-Dair: no

Robot
-Uair: no
-Nair: no (little lag)
-Fair: yes
-Bair: yes
-Dair: no

Olimar
-Uair: no
-Nair: no (little lag)
-Fair: no
-Bair: no
-Dair: no

Captain Falcon
-Uair: yes
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no
-Bair: no
-Dair: no

Jigglypuff
-Uair: no
-Nair: no
-Fair: no
-Bair: no
-Dair: no

Lucas
-Uair: yes
-Nair: yes
-Fair: yes
-Bair: no
-Dair: no

 

[Chaosblade77]

Awesome, thanks for the hard work on this. That must have taken a while. I'm sure it will be worth it for everyone in the end.

 

[DeuceBlade]

Great effort, thanks for the list.

 

[montyalbo]

awesome list ZodiakLucien

thanks

 

[NitrousFlare]

Good thread.

:D

 

[Foxy]

this was needed.

if this is done well and kept up it should get a sticky.

 

[Lipucd]

This is the kind of stuff I look forward too! Thanks for all this info! =D

 

[MookieRah]

Wait, I was under the impression that auto-canceling was something completely different. It has to do with certain laggy attacks that if you landed it at certain frames during the beginning and/or end of the attack it will cancel all lag. I saw a video of a ganon doing this with bair on accident and suffered no lag. Someone also explained to me that Peach's attacks were being "auto-canceled" which is why I thought she still had float canceling.

I'm not trying to diss the TC, as I myself am a little confused on what auto-canceling is and how it works as well, but I'm sure this isn't what it is. This is; however, a nice list of attacks that have virtually no lag and it is useful to the community.

 

[Zek]

This isn't what autocancel means, this is just a list of aerials with low lag. Which is useful but not the same thing at all.

 

[PHIL07]

GOOD ****!lol

 

[Doc Chronic]

regardless of the semantics of the word autocancel, this is still interesting info, nice work

 

[ZodiakLucien]

I was under the impression it was. Nearly everyone in my area uses it to that definition including DBR. For instance in melee, if you fastfall and short hop DKs uair it autocancels so theres no lag. I decided not to change the topic until its truely settled though.

 

[WastingPenguins]

Great list but one correction: Ganon's dair CAN be autocanceled if you're quick about it. There was one video where the Ganon player was hopping around dair'ing like mad but I can't find it. You can see it in this video around 7:45. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjlXcDRL9G0

Edit: Actually maybe that isn't really autocanceling...

 

[Zevox]

Wait, I was under the impression that auto-canceling was something completely different. It has to do with certain laggy attacks that if you landed it at certain frames during the beginning and/or end of the attack it will cancel all lag. I saw a video of a ganon doing this with bair on accident and suffered no lag. Someone also explained to me that Peach's attacks were being "auto-canceled" which is why I thought she still had float canceling.

I'm not trying to diss the TC, as I myself am a little confused on what auto-canceling is and how it works as well, but I'm sure this isn't what it is. This is; however, a nice list of attacks that have virtually no lag and it is useful to the community.

I believe you're right. I've seen numerous videos where Sonic was able to auto-cancel his dair by doing it from specific heights so it was just ending when he landed (ironically, it seems a short hop + spring jump can set this up perfectly).

Zevox

 

[Greenpoe]

I'm a bit confused. What if you're, say, Sheik and use her uair (has landing lag) followed by a fair (no landing lag) would that mean that you don't have landing lag?

 

[CrazyShaman]

Nice job, could come in handy.

 

[ZodiakLucien]

I'm a bit confused. What if you're, say, Sheik and use her uair (has landing lag) followed by a fair (no landing lag) would that mean that you don't have landing lag?

during the uair hit the ground or a platform. Then immediately try to jab or fall through the platform to do another aerial. The uair takes a split second to get the jab through or go through the platform while the fair is instantaneous.

 

[Chaosblade77]

I'm a bit confused. What if you're, say, Sheik and use her uair (has landing lag) followed by a fair (no landing lag) would that mean that you don't have landing lag?

All that would matter would be the attack you did while you were landing. If you did the uair followed by the fair and landed in the middle of the fair animation, there would be no/little lag, according to this.

 

[limitbreak]

This could turn out to be pretty usefull.

 

[K Balls]

i understand this lucien good **** bro!

 

[hotgarbage]

good work! But I'd like to point this out:

Peach
-Uair: yes
-Nair: yes
-Fair: no
-Bair: yes
-Dair: yes

Perhaps this works like MookieRah said, and it only gets autocancled if you land on certain frames?

 

[ZodiakLucien]

thats odd, when I tested the fair she had noticable lag, all those aerials are without floatcancelling though. I'll try testing it with both though. I will test it in a little bit, as right now I dont feel like playing brawl after doing this list. I made note of that in the list though. I didnt plan to get it perfectly right the first time.

 

[Magus420]

Yeah, this isn't autocancelling. Autocancelling is the windows before/after an attack hits where if you land during this time you get the normal landing animation instead of the attack's landlag animation (as if you landed without doing an attack at all).


For example, Peach's f-air in Brawl will autocancel if you land at pretty much any point that isn't mid-swing...

Also, there is no float cancelling in Brawl.


(The full length of the f-air normally, and then another one landing before the swing and is autocancelled)

(Landing just after the swing ends and is autocancelled)

(Landing mid-swing and getting the attack's lag)

 

[ZodiakLucien]

ah that makes sense magus, I am just going to put no lag aerials to help prevent confusion.

 

[Sliq]

Jigglypuff
-Uair: no
-Nair: no
-Fair: no
-Bair: no
-Dair: no

Great. (10 characters)

 

[hotgarbage]

Ah ok. That makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up Magus420.

 

[verditude]

Jiggs is floaty enough that she can probably connect with the end of an aerial and land after it ends. (not a jiggs expert, plz don't flame me if my jiggs knowledge is not up to par)
BTW, was Jiggs' shffl game that big in Melee? Most Jiggs I played stayed in the air most all the time.

 

[Sliq]

Jiggs is floaty enough that she can probably connect with the end of an aerial and land after it ends. (not a jiggs expert, plz don't flame me if my jiggs knowledge is not up to par)
BTW, was Jiggs' shffl game that big in Melee? Most Jiggs I played stayed in the air most all the time.

The thing is, now EVERYONE is floaty and EVERYONE has excellent air control. ALL the characters in Brawl move like Jiggs did in Melee, so she is no longer unique. Basically, every character is now a better version of Jiggs.

 

[usea]

The thing is, now EVERYONE is floaty and EVERYONE has excellent air control. ALL the characters in Brawl move like Jiggs did in Melee, so she is no longer unique. Basically, every character is now a better version of Jiggs.

That's not true at all.

 

[gangstajuice656]

WOW long thread!

 

[Sliq]

That's not true at all.

Why isn't it true? Don't just state an unsupported opinion then bow out like you've just blown everyone's mind with your crafty one liner.

 

[darkatma]

Nice list lucien, this will definitely be useful, especially if it's completely accurate.
How well do the no-lag moves do against a shield though? Is it still only 4 frames landlag for those moves, and can you follow up before they shield grab/release shield and attack?


@ sliq
jiggs seems to be obsolete anyways =[
Her rest can't even pop a shield (it takes about 1/3rd of their shield away), and she's ultra floaty, no "no lag" moves, and oh yea, rest still has the same mini hitbox, now with barely any combos into it =[

That and lack of priority on everything

 

[squarez]

Nice list, looks like samus pwns.

 

[Magus420]

Speaking of rest, the one match I tried using Jiggs I landed an u-air->u-tilt->rest combo on a Sheik with like 5-10 damage or something, and it didn't even send them far enough to leave the screen into the magnifier. I then proceeded to get fully charged u-smashed and die =P

I then selected a different character.

 

[usea]

Why isn't it true? Don't just state an unsupported opinion then bow out like you've just blown everyone's mind with your crafty one liner.

I only needed one line to state a fact. Your unsupported claims occupied more than one line, but that doesn't make them superior. If you would line a line-by-line dissection, then I will give you one:

The thing is, now EVERYONE is floaty

floaty is relative. Compared to melee, sure most characters are floaty. However, not all characters in brawl have the same falling speed. Relative to each other (which is the only comparison with merit), not all characters in brawl are floaty.

EVERYONE has excellent air control. ALL the characters in Brawl move like Jiggs did in Melee, so she is no longer unique.

This is just plain false. In brawl, some characters have far more air control than others. Far less than half of the cast has as much air control as jiggly did in melee.


I'm sorry that I'm not refuting your claims with video evidence and statistical data. You'll have to maybe play the game for yourself to find out. If you've already played it, pay closer attention next time.

 

[Niko_K]

lmfao you say peaches fair has some lag...its ridiculously fast

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I find it interesting that Samus has no laggy aerials, yet all of Fox's aerials do have lag.

 

[Big Burn]

good list... subscribed....

 

[Mario77]

Mario's Fair is the MOST laggy of all his aerials, yet you have it listed as no lag....

 

[Big Burn]

so on the aerials that are claimed to have no lag.. can u use these and not get shield grabbed for the most part? or do all the aerials have enough lag were u are going to get shield grabbed unless u space urself properly as opposed to doing a jab or down dodge after the aerial?