List for the next release (Updated 7/23)

[Revven]

YAYYYYY! ZARD DTHROW DAMAGE BUFF! FINALLY!!! Do you guys have any idea how long I was waiting for this day to come!? It's exhilarating! :D

Edit:

The blast zones on stages eat projectiles. Try jumping as far off the stage as you can and then pk thundering into the blastzone...

Fix now pl0x. Wasn't in Melee, needs to go, hinders Ness and Lucas when near the blast zone and trying to recover.

 

[The Cape]

So what else do we need to build on this with? I have been working hard out here, but I need something more leasurely. Like working on Brawl+ >.>

I got jabs and Wolf upB to finish. What else do we have that needs to be worked on or discussed?

 

[goodoldganon]

wolf side-B

Spike
2C0F5014 0310E133
0F502303 010E0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Upped base from 20 to 35

Not the spike
2C0A6A1E 0301C113
135D1E03 00200000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Put the Knee’s hitbox here

zard D-throw fire
1D010000 0516903C
03000005 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Upped to 3 damage from 1. D-throw does 16 damage now. 

TL Bair
290A7512 0203C033
0A751202 00430000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Angle 60 to 67

(On an aside, B-air -> B-air -> Up-b combos are TOO cool)

TL Fair
290D6416 02169033
0D641602 00230000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Angle 361 to 35

Wolf 'knee' sweetspot is super pimp. It's in a very specific part (right in front of him or on his back legs, his body and the little part above is it is the spike) and it makes edgeguarding Wolf risky. It has only one true combo into it, and that's from D-air at like 100-140% so he won't be using it in the same way as Falcon. It just makes edgeguarding Wolf tougher and more challenging and makes the sweetspot more rewarding. I am open to the idea of giving him a proper lead into the 'knee' though....


About Zard's D-throw: There are 5 hitboxes and another one that does 1 damage somewhere. So at 2 damage he'd do 11 damage, if that is more reasonable. I figured since he can't combo from it like Kirby can (who does 12 damage on his) that 16 damage seemed reasonable.

Other stuff is self explanatory.

 

[Shell]

For Zard's d-throw, it all depends on how drastically the damage increase affects the KB of the move. I'd say a reasonable killing range for the move is 110-120ish.

 

[leafgreen386]

The fire hits don't contribute to the kb, shell. All we would be doing is amplifying the damage it deals. We shouldn't make it too much, since the move is great for setting up techchases as it is... it just does absolutely pitiful damage. It doing 11 damage sounds fair to me, as I think 16 might be pushing it a little.

So Ganon's b-air? Are we in love with it? It seems both changes were poorly received. Also, I'm waiting on a response, but I think NY doesn't like the Ike changes. **** NY...

Personally, I like the ganon hitbox changes. Most of the people complaining about it seem to be randoms, as well, so until some actual high level players start complaining about it, I'm inclined to leave it.

 

[The Cape]

Shanus needs to put my mods in a test set already.

 

[Deleted member]

you can remove the infinite from the to do list

PAL

IC infinite removal V1.0 [The Paprika Killer]
C277A77C 0000000D
807E0044 3C008180
80BF0008 80A5FFFC
7C050000 4080004C
80C50030 2C06000F
40A20040 80C50028
2C06000F 40A20034
80A5002C 80A50060
80A5007C 80A5002C
80A50004 80A50D50
2C05003C 40A20014
80DE0038 2C060035
40A20008 3B800000
60000000 00000000

NTSC

IC infinite removal V1.0 [The Paprika Killer]
C277F77C 0000000D
807E0044 3C008180
80BF0008 80A5FFFC
7C050000 4080004C
80C50030 2C06000F
40A20040 80C50028
2C06000F 40A20034
80A5002C 80A50060
80A5007C 80A5002C
80A50004 80A50D50
2C05003C 40A20014
80DE0038 2C060035
40A20008 3B800000
60000000 00000000

 

[GHNeko]

How does it work.

 

[Deleted member]

well durr, it removes the infinite, it was written in memory, with sakurai's name behind it, thus I removed all those lines.

:V

it checks if you are an IC and specifically if you are nana, then checks what popo is doing (throwing) then if you (nana) grab the enemy at that moment, that is overwritten with you standing.
side effect is that making a "regrab" results in a grab release instead of a throw. for me this seems that landing a regrab is worse than not doing it, but it gives mindgame potential and maybe some insane strategy that has yet to be thought of.

small note, the new version of CAM, that was made for the new engine makes this glitchy, this is however of no concern, since we are still using the good old working CAM.

 

[shanus]

Unless I'm mistaken can make it so Popo cant grab if nana is throwing instead? That was ICs can do popo grab alt throw to nana grab to upsmash.

It could be the other way but i forget lol

Nice work paprika.

 

[The Cape]

I see you ignoring me Shanus!

I have a few DDD things to test that Giza is look at it. Since the heavies need work, or so I heard.

We need the DDD 2x flip stuff too Shanus.

 

[goodoldganon]

The infinite's removal is badass, but has anyone tested Wolf's knee?

 

[Revven]

The infinite's removal is badass, but has anyone tested Wolf's knee?

I would but, since I've got No More Heroes and Wario Land Shake It sitting on my Flash Drive and my inability to wanting to test something without sexy custom music is stopping me from testing anything until I beat those two games.

 

[shanus]

I see you ignoring me Shanus!

I have a few DDD things to test that Giza is look at it. Since the heavies need work, or so I heard.

We need the DDD 2x flip stuff too Shanus.

Flip stuff? And i keep posting from my iphone since im at my girlfriends so im trying to be concise

 

[The Cape]

DDD's upB flip. I made it 2x speed but it was pulled out. When you get home, put all this stuff in a set already.

 

[The Cape]

Ok. So I played the lastest set. Have a more things for this list:

- Sheik F tilt, the inside hit is almost as stupid as it was originally, homogonize the move and make them both have the outside hit stats.
- MK D tilt, needs to come out slower. Is a free grab on hit or block. He can even whiff the move and act too quickly out of it. IASA frame is so short that we need to nerf the startup a bit.
- MK upB invincibility, need to find a way to remove it. Marth's can stay, but MK's has to go. The move beats out all aerial approaches, and sets up for his glide attack.
- Being tripped (MK D tilt, Luigi D tilt, etc). Speed up the animation by about 5x so that you arent sitting there for a month waiting to be able to act. Same concept as what we did with jab locks.

 

[GHNeko]

I'm not keen on the tripping idea. :V

The point of moves that trip is so that you can follow up with something. :V

 

[leafgreen386]

I'd honestly rather remove all forms of random tripping, including move tripping. Leave diddy's bananas as the sole thing that can trip in this game.

- Sheik F tilt, the inside hit is almost as stupid as it was originally, homogonize the move and make them both have the outside hit stats.

Oh frick no. Do you even know what you're asking for here? You would create a lock even WORSE than the original ftilt lock. If anything it should be homogenized to make them both have the inside hit stats, which is admittedly something I've thought about several times, although I hate the idea of homogenizing that hitbox...

 

[RyokoYaksa]

First off... nothing is as stupid as Sheik's ftilt was originally.

The inner and outer hits of ftilt both had 20 BKB 100 KBG, just slightly different angles. Homogenizing to the other hit would just make a new ftilt lock where you turn around every so often x.x

Currently DI'ing away from the ftilt kills any locking and makes follow ups difficult but not impossible at higher percents, which is really the only thing that needed to be done about ftilt. You can't combo into an Usmash at its killing percents with the inner hit except against lolfastfallers who eat 50x more ridiculous kill setups anyway. It could probably use a little more growth (I was juggling between 50 and 60 and went with 50 for the nightly) but I think the angles on both hits are fine and landing different hits when you don't want to is not such a liability as it was before. Linking into Sheik's aerials is not much of a death threat.

 

[The Cape]

The main issue I saw was the fact that I tried DIing full away and even full towards and I still got F tilt juggled across the map with the move by itself. The move needs polish is the biggest part about what I am saying.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Don't just say that happened, tell us what character you were using. I couldn't replicate those results at all.

 

[The Cape]

I was playing a variety of chars:

Mario, DK, Falcon, and Ike off the top of my head.

 

[The Cape]

Ness forward B comes out frame 12 instead of 20:
0A040113 3F800000
0A000113 40000000

DDD:
Dsmash
hitbox 1
200F5232 0006902F
0C3C3200 00690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
hitbox 2
200F5232 0005002F
0C3C3200 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
hitbox 3
200F5232 0003202F
0C3C3200 00320000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

D smash:
12 damage, 50 base, 60 growth


Stars (1.25x size, 60 base, no growth from 8 base and 65 growth)
hitbox 5
66054108 02046000
05003C02 00460000
FFFFFFFF 3F999999

Nair (1.25x size)
Hitbox 1
200C551E 0003C033
0C551E00 003C0000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000
Hitbox 2
20075F1E 00050033
075F1E00 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000

2x startup on D smash
2007002F 3FA00000
2000002F 40000000

Samus:
Usmash
hitbox 1
03043232 05082032
04003C05 00AA0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
hitbox 2
03043232 05078032
04003C05 00AA0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
hitbox 3
03043219 0505A032
04003C05 00B90000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
hitbox 4
0305321E 05055032
05003C05 00B90000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
hitbox 5
03067832 05050032
06552805 00A50000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

 

[goodoldganon]

Ness forward B comes out frame 12 instead of 20:
0A040113 3F800000
0A000113 40000000

Dsmash
hitbox 1
200F5232 0006902F
0C3C3200 00690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
hitbox 2
200F5232 0005002F
0C3C3200 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
hitbox 3
200F5232 0003202F
0C3C3200 00320000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

D smash:
12 damage, 50 base, 60 growth


Stars (1.25x size, 60 base, no growth from 8 base and 65 growth)
hitbox 5
66054108 02046000
05003C02 00460000
FFFFFFFF 3F999999

Nair (1.25x size)
Hitbox 1
200C551E 0003C033
0C551E00 003C0000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000
Hitbox 2
20075F1E 00050033
075F1E00 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000

2x startup on D smash
2007002F 3FA00000
2000002F 40000000

Samus:
Usmash
hitbox 1
03043232 05082032
04003C05 00AA0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
hitbox 2
03043232 05078032
04003C05 00AA0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
hitbox 3
03043219 0505A032
04003C05 00B90000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
hitbox 4
0305321E 05055032
05003C05 00B90000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000
hitbox 5
03067832 05050032
06552805 00A50000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

PK Fire is fine. It doesn't need to be more spammable.

Samus's U-smash doesn't neeed to be able to link together. It's fine as it is. Really I don't know what you are trying with the changes there...seems pointless.

What stars? D3 or Yoshi?

 

[Revven]

I think the stars are in general, like, there's no difference between the two but, I believe it's D3's as while it was good enough in vBrawl, Brawl+ is much faster so fixing the stars to work like they should (stop you from punishing DDD's Up B in a sloppy manner) is fine.

Ness PK Fire is sped up not because of being too slow, it was at a fine speed before, it's because of the inconsistent hits and allows people to SDI out of it and punish Ness pretty badly. Ask Sage about it, but, I guess we could see how the change goes.

 

[shanus]

I think the only change there I agree with is nair for D3 being bigger. But I don't even think that is necessary

 

[goodoldganon]

I think the only change there I agree with is nair for D3 being bigger. But I don't even think that is necessary

Cape is gonna post a big set of all his changes he has been working on. You and I can be negative nancys and talk about what we don't like. I really don't like many changes when I first hear them, but we need to BR test em first.

 

[The Cape]

Ok. Test this shiz:

http://files.filefront.com/CapeTests7Jun2rar/;13869887;/fileinfo.html

Changes:
- Remove Ivy speed up on D smash (infinite combo) and angle from 270 to 300
- + 3 base Samus U smash hit 4
- Mario Uair to 65 degrees

 

[goodoldganon]

DDD: All seem good cept N-air. It still sucks. Making it slightly bigger isn't doing anything cept making it slightly less atrocious.

Samus: It's cool and all, but I don't think she needs any help. If we do give Samus help, let's do it with bombs instead.

Ivy: D-smash idea is just odd and in my opinion dumb. The whole speedup idea is way too fast (which you have noted) but much more lag and she'll never have anything to follow up with. I bet some characters can already getup attack through it. And if not now, they will if the move gets a semblance of reasonable lag.

Ness: It works...so...ya

Snake: Our gravity mods ****ed up C4 recovery, so it's good we are trying to slightly rectify that.

Ganon: I'm waiting on SHeLLs change. The electricity is a better element though.

Mario doesn't need this much help. Mario is better then Samus, and I don't think she needs help. We just have differing opinions on final polishes I guess.

Kirby swallow didn't seem to do anything but the Yoshi egg seemed to work. I have no idea though. Put em in a set to let the public see if they can figure it out. If the Yoshi egg did work, twice as long is too much time.

I'd like to stick to he list as best we can. It's things like these (Mario and Samus tweaks) that get us off on tangents and prevent us from ever finishing this project or releasing sets in a timely manner.

 

[shanus]

Making myself a list of things to add when im home:

you can remove the infinite from the to do list

PAL

IC infinite removal V1.0 [The Paprika Killer]
C277A77C 0000000D
807E0044 3C008180
80BF0008 80A5FFFC
7C050000 4080004C
80C50030 2C06000F
40A20040 80C50028
2C06000F 40A20034
80A5002C 80A50060
80A5007C 80A5002C
80A50004 80A50D50
2C05003C 40A20014
80DE0038 2C060035
40A20008 3B800000
60000000 00000000

NTSC

IC infinite removal V1.0 [The Paprika Killer]
C277F77C 0000000D
807E0044 3C008180
80BF0008 80A5FFFC
7C050000 4080004C
80C50030 2C06000F
40A20040 80C50028
2C06000F 40A20034
80A5002C 80A50060
80A5007C 80A5002C
80A50004 80A50D50
2C05003C 40A20014
80DE0038 2C060035
40A20008 3B800000
60000000 00000000

Wolf's upB final hit

Forward
2C038350 00041118
03835000 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Up
2C056432 0203703C
05645002 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Forward+Up
2C04733C 00169118
04735000 005A0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Angles 65, 55, and 0x169 -> 90, bases 80, 50, 60 -> 80

Charizard's flamethrower (from angle 60 to 75)
hb1
7302320C 0503C000
02320C05 004B0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

hb2
73011E0A 0503C000
011E0A05 004B0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000



Bowser's firebreath (from angle 55 to 75)
hb1
6E021E09 05037000
021E0905 004B0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

hb2
6E011405 05037000
01140505 004B0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

wolf side-B

Spike
2C0F5014 0310E133
0F502303 010E0000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Upped base from 20 to 35

Not the spike
2C0A6A1E 0301C113
135D1E03 00200000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Put the Knee’s hitbox here

zard D-throw fire
1D010000 0516903C
03000005 01690000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Upped to 3 damage from 1. D-throw does 16 damage now. 

TL Bair
290A7512 0203C033
0A751202 00430000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Angle 60 to 67

(On an aside, B-air -> B-air -> Up-b combos are TOO cool)

TL Fair
290D6416 02169033
0D641602 00230000
FFFFFFFF 3F800000

Angle 361 to 35

Nair (1.25x size)
Hitbox 1
200C551E 0003C033
0C551E00 003C0000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000
Hitbox 2
20075F1E 00050033
075F1E00 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000

Stay in Yoshi egg twice as long:
FF0000EC 3F000000

Snake "Now" on frame 15 instead of 29:
2E0E0119 3F800000
2E000119 40000000

I had already tested the kirby swallow and it doesn't do anything.

Cape, you do realize how badly you are nerfing D3's downsmash right? From the damage nerf and KBG nerf combined, your doing something of at mamixum 60% of the former KBG it used to have, while dealing less damage. Didn't we just say before that D3 needed help, not a mammoth nerf? I see your trying to make it more of a gtfo move by the 2x startup (did you mean to give it 1.2x for the rest of it at 3FA00000 and just forget to write it, or no?)

But downsmash is an awesome tech chase kill move and I just think feels to be an unnecessary move change.

 

[Deleted member]

ok I just got an unusual freeze.

me playing zelda vs a lvl 8 MK on battlefield.

about halfway in the match I transformed in the air, and it froze.

I used the 6-3 codeset + IC infinite code, but the latter can't possibibly have caused it due to the extensive checks I build in.

 

[JCaesar]

Were you using textures? I've experienced that freeze before, but it was because of the textures.

 

[Revven]

Cape, I think it's your set but, for some reason the standing animations were sped up... and some of the characters acted strangely (Wolf for example was frozen in place but I could move, and when I DID move and stopped, Wolf would be frozen in a walking animation but I could still move). I don't think it's my Flash Drive or anything (as the animations were clearly sped up) could you find the error plz? Probably a mistake somewhere in the Frame Speed mod.

Anyway, Samus Usmash is good. It works like it should when you hit them with it instead of putting you in a bad situation.

Mario Uair... dunno, bit odd. Need actual matches with it.

Ivysaur Dsmash obviously needs to be slowed down perhaps back to its original speed if you plan for it to trip 100% of the time.

Snake C4 is good, helps a lot.

I think that's about it that I could test. I just couldn't withstand the standing animations being sped up and some others having issues with it.

Edit: I rebooted it and played my Flash Drive without the codes on and the animations were fine. I loaded the code set via snapshot and the animations were fine as well again. I'm not sure what caused it, Cape, but keep an eye out for it (it may BE the Frame Speed Mod ****ing up somewhere).

 

[Deleted member]

Were you using textures? I've experienced that freeze before, but it was because of the textures.

no, I'm not using textures

 

[Shell]

I had the same error with the standing animations, SMK.

 

[Revven]

Forgot another thing, Yoshi's egg fix didn't do anything.

 

[MuBa]

Hey guys you think it's cool to make DK's Dair and Fair faster by 3.5-5%?

It'll defintely make his Fair much more useful. (SH Fair <3)

 

[Revven]

DK doesn't need that stuff though, MuBa. DK is already REALLY FLIPPIN' GOOD. Do you want him to be in the Top 10 as the best heavyweight? (As it is, I think he IS the best heavyweight). He makes use of Dair just fine and Fair should never be used onstage, only offstage as a meteor (that has high risk high reward).

 

[MuBa]

DK doesn't need that stuff though, MuBa. DK is already REALLY FLIPPIN' GOOD. Do you want him to be in the Top 10 as the best heavyweight? (As it is, I think he IS the best heavyweight). He makes use of Dair just fine and Fair should never be used onstage, only offstage as a meteor (that has high risk high reward).

Screw that! I think all DK attacks should be usable in every situation, not just for edgeguarding. It'll definitely make his combo game awesome :D. Give it a try dude.

 

[goodoldganon]

If we make anything of DK's useful it's gotta be n-air. Falco is overrating DK imo, but it's true he is already really good. DK doesn't need help.