Link's Match-up Thread: Ryu would like an answer to a question.

[SuSa]

Stop it sky', I will infract. Even if I'm not supposed to anymore. :| Seeing bull**** like this is exactly why I wanted to mod the place... places without mods turn up like this it seems.

My opinion with no reasons given, they should be obvious by both the pros and cons of each character:
60-40 Snake-Link, possibly worse or better. Never faced a top Link (read: Legan/Deva/Arkive? (he quit?))

 

[M4ge]

You all are silly.
Arguing in a dead board is too good.

 

[18.15.2.15x12.9.14.11]

You all are silly.
Arguing in a dead board is too good.

You are silly.
Posting in a dead board to say a dead board is dead is too good.

 

[M4ge]

Everyone reading this right now is an idiot for posting on a dead board. Yes. Including me for writing this. I don't know why I'm bumping a dead board.

I already know I'm silly. =P

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm putting this as a 60:40 Snake.

***** at me if you want I don't give a **** if you disagree, do it when I put up the export if you really feel like you need to prove the ratio wrong.

Enough side talk/spam already. :/

 

[-Mars-]

AiB boards aren't much better either lmao.

 

[SuSa]

Infractions handed out. Seriously. No more god**** talking and spam, take that to the social thread.

 

[M4ge]

****it SuSa. You troll me on AiB AND SWF.
And Marsulas, you don't even contribute to the boards. Really don't know what you're trying to prove here.

*Posts something about IC matchup just so I don't get infracted again*

I've been playing this matchup a LOT recently. This matchup may seem pretty daunting, since Link is slow and can get grabbed fairly easily. But, proper projectile use can prevent him from reaching you fast. Use a map with a LOT of platforms, or uneven ground in general. It makes them MUCH easier to play against.

 

[18.15.2.15x12.9.14.11]

****it SuSa. You troll me on AiB AND SWF.
And Marsulas, you don't even contribute to the boards. Really don't know what you're trying to prove here.

*Posts something about IC matchup just so I don't get infracted again*

I've been playing this matchup a LOT recently. This matchup may seem pretty daunting, since Link is slow and can get grabbed fairly easily. But, proper projectile use can prevent him from reaching you fast. Use a map with a LOT of platforms, or uneven ground in general. It makes them MUCH easier to play against.

He's just in a bad mood.

The current discussion is Snake, by the way. :3

1. snake doesn't have to approach, and even then, links projectiles are easy to get around. bow doesn't do anything, boomerang brings them towards you after they spotdodge, so you're basically left with bombs and zair, covered later

There's so much wrong with this... where do I start...
Bow stops grenades in their tracks, with minimal lag (arrow cancel).
Boomerangs do too, plus they sweep away grenades on its way back.
Bomb and zair explode grenades on touch.

2. almost every move in the game beats mortar slide, the main reason it's good is because it comes out so fast that most moves don't get out in time to stop it

It's not good... at least not as an attack.

3. you still don't ko him until really high %, and relying on dair is never good

Same with Link.

4. snake can crawl under zair 100% of the time, as well as the bow and most bombs

*crawls* *fsmashes your face*

5. with proper momentum tricks, snake is very hard to juggle, since he's always changing directions

He's still rather easy. B reversal is rather situational. Plus the back roll is so predictable. lol

6. "doesn't gimp you as much as everyone else" is not a bonus, he can still gimp you

No, he can't. Snake seriously fails at gimping Link.

7. link is limited to bombs, grenades are better than bombs. very few characters out camp snake, link is not one of them

If you obviously have no experience on this matchup, please don't post.

8. utilt is guaranteed to ko link on a neutral stage at 135 iirc, add that to bair, c4, nair, ftilt and everything else snake has, and you aren't living long against a good snake

See my previous post.
Ftilt is also punishable due to Link's tether grab. Nair is DI-able, and grab-able on landing, C4 should hit awake players very rarely, and bair is unreliable.

9. if he recovers high like an intelligent snake, what are you going to do?

Full hop double jump uair, if he dodges I'll fast fall and punish on the ground.

snake's recovery is punishable below the stage, and snake doesn't have to go below the stage unless he wants to C4 recover, which isn't punishable with good DI

You make it sound like Snake has a choice when he uses C4 recover... no Snake ever "wants to C4 recover." Dair can intercept fairly safely.

 

[-Mars-]

And Marsulas, you don't even contribute to the boards. Really don't know what you're trying to prove here.

Yea, I was on these boards a good 15 months before you even joined SWF so really I have no clue who you are or who you think you are.

 

[M4ge]

Congratulations. You joined 15 months earlier than one of my alternate accounts on a dead board. Feel proud?

Snake matchup. Main goal here is to keep him OUT. Once he gets inside, he can rack up damage incredibly fast. You have the tools to keep him out. All projectiles stop his DAC and his dash attack. He's also quite heavy, getting small combos on him will work. This matchup demands patience. You won't kill Snake at normal kill percents if he knows how to DI. You'll have to wait on a good chance to use a kill move.

60:40 Snake. 65:35 if both players know the matchup. 55:45 if Snake doesn't know the matchup.

Edit: ****it Numbers. You're giving me a reason to help these boards. <_<

 

[Valdens]

Deva beat DSF's Snake

in ONE match

on BRINSTAR

In AUGUST OF 2008

Seriously? Do the Link boards STILL bring that up?

and no, no Link main beat Ally at Genesis.


EDIT:

Ally wrote at 10:54 PM on Sep 3, 2009 :
I think I 2 stocked Deva twice =( AND NO LOL SNAKE ***** LINK HAHAHAHHA Smashboards is stupid anyhow.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Deva beat DSF's Snake

in ONE match

on BRINSTAR

In AUGUST OF 2008

Seriously? Do the Link boards STILL bring that up?

and no, no Link main beat Ally at Genesis.


EDIT:

Ally wrote at 10:54 PM on Sep 3, 2009 :
I think I 2 stocked Deva twice =( AND NO LOL SNAKE ***** LINK HAHAHAHHA Smashboards is stupid anyhow.

I clearly remember watching that set at Genesis. Pretty sure game 1 was a 3 stock on FD, but whatever, it was still ****.

 

[AllyKnight]

LOL but poor Deva =( I think I 3 stocked him 1st round actually NOT SURE. but Omg you people with 55:45 LOL PLZ KILL ME SOMEONE XD

 

[-Mars-]

It was on Norfair but yea it was a hella long time ago.

 

[Sky`]

SuSa needs to stop getting drunk with power, and realize that I only put like two spammy posts. My last one was legit.

Jeez, sensitive sammy.

 

[M4ge]

Guys. Really.
Stop. Arguing. With. A. Dead. Board.
I'm not sure how I can make it ANY clearer. You coming in here and typing about stuff you disagree with is making you look incredibly silly, especially since NO LINK MAINS come here. SuSa already came in here saying to stop this pointless argument. Yet you're STILL arguing. Please. Just stop posting in here and get on with your lives. Since Link sucks so bad, you shouldn't even be concerned with his numbers.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Since I'm done compromising on match-ups. Lets get back to what we were talking about earlier.

Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Marth, Lucario

Which do you want to talk about.

Guys. Really.
Stop. Arguing. With. A. Dead. Board.
I'm not sure how I can make it ANY clearer. You coming in here and typing about stuff you disagree with is making you look incredibly silly, especially since NO LINK MAINS come here. SuSa already came in here saying to stop this pointless argument. Yet you're STILL arguing. Please. Just stop posting in here and get on with your lives. Since Link sucks so bad, you shouldn't even be concerned with his numbers.

:/

It would be kind of odd if I ran the match-up board without maining the character.

 

[Alus]

Marth since someone was wondering about this earlier.

 

[Teran]

SuSa needs to stop getting drunk with power, and realize that I only put like two spammy posts.

SuSa's an angel dude, he's a lot more sympathetic and understanding than some of us.

Like me for instance, if you made a post about how your dog died in a thread it didn't belong in, I'd totally infract you for spam.

 

[Alus]

This post is spam.

*waits to be infracted*

 

[18.15.2.15x12.9.14.11]

SuSa's an angel dude, he's a lot more sympathetic and understanding than some of us.

It doesn't take an angel to do just that much.

Deva beat DSF's Snake

in ONE match

on BRINSTAR

In AUGUST OF 2008

Seriously? Do the Link boards STILL bring that up?

You asked when a Link has ever beaten a good Snake, and I gave you an answer. No johns.

and no, no Link main beat Ally at Genesis.

Maybe it was idle gossip? I don't know.

LOL but poor Deva =( I think I 3 stocked him 1st round actually NOT SURE. but Omg you people with 55:45 LOL PLZ KILL ME SOMEONE XD

GJ, you're a better player than Deva. I still think it's 55:45 though.

:/

It would be kind of odd if I ran the match-up board without maining the character.

Just say you co-main Link. X3

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Just say you co-main Link. X3

I guess if I were to be formal about this I'd have to say I'm a,

Link, Lucario, Falco, Peach, Shiek, Zelda, Ike, Sonic, main.

I care more about the first two than the others but I still <3 them all.

~

And I think I'm going to start Marth.

Mostly just from the other thread made about it and there are somepeople who want to review it. So Marth is a gogo.

 

[Steel]

6:4 marth imo

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

6:4 marth imo

I agree.

I'll write up more later.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

60:40 hands down

 

[SuSa]

SuSa needs to stop getting drunk with power, and realize that I only put like two spammy posts. My last one was legit.

Jeez, sensitive sammy.

Not counting mods who have only moderated for 1 month or less, I think I've handed out the least amount of infractions/warnings out of every single moderator.

Please do tell me (preferably in a visitor or private message) how that is drunk with power.

Also no spammy posts are legit.


60:40 Marth, pretty much what's been said.....multiple times...

 

[o-Serin-o]

Not counting mods who have only moderated for 1 month or less

Uhm, **** you. >.>

 

[GreyClover]

Marth can suck my balls. His aerial game is ****ed up and will combo you in chains you'd never imagine. Don't ty to jab cancel since Marth can UpB out of it and don't let Marth gimp you too early with un-tipped fairs or bairs. Zair is about your best projectile since most of Marth's sword attacks stops bombs and arrows. If Marth's approaching in the air punish with Zair and combo him out of a Zair. Space very carefully, you don't want to run into a tipped Fsmash to the face.

Some matches are mostly relied on the stage. Take a stage like BattleField, now oh boy that's a stage that Marth can give you the most ****. The small stage and platforms make pressuring with aerials and dolphin Slash extremley easy and is pretty unwinnable. Always go to a big stage like FD so you can space easier.

65:35 Marth.

 

[Lawz.]

Marth wins but i'd say it's 60:40 at the maximum.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Marth's Aerial game and range can be annoying.

Defensively Marth is a monster, but fortunately we force him to approach. Link is going to projectile spam and Zair all day, unless Marth gets too close, which he will at points. Marth has some grabs that can set up from nasty stuff on Link, I've heard of some psuedo death combo's but I've never seen a Marth actually do it on me.

The range of our swords is very close, Marth's is still long, but we can get in on it if we need to. The main problem comes from the speed of our attacks. Link is too slow to make use of his range like Marth can. Beware at low percents as Marth can juggle and string attack on Link fairly easily.

Marth can gimp Link, but at the same time so can Link. Marth has an easier time than Link when it comes to this, but Zair on the ledge can be deadly if used correctly.

Norfair is fun, battlefield is not.

60:40 Marth. His speed and off stage game is too good.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Bumping cause I want people to post more than 60-40 Marth.

Also I put up a match-up chart, I'm fixing it with one that will have better boarder but for now that will have to do.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Well not much was said.

Either way we need to move on.

Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Lucas, Lucario

Your pick.

 

[ndayday]

Lucas or Lucario.

Preferably Lucario since it seems you know about him and the discussion would be over fairly quick.

 

[GreyClover]

Lucario. A lot of us seem to know the matchup really well.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I guess we could do Lucario.

I'll need to do another giant write up like I did for Link over on Lucario boards. Also I think we're the sixth board this week that wanted to talk Lucario. Anyways...

Lucario is a gogo.

Before I do my write up, I can say for sure this is 60:40 Lucario.

 

[Aurasmash14]

I guess we could do Lucario.

Also I think we're the sixth board this week that wanted to talk Lucario. Anyways...

naww i think you guys are the 7th.

 

[GreyClover]

Lucario's aerial game gives me nightmares at night, and I know every other Link is scared too. Link's will space themselves hard otherwise Lucario is going to combo him forever, Zair can be annoying but it is predictable. Because of Link's wieght and speed Lucario can juggle you real easy either on the ground or in the dreaded air. Lucario's early game relys on pretty much on juggling and spamming safely intill he gets to a disadvantage in damage or stock, then he'll be retreating more than you. Because of his overrated ability when Lucario is at a disadvantage his attacks get stronger and has more knockback. An aura buffed Fsmash is as strong as a falcon punch but with much more speed. Always save your kill moves till the end otherwise Lucario is going to enforce **** on you. Watch out for Lucario's jab, jab, force plam chain.

Link can outcamp Lucario. Luca's aura shpere dosen't have much priority because of it's slow speed and it travels in a straight line, most of our sword attacks stop it also. Enforce all types of projectiles to keep Lucario at a comfortable area.

Lucario's Fsmash is a great move to use. The push you get from it protects yourself against shield grabs or punishes. And Dair yes, you don't know how frustrating it is with this move in your arsenal for Link. I don't if Link can gimp Lucario but I know he can Nair or Bair you back offstage easily since Luca's recovery has no attack frames. Chaingrab is very bad for Link por weight use it at the start of a stock for a sweet 40% damage. Lucario has problems with killing upwards espically if Link knows how to DI.

Take Lucario to stages that have low celings and open areas. Halberd is a good example; with the moderate space you should be able to space fairly better and killing vertically shouldn't be a problem either for Link.

This is definitely in Lucario's favor but only 60:40 at best.

Quote from me in the Lucario boards, just added a little more details.

 

[phi1ny3]

Link iz cool.
Lucario iz cooler.
60:40 because aura iz moar awesome, and Link waz nerfed.
Better camp game dude, but better tools/livability (lucario iz da gimp masta)
lucario juggles well, but link iz like "whoa no homo bro!" and iz going to space your stuff away.
zair is nice, bombs are too
Mindgame lucario into a dsmash, it comes out faster than most think it does.
Nair is also pretty okey-dokey, but I wouldn't challenge lucario in the air because he noes kung fu.
Be annoying, you let him on you, you die T.T
*Used to play Link when looking for a new low tier main for low tier tourneys*

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I like your summary Phil.

Anyways now from the Link perspective.

Lucario vs Link.

Hey it's that chocolate loving pokemon that kind of replaced Mewtwo, Lucario. Kick it kick it Aura Power!!!

Anyways, lets get to the basics, Lucario is a character that uses aura to give himself more range on his attacks. Link will outrange him on most attacks, but Lucario has low ending lag and enough range to contend with Link. Lucario will also get buffs on his moves in terms of knockback, shieldstun, and damage.

First off projectiles, Lucario has an aura sphere, which is a little ball of energy that hurts you. He can charge if or not charge it and fire BAS, baby aura spheres. Links arrows will clash with BAS until Lucario gets to mid percentage, then they will outright beat them, Full charged aura spheres will beat arrows at any %. Gale Boomerang will beat BAS until mid to high percentage, Fully charged aura spheres will eat Link's boomerang at mid percentage. Bombs are awesome in contending with Aura sphere, they will clash with full charged ones, no matter what % Lucario is at. You could stand still and Link's shield will block the Aura sphere, but Link has better things he could be doing. Still nice to know this as an option Link can do.

Lucario can kill with Fsmash, Dair, and Aura sphere. Fortunately Link's Usmash if timed and spaced correctly will beat Lucario's Dair. Aura sphere can be handled with projectiles until higher % when you just spam bombs to stop it, but it's still threatening. Fsmash is scary, it may have some start up lag, but the ending lag is almost nonexistent. It's a good spacing tool, and kill move.

Link hould try to kill Lucario vertically, He has trouble with these kinds of kill moves. Dsmash, Utilit, can kill him earlier. Any other killer Link has can work, except Link's Dair which Lucario's Usmash outranges. Now here is a tid bit about killing Lucario, don't panic when he gets his Aura buff and kills with insane kill power, I've played people who have panicked with the Aura buff and started getting reckless in trying to kill me in fear of the buff, in the end it just help Lucario make openings in which he could kill easier. Don't panic and space accordingly.

Lucario is also known to be one of the few characters with true combos and strings. He does have them, this is bad for Link. Due to Link's falling speed and weight he is susceptible to Fair strings and juggling for quite a while. If Lucario is trying to CG you with his Force Palm, side B, mash out like any grab. You can do this while your under 30%, afterward he can do it. Fair>fair>Nair is a set up at low % Lucario can do on Link. Lucario is much better close up compared to Link despite Link having some range advantage, Lucario may share some start up lag problems like Link does but he doesn't have much if any ending lag on most attacks. Combine this with his range and it can get messy for Link. Link is better mid range with his projectiles forcing Lucario to approach.

Link is going to live longer than Lucario with good DI and momentum canceling, as long as he doesn't get gimped. Lucario can gimp Link in quite a few ways, Aura sphere can force Link to Airdodge and fail to recover, Fair chains off stage, Dair, Bair. He has a lot of ways to go about it and can go out pretty far to gimp Link.

The info below is copied and pasted from the Lucario boards when I did a write up over there, I just add a bit more info.

For stages, If I were Link I'd want to go to Norfair, Brinstar, or Final destination. Norfair is Link's best stage, it helps his camp game, makes it easier for him to get kills, and occasionally helps his bad recovery with lava, if I were to ban a stage against a Link I'd ban this one over the others. Final destination is recommended due to how it helps Link with his camping a bit more. Link does well on rainbow Cruise against some characters, most Lucario's hate that stage with a passion.

If I were Lucario I'd take Link to Frigate, he has a horrible recover, combine that with this stage and no grabbing on some sides and you get a very happy Lucario. Japes helps Link's camping a bit, but it helps Lucario more with the gimping he can do combined with the high ceiling. Yoshi's island is good for Lucario, but it also helps Link out. I'd ban Frigate against Lucario.

Due to Link's bad recovery and Lucario's abilty to juggle him I'd rate this, 60:40 Lucario.