Link Social Thread

[Rarik]

Har har har har har

 

[Sarix]

Es ist in Ordnung Fortress. Sie erhalten Unterstützung dafür.

 

[Fortress]

Jai ne parlez pas Deutch...

Or however you'd say that.

 

[Rarik]

Je ne parle pas allemand, mais je parle un petit peu de francais.

 

[Sarix]

Yeah I'm learning German for a college class and decided why not post a sentence on Smashboards lol.

 

[Fortress]

Je ne parle pas allemand, mais je parle un petit peu de francais.

I think I get the gist of it, 'I don't speak (something, something), I only speak a little bit of French', or something other.

Eh, jai oublie.

 

[NaijaboyIrin]

Hylian, why do you wait until after the second hit of Fair to fastfall? Wouldn't that decrease frame advantage?

 

[Fortress]

Not that you asked me, but I'll chime in. You sacrifice the advantage of speed for that wicked second hit. It hits like a freight train, among some of Link's other attacks. It's really difficult to take advantage of the second hit of Fair, since the attack itself is so lengthy. You really have to commit to getting that hit.

 

[Hylian]

Hylian, why do you wait until after the second hit of Fair to fastfall? Wouldn't that decrease frame advantage?

I do both, I try to mix it up and keep my opponent guessing.

I felt I wasn't playing my best in these videos btw(videos for nerd rage I felt I was playing my best to compare) but I'll certainly consider the advice given.

 

[Sarix]

That's understandable Hylian. We're not robots so we won't play perfectly or optimally every time despite how much we strive to.

 

[Hylian]

For me it was because I was practicing melee and playing both, nerd rage I was only playing PM so naturally I felt like I was playing better.

 

[Sarix]

Yeah I have that too whenever I practice PM and Blazblue.

 

[EmptySky00]

So I was going to ask, could Fair's second hit be sped up 2-3 frames so it can come out of a short/ledge hop more completely?


And I still maintain that I think bair should connect into the second kick more consistently. I swear to God it's not spacing dependant like everyone's telling me. The first kick throws them away about 70% of the time at mid-ish percents, and even sometimes at low percents it doesn't connect. I'm not going to foolishly state that the move is bad again (wasn't really thinking at that point), but I do feel like it could be tweaked to at least be consistent.

 

[Hylian]

That would make fair worse IMO.

You need to be moving with bair for it to connect not standing in the same spot if that's what you're doing. I have no problems making it connect >_>.

 

[EmptySky00]

That would make fair worse IMO.

You need to be moving with bair for it to connect not standing in the same spot if that's what you're doing. I have no problems making it connect >_>.

Again, I do that. I move with their DI. I'm not completely impotent. Them flying away after taking the first kick can hardly be the cause of me not moving with them, as I do that already. And I just think it's poor design to have a multi-hit move throw the opponent away from the second hit. That's all I'm saying.


How would it make it worse? It's just a few frames and would hardly make a difference. A few frames doesn't even matter nor could it possibly make it worse at all.

But seriously, how do you figure? Less frame advantage because he lands a couple frames after it would be blocked? I'm asking because if it was just a couple frames faster, then the swing could come out more and the second slash would have more range from short hop (which I like to do to bait them into counterattacking prematurely).

 

[Hylian]

Links fair is one of the safest fairs on shield in the game. If you want it to be safe on shield you just fast fall. The point of the second hit coming so late is for mix-ups, it coming right before he lands is great for that because your opponent might try to jump out of their shield at that time, or various other things. You shouldn't be *trying* to hit a shield with the second hit.

Also, I can only assume it's user error for your problems with bair, as I have no problem comboing with it.

 

[EmptySky00]

Links fair is one of the safest fairs on shield in the game. If you want it to be safe on shield you just fast fall. The point of the second hit coming so late is for mix-ups, it coming right before he lands is great for that because your opponent might try to jump out of their shield at that time, or various other things. You shouldn't be *trying* to hit a shield with the second hit.

Also, I can only assume it's user error for your problems with bair, as I have no problem comboing with it.

I understand this, which is why I said only like 2 frames. <_< But nevermind then.



User error my ass. It most certainly is not. But you're just intent on telling me I'm wrong either way, aren't you? I seriously wish you guys would fix replays IF ONLY so I could get a plethora of video examples without having to go out of my way to switch codesets. It isn't user error. The first kick shouldn't throw them away regardless. The fact that it's THROWING them away from me implies that it isn't my spacing but the move's KB itself. Again, I've tried it with various spacing, and at many percents. And it still throws them away far too consistently. I'm not saying I never get it to connect, why the hell should they get off free because the move isn't made to link into its second hit? It's idiotic design.

And what would even be the issue with tweaking it so it works better? Is it going to break the game? Is it going to render the move unusable for your specific purposes?


I respect you as a player, but Jesus Christ you annoy me sometimes.

 

[Hylian]

I'm sorry if I can't understand your problems because I don't have them but you don't need to be so rash. The first hit doesn't have much bkb or kbg, it shouldn't be hitting them out of range of the second hit. How can I not think you're wrong when I connect with it fine? Multi-hit moves by nature won't hit your opponent with every hit unless they have 0 sdi multipliers, you are probably experiencing people SDIing out of bair. Every time my bair doesn't link I feel like I understand why or I did so purposely, if I felt a move wasn't working properly I would certainly bring it up. Just because it isn't super easy to hit with doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Edit:

Here are some examples where I'm not even moving with my bair and both hits connect and then I combo out of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkCJlOBPy2I&t=2h09m28s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkCJlOBPy2I&t=2h11m48s


Just went and checked, the stats for the first hit of bair are:

7 damage, 0 bkb, 100 kbg. It should be linking >_>.

 

[EmptySky00]

I'm sorry if I can't understand your problems because I don't have them but you don't need to be so rash. The first hit doesn't have much bkb or kbg, it shouldn't be hitting them out of range of the second hit. How can I not think you're wrong when I connect with it fine? Multi-hit moves by nature won't hit your opponent with every hit unless they have 0 sdi multipliers, you are probably experiencing people SDIing out of bair. Every time my bair doesn't link I feel like I understand why or I did so purposely, if I felt a move wasn't working properly I would certainly bring it up. Just because it isn't super easy to hit with doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Edit:

Here are some examples where I'm not even moving with my bair and both hits connect and then I combo out of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkCJlOBPy2I&t=2h09m28s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkCJlOBPy2I&t=2h11m48s


Just went and checked, the stats for the first hit of bair are:

7 damage, 0 bkb, 100 kbg. It should be linking >_>.

I don't think they're SDI'ing. They're not that good. I only act semi-hostile when people act like I'm being stupid. But I'll play some games on the wifi codeset and see if I can't get some examples. That's obviously the most constructive course of action, but I can't do that right now so...


I figure it SHOULD be hitting, but there are many times where it DOESN'T. I didn't mean to imply that it never does, but it seems like almost 50ish percent (with a slight window for hyperbole) where it just ****s up. It's just annoying. If it comes out that it's just me then fine. It just seemed inconsistent and it gets on my nerves when my opponent escapes because the move says so. Taking my capture card back to college then. Wheee.

 

[GHNeko]

Yo EmptySky. Are you a ram or buck or something? You love butting heads in this thread it seems lol.

Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Sarix]

I think it's probably just you EmptySky. I have no trouble connecting both hits of Bair at all.

 

[Fortress]

You main Litchi..?

 

[EmptySky00]

Yo EmptySky. Are you a ram or buck or something? You love butting heads in this thread it seems lol.

Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk 2

Not necessarily. But yeah, I noticed. Pardon. It's unintentional.



Alright so I'll admit I'm an idiot. I played like 30 games (not to try and prove anything about this particular thing, but just to play) and paid close attention to my bairs. It didn't do it once throughout all of those games. Perhaps it was just availability bias. I noticed when it happened, but didn't really pay attention to all the times it didn't happen, so the examples of it seemed far more frequent than they are. When my opponent was thrown away at 17% and 40%~ and 70%~, it was probably random instances of smash DI like you said. I know it wasn't user error, but rather outlier instances of Smash being Smash. If I play the other codeset and it happens, I'll save the replay regardless. My bad. Wheee.
I'll offer these to atone for my sins:

http://youtu.be/kZNJhUld7Ek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH4sUrQAabY

I was getting some sick 0-100~ combos though(replayyyysss nooooo). Involving bair. Lawl. I'm actually fairly content with Link at this point now that my points about the boomerang and bair have been proven incorrect. And I'll get over the nair. Regardless of whether I disagree. So yeah. Link pretty cool.

 

[Sarix]

You main Litchi..?

I thought I mentioned this to you before. But yes I main the Boobie Lady in Blazblue. :D

 

[Fortress]

I thought I mentioned this to you before. But yes I main the Boobie Lady in Blazblue. :D

I think you did, but, you didn't say Haku-Men or Relius, so I may have just blanked it from my memory due in part of Litchi not being as money.

 

[Sarix]

I think you did, but, you didn't say Haku-Men or Relius, so I may have just blanked it from my memory due in part of Litchi not being as money.

Not being money, what? I like her flexible pressure, zoning, and defensive options that give her an AMAZING neutral game. I also tend to be magnetized to tragic heroes or characters with baggage. I'm currently learning her on arcade stick since playing her on pad is not a pleasant experience I would recommend to anyone.

 

[Fortress]

Her flexible.... hmmm..?

 

[Sarix]

You would go there. I've gotten jokes about her staff being a magic stripper pole though haha.

She's a very fun character though imo. She has really high execution requirements in her combos and below average damage midscreen. But her corner carry is great and she is terrifying in the corner in how she can lock you in there.

I wish there was a Smash character like her in Project M. If I could design one of the cast members to function a bit like her it would be Samus. Mostly by giving her multiple combo starters and high execution requirements via techniques like WD > Attack followups or heavily utilizing her ability to do 2 air normals in one short hop. But that's just a dream of mine, I don't expect it to happen haha.

 

[Fortress]

Litchi is crazy good, but to me, she was really difficult to attempt to pick up. She felt tougher to play than most of the cast, which is why she's near (or at) the top of the roster.

 

[Sarix]

Yeah like I said, those high execution requirements don't make her beginner friendly. Having to manage the staff's placement and when she needs to be in [m] or [e] mode also contribute to her steep learning curve.

Until CP she was basically going to only be A tier or up because of how ridiculously versatile she is. She's definitely a character who rewards hard work, which I like about her. And Weak Executioner, especially the vocal version basically sealed the deal on maining her. And now she's S tier again (EEEEEEE!), now with a legit anti-air, one of the best overdrives, and an amazing new super to replace Great Wheel/Daisharin.

 

[GHNeko]

blazblu

Lmfao.

At least its not p4a.

I swear arcsys is ridiculous with its balance and design.

 

[EmptySky00]

I personally think Ragna is harder to play than Fox.

 

[Sarix]

Lmfao.

At least its not p4a.

I swear arcsys is ridiculous with its balance and design.

Ridiculously good or bad? Because I would argue the first myself. It's not perfect but the tier list disparity is a much smaller gap than most fighting games since they've gotten both the Guilty Gear and Blazblue rosters only going as low as B tier.

I personally think Ragna is harder to play than Fox.

Learning a character in a traditional 2D fighter compared to Smash is like learning a second language. There are similarities but system mechanics really change a lot.

 

[EmptySky00]

Learning a character in a traditional 2D fighter compared to Smash is like learning a second language. There are similarities but system mechanics really change a lot.

Yes, for sure. Trying to learn GG Chipp combos is a struggle for me. But I was saying that in jest because at my college there's a guy that abhores Ragna players and complains about how my comboes are all about the same and he's the most scrub-friendly character ever.

When I don't even own the game to learn more combos. I would think it would come down to basics at that point, since if he doesn't let me get the initial hit my repetitive combos won't even matter.

But yeah. I was joking.

 

[Sarix]

Yes, for sure. Trying to learn GG Chipp combos is a struggle for me. But I was saying that in jest because at my college there's a guy that abhores Ragna players and complains about how my comboes are all about the same and he's the most scrub-friendly character ever.

When I don't even own the game to learn more combos. I would think it would come down to basics at that point, since if he doesn't let me get the initial hit my repetitive combos won't even matter.

But yeah. I was joking.

No biggie I figured you were joking. I have to relearn Millia's corner carry in GG+R since the extra 6 frames of start-up on j.D means I can't use 2H > j.K > j.D anymore.

Most of Ragna's combos are pretty basic and require 50 Heat to make them really good but he's a good beginner character for a reason, so his combos won't have much variety. I play with people who main the likes of Makoto and Noel and tell me their combos hard when I main Litchi lol.

These are my two most basic corner carry combos that I still need to master:

Opener > Haku > Hatsu > ReachA > A > B (Hatsu) > 5D > Chun > 2C > Staff 2 > TK Chun > 2C[m] > 4D > 5D > IAD > j.C > Staff 2 > 6D(2) > Ender

Opener > Staff Launch > Haku > Chun > Staff 2 > TK Chun > 2C[m] > 4D > 5D > IAD > j.C > Staff 2 > 6D(2) > Ender

 

[EmptySky00]

No biggie I figured you were joking. I have to relearn Millia's corner carry in GG+R since the extra 6 frames of start-up on j.D means I can't use 2H > j.K > j.D anymore.

Most of Ragna's combos are pretty basic and require 50 Heat to make them really good but he's a good beginner character for a reason, so his combos won't have much variety. I play with people who main the likes of Makoto and Noel and tell me their combos hard when I main Litchi lol.

These are my two most basic corner carry combos that I still need to master:

Opener > Haku > Hatsu > ReachA > A > B (Hatsu) > 5D > Chun > 2C > Staff 2 > TK Chun > 2C[m] > 4D > 5D > IAD > j.C > Staff 2 > 6D(2) > Ender

Opener > Staff Launch > Haku > Chun > Staff 2 > TK Chun > 2C[m] > 4D > 5D > IAD > j.C > Staff 2 > 6D(2) > Ender

Yeah, I know. I use my characters based on character design then how much I enjoy the playstyle. It had nothing to do with tier placement or ease of use. I feel like he was making excuses because he actually plays the game and I was beating him like 20 times in a row. <_> He's cool though. Sometimes.

I'm having trouble getting down 2D > 236S(?) > S > iAD > air combo
I always **** up the air dash. Either it doesn't go through or I hit them too late and it's not a combo. Those FRC combos are ridiculous to do. I highly doubt I'll ever be able to execute them. But they're so cool...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfP5gSDoKl0

I don't even really know how to air combo yet because I'm trying to learn setups for it first. Can't practice it if I can't set it up. Lol. I'm so bad. Not used to 2D fighters.

 

[FlashingFire]

That Link discussion.

 

[Sarix]

Btw Hylian I have a quick question.

I was re-testing Link's kill percentages on certain moves and there's roughly a little over 30% disparity on Dsmash where it kills sooner with the hitboxes in the center of the sword and much later with the tip.

Was this intentional? I'm not saying change it I just find it rather odd since typically it's ideal to space our moves properly and spacing is really crucial for a zoning character like Link. Or was it implemented as a risk/reward scenario? I'm just curious is all.

 

[Hylian]

Yeah it's intentional. Almost all of his hitboxes have the most knockback in the center.

 

[Sarix]

Thank you for clarifying. I can keep that in mind now when spacing.