You keep acting like this is the biggest problem in the world that I accepted Gheb's contract on me but I have yet to see much "negative" aspects about it besides that it will cause people to have to highlight my posts when they read them.
In a game with 8 players, diverting attention towards or away anyone arbitrarily is probably the single biggest boon scum can have. Just saying.
I have an honest question for you Circus, do you think a posting color change to black will honestly keep me quiet/not a presence in the game? Plus so far, I'm good with this restrction so far with emotion so who's to say I'm going to fail?
You just did the same thing Gheb did. You proclaimed that it wasn't a big deal, but then followed it up with "it wouldn't happen anyway". That's called "stacked reasoning". Kind of the opposite of dichotomous reasoning. Instead of "one or the other", it's both with you. Anyone with siblings has gone through this dozens of times, if not hundreds.
"Hey, go get us cookies from the cabinet"
"But mom said we're grounded!"
"Yeah, but she's gone so she can't see you. Plus if we got caught we'd both take the blame and we wouldn't be grounded for very long"
No one trusts their brothers implicitly during childhood after they realize what's going on in those conversations, and both you and Gheb have done this. It's inherently dishonest because it deliberately plays to both sides and hides information. You pretend you can see the future and say it won't be that bad if it happens, but at the same time can lambast people for saying the opposite of you, even though neither party knows for sure what the outcome would be.
But you know what? I'm going to say you're going to fail, because you're going to fail on purpose.
@town
I'd like for J to immediately break the contract. Gheb will not report the contract being broken in any way, shape, or form.
I'd like to put an end to the bull**** here in regards to pointless contracts.
Does anyone disagree?
There is something I have been noticing so far with this game so far Circus is that you are just focusing on others contracts on one another and not really about scum-hunting on the slots themselves. Sure, you can say that you are making your way to finding scum-reads through pursuing Gheb on his contracts but you aren't really being fair with your pursuit but moreso just honing in on one fact of what he has done that is "You can't have possibly been trying to limit J/July to be able to read them." or "You have nothing to gain from accepting the contract." If July/Myself thought the contracts didn't help us at all, we would not have accepted them. That's the bottom line.
The "bottom line" is that town doesn't like them and you were stupid to accept them. If you're town, you've jeopardized both your own ability to contribute to this game in addition to Gheb's survival. He is very clearly one of the prominent lynch choices today and it is in some part due to his contract with you. Accepting it was stupid.
J said:
You are not correct, in the slightest sense of the word. Yes, I accepted the contract but that doesn't mean I am just going to assume he naturally had the best interests at heart. It's incredibly naive to think as such. At the current time, I seemed to see the pros much moreso than the negatives. Gheb could be scum giving himself a reason to limit myself and July, sure. However, there is no evidence to suggest as such. There is no evidence to suggest the positive either so I went with what do I gain out of this agreement and I liked what I got so I agreed.
You asked a question on Raz, from the beginning he was coming off care-free and now he is begginning to stick his neck out more against certain things. Still null and TBH, I probably am going to be leaning null on a lot of people during this first day phase with purely going off of vibes since this is just going to be a challenge to acquire a read on anyone that is super strong.
If I had a daykill, I'd kill you right now. This post brings you into the "danger" category on its own.
You "see the pros"? The contract does
absolutely nothing good for anyone, least of all you, in any way that requires the contract to be agreed upon. You could have easily said "Oh, good idea. I refuse the contract, but will do it anyway". There was no reason to accept.
Gheb could be scum giving himself a reason to limit you and July, but there is no "evidence"? Are you blind? The contracts themselves are evidence, topped off by a heaping slice of Occam's Razor cake. Careful, it's sharp.
What pro-town reason would Gheb have for sending those contracts? There is absolutely no reason whatsoever. It was independently concocted with GHEB's best interests in mind. Not town's. There is absolutely no reason to believe Gheb's motives this game have been pro town at all as he has been actively working against a cohesive town and has instead opted for the rambo approach.
Raz beginning to "stick his neck out"? He's done absolutely nothing of the sort. You're just saying words and not committing to anything. Read Raz's posts and tell me what he stuck his neck out on. Quote it for me.
And the last sentence? Not even worth my breath. If you're a few posts into Day 1 and you try to announce to town that you're probably going to be sticking to null reads in a 3 Day game, you might as well put your head on the chopping block now.
J said:
The bolded bottom portion is really bad for me. Where have I expressed an allegiance to Gheb? Where I have I been buddying him? You are exaggerating the agreeing of his PoV to why he gave me the contract and why I accepted it. You also are twisting what I said when I "immediately defended" Gheb's contract which, in itself, is a bit of an extreme wording because then you say that I started in on you because you "dared" to take issue with stuff. That is not the reason I started in on you, I started in on you because you are purely focusing on the negative of facts and not looking at anything else.
I do not like the way you are trying to word what I said w.r.t. Gheb/Yourself by saying I never questioned Gheb but I began to question you. It's an inflation of what actually happened and actually not true with how you are trying to tell this story.
Where have you been expressing allegiance to Gheb?
You've:
A) supported his contract usage with both yourself and July, despite July's having a voteblock and your primary defense of your own contract being "black text isn't that bad" (this is incongruous in comparison)
B) AGREED TO HIS CONTRACT IMMEDIATELY
C) Tell us to "see it from his point of view", but refuse to see it from
everyone but yours and Gheb's perspective
D) Share the same OMGUS traits as Gheb. Circus goes after you, you attack Circus. I attack Gheb, Gheb attacks me.
E) You literally support his posts without being asked for assistance
You
didn't question Gheb and still haven't. Gheb stated that you two had talked about it privately in other situations and felt it was obvious you would accept, yet when Circus reiterates what Gheb said in the very post I'm quoting and says "am I correct in you not being suspicious of his motives" your answer was "absolutely not, in any sense of the word".
Where is your questioning of Gheb?
Where is your case on Gheb?
What contracts have you sent Gheb?
What advantage or reward do you get from Gheb?
Why is your position on Gheb not completely crystal clear to absolutely everyone at this moment?
Why are you more concerned with Circus being vocal about your relationship with Gheb?
Why are you attacking Circus' process as a means of defense?
Why is there absolutely NO cross posting between you and Gheb despite both of you having separate conversations about the same thing and both of you obviously connected and invested in these discussions?
J said:
Gheb said:
There's a difference between what one is saying and what one is posting. You can never trust what July is posting because she'll never quite let you know what she's actually saying. You think she's "open and communicative" but that exactly how she wins game as scum - by letting you think she's "open and communicative".
Really, this just confirms that July needs to post more and be open about her reads. You've already fallen for the same fallacy that like 5 towns did and let her get away with it. That's exactly what I'm trying to prevent.
This is really true about July, @Circus. July really has blinded me in the past because I thought she was being "open and communicative" but in the end she was being a treacherous witch of manipulation behind her walls. I think you are underestimating her ability to trick people.
Why are you literally backing up Gheb's posts?
You're playing defense J, and you're not doing very well at it.
J said:
I was going to use the contract I already accepted to try and use it to gain me moreso to make a contract with Ryker because he dislikes my emoticon usage. So since I thought if I gave up my emoticons, we could trade off and he could give up his use of the emotion anger/agression.
There is a triangle here, and we can determine truth.
@Sworddancer
We can't discuss specifics of time, but can you determine the relation between J's contract with Gheb and the contract he sent Ryker? We have already determined that Gheb's contracts were sent around approximately 1:30 p.m., as stated earlier by both July and Gheb, semi-confirmed by timestamps in the thread. This is a gross approximation. You should be able to retrieve this information from the moderator as he is copied on all requests. If J in actuality sent his contract request to Ryker far prior to his one with Gheb was received (remember, J can't know it is coming), you are the only person who knows this.
If J is claiming that he accepted his contract with Gheb merely to gain leverage with Ryker, he is lying if he sent it in prior to accepting it.
Please do note quote things directly.
Ryker first referred to the PM at 2:37, so I am inclined to believe J is telling the truth here.
Regardless of the above, J...
Why did you actually think that would work?
J said:
The contract between you and Gheb is somewhat similar between the one between myself and him. He has talked to both of us about what he feels are weaknesses in our plays after games. It doesn't really do much of anything with regards to affecting my opinion. Intentions are null at best because there are ways it could go.
Personally, I am more looking at to how Gheb posts in the thread than the contracts that he has made.
And what, exactly, are your thoughts on his posts? Where are they?
J said:
I'm voting Circus because I dislike his slot the most out of everyone in the game thus far due to his major focus around the contracts surrounding myself/July/Gheb and not really the play thus far. There is also the major fact of him twisting words a bit in his posts with the major fact of him only looking for negatives in things instead of looking at all the sides of what could be happening.
The contracts surrounding you/July/Gheb ARE play this game.
J said:
I have a very very slight problem with OS so far. I haven't really seen much scum-hunting from him to be honest but moreso, just working around the mechanics of the game and most of his posts are just revolving around speculation. The difference between him and Circus is that he is focusing on more angles that just one angle like Circus in my eyes.
I would also like to see opinions on players from Raziek. I've seen him say he likes certain posts from certain people but not saying whether he likes the person posting it yet. I want to see stances.
I am also confused at Gheb's OMGUS vote on OS which is what it feels like to me based on events in the thread thus far.
I like how Swords is challenging people without being afraid to get his hands dirty which makes me comfortable with him thus far.
The rest I don't really have thoughts on yet.
I like all of the above, including the points on myself.
J, did you ever stop to think that your lack of emotion would result in you posting emotionally yet it not being as apparent? If you're frustrated town sending OMGUS at Circus, you don't look like it. You look like flailing scum.
J said:
Sure, that's fair. I just assumed you would have a few leans or things with the tone of your posts. You keep saiyng "I like X's post." but not referring what about those posts you like in depth or anything about what it makes ya feel for either their post or who they are referring to.
I.E. Let's take your most recent post: You say you like my post on Circus. Yet you don't say what about it you like nor do ya give me anything to work with on your opinion of Circus or myself haha
Like this too. More liking it because J isn't burying his head in the sand and focusing on Circus. Even if this is a scum-based distraction, it's better than the alternative for town.
