Liar Game Mafia | GAME OVER! Who won the 100 gazzillion yen?

[Circus]

I kind of tried to use this contract in order to help benefit me in another contract with Ryker but no dice.

J, how did you expect this to work? Like, what was the contract you offered to Ryker?

No one else gives a contract with a voting restriction of any sort without publicly announcing it beforehand and getting everyone's input. If she suddenly loses her vote, we know Gheb is scum and can lynch him; if he flips town, we know we can kill July. Or maybe the SK can do it for us.

You lost me with the bolded. It seems like you're saying Ghebtown necessitates Julyscum, but I don't see why.

 

[July]

You lost me with the bolded. It seems like you're saying Ghebtown necessitates Julyscum, but I don't see why.

I think I understand what he's saying. If I were to break my contract, it is up to Gheb to report it. If I break it and town comes to the agreement that Gheb should not report it, he needs to be committed to that. If I then say that despite Gheb saying he agreed to it, a voteblock was enforced on me anyways, then we lynch Gheb because he's going against town interests and town consensus. However, if that lynch results in a Gheb town flip, then it's less likely that town Gheb went against town opinion than that I'm scum and I lied about my voteblock to get Gheb lynched, and thus I would be lynched. At least that's the logic I saw behind it and that train of thought makes sense to me.

@J: What are your thoughts on the contract between Gheb and I and does it affect your opinion on your own contract or on Gheb's intentions with his contract?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

What Gheb is doing? Not playing as a team. Already made a contract, has a vote blocking punishment, tries to leave a backdoor to it (see below)? Not a team player. Not playing for town's best interest. Playing for Gheb's best interests.

One doesn't contradict the other. I can play for my best interests and the town's best interests at the same time because our alignments are the same. I realize town's benefit is more important than my own but as long as looking for my own benefit doesn't hurt the town I'm going to do that.

I realize that voteblocking July is in 99% of the cases is against the town's best interests.

You see the convos we're having with Gheb now? It's because he is asking forgiveness rather than asking permission and that is an inferior way to play with this lineup and these numbers.

That's not actually true. I'm not asking for forgiveness and I'm not asking for permission either. While I agree that playing "with the team", as you misleadingly put it, is benificial I still value my reads higher than that of others. If I were to voteblock Julyscum and you'd lynch me for "not following the instraction" the fault would still be on your side because it was your inability, not mine.

But don't take this as a provokation unless that's what you're looking for. Like I said, chances for me to actually voteblock July are already small enough - to a point where you can safely assume that I won't block her.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't doubt her ability to do that. Nor do I doubt J's ability to post straight. What is confusing to me is the intent behind making these arrangements in the first place. One of July's best traits, from my point of view, is how open and communicative she is. She doesn't always commit to strong stances right away, but I don't think that's a problem for her because she always gives reasons for reads, even when they're null. She's the last person on this playerlist that I would expect would need to be provoked into posting and sharing reads. From here, it looks like you just attached a potential voteblock to the way that she already tends to play. Basically, it's totally useless in the best case scenario, and it's actually really hurtful in the worst case scenario.

There's a difference between what one is saying and what one is posting. You can never trust what July is posting because she'll never quite let you know what she's actually saying. You think she's "open and communicative" but that exactly how she wins game as scum - by letting you think she's "open and communicative".

Really, this just confirms that July needs to post more and be open about her reads. You've already fallen for the same fallacy that like 5 towns did and let her get away with it. That's exactly what I'm trying to prevent.

Know-nothing townie J receives contract from Gheb (who he has absolutely no reason to trust) proposing that he fundamentally change the way he posts in order to allegedly be easier to read. The agreed upon punishment, should he fail to do this in some way, is that his posts get eaten by black text. His incentive for agreeing to this posting style change and the accompanying consequences for failing to abide to it is...essentially nothing. Why would J agree to this? It doesn't help him. It doesn't help town. And again, this is being submitted by a player that town J wouldn't know anything about. Nothing about that makes sense to me.

It hurts him only if he's scum.
It helps me whether he's scum or town.

Thinking out loud: I'm also confused about how text color changes even qualify as punishments since the mod can't enforce them. A modkill or mod vote would at least be distributed by the mod. And if someone's voteblocked, then the mod can account for that in the votecounts even if the voteblocked player tries to vote. What happens if J breaks contract and just doesn't start posting in black text? Is there a punishment for not following the punishment?

Good question. That's probably something the mod could answer better than anybody else.

I find this extremely unsettling. If she's town, we really, really need her to be able to vote. Otherwise, our only advantage—lynching power—falls out of our hands. I don't care how unlikely you think it is that the punishment won't be necessary (if you really feel that way, then why did you make it so harsh to begin with?). What you're telling me here is that you really have no concern for townies losing their votes. You know who's never concerned with townies losing their ability to vote? Scum.

OK, now I really start to feel how you're "twisting" things. If you really conclude that I don't care about the town's voting power then you're not looking at things objectively but just try to make me look like the bad guy in any case.

The way this conversation is going also feels like certain people - not just Circus - are trying to "trap" me. Whether I actually enforce the punishment @July or not has already stopped mattering as far as I can tell. From the moment the contract became public you've already decided that I have to be scum for it without considering any other option [this is only @Circus]. Being concerned is one thing - what you doing though, is starting to look like PF endgame where you're confusing "scum" with "the guy who doesn't do what I like".

Then I expect 3 separate cases from you by the end of the Day as well.

Peanuts.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

@mod

Can punishments be given in a fashion that wouldn't normally be under the player's control?

Send me a PM/Talk about it in-thread and go more in-depth about this. Too vague to give a straight answer.

Thinking out loud: I'm also confused about how text color changes even qualify as punishments since the mod can't enforce them. A modkill or mod vote would at least be distributed by the mod. And if someone's voteblocked, then the mod can account for that in the votecounts even if the voteblocked player tries to vote. What happens if J breaks contract and just doesn't start posting in black text? Is there a punishment for not following the punishment?

Yes there is. Depending on the scale and if it's repeated offending, I will punish in the form of mod-votes. Good point there, didn't jot that down.

9.5 hours until deadline of Day 0!
If Kuzinator has not replied by the time D1 started and I wake up, I will replace him out!​

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

v/la for the rest of the Day due to tourny.

 

[Raziek]

Ok. Time to sit down and read this stuff.

 

[Raziek]

Doesn't this basically describe the contract that you signed to a T though? Why did you sign it if this is how you feel? Do you think the one who proposed it to you is less likely to be town as a result?

I think you signed a really ****ty contract. That punishment doesn't just punish you; it punishes everyone trying to read you. Why the contract initiator decided your punishment should be something that makes your posts a pain in the *** to read when his or her goal is apparently to be able to read you better is beyond me if they're town. Also, your reward is not a reward at all.

But the big thing that bothers me about this is that, with a contract like this, you didn't have to accept the terms in order to get the fundamental use out of it. You could have declined the contract, but simply decided to naturally cut down on the AtE in general if you thought it was a resonable request. A "soft accept" of sorts. Then you wouldn't have to worry about the punishment, but you're still helping town read you better (allegedly). This is an option that I think we should remember we have for all contracts.

I don't like that contract and I want to know who submitted it to you. If you don't feel like telling (though we are agreeing to be open about these, are we not?), then at least rethink what the intent behind it might have been. Was it to get you to stop using emoticons and explaining emotions, or was it to get you posting in black text all game because the one who submitted the contract doesn't expect you to be able to follow that commitment?

This leads me to assume that your "Cut The AtE" contract is with Ryker.

This post by Circus gives me a very good feeling about him. Noting that J signed a contract that J himself agreed is anti-Town is an important distinction to make.

However, my thoughts on behavioral contracts are different from most, it seems. It's partially because it's a private, but I feel like being restricted in how often or the quality/size of your posts can be a really good thing to help us develop as players.

On that note, it's for that reason that I see pro-Town motives in Gheb contracting July to post less walls, and more often, but I think 3 cases was a bit much. That essentially gives her an out to make at least one sub-par case on someone just to avoid the punishment of the contract. That bothers me a bit.

While Circus is right that one could simply "cut down" of their own accord, seeing the contracts go virtually unused would be rather boring.

Continuing on.

 

[Raziek]

I can, and will, aid anyone of any alignment to kill you if it improves on town's chances. If I don't think you can follow simple instructions then I'm crossing my fingers every time any sort of plan or even aggressive questioning is set in motion. If that is the case, you are the weakest player in this game. This is not a game filled with easily led sheep, and everyone in here has proved themselves on more than one occasion. You must be able to trust other player's judgement and respond accordingly rather than try to be a one man show. If you don't, you're a drag on town. Given that it is just as likely that you are an SK or mafia at this time than anyone else and that if I have a large number of players able to affect my vote for the rest of the game they can't possibly all be anti-town, I have no issue using contracts that affect my choices to remove you and allow town to act as a cohesive unit.

I care very little about your excuses. Whether or not you believe that the way I approached it was more of a distraction than not is irrelevant; my approach may have actually been important regardless of how you viewed it. You can't possibly know, only guess. Within 2 minutes you did the exact opposite of what I requested for no reason other than I requested you not to do it. This is not town play, nor is it good team play.

Are you going to be a thorn Ryker? This is the situation I'm giving you. If you truly believe it is in town's best interest to have my vote and anyone else's vote I could get on you for the rest of the game until your death, then feel free to follow that path, but you know it isn't the best use of town's resources.

Play a team game, and follow instructions. From anyone that has any sort of request. There's a time and place to not follow a plan or follow instructions, but when you don't know the reasoning and it doesn't hurt to follow them and you break them anyway you're just being a child.

It was the equivalent of telling a child "Don't touch this button" and then watching them immediately touch it while staring you in the face.

While I agree with OS's last line on this matter, I think this is rather overkill, and while typical of Overswarm, being controlling to THIS extent is unhealthy for the dynamics of the game. What's the point of experimental setups if everyone has to go through "Master Overswarm" to do anything?

Even worse if he's scum, I feel like he's looking for a position where he can end up avoiding most contracts by "running them", so to speak.

This post is making a mountain out of a molehill, I don't understand why he expected to be able to control Ryker to begin with, OS knows better than that.

 

[Raziek]

It was really bad wording because I meant to say I do NOT find the anti-town thing of what Gheb is doing and which is why I did the exact thing and agreed to sign it. I just really messed up that wording there.

I signed it beacuse it is a challenge and it also provides me to not back out of it because usually when I go in saying, "Let's do this goal and see how it works." I usually fail. This time it's like when people do those silly new years resolutions by themselves, this time I have that huge *** trainer not letting me slack off.

Gheb wanted me to try something different so that I may help him out and I really don't see the negatives.

I really do not like your reaction to Gheb's contract on me and is extremely just negative towards it. I think you are over-reacting just a tad there Circus with what just happened.

And as much as it sucks to lose Ryker, good for Sang to get in. I'm a bit disappointed though to be honest.

Like this reasoning, as it echos most of what I was feeling two posts up.

 

[Overswarm]

I think I understand what he's saying. If I were to break my contract, it is up to Gheb to report it. If I break it and town comes to the agreement that Gheb should not report it, he needs to be committed to that. If I then say that despite Gheb saying he agreed to it, a voteblock was enforced on me anyways, then we lynch Gheb because he's going against town interests and town consensus. However, if that lynch results in a Gheb town flip, then it's less likely that town Gheb went against town opinion than that I'm scum and I lied about my voteblock to get Gheb lynched, and thus I would be lynched. At least that's the logic I saw behind it and that train of thought makes sense to me.

thumbs up . jpg

 

[Overswarm]

While I agree with OS's last line on this matter, I think this is rather overkill, and while typical of Overswarm, being controlling to THIS extent is unhealthy for the dynamics of the game. What's the point of experimental setups if everyone has to go through "Master Overswarm" to do anything?

Even worse if he's scum, I feel like he's looking for a position where he can end up avoiding most contracts by "running them", so to speak.

This post is making a mountain out of a molehill, I don't understand why he expected to be able to control Ryker to begin with, OS knows better than that.

Not "master Overswarm"; all of town. If I dislike something but the majority of town approves of it, it doesn't really matter what I think.

And Gheb, you still haven't answered my question. If it's the wrong answer, you're my D1 lynch and I won't take my vote off of you for the remainder of the day, and then the next day, and then the next until you're lynched. That kind of play can be squashed out now, or you can take us down a vortex. Your call.

You don't get to make an anti-town decision and then say "well I decided it because I think I'm right" as a defense. You **** up, you die.

 

[Raziek]

I might be able to buy that you legitimately think this way, but I still think the punishment is dumb. Even if I were to accept your premise that posting in harder to read text forces people to study you harder (I don't), how pervasive a problem do you expect skimming to be in a game with only 8 players? Especially when considering who those 8 players are?

There will always be skimming. Always. I'm gonna have to err on Gheb's side here in that I think it's more likely to make people read J more closely. Well, either read him close, or skim him entirely.

Your wording also reaffirms what I was suspecting—that the point, ultimately, is to get J to post in black text.

Rather than calling it a punishment, you call it a posting restriction. You say "once he starts posting in black" as if it is a foregone conclusion. Why didn't you just make the contract "post in black text for the rest of the game" if you really think it will be so helpful, and since it is apparently the ultimate point of the contract?

Hiring a personal trainer to keep your *** on a treadmill is one thing. Hiring someone to hook your nipple up to a car battery every time you reach for a glazed doughnut is another (colorful and extreme metaphor, but I'm sure you get what I mean). It is strange for me to think that you looked at that offer and really didn't decide to negotiate for something better. Even keeping the punishment, I would think you would at least want to negotiate for a more legitimate incentive for yourself. This is where I reiterate the fact that you really get nothing out of this "exchange."

You're making this out to be way worse than it is. Why making Gheb out to be a villain? Sure, he's acting in HIS interests, but there's certainly SOME pro-Town motive here, especially if J in fact DOES heed the contract and doesn't end up posting in black.

Are we going to make this a repeat of Majora's Mask mafia? That didn't work out well for your slot, if you recall. You know how I operate at this point, J. I don't believe you sincerely think there's a problem with how I reacted to you.

That sounds like a rather significant threat, Circus. Are you going to make something of this, or are you just being a bully??

 

[Raziek]

Not "master Overswarm"; all of town. If I dislike something but the majority of town approves of it, it doesn't really matter what I think.

That's fine then, I'm just wary of sheep (not that there are many in this game) being lead off a cliff.

Bad memories of Fire Emblem.

 

[Raziek]

Really like OS's 79.

OS, did you plan on giving a concise list of rules and clauses for contracts once D1 actually gets rolling? Having those all in one spot would be swell.

 

[Overswarm]

@ Kuz or Kuz's replacement

I have a task for you to do while you read through the thread, if you wouldn't mind. Would you be willing to keep track of all the "rules" we've discussed and that town seems to agree on and post a list for us? Gheb already confirmed we're in a majority in terms of keeping things open, so that's a start.

^@Raziek


2 steps ahead of you.



Serial Killer:


I have a deal for you. You openly claim on D2 and allow us to direct your night kill, and I'll give you a contract that controls my vote entirely for the rest of the game. The contract can't affect night actions, so we'd have to trust you, but we'd know when you broke it and would be able to lynch you afterwards.

Given the results of Night 1, this may or may not be in your best interests. Give it some thought.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Start of Day 1!​

You can now vote and all the good stuff.

also last minute happy b-day Gheb

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Voted |

Voter(s)​

|

Votes to lynch​

-​

|

-​

|

- / 5​

Not voting: Overswarm, th3kuzinator, Raziek, Gheb_01, Sworddancer., J, July, Circus

Voteblocked:

With 8 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline: Saturday March 10, 11:59 CET

 

[Overswarm]

Vote: Gheb

Happy birthday.

 

[July]

This post by Circus gives me a very good feeling about him. Noting that J signed a contract that J himself agreed is anti-Town is an important distinction to make.

However, my thoughts on behavioral contracts are different from most, it seems. It's partially because it's a private, but I feel like being restricted in how often or the quality/size of your posts can be a really good thing to help us develop as players.

On that note, it's for that reason that I see pro-Town motives in Gheb contracting July to post less walls, and more often, but I think 3 cases was a bit much. That essentially gives her an out to make at least one sub-par case on someone just to avoid the punishment of the contract. That bothers me a bit.

While Circus is right that one could simply "cut down" of their own accord, seeing the contracts go virtually unused would be rather boring.

Continuing on.

I agree that behavioral contracts can be used to help read people. However, I don't think behavioral contracts should be so altering to a person's playstyle that it will affect their content if they choose to agree to the contract. For example, J's proposed contract to Ryker which would have him stop posting insults; I honestly can't imagine him playing in such a way and if he had accepted the contract, I think it actually would have made it harder to read him and it would have affected the nature of his content which I don't think should be the goal. The goal should be to cut out behavioral ticks that detract from content/reading into intent and that's it.

Speaking of, @J: Did you propose your contract to Ryker before or after receiving/accepting your contract from Gheb?

Also, like I said to Circus before I realized how significant the effects of me being voteblocked toMorrow could be, I don't want to force a case, but if it comes down to it and I know I have to make a sub-par case or I don't fulfill my contract, then I'll be honest about it being a weak case. Hopefully that's not an issue though.

 

[Overswarm]

Also, like I said to Circus before I realized how significant the effects of me being voteblocked toMorrow could be, I don't want to force a case, but if it comes down to it and I know I have to make a sub-par case or I don't fulfill my contract, then I'll be honest about it being a weak case. Hopefully that's not an issue though.

Clarify, please.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

And Gheb, you still haven't answered my question.

Pretty sure I did, unless I missed something. You asked if I was willing to not report July breaking the contract if the majority is against it and I said I'm OK with it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Vote Overswarm

Some teamplayer.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

However, these mechanics means that modding this game will be a lot tighter. No more “vote kuz”, you have to state “Vote: th3Kuzinator”. I will be nitpicking everything, and following the rules is 100% necessary.

Come on, guys.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Vote: Overswarm

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I am force replacing th3kuzinator due to inactivity, and I've tried to contact some people for replacement.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Asdioh takes th3kuzinator's spot!

Thanks Asdioh.

 

[Asdioh]

Hey guys, glad I don't have to read Kuz's slot lolol

@ Kuz or Kuz's replacement

I have a task for you to do while you read through the thread, if you wouldn't mind. Would you be willing to keep track of all the "rules" we've discussed and that town seems to agree on and post a list for us? Gheb already confirmed we're in a majority in terms of keeping things open, so that's a start.

Up to here, and it's a little late for that but what I've gathered so far from this game:
-contracts can **** us over if it involves votelessness
-this game has a "strong roster" even though half the players replaced out or something
-we should be open with who we're making contracts with and what they are
-this game has a strong playerlist
-some people (OS) discouraged contracts in general, and some others feel the urge to make contracts (makes sense if that's the theme of the game)
-I want to make a contract with J that involves sandwiches
-did I mention how strong the players are?

 

[Overswarm]

I suggest you re-read what you just quoted and attempt to actually do that

 

[Asdioh]

:/ I was trying to take a break from mafia, but here I am again. I just finished reading... I was like "oh gee it's only 3 pages" but that was the most annoyingly wally first 3 pages of a game I've ever seen. I'll post more over the next 24 hours or so.

But seriously I couldn't count the number of times "strong playerlist" was emphasized

 

[Asdioh]

I don't think I missed much about the "rules" anyway. The key points I remember are be open about your contracts, try to go with what the majority wants, and be extra careful about voting restrictions since it's only an 8 player game. I don't think I missed anything important there.

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm back from my V/LA and so I will be catching up in this game first since it is the smallest haha.

Kuzi is gone but replaced with Asdioh? This player-list is still as fun as it began so I don't mind at all.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Hello Asdioh, welcome to the game.

Yeah, while you're catching up, I'm going to need you, to give me, an opinion on Gheeeeeb. It would be really good for my reads, and fffffff this game is kinda moving more slowly than I expected it to, so if you could just do that that would be great.

Spoiler

 

[#HBC | J]

So many walls and so much love at this moment. The plethora of info already is so cool to have, but at the same time I'm skeptical to anything concrete because as it has been brought to light by Asdioh, this game has the most intimidating player-list probably ever on DGames in the longest time. I'm curious to see who out of this cast leaves us first.

To the real stuff surrounding myself since I have a lot of stuff poised to me.

Hiring a personal trainer to keep your *** on a treadmill is one thing. Hiring someone to hook your nipple up to a car battery every time you reach for a glazed doughnut is another (colorful and extreme metaphor, but I'm sure you get what I mean). It is strange for me to think that you looked at that offer and really didn't decide to negotiate for something better. Even keeping the punishment, I would think you would at least want to negotiate for a more legitimate incentive for yourself. This is where I reiterate the fact that you really get nothing out of this "exchange."

That's a painful other metaphor and definitely got your metaphor. (Btw, was that a Dodgeball Movie reference?)

I get nothing? That is not true at all Circus and I don't get why you are looking at this through only one perspective. There was stuff I got out of it and I have said why so I don't really plan to re-iterate myself but to summarize it, I am doing this to help people read me better and also to help better myself as a player.

You keep acting like this is the biggest problem in the world that I accepted Gheb's contract on me but I have yet to see much "negative" aspects about it besides that it will cause people to have to highlight my posts when they read them.

I have an honest question for you Circus, do you think a posting color change to black will honestly keep me quiet/not a presence in the game? Plus so far, I'm good with this restrction so far with emotion so who's to say I'm going to fail?

There is something I have been noticing so far with this game so far Circus is that you are just focusing on others contracts on one another and not really about scum-hunting on the slots themselves. Sure, you can say that you are making your way to finding scum-reads through pursuing Gheb on his contracts but you aren't really being fair with your pursuit but moreso just honing in on one fact of what he has done that is "You can't have possibly been trying to limit J/July to be able to read them." or "You have nothing to gain from accepting the contract." If July/Myself thought the contracts didn't help us at all, we would not have accepted them. That's the bottom line.

Also, J, you seem to have a pretty good handle on what it is Gheb wants from you. Am I correct in assuming that you are not suspicious of his motives? You apparently didn't question them at all when you signed the contract, and when I asked you to think about it, it seems like you didn't even bother entertaining the thought.

You are not correct, in the slightest sense of the word. Yes, I accepted the contract but that doesn't mean I am just going to assume he naturally had the best interests at heart. It's incredibly naive to think as such. At the current time, I seemed to see the pros much moreso than the negatives. Gheb could be scum giving himself a reason to limit myself and July, sure. However, there is no evidence to suggest as such. There is no evidence to suggest the positive either so I went with what do I gain out of this agreement and I liked what I got so I agreed.

You asked a question on Raz, from the beginning he was coming off care-free and now he is begginning to stick his neck out more against certain things. Still null and TBH, I probably am going to be leaning null on a lot of people during this first day phase with purely going off of vibes since this is just going to be a challenge to acquire a read on anyone that is super strong.

J, I'm confused, what was it about Ryker's "mean-spited" play that hindered you from getting a read on him?

Ryker normally just plays with that mean-spirited attitude regardless of alignment and I usually have a hard time differentiating his motives when he is town or scum and usually think of him as someone who is better off gone earlier so it makes for a better/easier to read LyLo/MyLo for me. It's kind of like Gheb's thing about my emotion where he believes I would be better without it, I feel the same way for Ryker about his anger issues.

Plus, it just always puts a damper on games and I would like to see if he would try it. We know where that went haha.

The contract you sent to J is more understandable to me; what bothers me about it is why J agreed to it in its current form. I'm expected to believe the following scenario occurred:

Know-nothing townie J receives contract from Gheb (who he has absolutely no reason to trust) proposing that he fundamentally change the way he posts in order to allegedly be easier to read. The agreed upon punishment, should he fail to do this in some way, is that his posts get eaten by black text. His incentive for agreeing to this posting style change and the accompanying consequences for failing to abide to it is...essentially nothing. Why would J agree to this? It doesn't help him. It doesn't help town. And again, this is being submitted by a player that town J wouldn't know anything about. Nothing about that makes sense to me.

Circus, I have no reason to trust anyone so what makes Gheb so much different? You act that I am just throwing myself at Gheb because of the contract he made with me. There is the same thing of you saying "essentially nothing" which I have delved into above. It does help me. It can help town. Quit looking at things through one side of the spectrum please.

J, how did you expect this to work? Like, what was the contract you offered to Ryker?

I was going to use the contract I already accepted to try and use it to gain me moreso to make a contract with Ryker because he dislikes my emoticon usage. So since I thought if I gave up my emoticons, we could trade off and he could give up his use of the emotion anger/agression.

@J: What are your thoughts on the contract between Gheb and I and does it affect your opinion on your own contract or on Gheb's intentions with his contract?

The contract between you and Gheb is somewhat similar between the one between myself and him. He has talked to both of us about what he feels are weaknesses in our plays after games. It doesn't really do much of anything with regards to affecting my opinion. Intentions are null at best because there are ways it could go.

Personally, I am more looking at to how Gheb posts in the thread than the contracts that he has made.

There's a difference between what one is saying and what one is posting. You can never trust what July is posting because she'll never quite let you know what she's actually saying. You think she's "open and communicative" but that exactly how she wins game as scum - by letting you think she's "open and communicative".

Really, this just confirms that July needs to post more and be open about her reads. You've already fallen for the same fallacy that like 5 towns did and let her get away with it. That's exactly what I'm trying to prevent.

This is really true about July, @Circus. July really has blinded me in the past because I thought she was being "open and communicative" but in the end she was being a treacherous witch of manipulation behind her walls. I think you are underestimating her ability to trick people.

However, my thoughts on behavioral contracts are different from most, it seems. It's partially because it's a private, but I feel like being restricted in how often or the quality/size of your posts can be a really good thing to help us develop as players.

This is a REALLY REALLY good point and I agree so much with the mind-set it is scary.

@J: Did you propose your contract to Ryker before or after receiving/accepting your contract from Gheb?

Afterwards, because Gheb gave me the idea after he set up the contract with me.

-I want to make a contract with J that involves sandwiches

Denied already haha.

 

[#HBC | J]

Vote: Circus

I'm voting Circus because I dislike his slot the most out of everyone in the game thus far due to his major focus around the contracts surrounding myself/July/Gheb and not really the play thus far. There is also the major fact of him twisting words a bit in his posts with the major fact of him only looking for negatives in things instead of looking at all the sides of what could be happening.

 

[#HBC | J]

I kind of wanna apologize because I feel my posts lack any kind of emotion I feel like such a ******* haha but yeah please forgive me if I am coming off in a not nice way.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Since she agreed to the contract so quickly I'm most likely willing to do that, unless I have reasons to believe she's actually scum. One of the things that make contracts really interesting in regards to reads is the fact that the mere choice of agreement [or not] by your counterpart can already tell you things. I'm not even gonna lie, the punishment in my contract is rather harsh and the fact that she was willing to risk her vote toMorrow to cooperate is a positive sign to me.



1.) It gives me a good feeling on how much she's willing to cooperate considering she accepted it right away with minimal changes to it.
2.) Because it's convenient to have in the event that I'm convinced she's scum.
3.) In the end, it was her choice to agree with the contract so she must've known what she was agreeing to. More likely than not, I wouldn't have held it against her had she not accepted it anyway.

I fail to see how point one correspondence with giving her a harsh punishment. Also, points 1 and 3 semi-contradict each other.

Point 2 is too convenient for my tastes.

You can consider it weak if you think it's weak. I don't think it is.

So you really think your arbitrary standard of play justifies potentially ****ing town over?

---

OS, I wasn't agreeing with you. I was more so simply looking for clarification as to what you meant when you said "play as a team."

Ultimately your big post boils down to "be open with your actions" and "don't do rash things on your own." I can agree with this. That said, I don't really see how this relates to what Ryker did. Sure he deliberately didn't follow directions just because he didn't see the need to, but I feel like threatening to lynch him over such a small incident is blowing it out of proportion.

Btw, I offered you an amendment on our contract, but you never followed up and it has expired. If I offer you another contract (same deal, but I'll throw in the same deal that J got with me only being able to hammer you), would you accept that?

 

[#HBC | J]

I have a very very slight problem with OS so far. I haven't really seen much scum-hunting from him to be honest but moreso, just working around the mechanics of the game and most of his posts are just revolving around speculation. The difference between him and Circus is that he is focusing on more angles that just one angle like Circus in my eyes.

I would also like to see opinions on players from Raziek. I've seen him say he likes certain posts from certain people but not saying whether he likes the person posting it yet. I want to see stances.

I am also confused at Gheb's OMGUS vote on OS which is what it feels like to me based on events in the thread thus far.

I like how Swords is challenging people without being afraid to get his hands dirty which makes me comfortable with him thus far.

The rest I don't really have thoughts on yet.

 

[Raziek]

Very much agreeing with J's 114 WRT Circus.

Sworddancer, are you willing to share details of your proposed contract with OS at this time?

 

[Raziek]

Get Ninjad me.

Might I ask for some more time on that, J? I'd like to see a few of my nulls pan out before I start plunking reads down.