Liar Game Mafia | GAME OVER! Who won the 100 gazzillion yen?

[Overswarm]

I was town and considered town enough that the SK didn't kill me for fear of implicating himself since he was also considered town, and managed to get a town win from a 2 town / 1 mafia / 1 SK lylo by using contracts, I think that's a pretty big part. :B

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Of winning the game, not of me getting myself modkilled.

If that was the case I would've just play games that you're not in but I'm not joining any new games at all fyi

 

[Overswarm]

Like I said, salty.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Like I said, hopeless.

 

[Axel]

​

Asdioh was your periodless vote on Sword intentional?

 

[Asdioh]

no.. .

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

It's kind of funny.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14144249&postcount=21

I had Ryker in a position where I could have confirmed him as the SK at that moment

and then he posts this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14144261&postcount=22

which prevented me from finding his alignment with some contract shenanigans


was sooooo salty, was so ready to get his slot lynched... then he replaced out. Game would have been way different with no SK.

I couldn't do it. I had a limit on the amount of games I can play and I wasn't interested in this one, to be quite honest. I had Tactics, Gigabots, Shining Force, and another game on the horizon that was canceled. I warned Xonar it might happen.

How would you have trapped me? I broke the set-up three times pre-game as well, which did not bode well for me as indy at all. My initial plan was to challenge you on everything even if I couldn't really go against a well-formatted and rational plan if it was laid out before me, I could screw with you whenever given an opportunity. I was going to shoot at you every single night until it worked as well. There was no one on the player list that I was really worried about on that level. I wouldn't be worried about you on that level if this game wasn't right up your alley?

But all that would take waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much commitment when I was rereading Tactics over and over while driving Gigabots and pulling strings from the back of Shining Force.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Sorry Asdioh. Sorry Raziek.

As I explained earlier I literally didn't have access to a computer or internet for a 3 day span over which I was threatened to be force replaced. Still should have been present earlier in the game.

Good stuff OS for playing like you mean it. Refreshing.

 

[Overswarm]

I find it difficult to put forth my full effort in town games. I'm mentally fine with dying, and because of this I don't actively attempt to defend myself. On top of that, unless I have a PR I know I can't be 100% correct in my reads, so I know my actions can result in town losing. I find it easier to let other people do it and just catch the inconsistencies; only issue is that that only works when you know the players because not everyone is logical and people make mistakes. I just happened to know everyone this game and it had a bit more structure than normal mafia, so it fit my bill.

 

[Asdioh]

kuz could you have won it? D:
i tried to distance from raziek but he was like, not here and then he died lolol

 

[Overswarm]

mafia's best strategy in this game would have been to buddy up with a random townie and hope they were the SK.

With 8 players and 2 mafia, that leaves 6 players to choose from. With each of you choosing a townie, that's a 2/6 chance you'd be buddying with the SK. Not bad odds. As long as you two were not killing each other, it maximizes your chances of persuading the lynch since you can both attempt to convince your teammates to go one direction over another by having your scummate buddy with your town teammate, thus giving a two man mafia group a three man swing. If you really are buddy buddy with your teammates, potentially a 4 vote swing. By Day 2 mafia can pick and choose who lynches and, since they have the best chance of killing the SK, a decent chance of winning. Unless both of your town buddies were going towards mafia, which shouldn't happen if your play your cards right. It gets easier if you are buddy/buddy with the SK, because he'd presumably not want to kill someone who thought he was a golden boy. This allows one of your alignment to live until lylo, and then you can lynch him without much resistance if you've got a good read.

 

[Overswarm]

so how was mafia to win other than doing what I did if one of their teammates died?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't think this set-up works with the contracts. Either change what contracts can do, try it with a different set-up or both.

And next time please don't shit in my face for trying to play this game the way it was meant to be played. Why do you join an experimental game when you shut down any attempt to see how it actually works out [which was the whole point of the game]. If you don't wanna play with me then just tell me to replace out or something rather than just **** me up on principle. Anyway, don't expect to see me playing mafia with you guys in a while.

 

[Overswarm]

Play the way it was meant to be played? You just played it poorly. All of your contract attempts just lessened town's chances to win; the only acceptable contracts are the ones that grant a mathematical certainty, like those allowing a 2 man Day phase to occur. If we hadn't had those contracts, Asdioh and I would have been in the end game together, neither of us being able to lynch. That's a good contract. Potentially voteblocking a person for a 6 person day phase is not a good contract.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

In hindsight, I would've liked to implement Overswarm's idea of the SK being able to break contracts.

 

[Overswarm]

or making mafia have the ability to break contracts, the SK able to kill, and town have a numbers advantage. Town really needed one more player though, this game was stacked vs. town.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The problem is that threre shouldn't be the possibility to make these kind of contracts imho. Like, if they accept the contract they're ****ed as mafia because of numbers / set-up shenanigans and if they don't accept it they're ****ed as mafia because as town they have no reason to not accept it. Of course it's "good" use of the contracts but the only reason it could've happened that way was because the system around it didn't work well with the idea of contracts. More experimenting with the set-up and the nature of contracts should be done ... unless you think that being able to trap a scumbag in lylo with no escape is a good thing.

Certain factions being able to break contract is surely an idea worth thinking about.

 

[Overswarm]

Gheb, if I was mafia I would have won.

If Asdioh had been able to convince town he was the most townie, he would have won.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

That doesn't mean that a situation like that couldn't occur at all, which is what I meant. In this particular case it worked out because of actual gameplay but I'm pretty sure it's possible for a situation to occur where it could be done just via contracts. I think that's something that should be avoided.

 

[Overswarm]

That's the mafia's disadvantage. Their advantage is that they are 2 vs. several 1's.

I would have won this game as any alignment given who the game ended. Asdioh would have won as the SK.

If the SK doesn't kill mafia members, mafia has the greatest chance to win this game on pure odds; the SK has a 2/7 chance of killing a mafia on pure chance, but mafia has ways of making them not obvious kill targets.

Town had a hell of a time winning this game after you made yourself look like obv scum D1, and lots of inactivity Day 2 followed by a mislynch of the one guy we can use to determine an inno. The only way we really could have won was with raziek dying from sworddancer. Razor thin margins here.

 

[zapp brannigan]

Play the way it was meant to be played? You just played it poorly. All of your contract attempts just lessened town's chances to win; the only acceptable contracts are the ones that grant a mathematical certainty, like those allowing a 2 man Day phase to occur. If we hadn't had those contracts, Asdioh and I would have been in the end game together, neither of us being able to lynch. That's a good contract. Potentially voteblocking a person for a 6 person day phase is not a good contract.

Doesnt it depend on the purpose of the game? A lulzy contract is fine by me if it doesnt hinder me from winning.

 

[Overswarm]

It's a distraction and doesn't help to win. There's no reason for it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Trying it out is good enough a reason.

Unfortunately people confuse "checking the boudaries of what's possible / ideal" with a horrible, inexcuseable, unforgiveable sin that anybody has to punish in the most unreasonable, dreadful manner to make sure this new method of playing the game is as unfun to play as possible.

 

[Overswarm]

Trying it out is good enough a reason.

Unfortunately people confuse "checking the boudaries of what's possible / ideal" with a horrible, inexcuseable, unforgiveable sin that anybody has to punish in the most unreasonable, dreadful manner to make sure this new method of playing the game is as unfun to play as possible.

I could just join every game and say "everyone votes for who I say and when I say it or I modkill myself and end the day". That'd be fun. Not effective, but fun either way. Would especially be fun after the second or third game.

A bad idea is a bad idea. You weren't "checking the boundaries", you were acting without thinking. It should be noted that the entire game just went "..buh?" at you, and you gave the Serial Killer a really easy opening to push for because, ya know, everyone had to ask themselves "is Gheb dumb or scum".

Playing inefficiently can be fun, and it'd be awesome to play mafia with a dartboard, but when it comes down to it there are certain things that are good and certain things that are bad. When it comes to a game with margins as thin as this, taking away someone's vote just to "see what happens" is short sighted at best.

If the SK could have gotten even one person vote blocked this game, it's a huge, huge swing.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Which justifies the whole roster pissing and shitting into my face.

It all adds up now

 

[Overswarm]

How can you not realize you did something wrong when Asdioh got less **** for claiming mafia?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The contract flavor needs a way to be forced or people are just going to ignore it unless they think someone is scum and want to force their hand.

 

[Circus]

Gheb, I would feel more sympathy for you if you didn't act like this every time you get into a minor conflict with someone. It's bad enough that you killed yourself half through Day 1 with only about half the votes needed to lynch you (especially in a game that throws town on a tightrope pretty much right out the gate), but the fact that you're still bitter about the situation all this time later is just not cute. We thought you were scummy; we were wrong. It happens. Like, that's the freaking game. Part of being a good or even mediocre player is dealing with things like that responsibly. I know it's frustrating; I get accused of scummy behavior all the time for reasons that I think are bull****, and I don't always handle it in the best way (this game right here is a pretty good example of that). But you don't screw your faction over by getting yourself modkilled just because you're a little frustrated. If you really can't even stand to continue playing the game, then the appropriate response is to ask for a replacement.

I'm not even getting into the issue of whether our suspicion of you was warranted or not. Clearly you think you were wrongly ganged up on, and that's fine. But dwelling on the issue this long after it's conclusion is just unhealthy.

Changing gears completely, thanks for hosting a neat game, Xonar. I enjoyed myself, for the most part. Some personal stuff kind of took me out of the game during N2, but it was a cool concept and I'm glad I got to be apart of it. Wish I had played better.

 

[giraffelasergun]

In hindsight, I would've liked to implement Overswarm's idea of the SK being able to break contracts.

fukunaga for sk?

 

[Asdioh]

so was my gambit reasonable, given my position?

 

[Overswarm]

If you would win on ties, yes. If you wouldn't, no.

 

[Asdioh]

that's too bad. the way OS used contracts made it hard to win this after my partner died n1. i had to convince everyone that *I* had to be THE last person standing, which wasn't going to happen with how much more effort OS was obviously putting into the game than me lol

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Talked with Zen.

MVP: Overswarm

While it may have been an exploitation of mechanics that led him to win the game for town, town probably wouldn't have won without him. Both Sworddancer and Asdioh were in great positions and town was extra ****ed because of Gheb suiciding. Even then, Overswarm pulled through. He won the game pretty handily for town.

 

[Overswarm]

What exploit? I followed the rules =P

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ehhhhh what? OS had ONE lynch correct and gets MvP? For making correct use of a contract once? I know it sounds super-salty but that's not MvP material =/

 

[Asdioh]

How was I in a great position when my partner died N1?

 

[I am Zim!]

LVP: Gheb

@Asdioh, your gambit put you in a good position. The only person who still managed to push you slightly after it was Circus. I think that if you built up on your play after the gambit you had the potential to win the game. Even If sword ultimately claimed, I think it was possible for you to obtain the position OS obtained for himself had you played more proactive. OS put so much effort into the game that people gave him the last-spot position just because they felt he deserved it regardless of alignment. At least Sword and Circus did.

 

[Vlade]

Extremely interesting game to read, and an extremely interesting and creative mechanic. Also Liar Game is amazing.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

I'm impulsive, didn't feel like fighting OS, and . . .

[4/5/2012 4:56:39 PM] Shinobu W.: man sword
[4/5/2012 4:56:43 PM] Shinobu W.: you wouldve won if you didnt claim you know that
[4/5/2012 4:57:44 PM] Shinobu W.: yeah but even then i think vega can do a shoryuken to get out of it
[4/5/2012 4:57:59 PM] Shinobu W.: ****
[4/5/2012 6:56:05 PM] Sworddancer: yeah probably
[4/5/2012 6:56:29 PM] Sworddancer: winning would require effort, which I would much rather put into ToV
[4/5/2012 6:56:37 PM] Sworddancer: just recently got the game
[4/5/2012 6:56:43 PM] Sworddancer: it's pretty damn fun
[4/5/2012 6:56:57 PM] Sworddancer: I've been negleting
EVERYTHING else in life to play it
[4/5/2012 6:57:08 PM] Shinobu W.: spoken like a true nerd

 

[Overswarm]

I think the only person who couldn't have survived at the end was Circus.

I was sure that Sworddancer was the serial killer, and out of Asdioh/Circus I saw Circus as more mafia.

The game would have come down to who people thought was the SK, me or Sworddancer. Asdioh was probably in the best position to win; if we had argued back and forth about which one of us was the SK and both said "Circus mafia", Asdioh could have been the guy to land in the last spot for the contracts.

Then it would have been decided between a sworddancer/overswarm lynch. Hopefully it would have been sworddancer, and after there'd be a 3-man lylo between me, circus, and asdioh, and I would not have allowed myself to not be the last person living in that scenario. It would have come down to me thinking circus mafia, and circus deciding if I was mafia or asdioh mafia. I don't think asdioh would have goofed up at this point; he'd let me and circus go at each other all day with little to no comment, imo.