Let's talk about L-Canceling.

[Master Knight DH]

So just because there are a few people who either don't know or don't care about l canceling it should be off limits to everybody?
What if those "few" people have, in actuality, more extensive knowledge of how any character as well as the game in general works?

If you are aware of the advantages lcancel would provide, but choose not to implement it in your game you DESERVE to lose to they guy who cared enough to practice.
Uh, no, the guy with L-Cancelling is abusing an advantage that hurts the game's balance. If they have to overcome less and win because of that, that goes against the point of genuinely proving skill.

It's the same as it was during melee's time in mlg, casuals demand to be on the same level but refuse to take the nessessary steps.
The necessary steps should not **** on anybody for failing to meet an absurd speed requirement. Doing so is shallow.

They expect the game designers to make it even.
As they should?

With brawl, they didn't elevate the casuals, they limited the hard core and brought them down.
I will not argue that Brawl could have stood to have fewer speed issues, but a game should not punish players for being genuinely creative.

Is that what's fair? I don't think so.
What isn't fair is that you're punished for trying to be genuinely creative.

It wasn't a bunch of glitches that separated the casual/hardcore.
Yes it was.

The competitive players had drive and a desire to be the best. They use whatever they can.
That does not make you good. That makes you inept.

An even playing field is not an achieveable goal in a fighting game.
You realize that fighting game fanbases get accused of having immature people, right? And the accusations are FAR from baseless...

Making it so that a dude who just mashes buttons is a threat to serious competitor is not worthwhile goal in the first place.
No, somebody who is creative SHOULD be able to be threatening, not somebody who just mashes buttons.

Good. GOD! Well, you're deconstructed now.

 

[Gea]

Your post is a joke, right? Or are you really so ignorant that someone has to teach you why L-canceling is not a glitch, why it helped moveset variety and allowed players to be more varied ("creative") with how they space their aerials than Brawl allows to, and why the notion of a player knowing the game intimately but somehow not knowing an important technique within the game is a silly reason to remove said technique.

I mean let's be honest, Smash 64 with all of it's lag canceling allowed the most diverse use of aerial spacing/variety because there was a flat penalty for any aerial and it was basically nothing. Melee sought some defensive balance to this and L-canceling was programming to only remove half of the landing lag from an aerial. What this means is that one must be more selective about aerial usage and the shield functions properly to negate some aerial usage. Brawl takes it a whopping step further and says you have to have the aerial finish at a certain time or whoops you get varying amounts of lag, giving certain characters a huge advantage over others in aerial viability. Furthermore aerial usage is far more limited in terms of spacing and what aerials are viable. While it does somewhat come down to preference as to what the sweet spot is, L-canceling doesn't hamper "creativity," it allows it. Options are creativity.

Edit: I'd like to point out that the general consensus for balance between the games goes 64 > Melee > Brawl. There are many factors to this, but how aerials are handled in all three of the games is a huge influence.

It really comes down to if L-canceling stays gone, will aerials have so little lag as to be used in more ways safely than Brawl allowed.

I do have two questions for you. What, praytell, is a glitch in Melee that separates players, and why do you think L-canceling hurts the game's balance? Also, you really come off as being not very well versed in Melee. Might I suggest trying to learn and understand these advanced techniques before discussing them?

 

[Kink-Link5]

Combos in BlazBlue are a glitch and anyone who abuses them is a part of the problem that causes casuals to split from the community. This glitchy moves-linking-into-one-another thing is bad for gameplay, and if it is going to exist, it shouldn't require an arbitrary input like "A A, 2B, C, 6B~C, [D], [2D], J.B, J.C~C, D, J.263C~C" They should just happen by themselves every time you get a hit because there's no reason to want less than optimal damage.

Discuss?

 

[Master Knight DH]

Your post is a joke, right?
Excuse me?

Or are you really so ignorant that someone has to teach you why L-canceling is not a glitch,
You're right about one thing: it's not a glitch. It was an exploit that was removed from Brawl for valid reason.

why it helped moveset variety and allowed players to be more varied ("creative")
With shortcuts?

with how they space their aerials than Brawl allows to,
Here's something else that requires spacing: SPACING. Do better than this if you don't believe me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fPpQwQ82VY
Let me know when you can come close to that. And I want to see you stream it too.

and why the notion of a player knowing the game intimately but somehow not knowing an important technique within the game is a silly reason to remove said technique.
You mean an "important" technique that removes a weakness that is supposed to be there?

I mean let's be honest, Smash 64 with all of it's lag canceling allowed the most diverse use of aerial spacing/variety because there was a flat penalty for any aerial and it was basically nothing.
Thus giving the final advantage to speedsters, because you lost whenever you got hit.

Melee sought some defensive balance to this and L-canceling was programming to only remove half of the landing lag from an aerial.
I'd rather have better strengths than nerfed weaknesses on my power guys, thank you very much. More variety.

What this means is that one must be more selective about aerial usage and the shield functions properly to negate some aerial usage.
I'd rather have that.

Brawl takes it a whopping step further and says you have to have the aerial finish at a certain time or whoops you get varying amounts of lag, giving certain characters a huge advantage over others in aerial viability.
It would have killed the developers to add something like aerial smashes?

Furthermore aerial usage is far more limited in terms of spacing and what aerials are viable.
Now that I WILL agree with. Brawl simply takes things too far.

While it does somewhat come down to preference as to what the sweet spot is, L-canceling doesn't hamper "creativity," it allows it.
Not when it gimps creative players who actually can keep up with things.

Options are creativity.
No, being able to make use of your options is creativity. And I'm aware of the irony of wanting aerial smashes.

Edit: I'd like to point out that the general consensus for balance between the games goes 64 > Melee > Brawl.
Since when was 64 balanced? Being killed just because you get hit encourages no worthwhile variety.

There are many factors to this, but how aerials are handled in all three of the games is a huge influence.
More like how much you get punished for getting hit.

It really comes down to if L-canceling stays gone, will aerials have so little lag as to be used in more ways safely than Brawl allowed.
What I'd rather have is aerials be more sensitive to weight without making extra defensive power redundant. They would still work as hit-and-run tools, but they would no longer be able to be centralizing.

I do have two questions for you.
Bring it on.

What, praytell, is a glitch in Melee that separates players, and why do you think L-canceling hurts the game's balance?
Because it favors speedsters. Something that favors a body advantage is something that should be checked against at the very least.

Also, you really come off as being not very well versed in Melee.
Somebody has not watched my 15 Minute Melee videos whatsoever.

Might I suggest trying to learn and understand these advanced techniques before discussing them?
Oh, you mean the "advanced" techniques I tore at on deviantArt?

Really. Really. Deconstructed.

 

[Gea]

You mean these videos? They don't exactly show you to have a great understanding of techskill or efficiency. Is there one in particular I am supposed to be looking at?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

L-canceling is an exploit?

Really?

Smooth Criminal

 

[Gea]

You also never told me what glitches people abuse in Melee.

 

[Master Knight DH]

You mean these videos? They don't exactly show you to have a great understanding of techskill
Since you want to have it your way, I'll say this: I did not realize that I was unaware of L-Cancelling's existence when I first made ANY of the 15 Minute Melee videos. Let alone that apparently Ganondorf is too slow without it.

or efficiency.
Are you saying that because you are the one who sucks? And you can only prove otherwise by streaming my challenge. You have Melee for God's sake, which nulls the same excuse the Kid Icarus Uprising board members pulled for declining my challenges toward them.

Is there one in particular I am supposed to be looking at?
How about all of them?

You're making this too easy, bub.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

You're making this too easy, bub.

You've done nothing whatsoever to dismantle his argument, DH. The proof is still on you to show that you understand the nuances of tech-skill and its application, and you clearly don't.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Gea]

You do realize there is plenty more to tech-skill than just L-canceling, right? And you're inefficient because you're just plain slow. You can take that comment any way you want to. Stadium mode isn't about diversity for a high score (look at WR videos), so varying moveset is pointless. If you want to take it more about your movements in regards to the game as a whole, you do lots of standing around, slowly jumping onto platforms, not canceling your lag, not fastfalling, nothing that is even remotely efficient. I could dig up a video years old of me wavelanding and doing properly L-canceled aerials around a stage for you, but that doesn't facilitate discussion. I'm not the one who doesn't seem to understand how Melee works. So please, once again. Tell me about these glitches that are abused.

 

[Master Knight DH]

You do realize there is plenty more to tech-skill than just L-canceling, right?
Might as well say that Days of Ruin's CO unit had skill involved and Battalion Wars' manual unit didn't.

And you're inefficient because you're just plain slow.
Sorry, but I'm not slow, and you claiming I am as a possibly valid point only proves you shallow. Stream my challenge or prove my point. Your choice.

I could dig up a video years old of me wavelanding and doing properly L-canceled aerials around a stage for you, but that doesn't facilitate discussion.
This from the jerk who decided to call me slow as a possibly valid point.

I'm not the one who doesn't seem to understand how Melee works.
You didn't watch the video, clearly. Fail.

Again:

STREAM 15 MINUTE MELEE NOW OR PROVE MY POINTS! Your choice. If you refuse to stream like I tell you do, my points stand with ease against your darwinistic "you are slow" garbage, end of discussion.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

You do realize there is plenty more to tech-skill than just L-canceling, right? And you're inefficient because you're just plain slow. You can take that comment any way you want to. Stadium mode isn't about diversity for a high score (look at WR videos), so varying moveset is pointless. If you want to take it more about your movements in regards to the game as a whole, you do lots of standing around, slowly jumping onto platforms, not canceling your lag, not fastfalling, nothing that is even remotely efficient. I could dig up a video years old of me wavelanding and doing properly L-canceled aerials around a stage for you, but that doesn't facilitate discussion. I'm not the one who doesn't seem to understand how Melee works. So please, once again. Tell me about these glitches that are abused.

Just in case you missed it, DH.

Also, quite acting butthurt over somebody challenging your prowess. Gea doesn't have to prove jack **** to you on a livestream. He also doesn't have to be better than you to point out the differences between somebody who plays at a high level versus somebody who doesn't. Or, in this case, somebody who knows the game better at a certain level/methodology versus somebody who doesn't.

Smooth Criminal

 

[I R MarF]

L-Cancelling is NOT its own entity, it is actually PART of the execution of an aerial. You are rewarded for succeeding with good execution and not rewarded for failing.

The main argument against L-Cancelling is that it has no "risks" and there is no reason "not to do it". Well that is like saying aerials have no "risks" and there is no reason "not to perform them". L-Cancelling is not like fast falling where it is a mobility option which has its own context; L-Cancelling is wholly tied to the execution of aerials. It is in the same league as pressing A/C-Stick.

Would you say that the CORRECT Wavedash input is stupid and there is no reason not to do it? Of course not. Because there is no reason not to EXECUTE an input correctly. The mix-ups are a result of how and when you use that option, not the buttons pressed while performing it.

Tl;DR Saying L-Cancelling is stupid because it has no mix-ups is like saying the QCF input-motion is stupid because it has no mix-ups. Execution=/=option

 

[Master Knight DH]

Okay, I'll do that, and you will claim my middle name ought to be "welcome."

No, really, you get contested for acting like a darwinistic punk.[/B]

Gea doesn't have to prove jack **** to you on a livestream.
He does when he wants to ignore my points and instead insult my ability.

He also doesn't have to be better than you to point out the differences between somebody who plays at a high level versus somebody who doesn't.
I don't claim to be the best player out there, but that does not make my points invalid. Especially by that dumb logic.

Or, in this case, somebody who knows the game better at a certain level/methodology versus somebody who doesn't.
Yeah, HIS knowledge is totally going to carry him when he's ignoring deliberate weaknesses and not developing skills that could be useful for games or even jobs where that simply won't work.

Deconstructed yet again.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I'd like to respond to Master Knight DH's posts by quoting but this happens every time I try :C

Deconstructed yet again.

Oh wait I get it, that's the whole point.

Deconstructed yet again.

30% of Autism Diagnoses are premature, you know?

 

[Gea]

Okay look it is obvious we need to back up a minute. I'm not, nor was I ever trying to insult you. What I'm saying is you don't seem to have a firm grasp on Melee's inner workings. I'd rather open up proper dialog about what you think/understand and discuss that rather than be pointed to a video that supposedly proves what you know when instead it just makes you look worse.

The only reason I'm even challenging your knowledge in the first place is because you throw around words like "abuse," "glitches," and "balance" in regards to L-canceling and other advanced techniques with a negative connotation, as if your belief is that creator intention is more important than the reality of the game.

So yes, I'm going to ignore your challenge to stream 15 minute melee. And no, I'm not attacking your ability as a player, but your understanding of the game and hoping that you actually respond to the repeated inquiries as to what glitches are abused by Melee players?

 

[Big-Cat]

Can we just say, as I mentioned earlier in the thread that the whole system needs to go back to the drawing board? And if that happens, there's a good chance that L-Canceling as we know it might not even exist. In other words, it's probably pointless to discuss the depth or lack thereof behind L-Canceling.

 

[Master Knight DH]

L-Cancelling is NOT its own entity, it is actually PART of the execution of an aerial.
I'm willing to justify that sort of logic with super armor in Kid Icarus Uprising, because the game at least balances around that. Or **TRIES** to, but it's the thought that counts here.

You are rewarded for succeeding with good execution and not rewarded for failing.
If I wanted to play a game where I care so much about timing, I'd just play Super Mario RPG, Paper Mario, or Mario & Luigi. (None of them are bad games, mind. They're just simplistic enough about it, but designed to be simplistic, so I'll let that slide without problem.)

The main argument against L-Cancelling is that it has no "risks" and there is no reason "not to do it".
Why is that you think?

Well that is like saying aerials have no "risks" and there is no reason "not to perform them".
I'd be for aerials being more sensitive against defensive power.

L-Cancelling is not like fast falling where it is a mobility option which has its own context;
Say what?

L-Cancelling is wholly tied to the execution of aerials. It is in the same league as pressing A/C-Stick.
Pressing A is already a necessity.

Would you say that the CORRECT Wavedash input is stupid and there is no reason not to do it?
At least Wavedashing is mobility and thus avoids relying purely on timing, even if I frankly agree on it being removed from Brawl.

Of course not.
It's a freaking option.

Because there is no reason not to EXECUTE an input correctly.
How about being, oh I don't know, maybe clumsy? Which doesn't make you a bad player, although with the typical Smashboards user, it may as well.

And just being clumsy is if you're even aware that it's the correct move.

The mix-ups are a result of how and when you use that option, not the buttons pressed while performing it.
Wavedashing is an option. L-Cancelling is not. I'll give Wavedashing credit on that much at least.

Tl;DR Saying L-Cancelling is stupid because it has no mix-ups is like saying the QCF input-motion is stupid because it has no mix-ups.
QCF at least has a purpose. A potential Guide Dang It purpose, but a purpose none the less.

Execution=/=option
Unnecessary exectuion = bad

There we go.

 

[Big-Cat]

If I wanted to play a game where I care so much about timing, I'd just play Super Mario RPG, Paper Mario, or Mario & Luigi.

Might as well not play any fighting game then.

Unnecessary exectuion = bad

Then what IS necessary execution?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Yeah, HIS knowledge is totally going to carry him when he's ignoring deliberate weaknesses and not developing skills that could be useful for games or even jobs where that simply won't work.

"Weaknesses?"

What in the hell are you even talking about?

If anything, THAT was an insult.

Smooth Criminal

 

[heytallman]

De
This is a prefix used to indicate removal or reversal.

construct
This is a word meaning to build up, or otherwise create.

ed
This is a suffix indicating past tense.

!
The exclamation point indicates that you are firmly stating, or exclaiming, your phrase.

Deconstructed!

 

[Big-Cat]

Deconstructed!

Ow! My dictionary!

 

[Master Knight DH]

ITT: this describes the other users in general, especially Kink-Link5 who has been doing so REPEATEDLY, perfectly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q81O4wXBlD4


Oh my God. The Kid Icarus Uprising board on GameFAQs isn't even this bad.

 

[heytallman]

ITT:
An acronym meaning In This Thread or In This Topic

this describes the other users in general,
Here, you set yourself apart from others, indicating undeserved, unwarranted, and nonexistent superiority

especially Kink-Link5
The perceived ring-leader of the said "other users in general"

who has been doing so REPEATEDLY, perfectly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q81O4wXBlD4
I haven't read this thread but I'm sure nowhere has he, or anyone, for that matter, posted ten minutes of sand-person noises.

Oh my God. The Kid Icarus Uprising board on GameFAQs isn't even this bad.
lol gameFAQs

Deconstructed!

 

[heytallman]

Master Knight DH:
I see your AIM name is the same as your smashboards name, exactly.

Hello savage ***** who gets clobbered for trying to melee rush me.
I've been called a few names in my day, but never something as inane as a "savage b*tch. Was that the best you could come up with? Also, I have never been clobbered, at least not in recent times, and certainly not over the internet. Trying to melee rush you? I'm just gonna leave that one alone, I have no idea what you mean by that. Overall, your grammatical skills are lacking, there should have been a few commas in there. You seemed to be a little upset, so I'll let that slide. And taking something to AIM with a complete stranger seems a little extreme, don't you think? We could have easily sorted out our differences via PM on this site, but you had to let me know instantly, didn't you? Oh well, I'm ready to let bygones be bygones, but I will leave you with one word of advice: this is a ****ing website about a video game. Your word is not absolute. In fact, the farthest thing from it. And if we are "worse than GameFAQs," why not go back? Or do they treat you this way too? Either way, I'm tired of deconstructing this statement.

And goodbye.
Before I can even respond? How classy.

 

[Master Knight DH]

I see your AIM name is the same as your smashboards name, exactly.
So I should have a different SN on AIM?

I've been called a few names in my day, but never something as inane as a "savage b*tch.
You'd say that about any insult.

Was that the best you could come up with?
And you can come up with with better, troll?

Also, I have never been clobbered, at least not in recent times, and certainly not over the internet.
Then why is it every time you fight me with claws on Kid Icarus Uprising my club just beats you when you're using claws every damned time?

Trying to melee rush you? I'm just gonna leave that one alone, I have no idea what you mean by that.
Play Kid Icarus Uprising.

Overall, your grammatical skills are lacking, there should have been a few commas in there.
Congratulations. You learned how to nitpick just like the Fire Emblem failbase did to hypocritical levels.

You seemed to be a little upset, so I'll let that slide.
A little.

And taking something to AIM with a complete stranger seems a little extreme, don't you think?
Because, you know, your trolling is totally going to make a good first impression.

We could have easily sorted out our differences via PM on this site, but you had to let me know instantly, didn't you?
Yeah. You're the friendliest person ever, troll.

Oh well, I'm ready to let bygones be bygones, but I will leave you with one word of advice: this is a ****ing website about a video game.
Um, duh?

Your word is not absolute.
Neither is yours.

In fact, the farthest thing from it.
No, that of guys like Gea's is much farther, especially when he's going to call me slow like it's some valid argument. And I don't need to mention the trolling. It's self explanatory.

...what, you expected a semicolon there? You nitpicker.

And if we are "worse than GameFAQs," why not go back?
Funny thing. I'm leaving that place too. This place first since you're just acting like trolls who refuse to have any sense of working reason. But the KIU GameFAQs board, once I leave behind my topic, adieu to that place.

Or do they treat you this way too?
Like you care? All you care about is acting like savages. So did the KIU board but at least they were willing to provide ANY sane arguments.

Either way, I'm tired of deconstructing this statement.
GOOD!

Before I can even respond? How classy.
Why not. You've been doing that sort of cheap stuff to me for years. And I don't care if it sounds hypocritical, you're a savage either way.

Is that supposed to insult me? Naturally, since you have to explain it, you fail insulting forever.

There. I'm done with this. I wash my hands of the whole matter.

 

[Gea]

Is this what you honestly believe about Melee, to this day?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Is this what you honestly believe about Melee, to this day?

pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft


HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Smooth Criminal

 

[Wobbly Headed Bob]

Hyrule Temple is banned for a reason. So is New Pork City, which would have been a better example, but whatever.

Durrr, really? Do you think that MAYBE that's why I brought it up?

Besides, you're acting like a strawman.

You just won the biggest idiot award.


Edit:

Holy ****, what even gives morons of this caliber the slightest notion that they have something intelligent to say? It's been a while since I've seen this type of incessant delusional self-entitled pseudo-intellectual doofus in a forum. When I have some free time again, I'm going to have to lay it down as someone that actually studies and understands logic to some internet dip**** that likes to throw around words he doesn't understand to try to impress himself.

And for the guy with the Puff avatar, just ****ing read the thread and see how your every "point" has been countered so far. At this point, it just seems like you some mental handicap.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Is this what you honestly believe about Melee, to this day?

 

[Johnknight1]

LONG DELAYED POST (THAT WASN'T DELAYED) INCOMING THAT WILL NOT BE IN all caps!!!

I just got the best alternative to L-cancelling: Keep it the same mechanically as Melee, but make it only work for the Z button!

Inb4meleevsbrawldiscuzzam

You want mindgames? I'd vouch for the return of viable dash dancing over L-canceling anyday.

This guy gots it. Dash dancing increases mobility, which, quite frankly, helps out a lot of characters, and makes the side a character is facing to be more easily changed than the "normal" way. Also, please click on the rest of this man's post. It is well thought out, and perfectly explains stuffs, and asks some seriously good questions. It's sad you guys skipped over his post.

That still sounds like automatic l-canceling to me. If you can just press L or R at any point in the air, there is no point to timing the L-cancel to be right before you land, because it will happen whether you pressed it right away or waited until just then.

I do think there are ways to make the mechanic more dynamic, but it's a complex matter that honestly has no hope of being executed at all.

I just think overall L-cancelling is a lot like having a rhythm control (to run at the optimal speed) for running in a sprint. Sure, in a mini-game like a 100 meter dash where it is the only focus it makes sense, but in a game like smash bros where running is barely anything anyone is focusing on, it's freaking pointless. We should be able to run without having to worry about running at the optimal speed.

I forget the game, but I played a (American) football game once where you had to press 3 buttons just to do a simple, basic, generic pass as the quarterback. 3 buttons. In Madden, you just have to press 1, maybe 2. I mean, it's one thing if you have to press 3 buttons to do a specific type or throw or a throw at a particular angle, but they chose to make it inefficient. That's what I see non-automatic L-cancelling as: inefficient. L-cancelling, where automatically or manually being in or not being in certainly won't destroy/save smash bros, but it being in automatically is just easier, and puts more of the focus on timing your actual aerial to land combos rather than an additional unneeded input.

Still Kink-Link, I read some of your ideas for different timing on stuff based on combos, and I do think that is possibly an exception to me not wanting L-cancelling back. By all means, anything that can produce legitimate, non-gimmick/non-skilled based offense to smash is welcomed (especially after the stall-fest that is Brawl). If you come back to this thread, I'd like to hear more of your combo string-ish theories on how it could operate.

if you're really confident that L-Canceling will be SSB4 I'd be happy to make a $20 bet with you. The argument for it just doesn't make any sense... There's no way L-Canceling is coming back whether we want it or not.

I never said L-cancelling was coming back bro. Read my post. However, at the very least, someone probably will be able to hack Smash WiiU and Smash 3DS to have L-cancelling, just like what was done with Brawl.

Also, the last dude I made a bet with on SmashBoards didn't honor it. It was on Diddy getting in Brawl a few months before he was confirmed in 2007. Also, I haven't bet since then, other than the (1st) Super Bowl between the Patriots and the Giants. Yeah, I got that one right!

LOL

You can laugh buddy, but it doesn't make it any less true. I looked at the Toon Link advanced techniques list a few months ago, and there were at least 3 dozen. There might be up to a 6 dozen. It's one of the stickied Toon Link threads here. That's just 1 of character of the 39 characters. I'm sure more heavily used characters might have more than that.

WOOOW
I have a hard time believing he's serious
Normally i have a very low tolerance for stupidity
and I didn't notice someone posted something quite this dumb
so I'm thinking I subconsciously repressed the memory of reading this
because of, ya'know, my stupidity allergies

Maybe if you listened to people's argument before insulting them you wouldn't have such a negative rating on Smash Mods!
It also doesn't help that your rhyming, lyrics, or whatever are about as awful as a Michael Bay film!

Brawl Pika alone has over 100 advanced techs according to some old thread.

It's just that most of them are useless.

Exactly. I remember 1 of the Toon Link advanced techniques I only found useful in 1 tournament situation. Plus many of the advanced techniques or basically a few alterations of the same one. I know Toon Link's "bomb drop" technique had a ton of versions of it.

The more choice involved in a game, the deeper it is. (Along with the harder a game is to solve).
I mean, MvC is a great game. But it's not all that deep. The game comes down to mixups and then confirming combos, which means literally half the game is about how much you practice your combos, not about making the correct decisions.
Whereas, streetfighter is more or less the opposite, with some exceptions.

This post... was beautiful. It explained how fighting games can be great in two different games with almost the same mechanics. This post brought tears to my eyes.

 

[-LzR-]

Oh god what has happened to this thread overnight...

And for the guy with the Puff avatar, just ****ing read the thread and see how your every "point" has been countered so far. At this point, it just seems like you some mental handicap.

This is why it's so hard to argue with wannabe melee fanboys. Always so arrogant and stuff. Why can't you like try to prove a point for the the thread instead of just to beat my down so you can make fun of he, huh?

As I've said a million times, Lcanceling doesn't really add or remove anything from the game. It's just another thing to worry about. Just like the running example someone said a few posts ago. We don't need to alternate between L and R to control the characters feet to increase the running speed. But oh that would increase the options and ****.
I guess I'll just lurk instead as I haven't spotted many actual real Melee players posting because they don't care.

 

[Johnknight1]

Oh god what has happened to this thread overnight...

heytallman did some heavy drugs and decided to post on SmashBoards, Kuma had a dictionary drop on his head from atop a 5 story building and was hospitalized with a concussion that has a slight chance turn him into a zombie (and by "has a slight chance," I mean 0% chance), Master thought he was being funny by posting pictures of his fur less cat on the internet with a 18th century wig on, some people kept mentioning the phrase "strawman" to make up for the fact they are indeed a strawberry, noir continued to talk like a "fair and balanced" expert as effectively as Karl Rove (see this [at least from 2:30 on] for maximum laughter), Smooth Criminal talked in 3rd person as a device to deny that he is in fact not smooth or a criminal (he failed crime school), I wrote a long obituary for this thread with its' primary basis being that gravity does not equal free pie, and Gea gave Mr.Jackpot cancer via a random violent act of a prank fake phone sex call (kids, this is why you should take this stuff seriously!).

 

[-LzR-]

Wow, even if I had taken some any amount of drugs I couldn't have written something like that. Immediate respect.

 

[Vkrm]

As I've said a million times, Lcanceling doesn't really add or remove anything from the game. It's just another thing to worry about.

Most competitve players dont see new techs as something to worry about. It removes landing lag. And gives the characters a much needed bit of flexibility. I think we've already determined that being able to reduce lag is a good thing. We just need to figure out what way would be best. Being able to cancel whiffed is pretty nice so Im against this "on hit" nonsense.

Edit: DH is basically illiterate when it comes to competitive theory. I bet even those who share his opinion on LCing find it hard to agree with his posts. It does not help that he claims to refute people even though he fails miserable at understanding what the otherside is even saying.

 

[Johnknight1]

Wow, even if I had taken some any amount of drugs I couldn't have written something like that. Immediate respect.

If you're referring to me, no drugs were involved, other than the drugs I was born with!!!

As for the dictionary, my brother's friend constantly had a book fall on him in a recent family trip to LA. It fell on him at least 12 times. We kept telling him it was a sign from a more "spiritual world brah" that he should read said book, to which he declined. Seriously, the "book" was a freaking Garfield comic strip collection!

 

[I R MarF]

Is this what you honestly believe about Melee, to this day?

LMAO. Yeah, I can't even pretend to take MK DH seriously anymore

 

[DrinkingFood]

 

[Big-Cat]

Most competitve players dont see new techs as something to worry about. It removes landing lag. And gives the characters a much needed bit of flexibility. I think we've already determined that being able to reduce lag is a good thing. We just need to figure out what way would be best. Being able to cancel whiffed is pretty nice so Im against this "on hit" nonsense.

Edit: DH is basically illiterate when it comes to competitive theory. I bet even those who share his opinion on LCing find it hard to agree with his posts. It does not help that he claims to refute people even though he fails miserable at understanding what the otherside is even saying.

I'm mostly in the camp that L-Canceling is simply unbalanced. To me, it's a meterless cancel that shouldn't be available as often as it is. The way I see it, if something is so good that it simply outweighs all other options, it should be outright removed, rebalanced, or in some situations, made automatic.

Of course, I'd rather something more interesting that doesn't heavily favor aerial fighting.

And the one thing that has irritated me in this and the Heavies thread with DH is the comparison to Kid Icarus Uprising. The two are in completely different genres with different methods of gameplay. At least you can make an argument that Smash is similar to traditional fighters at a fundamental level.

 

[Wobbly Headed Bob]

Oh god what has happened to this thread overnight...



This is why it's so hard to argue with wannabe melee fanboys. Always so arrogant and stuff. Why can't you like try to prove a point for the the thread instead of just to beat my down so you can make fun of he, huh?

Because I already did, you imbecile. As I said, read the thread. You'll get people, including me, replying to the same toddler-level "points" you're making right now when someone else did them.

Here's a good place to start:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=15078839&postcount=124

As I've said a million times, Lcanceling doesn't really add or remove anything from the game. It's just another thing to worry about. Just like the running example someone said a few posts ago. We don't need to alternate between L and R to control the characters feet to increase the running speed. But oh that would increase the options and ****.
I guess I'll just lurk instead as I haven't spotted many actual real Melee players posting because they don't care.

I know you've said that a million times, but repeating a refuted something ad nauseum does not make it true.

You're talking to someone who takes actual argumentation classes, and no one looks very kindly at someone incapable of advancing from repeating their first point when this one has been refuted.