Let's talk about L-Canceling.

[JOE!]

But why not allow players to hold down the shoulder button for a tech rather than worrying about that pesky success window and fail window.

Because one could mess with the attacker by not teching at times, where they are used to chasing your tech options (rare but it happens).

Lcancel offers no such depth as it exists currently.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I'm not sure how you got that from Food's post, but he's saying something very different than "Why not tech automatically"

 

[DrinkingFood]

Because one could mess with the attacker by not teching at times, where they are used to chasing your tech options (rare but it happens).

Lcancel offers no such depth as it exists currently.

I'm not sure how you got that from Food's post, but he's saying something very different than "Why not tech automatically"

Kink is right, I wasn't suggesting forcing a tech every time, but allowing the player to tech while holding down shield, without a fail window, and without having to hit the twenty frame window.
That way anytime you fear a counter attack during vulnerable frames, and intend to tech, you can just hold the shield button and react via standing tech, rolling, or releasing the button to avoid teching. Because the ability of the opponent to make it extremely easy to miss a tech by causing repeated knockdowns isn't something we should consider. Just because we don't like having a game that requires a little concentrated effort to learn.

 

[JOE!]

Derp, read it wrong then lol.

Anywho, holding shield while in hit-stun would be technically the same as pressing it as you hit, just different timings.

 

[Kink-Link5]

It wouldn't be a different timing, it would be no timing at all; there's a fairly massive difference. Brawl techs have different timing than Melee's. Auto-teching with a held button means the button could be held from the time the match starts until it ends and you'll tech every time

(In between periods of holding your shield up until it breaks)

 

[JOE!]

Except when you wanna do stuff that involved not pressing shield.

 

[Gea]

The whole point is there is no penalty for mashing in his scenario, whereas there is a penalty now. There is also a penalty for mashing up+B after getting meteored. The question is what would it take away if you removed the penalties?

 

[Kink-Link5]

In who's scenario?

 

[Gea]

Yours? Drinking? Same thing. Mashing and holding with no penalty have the same outcome. Not having to time it but still reaping the rewards.

 

[El Duderino]

edit: nevermind

 

[DrinkingFood]

No penalty for mashing/holding? Then make one...? Instead of removing l-canceling all together. Treat it like teching.

 

[-LzR-]

The whole point is there is no penalty for mashing in his scenario, whereas there is a penalty now. There is also a penalty for mashing up+B after getting meteored. The question is what would it take away if you removed the penalties?

There isn't a penalty for mashing up+b for meteorcanceling. Only for jumping. (at least in Brawl so I assume it's the same in Melee)

 

[Gea]

No, there is a penalty for it in Melee. Mashing Up-B before you get meteored or during hitlag will prevent you from cancelling for a short period of time. 40 frames

 

[-LzR-]

Oh yes, I forgot it works differently in Melee as you can meteor cancel instantly.

 

[TheTTimeLives]

Honestly, this discussion should be wrapped with what P:M did for L-Canceling. Just give some kind of visual cue that you pulled it off and you can learn the timing easy. It does add depth and it is a pretty accessible mechanic.

If they should add anything, they should add the ability to change the way your facing in the air. That way every character can juggle all 5 aerials together in one direction. Now that would be sick.

 

[JOE!]

B-reversal / a few Bairs (at least in P:M) do that already.

Also, the discussion isn't whether or not it should have a visual cue (it should though), but rather how much depth is actually provides vs the tech skill barrier it provides, and if how it is included as-is in smash games could be done better.

 

[DrinkingFood]

But we already talked about that JOE
And already talked about how to fix it too
without needing to remove it
Make it harder was actually the solution lol
but then we can add back the flash from P:M, trust me that **** helps so much more than a bigger window

 

[Snakeyes]

I agree that smash would have depth without l canceling. I just don't think it's nessessary to lower the barrier for entry when it's already pretty low compaired to the likes of street fighter and marvel. And on top of that it's satisfying to successfully l cancel. Overall I'm not sure if the game would be any better without it than it already is.

Just play Falcon. Everything you do with him is satisfying

Damn, this thread blew up in a month. What did I miss?

 

[Kink-Link5]

People bumping a week-old thread continuously instead of just letting it RIP in peace.

 

[Shocksauce]

How can freewill coexist with predestination?

 

[DrinkingFood]

fun fact: it can't and doesn't

 

[N1c2k3]

Thank goodness it can't. There's only 1 whose will is completely free and that's God's. If left to our own will we'd burn like Brawl...

On topic:

Maybe I'm biased because LC'ing is programmed into my fingers after 9 years, but I can't imagine Smash without it. It adds an element of skill that seperates players by their ability. If our aim is competitiveness, why scratch that?I say keep it in..

 

[Shocksauce]

ah, the days of thinking ones own opinion is fact. how I don't miss them.

 

[Vkrm]

How can freewill coexist with predestination?

I really want to you to tell us how this relates to l canceling

 

[Kink-Link5]

Lock request sent.

 

[DrinkingFood]

There's only 1 whose will is completely free and that's God's.

How do you know this
You seem to have access to some knowledge that the rest of the world doesn't

I will turn this into a religion thread so I guess it's a good thing you sent that Kink lol

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The thread has been locked, per Kink-Link5's request.