Let's talk about final Destination

[Budget Player Cadet_]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9919448&postcount=315

What are the official criteria for a starter stage? Is it being simple and boring, or being relatively neutral and not an instant issue when chosen? Final Destination is one of the best stages if not THE best stage for Falco, ICs, Diddy and DDD. Why is this still a starter?

 

[fkacyan]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258820

Welcome to the party! You're pretty late.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Oops. Well, old thread is old. :V

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

I personally can't stand Final Destination. I like it as a neutral, but it's my least favorite neutral out of all of the existing neutrals.

 

[TheBlossomingLily]

Final Destination has to be THE CAMPIEST/SPAMMIEST NEUTRAL STAGE I have ever seen. It's so "fair" that it's BROKEN!!

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Final Destination has to be THE CAMPIEST/SPAMMIEST NEUTRAL STAGE I have ever seen. It's so "fair" that it's BROKEN!!

I might sig that. Epic formatting BTW.

But the whole argument of FD as a CP is that because neutral stages are supposed to be unbiased, it comes into question against characters who do well without obstacles. I wouldn't go as far as to make it a counter, because all the neutrals can be heavily biased in at least 1 matchup.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

I would like to see and think of FD as a counterpick though, personally.

 

[Omit]

The thought of FD being a CP is kinda unrealistic. Sure its pretty biased for some matchups but not for nearly as many as people make it out to be.


eeeyyyy (Y)

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

You will almost always ban this stage against ICs, Falco, DDD, and Diddy. This is NOT a neutral. If you have to instantly strike it because otherwise your opponent goes to the stage they would pick on their counterpick anyways, then something is wrong.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

FD in my opinion should be considered a CP. There really is no point in having a stage that is going to get stage striked when ever someone uses a character that has good projectiles or a really good chain grab

 

[Dragoomba]

FD was a neutral in Melee.

FD should be a neutral in Brawl.

 

[T-block]

I hope you're not serious. That is the silliest reason I've ever heard.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

IF you really think about it, FD is the only starter that you hear about getting banned when someone wins a game. But then again, I am a diddy main

 

[Sexy Mirage]

Am I the only one who likes Final Destination!?

I really enjoy to see how in a stage like that is possible to make so funny battles, I enjoy melee's too.

 

[-LzR-]

Final Destination sucks. I hate it so I picked IC so ppl wouldn't pick it against me all the time.

 

[Orion*]

stages with hazards shouldnt be nuetrals and the slants on the sides always mess up your recovery so i think it shouuld be a cp like delfino

 

[Blaze King]

Am I the only one who likes Final Destination!?

I really enjoy to see how in a stage like that is possible to make so funny battles, I enjoy melee's too.

You're not the only one. I like that stage too.

 

[Majority]

FD was a neutral in Melee.

FD should be a neutral in Brawl.

Was...? Melee is still being played, you know.

It's funny how people are complaining about how a flat piece of ground with nothing on it is unfair.

 

[Chuee]

Why would you ban FD against a falco when he can take you to Japes?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You will almost always ban this stage against ICs, Falco, DDD, and Diddy. This is NOT a neutral. If you have to instantly strike it because otherwise your opponent goes to the stage they would pick on their counterpick anyways, then something is wrong.

I'd ban BF against Snake, Marth, and Wario who all have a notable advantage on that stage.

BF for cp?

 

[Tokyoinamerica]

FinalD is a neutral end of story.

I say we play every game no matter what on flat zone.

 

[T-block]

I'd ban BF against Snake, Marth, and Wario who all have a notable advantage on that stage.

BF for cp?

The matchups on Battlefield are far less skewed than on Final Destination. No one is claiming that other stages don't give advantages, but the point is that there are quite a few stages that are more "fair" overall than Final Destination, yet FD gets the nod over them as a starter in a 5-starter system, which doesn't make sense.

 

[AzureAura]

Final D. is too boring

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'd ban BF against Snake, Marth, and Wario who all have a notable advantage on that stage.

BF for cp?

The matchups on Battlefield are far less skewed than on Final Destination. No one is claiming that other stages don't give advantages, but the point is that there are quite a few stages that are more "fair" overall than Final Destination, yet FD gets the nod over them as a starter in a 5-starter system, which doesn't make sense.

This.
Let me ask you-would snake/wario/marth CP you to battlefield if Halberd/Brinstar/Norfair/other stage which is good for any of those guys is available? No, of course not. Battlefield gives those guys a small advantage (like DDD on Delfino or Oli on YI), as opposed to a major advantage (like Snake on Green Greens, MK on RC, or wario on Brinstar).

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The matchups on Battlefield are far less skewed than on Final Destination. No one is claiming that other stages don't give advantages, but the point is that there are quite a few stages that are more "fair" overall than Final Destination, yet FD gets the nod over them as a starter in a 5-starter system, which doesn't make sense.

This.
Let me ask you-would snake/wario/marth CP you to battlefield if Halberd/Brinstar/Norfair/other stage which is good for any of those guys is available? No, of course not. Battlefield gives those guys a small advantage (like DDD on Delfino or Oli on YI), as opposed to a major advantage (like Snake on Green Greens, MK on RC, or wario on Brinstar).

There are stages more fair than FD, however, this doesn't make it CP. Do these character get such a huge advantage in which they are broken on these stages?

debate-ably IC's but they still have characters who can fight just fine on that stage.

Do they get huge bonus' from the stage, of course it's a good stage. But does the stage cause characters to completely dominate? No.

Speaking of not CPing here, Falco would take japes over this, DDD has RC against anyone who doesn't gain more from this stage.

So we're left with Diddy and IC's, who have this as their best stage.

 

[T-block]

My stance on this has always been "take the most fair stages". That's it. I don't care about how many characters have it as their best stage any more than that it makes the stage less fair.

FD should be a CP if we are only using 5 starters not because it's Diddy's best stage per se, but because there are 5 stages that are more fair than FD to be used as starters. Once we hit 7 starters, FD becomes more acceptable as a starter. Personally, I think 9 starters is when FD should be in (BF, SV, YI, Lylat, PS1, Halberd, Castle Siege, Pictochat), but that's less obvious.

 

[Boofy!]

Smashville is worse than FD in certain scenerios

 

[Variable]

Smashville is worse than FD in certain scenerios

How?

SV beats FD in every category. That is unless you main D3 and feel like CG'ing across the entire map.

 

[MikeKirby]

stages with hazards shouldnt be nuetrals and the slants on the sides always mess up your recovery so i think it shouuld be a cp like delfino

What? What hazards? You talking about FD? That's like saying Melee's Battlefield should be a CP. Also, in Brawl it's a LOT easier to sweetspot the ledge.

 

[Variable]

What? What hazards? You talking about FD? That's like saying Melee's Battlefield should be a CP. Also, in Brawl it's a LOT easier to sweetspot the ledge.

Yeah, and slanted edged don't hurt you... You just slide up them and grab onto the edge...

ex: SV

 

[Excellence]

I think someone mentioned it above me, but the five starter stages should be the five most fair and Final Destination just happens to be one of the five most fair. The only reason to get rid of it would be because it is not as fair to a majority of the cast, which it isn't. If someone could find and prove another stage to be more fair then it can be gotten rid of.

 

[T-block]

Pictochat is more fair. Halberd is more fair. PS1 and Castle Siege are more fair.

 

[MikeKirby]

Norfair?

10chars

 

[sunshade]

Norfair?

10chars

If we were to look at the number of match-ups in which final destination is the most advantage giving stage compared to the number of match-ups in which Norfair is the most advantage giving stage I think we would probably find that Norfair is more balanced stage than final destination.

 

[PurpleTop]

I love FD, (though I hate the edges). I do use Falco, yes, but even when I use other characters, it is just so neutral that you can preform just about any combo. The platforms on battlefield or even smashville get in the way.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

FD is full of nothing to me unless I'm Snake so I can camp depending what char I'm playin. I need platforms to back me up so I can combo my opponents.

 

[AzureAura]

FD's to boring I preffer Smashville

 

[Mota]

Good ol FD. I likes it. Just hold up and press A to select.

 

[BluePSI]

I think it is very boring (apart from the awesome background) and I honestly can'r play brawl for too long if I just go on FD over and over and over.....
I prefer onett but thats just my opinion

 

[WB40]

I am divided on FD, actually.

On one side, it is small and simple enough for people to get to grips with brawl. No other platforms. Just one, solitary layer.

On the other, once those new players have improved, FD turns into FSF - Final Spam Fest. And, it gives ground based characters, like Samus a buff against aerial based characters like Pit.

I, personally lean towards 'like' than 'not like' with Final Destination, since it is a good stage for my main.