Let's talk about Falcon for a bit...

[Diesel]

What's up, Ganon boards? It's your friend Diesel here, New England's Ganon.

I've got to say I've been having real problems with the Falcon M/U lately. Not just regular falcons, but a very seasoned player (best falcon in NE) named $mike (Black Chris knows him I think).

Anyway, through playing with him constantly, I'm finding this M/U to be really tough.

I'd like to get some input from Ganons who have actually gone toe-to-toe with the best falcons around (Kage recently beat Hax, for example), because this particular falcon that I aim to topple is not just some neighborhood pro.

If we could, I would like to get real in-depth M/U advice in addition to little tips.

I could probably start off with plenty of advice I know for breaking down dime-a-dozen falcons into their base components, but none of the stuff I know seems to work consistently on the beast I seek to conquer.

So, best Ganons around, I'll leave it to you to really dig deep and tell us what you have to say about this M/U.

Other than the fact that it's ballhair.

 

[-ACE-]

I love $mike. I haven't played him in a long time. Tell him I said hey

This is copied from a post I made in another thread regarding proper DI in the falcon matchup. Although I know a good bit about this matchup, I'll leave you with this for now and give Linguini/Kage a chance to chime in.

Biggest things:
-Learning to deal with the nair approach
-getting good at techchasing
-DI

How to DI depends on your damage and your position on the stage. DI everything away at low%, excluding knees near the edge. Starting around 30% or so, you have to have some quick reaction time. The goal is to DI away unless you see thee knee coming. Sometimes it's best not to DI at all, like if you are at 90-100ish and get uthrow'd. You DI the throw away, falcon uairs. You are still in danger off the uair to knee combo if you survival DI the uair, and if you DI away, you are giving him am easy edgeguard opportunity. No DI will put you out of combo range and normally give you access to the ledge. If you are over 100%, survival DI everything. There is more to it but those are the basics. Make yourself difficult to combo without handing out edgeguards.

 

[kupo15]

Maybe you could tell us some specifics about the matchup that you are have a hard time with?

If its the SH nair then CC jabbing through them is really good for example.

 

[Diesel]

Biggest things:
-Learning to deal with the nair approach
-getting good at techchasing
-DI

Make yourself difficult to combo without handing out edgeguards.

I'm pretty familiar with these concepts (the no DI on the dthrow at 90-100 is new) but it's the last sentence of your post that gives me a hard time. I'm finding it quite difficult to keep myself on the stage when every grab he gets leads to 3 or more hits. If you could elaborate on this a bit more, that would be helpful.

If its the SH nair then CC jabbing through them is really good for example.

Yeah, I suppose I don't always CC the nair when I should. But then, it's also not always a nair approach.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Look, i think i might be able to throw some insight in here
Diesel can **** the balls off of any falcon once he gets control of the match. His tech chasing is good enough, his followups are good as well, and his ledgeguarding is superb, though it is a little lacking when falcon recovers high. I see him having trouble in the neutral position the most, and while his evasive game is good enough, he tends to find himself in **** vs falcon because of how easily falcon can overshoot and just react to ganon's slow speed.
This could be incorrect, but that's what i tend to see when i watch them play/go falcon vs diesel.

also, i have never seen a ganon di down on combos as consistently as he does. Don't worry about di, he's got all that **** down. I think if he could gain control more easily, he'd have a much better time in this mu.

 

[Diesel]

Thanks for the input, Mafia. I'm pretty bad generally at finding the flaws in my own play.

 

[-ACE-]

I'm pretty familiar with these concepts (the no DI on the dthrow at 90-100 is new) but it's the last sentence of your post that gives me a hard time. I'm finding it quite difficult to keep myself on the stage when every grab he gets leads to 3 or more hits. If you could elaborate on this a bit more, that would be helpful.

I said don't DI the uair (at that percent) after you DI a uthrow away. With my closing statement there I was simply expressing the goal of combo DI, which is basically to keep yourself slightly out of combo range.

You won't have time to react to the uair, so when you are hit/thrown up in the air, you should keep the control stick pointed in the direction in which you would want to DI a uair. Then if he knees (which you should have time to react to) instead, you can switch to survival DI (up and slightly in, which is perpendicular to the knee's kb, which is out and slightly up). You won't have time to react to a nair, but the first hit of falcon's nair has very little knockback so you have time to DI the second hit properly as well.

Sometimes Falcon will get 3 hits off a grab, it happens. You just have to try your best not to get grabbed very often, and try to be just as deadly when you get a grab of your own (check out the sticky'd thread on techchasing fastfallers).

Edit: it looks like you want advice on defense? I'm not sure. Anything more specific? Zoning? Stage control? Countering approaches?

 

[kupo15]

After getting uthrowed (maybe dthrow?), have you tried breaking out of it with a well timed uair? I've been able to do it and it seems to be a good counter.

Perhaps you are a bit too aggressive trying to get the first hit in? Maybe try camping the **** out of him with bair>double jump bairs and just throw a wall of safe hitboxes? Personally I don't think that the fair is a good keep away move because a falcon can easily knee you from across the stage.

If you see falcon trying to approach after you land from your bair wall, try doing a turnaround up ftilt or CC jab grab? Maybe?

I forget if $mike is nair happy but I would think about tricking him into getting away with the nair and CC it. If your on the ground when he is approaching, maybe try immediately crouching for several reasons:

CC the right moves and %s
It makes powershielding easier against moves you don't want to CC like the stomp or knee

I think its important not to chase the falcon but let him approach you and make sure you have an answer for it.

Maybe give it a try. Just throwing out some concepts

 

[Diesel]

Edit: it looks like you want advice on defense? I'm not sure. Anything more specific? Zoning? Stage control? Countering approaches?

I guess countering approaches is a big thing for me. He's really good at adapting his approach to my actions, so I suppose I'd like a few different options here.

After getting uthrowed (maybe dthrow?), have you tried breaking out of it with a well timed uair? I've been able to do it and it seems to be a good counter.

Perhaps you are a bit too aggressive trying to get the first hit in? Maybe try camping the **** out of him with bair>double jump bairs and just throw a wall of safe hitboxes? Personally I don't think that the fair is a good keep away move because a falcon can easily knee you from across the stage.

Breaking out of it with a Uair sounds feasible at mid to higher percents. I'll give it a shot.

And I'm well familiar with camping with bair to ftilt. It works on occasion. Generally, though, he's smart enough to bait my ftilt after a bair and run in just after. Like I said, he's got ALOT of experience.

 

[kupo15]

IIRC, I think the uair break works better at low percents but I'm not sure. I also agree with Chris that I think platforms really help ganon out a lot!

 

[Diesel]

Oh, I'm definitely slip-sliding on platforms all day. It's one of my strengths.

 

[-ACE-]

You should use the uair to break out when you know it will work. Percent doesn't really matter per se, but typically at lower percents falcon will be able to follow up and hit you before your hitstun wears off. If you think you may trade hits, be ready to DI accordingly.

As far as countering his approaches:
NAIR
-Fully spaced bair works best against his nair, but ftilt, uair, jab, and a FULLY spaced fair can also do the trick (obviously you can't get predictable with tilts like you mentioned, otherwise they'll bait this and punish)
-At lower percents you can CC the nair to a jab, jc grab, or tilt (less reliable)
-Backwards wavedashes/wavelands are great for maintaining your space, and they can set you up for an easy shieldgrab if you can read his approach
-If he nairs past/through you, you can bair (or even dair) oos, or buffer a forward roll

KNEE
-Unfortunately, shielding usually is best (buffering rolls can be very useful when used appropriately)
-Tilts and aerials can beat the knee if it isn't timed/spaced perfectly, but you must be ready to DI correctly in the event that you trade hits (again, pay attention to your own % and location on stage).

Once you beat an approach, grab, or even hit falcon at all, you have to try your best to shut him down. The speed of Falcon's DD and jump give him near-complete control of this matchup, so you have to be patient and play very defensive at times. Try to get him offstage for a KO (techchase with fair is great for this) instead of going for an elaborate combo. I know a lot of this is basic but usually when you're having problems with a matchup it's because you're breaking a cardinal rule, imo.

Also, here's a hilarious video of me and $mike back when we were both horrible at this game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah2uFN7hHek

 

[kupo15]

If he hits you with the first hit of the nair, you can CC it all day.

Also in my experience, rolling away from a knee got me grabbed anyway against $mike.

Damn, his falcon is really fast

 

[mers]

If falcon is approaching a lot, mixing up bair and wavedashes/wavelands works pretty well. I find it much more difficult when he camps with dash dances and retreating nairs and grabs.

 

[-ACE-]

Well, buffering a roll is only beneficial in certain situations. It certainly shouldn't be a "go to" strat whenever you shield an aerial, but it can really save your *** sometimes. It becomes more useful if you are staying mobile and doing a good job of keeping a safe distance from falcon/making it hard for him to space his approaches properly.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

mikes falcon is too good.

i usually get my hits in when making him chase to the top platform. usually, his fullhop uair won't lead to anything even if it does hit. but if you see him coming, a drop through bair can usually do the trick. also, if you can shield drop, i can imagine drawing him in to any of the platforms by appearing vulnerable and in shield, but then coming down with a shield drop bair.

if you play a stage like FD, he will combo you like it's FD. you and I both know that mike's combo's are not particularly DI dependent. he knows the answer depending on how you DI. if you DI down/away to get back on the ground, he will regrab. if you DI up, he'll uair again, onto a platform to get jumps back. if you DI out, he'll get the knee over with and edgeguard if necessary. Good DI won't really get you away from mike.

Simply "using platforms" will not beat $mike. beating him with ganon is...hard. I can beat his secondaries, but even during winter break when i played him a couple times, i don't think i quite took a match. beating mike has to happen before the match even starts. it can't be a matter of "how will i stop him?" you have to make him think "how will i approach this ganon?" of course mike is a fearless falcon who at least doesn't fear approaching ganon, so your work is cut out for you.

you've gotta be ahead of him though. mike's approaches aren't really something you can just cc jab. if he catches you looking for cc's, he's either knee -> grab you or just straight grab you. and we both know what he can do off of one grab. it's good advice, and will work against lesser falcons, but mike takes more. fighting him fair, on a standup "come at me bro, and i'll deal with it" will fail. you have to predict mike, you have to find his tendencies and exploit them and punish them hard. if theres any pattern to his dash dancing, any way he likes to get on or get off of platforms, any way he chooses to read your techs, or dashdance while you're on the ground to force your decisions, just anything you can see about his style that you can counter: find it.

cause when it comes to beating $mike's falcon, you can only do it by clipping his wings before he starts flying. get in his head, find his habits, and treat every stock like it's your last, while understanding that the only real way to avoid getting combo'd, is to not let it start.

edit: i didn't really say this explicitly, but basically, you have to counter his approaches before he even does them. this is problematic, because mike is really good at dashdancing to make you think that he's doing something even when he's not. but by the time he leaves the ground, it's usually too late to react to. i think thats where the platforms come in, because the extra distance he has to go vertically generally breaks his combos and gives extra time to react and punish.

 

[Linguini]

ACE def made a good post with the basic tools you need in the matchup and some more specific techs.

Looking more deeply into the offensive/defensive theory of the matchup will help against quick characters like fox/falcon. VS these characters defense is a lot less useful and offense is extremely effective, whereas in matchups vs chars. like marth and peach defense is extremely effective much of the time.

Having a great offense is one of the hardest things to achieve when you are playing ganon and I only just recently really started to refine mine. Since falcon doesn't have a projectile he's going to be constantly dashdancing waiting for you to commit with a move(which has lag) and will punish. This is probably your problem. What you are going to want to do is not give him time to get comfortable with that strategy.

When he moves to a new position is when you are going or close in on the opponent. Some good techniques to rush are:

-SH waveland into jab or ftilt
-aerial to dj waveland----> ground move
-run and grab(if you guys didn't know this, grab counters close range dashdancing)
-platform dropped aerials/wavelands( much harder to use effectively and is def not the only strat you should rely on

That's only the tip of the iceberg but it's some useful info for a tough matchup to master.

 

[-ACE-]

Damn chris, making mike sound unbeatable with ganon haha. Good di can get you away from ANY falcon, you just have to be aware of falcons abilities and not underestimate his speed. Mike is def a beast though, I wish I had the chance to play him as often as some of you.

Linguini, that run and jc grab strat is killer. I need to use it a bit more often.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

just to those who think stopping the approach is a problem, mike's falcon doesn't seem to have a problem ignoring baits and baiting himself
he controls ******** amounts of space and uses that in a pressure game that forces you to commit to something, and it's usually laggy.
good di will never "definitely" get you out of his combos, it's ganon and he has solid followups
basically, whenever i see mike and dan play, mike just outspaces and pressures in the neutral. I really don't know what ganon can do vs a safe and effectively pressuring falcon, but if anyone knows what to do there, then it'd probably be of much help. getting out of combos would help dan but it probably wouldn't win him a match. The kills i see dan get are basically momentum reversals, turning an excessive kill into his ledgeguard, or punishing a whiffed overcommitment. He needs to be able to win this from neutral, and this isn't made any easier by the fact that mike can wait like a mother****er.

 

[Brookman]

mafia dude, shouldn't you be practicing?

go practice smash DI on fox's drill and up air.

use the control stick and the c stick.



@ deisel. This has nothing to do with ganon vs. falcon, Mike is just outplaying you, on top of playing as a slightly better character. Learn to play the game on a higher level and the fact that you play ganon will start to be less of a problem.

Open your mind to creativity and you'll realize the things you do that you think are 'safe' are in fact the reason you're losing.

Fair and f tilt are a good place to start. Encroach on his DD with fair. if he doesn't immediately dash in for a grab simply go for another fair and slowly take more space with it Till he's forced to attack you (use jab) or go over your head (use up air). You're going to have to play extremely pro- and re- actively cause Mike is no slouch. Ganon's longest range ground move is dtilt and that **** is pretty good at mid percents, followed by ftilt.

Dash dance, he'll probably see your dash dance as a opening cause you play slow and probably come in with a nair. Learn to CC this move and grab.

roll to jab LOL

full jump down air in centerstage

full jump and shffle reverse up airs

sh back air dj back air waveland

It's hard to capitalize on an opening with ganon cause he's slow. If you're not interested in picking up another character just keep practicing. Make sure that when you finally get your opportunity to grab or connect you make a stock of it.

watch more kage/rockcrock. Rock is mad good with movement and plays extremely patient and cautiously. Didn't get a chance to play kage at rom tho :CCC


I don't play enough ganon.

 

[-ACE-]

Lol mafia, of course falcon has lots of solid followups on Ganon. I'd never argue against that. Great DI will make it hard for this falcon to KO you. Maybe Mike is better than him though, I know he's been practicing lol (just saying, you aren't dead every time falcon touches you :>).

When I read some of your posts it reminds me of the first time I played Scar in tournament like a year and a half ago. Somehow I got him down to 1 stock the first match on BF, but I got ***** (3 stocked on YS) the second match and was completely overwhelmed by his combos and wall/scarjumps. It made me realize a LOT of things about Falcon's abilities that I simply didn't/couldn't previously. Playing a great Falcon will make you see the matchup much differently. It's far from an impossible matchup though, I assure you.

I know simple advice isn't really a big help but you really just have to be patient and play conservatively (to an extent, never let yourself be a sitting duck) and punish like there is no tomorrow when the opportunity presents itself. Any Falcon is beatable with Ganon. It's too bad we couldn't see some vids of Kage/Linguini vs Mike so some of you could see that it's not as bad as you think at first (just like there was a point after I got ***** by Scar that I thought this matchup was bogus lol). Anyway just keep practicing and like Brookman said, keep and open mind. You will most likely realize that some of the stuff you are doing is not as safe as you first thought it was.

Record some vids!!!! I want to see Diesel and Mike in action!!

 

[Diesel]

Wow. GREAT stuff guys! Thanks so far.

@Black Chris: You pretty much summed up all my thoughts about $mike. It just seems like he's unbeatable at times!

BUT!

like @Brookman said, I'm well aware that he's just outplaying me and it has less to do with the matchup. I'm definitely aware that i'm not quite practiced enough to not mess up when it's crucial. I'll be sure to practice alot more. And I'll try to keep an open mind and maybe invent something.

@Linguini: Dropping mad knowledge bombs in this thread. This is the meat and potatoes that I had in mind. I've tried a few of these techniques that you've explicitly stated, but maybe not to their fullest extent. Thanks for the metagame information as well (kinda what I had in mind for this thread).

@Ace: Thanks for sticking with this thread so far. I'll try and record with $mike in the next two days or so. I'll be sure to implement some of the stuff I've learned so far.

Keep it coming!

 

[Dr Peepee]

LOL good stuff mike

I trained you well vs ganon huh? <3

 

[n0ne]

well. if u wanna be defensive, try always to attack with ganons back facing falcon. its really scary... and falcons think it twice before appoaching. bair comes out quickly, reverse uair spaces nice, dont forget dair, and once in a while, u can experiment, do a back roll to get closer to him. since backroll is REALLY fast it helps in surprising.

The truth of the matter is, youll almost be never aproaching because ganon is too slow, HE has to come to u, the good thing is, there are no projectiles in this MU so, one less worry.

But since, HE has to appoach, nothing he has beats bair. bair will always outprioritize falcon or in a bad case scenario, exchange hits. and it comes out fast. believe me, bair is MUCH better than a fair. I usually only use fair for a sure hit like after a tech read or for the kill if i ate his jumps or something like that.

Remember your tilts. ftilt and dtilt have huge range. take advantage of this.


Ganons safest place on every stage is close to the ledge. it helps get back to the ledge for those i. frames in tight situations.

Notice how he likes to recover. high, or low. if he like to do it low, then tipman spike hits even sweetspots, then go for the edgeguard. if while ur doing this he grabs u in his up-b, REMEMBER TO DO THE ROCKCROCK! if ur confident in your teching skill, go for it. its very safe. and sure for the kill.
If he likes high, stick to him and use bair. or w/e but stick to him. waveland on platforms for faster movement.

so, pretty much if u want to get hits off falcon, u gotta techread and punish ( waveland helps a lot here, dont dair at too high %s, remember uair comes out really fast, and can eat his jumps in ocasions, and try to master edgeguarding him.

After sheik, and fox, i think this is dorfs hardest MU. its hard but when u start being effective in it, it becomes really fun.

Pretty unorganized post, but theres info here.

And yeah, what ACE said. record some matches bro. sounds like good fighting.

 

[Brookman]

nothing he has beats bair but he doesn't have to beat bair. All he has to do is wait for you to bair and then punish.

 

[-ACE-]

nothing he has beats bair but he doesn't have to beat bair. All he has to do is wait for you to bair and then punish.

Truth .

 

[A2ZOMG]

As much as I like this matchup, I do feel that a Falcon that plays this matchup **** near perfectly is reeeeeealy hard. Almost like space animal hard.

Honestly the way Ganon wins this matchup is just by landing a good hit and going for easy edgeguards. Ganon DOES have the tools, pretty much most of which have been stated already, though I think SHFFL U-air doesn't get enough credit personally. At any rate you can't spam any tools against Falcon. Being predictable vs Falcon onstage is very costly.

This is a matchup where a lot of it depends on how well you read the other player, so while knowing matchup specific counters to his stuff obviously is an important starting point, you need to be able to make reads to truly gain momentum in the few moments you seize control (grabbing him, stuffing an approach, comboing/edgeguarding him).

 

[n0ne]

nothing he has beats bair but he doesn't have to beat bair. All he has to do is wait for you to bair and then punish.

true but thats where the mixing up comes in.
Trixies.

-In a fullhop, u can bair then waveland. useful for aproaching or grabs.
-In a ONE fullhop u can 2x bair
-In a shorthop you dont need to l-cancel. if u dont FF it, then u can jump at the last minute to counter something
-In his 2 jumps, u can uair in shorthop, uair again in second jump, then waveland
-Ganon can do 3 aerials in combination of his 2 jumps. u can mix them up while camping to make falcon aproach and when hes near do a fast one like a uair.

Also something really useful is to start learning wavelanding... but in shorthops. it really makes ganon catch up to falcon

CCing is one of your best friends too in this MU. Ganon really needs to stay grounded while falcon is on the offensive. cuz once ganon is in the air its comboville. CC to ftilt or jab or getclose then grab.

 

[kupo15]

You can't waveland after a SH bair
You can FF a SH bair without l canceling

 

[n0ne]

You can't waveland after a SH bair
You can FF a SH bair without l canceling

My bad, i meant full hop... fixed.
yeah i know about the bair ffing thing but i do it without that to change timing in case i want to jump again at the last minute..... fixed also

 

[Samba]

I remember long ago playing against Darkrain at a tournament in TN... I was a noob/falco back then. I think I dealt less than 40% on him the whole game hahah... but anyway that was all in the past.
the biggest problem I have against falcons NOW though, as ganon, is avoiding grabs. even if he doesn't approach with a n-air, I get punished for a lot just cause of how fast he runs... it may just be my spacing isn't spot on, but can anyone offer any insight?

 

[Divinokage]

I wrote a message about the Ganon/Falcon matchup for 0room so.. I guess putting some of it here would help too I find. If you have any specific questions to ask me, go for it, I love this matchup. =P



This matchup on Ganon side is heavily dependant on counter-attacks.. you really have to know what moves counter what moves and then try to read accordingly.. a backjump fair (spaced) or backair beats Falcon's Nair straight up. Also when Falcon is on the ledge and he's attempting to do a ledgehop upair you can also space a backjump fair inside to make him have no more jumps and put him in serious crap. To approach Falcon, you really have to be careful. I normally like to stay somewhat close to Falcon so I have time to react to what he does and also at a spacing where he can't really punish me very hard.. so try not to spam too many aerials because Falcon will punish you inside the lag of Ganon's moves.. that's very important to know because this is Falcon's main approach vs Ganon. Oh ya.. if Falcon is trying to recover low, tipman edgeguard or downair is good. Keep it simple imo.

At mid percentage (50% about) you can start grabbing Falcon and then doing either upthrow/downthrow CG.. however that is very DI dependant and it's a 50-50 CG.. if the opponent is doing bad DI then you can continue mix-up both throws to continue the CG.. it's actually quite fun. =P I would only upthrow Falcon at high percentage if I know he's going to land on an upper platform, because like that it's an easy techchase.. Whenever you can put ANY character on a platform I say do it no matter what.. you can easily techchase after with upair/fair.. or if you wanna be fancy or mindgames.. you can waveland on platform and then re-grab to continue an easy techchase.. or forward B or simply Dair to another aerial. Falcon can also do the same. The downthrow vs Falcon is usually your best bet.. and then you can techchase fair, downair, bair.. wtv you want but make sure you read him. That's one of the hard parts for sure.

 

[Samba]

I find that staying really close to falcon (assuming you're on a small map like Battlefield) is one of the safest places to be. It's harder for him to dash-grab, and he can't carry you places with the n-air as easily. He'd have to shffl it stationary to hit you with both or else he'd just fly through you, at low %.
Although naturally if you miss an air move you're done for, no matter where you are in relation to him. Even if he's on a different gamecube on a different tv in a different room, he could just come flying in there with a sweet-knee to your face...

This will probably all change for me once I get better at spacing, b-airs f-airs etc.. as that's my weakest point, I just need practice

 

[Divinokage]

Ya for sure find the options that beats knee. If you can do a Down+B on reaction, it usually reverses Falcon to the other side or trades, it's funny but I don't really recommend it unless you are 100% sure it will hit.. I think fair beats knee.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I think fair beats knee.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoeCyTbYNjs#t=0m8s

Just saying, I thought that was epic. I probably couldn't replicate that if I tried.

/shameless self promotion

 

[Divinokage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoeCyTbYNjs#t=0m8s

Just saying, I thought that was epic. I probably couldn't replicate that if I tried.

Haha reaction time and experience, eventually you can do it at will. =P When Falcon is looking to recover from the bottom, just downair him.

 

[Samba]

Can Falcon hit you with the knee or the n-air if you're at the peak of a high-hop?

and is that KOS-MOS?

 

[Walt]

He can but not if he short hops which is what I think you meant? If he short hops he must use uair to hit Ganon's full jump. Full jump stomp will sometimes catch a sailing nair, but I perfer to just up-angle ftilt to kill nairs. Once you do it a couple times it becomes expected, so stuff like DD retreating bair on reaction to his jump approach, possibly to turn around ftilt/jab as you land to cover him trying to grab or continue jumping at you will mix up how he is trying to rush you down. Retreating fairs will also beat every air approach option falcon has. This is all assuming he doesn't just DD around and bait something from then **** you with a stomp or up throw.

 

[Samba]

I see. I just need to get better at DD f-tilts. I'm not at all good at doing the pivot-to-tilt in mid DD.
Mostly I think because I generally try to stay as close as possible to Falcon so he can't grab or n-air as easily, which means I don't take full advantage of the reach factor. That's worked out a little but I need to change my strategy and practice with a wider variety of counters. Falcon's easily my worst matchup, as I'm sure is true for tons of other Ganons. Does anyone know if B-Down beats knee and/or n-air?
I mean I know if you have time to read either move and use a B-down you'd also have enough time to do a f-tilt instead. But still, maybe the knockback disparity between the B-down and the f-tilt would screw up his tech reflex

 

[Brookman]

forward air's hit box is invincible so technically, nothing beats it.