Let's Shake Things Up

[Chaco]

THIS MAN GETS IT!

Yeaauuhhh I do.

 

[Kantrip]

This system is great and embraces the ideals of capitalism. Everyone SHOULD be putting up games at once. Everyone SHOULD be competing and campaigning for players. Seeing a bunch of games flop from lack of interest is the whole idea. Anyone waiting for games to finish/fill/etc to start/post theirs is doing it wrong!

I would much rather not run a game because no one is interested than put in the effort of trying to run a game where no one is playing.

DONT SIGN UP OUT OF PITY OR FOR THE SAKE OF FILLING A GAME SO OTHERS CAN FLOW. This was the flaw of the old system that we are trying to eliminate.

If you sign up for a game, it us expected that you'll be invested in the game and you are actually interested in playing.

If you are a mod, it is YOUR responsibility to make your game appeal to players. No one is obligated to join your game.

I think the new system is great, but everyone is complaining and being cynical while failing to grasp that it's doing its job right now. If only we would all start doing ours.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

"i must be interested in a games flavor to join it"

who subscribes to this?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

dude flavor hardly exists to me in terms of a mafia game. like seriously what the actual ****

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Nobody reads flavor in 2014!

 

[Kantrip]

If all you're thinking about when it comes to joining a game is flavour, you're gonna have a bad time.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

"i must be interested in a games flavor to join it"

who subscribes to this?

To a degree, but it can be trumped by the mod or the player list.

See Skies of Arcadia and Catherine.


But flavor can and should exist if it enhances the experience. The fact that an enjoyable aspect has fled the scene is bad.

 

[Orboknown]

"i must be interested in a games flavor to join it"

who subscribes to this?

I mean there are a lot of cases where someone joins a game because its one of their favorite games but id tend to go towards rykers statement

 

[Xivii]

Capitalism cannot apply to this environment.

 

[we thuggin]

capitalism shuldnt apply to ANY environment

 

[Xivii]

weren't you on that side of the political compass?

 

[Kantrip]

Can I have something to respond to with that statement?

I don't like capitalism and think it's inherently flawed as a system. Let's take that out of this though because it's not what my point is about.

A system that encourages games to run based on their quality and the desire of players to sign up is the best option. What we have adopted for the time being accomplishes this.

 

[Xivii]

Basically the ideas behind it can't be applied to this environment because there isn't a large enough consumer base, and the consumer base there is, is mostly made up of the competitors themselves all selling the same abundant service.

It could be applied if there was:

A. A larger consumer base
B. A variation in services

Imagine a nation in which there was an unlimited supply of cabbages. Yet each person's occupation was that of a cabbage farmer. That's basically what we're doing here, trying to sell each other our "higher quality" cabbages.

 

[Kantrip]

Except not, because a mafia game isn't a product. There's no exchange. People can both play in and moderate games. In fact, most people do both. A better example would be a service rather than a product. Let's take hairdressers, for example.

Everyone can be a hairdresser, and everyone needs their hair cut. They can't cut their own hair, and they need a client base. Some people might be better hairdressers than others, so they will draw in clients. Some people will get no clients and won't get the chance to cut anyone's hair. But in the end, everyone will get their hair cut somehow.

Similarly, we have a base of players who want to play mafia, and a base of players who want to host mafia. There is overlap, obviously, but the demand for games to actually RUN is there. So if everyone tries to moderate, SOME games will fill, but not all. Mafia will be played because there IS a demand for it. But only the best hosts will get to run the games that fill, as decided by what people want to play.

 

[Xivii]

Except not, because a mafia game isn't a product. There's no exchange. People can both play in and moderate games. In fact, most people do both. A better example would be a service rather than a product. Let's take hairdressers, for example.

Everyone can be a hairdresser, and everyone needs their hair cut. They can't cut their own hair, and they need a client base. Some people might be better hairdressers than others, so they will draw in clients. Some people will get no clients and won't get the chance to cut anyone's hair. But in the end, everyone will get their hair cut somehow.

Similarly, we have a base of players who want to play mafia, and a base of players who want to host mafia. There is overlap, obviously, but the demand for games to actually RUN is there. So if everyone tries to moderate, SOME games will fill, but not all. Mafia will be played because there IS a demand for it. But only the best hosts will get to run the games that fill, as decided by what people want to play.

This analogy isn't right either. You don't need 11 other people to cut a person's hair. If you did, not everyone would receive a hair cut if they each went to their preferable hairdresser.

The free market is a way to allocate scarce resources to an abundant consumer base. Here we are trying to allocate an abundant of resources to a scarce consumer base. The way for consumers in that 11-person haircut scenario to fix the problem is to come together and agree to get their haircut by the same person.

 

[Xivii]

Also quality isn't much an aspect here. We can see that through some clear evidence: Gheb's game. Gheb's game has the elements that we know are favored among the community:

• small roster
• balanced
• reliable mod
• simple set up

In the queue set up, all of Gheb's game's filled up within 15 days. His games filled up within about an average of 10 days. And they all contain between 11-14 players. The last G3S was run just around this same time last year.

His current game has almost been up for a month.

 

[Kantrip]

I think our problem doesn't stem from our current system as much as from a lack of interest in playing mafia in general. It's clear that no games are filling right now, but I don't think it would be any better with the old queue system in place either.

Sure, people might be FORCED to all join the same game, but not all of those /ins would be as a result of interest in the game itself. Forcing a player to join the game in queue when it may not be the kind of game they want to play is silly and will just lead to a lack of interest in the game AS it's going on. We can see that pretty clearly with inactivity/replacement/apathy track records.

We need a system that lets people play the games they want to play. You said it yourself, we have lots of resources and few consumers. The consumers dictate a situation like this. When that's the case, unfortunately lots of mods just ARENT going to have enough interest to fill a game. That's a problem we need to solve. DGames needs more people. But the solution is not to FORCE everyone to play games they aren't interested in just so we can fill a roster.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Also, we are in the most of midterms and Smash 4.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

With the release of smash 4 there's an influx of new people on SWF. We should try to get some of them to find their way into dGames.

 

[Maven89]

well in the last two weeks i've been here or whatever i've seen mainly squabbling about rules and two games that ended where everyone complained about how people dont' care


honestly this looks more like a small group of 10 people then a functioning community. maybe yall should advertise on the rest of the site, find some back rooms and sweep the people here

 

[JeXs]

Kidnap people. Obviously. Then bring back newbies.

 

[Maven89]

doesn't help when the site won't work

 

[JeXs]

Too much crashboards.

 

[Circus]

well in the last two weeks i've been here or whatever i've seen mainly squabbling about rules and two games that ended where everyone complained about how people dont' care


honestly this looks more like a small group of 10 people then a functioning community. maybe yall should advertise on the rest of the site, find some back rooms and sweep the people here

You met us at a very strange time in our lives.

In defense of this idea though, I initially found dGames through playing Mafia with folks in the Broom. It works.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Idea time

Mario newbie was advertised in the mario subforum. Why don't we have someone whip up a Smash 4 newbie mafia and advertise it there?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

There are seven games in signups.

"Oh yeah, people will just wait to host their games"

This is quickly turning into a terrible idea

 

[#HBC | Joker]

It's cuz nobody is even attempting to gauge interest before making threads. I assumed people would post here, or in the social, and say "Yo, I'm thinking of running a such n such themed game. Would people be interested in that?", and then not make the game when only 3 people express interest, and everyone else tells them "There's already 6 games currently in signups, dude. Chillax." I guess that was a silly assumption.

 

[Kantrip]

I personally don't think any of the games would fill even if there was only one in signups. Pool of active players is abysmal right now

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Let's do justice to the thread title and do something about it!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It's cuz nobody is even attempting to gauge interest before making threads. I assumed people would post here, or in the social, and say "Yo, I'm thinking of running a such n such themed game. Would people be interested in that?", and then not make the game when only 3 people express interest, and everyone else tells them "There's already 6 games currently in signups, dude. Chillax." I guess that was a silly assumption.

That isn't what the problem is.

 

[Maven89]

I mean Gheb's game has been in sign up for over a month, and there's still only 10 people who signed up. With three hydras in it, there literally is no one else who can join.

DG has like 5-7 games up with higher player requirements then there are people

get marshy to kidnap people from this back room and drag them here, or scrap all the games and just go to minis

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

That isn't what the problem is.

That's entirely what the problem is. It's a competition that no one's trying to win.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

That's entirely what the problem is. It's a competition that no one's trying to win.

That's not it though, not the main issue. The main issue is DGames atm doesn't have enough people to support a 13 man game anymore or at least enough interest with what is current.

Competition is not the main issue, the main issue if even without it getting 13 people is pretty much out of the question.

 

[Maven89]

yeah again Gheb's game has been in sign ups for a month needing 14 people, there's four slots open and no one left to join, even if it was the only game here it'd still be in sign up

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I didn't buy that so I checked every open set-up at the moment that wasn't Zen's (one because it has absolutely no sign-ups, the other because its sign-ups are irrelevant as the game won't start until December even if it fills).

G3S Players: Marshy/Kary, Gorf, Jexs, Chaco/Rajam, Ruy/Badwolf, Dietz, Maven, Mac, Orbo, Nabe, Potato (11 slots, 13 players)
UTrick'd: Maven, Orbo, Glyfe, Stew, Chaco (5 slots, 5 players, 3 repeat, 2 different)
UScrew: Marshy/Stew (1 slot, 2 players, 2 repeat)
"****ty Mafia": Jexs, Ashemu, Marshy/Stew, Potato, Orbo, Gorf, Ryker, Dark Horse, Nabe, Rajam, Laundry (13 slots, 14 players, 9 repeat, 4 different)
Blazblue: Orbo, Raz, Maven, Chaco, Ruy, Nabe, Bardull (7 slots, 7 players, 5 repeat, 2 different).
Swag: PJB, Chaco, Ryker, Gheb, Laundry (5 slots, 5 players, 3 repeat, 2 different)

G3S could run right now if Gheb forced the hydras into separate playerslots. That's already 13 players, more than you claim are on the site right now. Not including that, there's another 12 players sprinkled throughout different games that aren't Gheb's. That's not "less than 13", that's "25 individuals still signed up for a mafia game". Player count is not an issue.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

NB: That's not taking into account personal player issues, priorities, etc. I simply did a body count because I didn't believe we were below 13 players. We've never been below 13 players.

 

[Maven89]

oh huh you're right

i vote the game mods fight each other to the death, surviving two keep their games

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I think the issue lies on both sides of the spectrum. Hosts aren't doing a good enough job on hosting, at all. No single game looks more interesting than the others because all of them (except for Nabe's) are closed set-ups. I'm not sure how you sell a mafia game being interesting without exposing the set-up though. It's easier for some people (read: OS) to throw games out there and get sign-ups based on name but there are a fair few capable of doing it. For some people, name can even work against them. Flavor itself isn't good enough anymore albeit it works for some people (see: Raz's name in the Blazblue sign-ups and nowhere else).

Players also need to cut bait and fill a set-up sometimes. We've got 4 other games beyond G3S that are currently in sign-ups and 12 unique players between them that aren't in G3S. All we need is a quarter of that number to join G3S to get that game going. No matter how intriguing a game looks to you, if it's having issues filling, there's no reason in waiting for that game to fill.

EDIT: I also wanna emphasize that there's little shame in putting your name into multiple games and then removing it if you don't wanna play in more than one or two at a time. It helps get games going which is what we need right now. Don't be afraid to be a **** in this environment because it's gonna help things get going.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

G3S could run right now if Gheb forced the hydras into separate playerslots.

I can't break them up because these players - Zen, Kary, Marshy, Rajam - will not play outside of a hydra. Breaking them up would shrink the list of players down to 9 or 10.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I can't break them up because these players - Zen, Kary, Marshy, Rajam - will not play outside of a hydra. Breaking them up would shrink the list of players down to 9 or 10.

NB: That's not taking into account personal player issues, priorities, etc. I simply did a body count because I didn't believe we were below 13 players. We've never been below 13 players.

edit: yeh it's a bit poorly worded, my bad.