Then talk to me falco dittos on aim sometimes.
On Shiz and mango aggression point. I can't consider Mango a rush-down player but I'll give that to Shiz but he has a lot of problems with certain match ups which I believe are related to his overall style of play.
Mango's style changes depending on the match up so I don't wanna say he's rush down. I guess you mostly play him in a dittos and vs. fox. However, in those Match ups aggression pays off and mango's decisions are still controlled and dependent on his position in neutral so I still can't put him in that category.
Something even more interesting! In an old conversation with Amsah on skype about play-styles he mentioned that mango has no style or definition. This quote can be useful for you Kevin. Consider this, maybe the difference we're seeing is only there because that's the way his water-like style fills in your mold. We might just have a different definition on aggressive play but I feel this is the case for Mango.
He played really safe and methodical against Mew2king in that old 09 set(really good example of marth vs. falco for any Falco players reading. fo real) and vs. Armada in his genesis set. He treated Amsah differently though(more aggro)in those old friendly sets though if I recall correctly. Those were friendlies though so I can't really say that's his mind set vs. Shiek but mango is definitely one to play different out of tournament
I agree that "rush-down" can work but I think you'd still need a very strong neutral game because I think you'd need to be in uncomfortable spacing all the time. Which is something I think mango does actually.. but I can already think of some Match Ups where Falco can't really do that. (Marth) When I watch Shiz or axe.. it feels like this: OK I GOT AN IDEA HOW TO **** THIS GUY UP WITH THIS MIX UP > GO... AW **** THAT DIDN'T WORK OK I'LL DO THIS NOW!!! **** **** **** **** ****.
Tell me what you think of all this and I'd also like you to go into more depth about mango and Shiz's styles. In particular why they work and the flaws (If any in mango's department haha.) You tried to explain Shiz to me long ago but it was pretty brief and my view on smash wasn't as sharp as it is now.
It really says a lot about the strength of this character that he can be played so many different ways and still be effective to a high degree.
@Josh I wasn't saying Falco can win vs. good players mindlessly.. I was saying he can get away with being mindless and still be somewhat effective at lower-mid levels of play. The other characters cannot do that... It's one of the reasons why people have such a hard time fighting him and ***** so much. The best way to put it is.. if a fox and a Falco player sat down with each other for a week fresh off the boat the Falco would probably have the upper hand at first if the player got a hold of his technical skills because Falco's raw options are more overwhelming than fox's with out a deep look at the match up. That's all I meant. Yeah people really do need to the learn the match up and stop *****ing but it's immutable that Falco is a very specific match for any character. It's like Jiggly puff for us.
Mango prefers approaching and he keeps his spacing tight on people rather than relaxing and shooting lasers at times. In this way, he's not aggressive so much as approach-oriented, which is perfectly fine because he makes it work, but it's still hard to pull off/be effective with consistently(unless you're Mango, but I'll break why he can do that down after I watch me vs him probably).
I don't really categorize Mango as having a style so much as just wanting to approach. I'm okay with Amsah saying that.
I'd say Mango has found ways to attack sooner vs other characters but I'll hold off on that point until he proves it later. Basically yeah he just plays smart and keeps tight spacing.
Shiz is aggressive I guess but he's not really methodical about it. He uses more simple tricks to keep his approaches mixed up and relies on the fact that his opponent will be offguard vs Falco more often(which works out for him a lot actually). Mango isn't busy goofing off either but he waits around and does more tricks to keep himself incredibly hard to read as well as watch the opponent and determine his methods of attacking.
I mean other characters could be played that way too but it just isn't working out that way for some bizarre reason.
Everyone has to play different vs Puff. I mean really, ideally, there's a distinct way to fight each better character through like Ganon/Samus/Doc, but no one looks at it like that so I just pretend that that way of playing doesn't exist.
The only reason I play Falco is because of Fox. I ****ing hate playing against Fox.
I'm starting to transition into Fox dittos, but Fox is just too ****ing fast sometimes.
While I rarely feel like I'm in control of a match to begin with, I never feel like I'm in control of a match when I'm playing against a Fox. (Unless I'm legit better than them, which is a rarity.)
With Falco I know I'll have lasers, reliable shield pressure, and fairly simple auto combos to start larger combos, not to mention dair/bair or fsmash/dsmash edgegaurds...
idk what the point of this post was...
Falco has no "reliable shield pressure."
i feel you bro
though i think u can learn more of ur options vs fox by watching ur matches and comparing them to how upper level players play (and win)
should be elaborated on by looking at things like what you missed and how pros hit it, what you couldn't cover and how they did, how you moved vs how they moved, how you comboed vs how they comboed, how you conditioned vs how they did, etc.
that's true, but basically all of the videos I have right now are me messing up a lot and not actually playing well enough to compare.
I'm hoping to see something different with the new videos the Ocean got the other day at Josh's, since I was actually playing well
There's always something to get out of your videos because you're playing in them. No one who plays is continuously messing up so there's material to learn from. You just have to ignore the foul-ups or accept them as things you do if they happen often enough and work on fixing them.
Plus if you see why you messed up a lot maybe it can give you clues about why you did and you can work on bringing yourself out of a bad day.
same here, but i still think hey can help a lot
if u can pinpoint ur specific errors, given that they are mostly tech errors, you can practice alone those rote techniques and just do it again and again until u are more consistent
consistency is more "fixable" than people tend to think
thoughts pp? lol
Consistency is funny and vague and something I don't feel like addressing lol.
I dunno, I watch videos and the stuff they do makes since. . . and then I try to do it and it doesn't work. I really need to just get a human to sit there and hold the controller and di in different ways while I practice comboing. . .
I think I'm actually just better at juggling than I am at comboing, and so many combos vs. the floatier characters are really just continuous option coverage from below. I need to get better at my straight up combos.
Juggling is great if you a take a FF'ers DJ.
But yeah if you have to then just get someone to help you practice combos. They kinda vary though so you'll be testing often lol.
