Lack of Marths...

[SinceEternity]

how come it seems like there are so many falcos/foxes/falcons but there's like no marths at the competitive level? or even if there are marths most seem to main something else... is there something I'm missing here? I would assume people would main marth since everyone complains about it all the time about how gay his range is or whatnot and yet I see no one winning tournys with him except obviously M2K, sometimes Cactuar and Taj... but that's about it o_O

 

[Cactuar]

Because Marth beats noobs and loses to good players.

 

[SinceEternity]

so marth is harder to perfect and a tech-reliant character would do better in the long run? seriously, I barely know any marths at all but they all tell me marth is the best >_>... and then they proceed to shine/laser/needle spam me and I can't handle the pressure and lose, k.

edit: though i realize a large majority of my shortcomings is just my below par skill level, I am just curious why the hell I never/rarely see marth tourny vids in contrast to weekly updated vids of the other top/high tiers

 

[Smash G 0 D]

It takes longer for new Marth players to learn to play Fox Falco and Falcon than vice versa

 

[SinceEternity]

hmm..... but most people on the competitive level have been playing for years already, on a sidenote - then marth isn't the best choice if you're just starting out? (inferior to falco,fox,falcon)

 

[Binx]

Marth takes more experience at the game itself to do well, you need to have a good working knowledge of spacing and prediction to get people off the edge with him, also his edge guarding game may or may not be as straight forward for most people.

 

[SinceEternity]

i see, i guess marth learning curve is the hardest then! who would've imagined the character with the longest range is the hardest to use in the end >_>

EDIT: I guess the real question: Is Marth actually "top tier" if he is SO hard to master? I doubt anyone has "perfected" any character yet, but Marth just seems to do worse and worse as the metagame progresses nearer to perfection imo. I feel that Marth is the weakest of the top tiers at withstanding pressure and at higher speeds of play, especially when all the other top tiers approach with projectiles...

 

[Roche_CL]

i win tourneys :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F11UOcKn5hU
but i would lose in the US xD

but i agree with the above, new players tend to use fast fallers and sheik, can make nice results on tourneys. Easy chars xP

 

[SinceEternity]

GF only out of three rounds? But, nice Marth you got there though hehe. well... at least Marth can spacies, woot! Now I know why so many marth plays second fox or falco.... easier to play! lol jk

 

[Mokumo]

i see, i guess marth learning curve is the hardest then! who would've imagined the character with the longest range is the hardest to use in the end >_>

EDIT: I guess the real question: Is Marth actually "top tier" if he is SO hard to master? I doubt anyone has "perfected" any character yet, but Marth just seems to do worse and worse as the metagame progresses nearer to perfection imo. I feel that Marth is the weakest of the top tiers at withstanding pressure and at higher speeds of play, especially when all the other top tiers approach with projectiles...

honestly i'm no marth main or anything but there's no doubt in my mind that he is easily one of the best characters in the game.

just my 2 cents

 

[SinceEternity]

I also feel that marth is one of the best, I'm just looking for the reason why Marth isn't as viable competitively (at least performance and placing wise) if he is one of the best, there must be a reason why people like PC and Cort among others play extremely good marth during friendlies but decide not to ever use him for tournys or rarely(I mean... just examples).
Is is because marth has stopped being like crazed over and constantly developed on, is he boring to play and all the people would rather play spacies instead? or is everything already there and marth just can't an answer as the other top tiers become more and more aggressive....

 

[Roche_CL]

GF only out of three rounds? But, nice Marth you got there though hehe. well... at least Marth can spacies, woot! Now I know why so many marth plays second fox or falco.... easier to play! lol jk

it was really best of 5, but i won 3 in a row
against spacies are the most entertaining matchups marth has. Marth's edgeguarding is so sexy, so many posibilities. I think there are like 2 attacks marth can't use for edgeguard.
I think marth players second those chars for playnig the difficult or boring matchups, like falcon or sheik (difficult) and peach, samus or jigs (boring, well...any jigs matchup is boring xD).
I prefer going falcon against floaties, much more fun :D

 

[The Irish Mafia]

He's adapt to the point where maining him isn't necessary. His metagame is simple to master, so it's a better idea to work with a character that you can apply yourself to more.


If you think there's no competitive level marths, look at ROM losers finals match 4

 

[Roche_CL]

He's adapt to the point where maining him isn't necessary. His metagame is simple to master, so it's a better idea to work with a character that you can apply yourself to more.


If you think there's no competitive level marths, look at ROM losers finals match 4

I think you should read better the first post o.o

 

[SinceEternity]

oops, I just naturally assumed tha people dont win GF in straight matches haha - forgot about that.
and lol... tbh RoM losers final 4 is EXACTLY what I'm talking about, shiz hella overpressured m2k even on YS, ofc M2K rarely loses and gets the crucial gimps at the end - but seriously onstage no one can do anything about space animals and their combos.
and in terms of applying yourself more, I guess I can understand that fox/falcoes can get a lot more back from their "tech" skill while in the end marth still only has spacing.

 

[BananaTrooper]

He's adapt to the point where maining him isn't necessary.

Wtf are you talking about?

Marth's game is incredibly matchup dependent, more so than any top/high tier that I can think of. Try beating a competent space animal/falcon/sheik with no idea what to do, youll get ****ing destroyed.
marth ***** noobs, but if you think choosing marth = autowin against any decent player you evidently don't know the character very well.

His metagame is simple to master, so it's a better idea to work with a character that you can apply yourself more.

The only reason you DON'T see tons of marths take tourney wins is because he's ****ing difficult to win with. High level marth play takes brains. Easy to master? LOL

If you think there's no competitive level marths, look at ROM losers finals match 4

reread the OP.

If you think marth is easy to play against competent players, play marth more.

 

[soap]

"my character is soooo hard to master"

no johns please.

fox is better, get over it.

 

[SinceEternity]

LOL, that is so true soap. I was just kinda curious what other people felt, it's not that marth is so hard to master - it's more the fact that people keep telling me I have the gayest and most unbalanced character when they play stupid space animals or sheik. They always complain about my "hella" range or w/e when they don't respect marth as a character that actually requires skill. But yeah, I just wanted some affirmation in the fact that Marth is by no means the ****ing easiest character to play just because all we have to do is use fair - which SO isn't true sigh.

 

[BananaTrooper]

"my character is soooo hard to master"

no johns please.

fox is better, get over it.

who's johnning


he said in his post that it isnt worth maining marth - because he thinks getting good with marth is easy. I got pissed off.

 

[Europhoria]

Marth is different then the other top tiers. Iunno, his moves out slower and he doesn't cover himself all that well because it takes his aerials a while to reach his feet/floatiness of his jump >_>. But he has a lot more range and of the top 4 he probably has the best recovery. He at least doesn't gimped terribly by it. Sheik's pretty gay though. Marth has a couple random close match ups like DK and Ganon, but they're even or adv. Marth. So screw that

It doesn't make him worse, just different. I think people just prefer Fox. That's who all the Marth's are going too it seems *points at Cactuar* Look what you've started! Play Marth again jerk

tl;dr. Sheik and Fox are better then Marth, but not by much. All 3 of them **** most of the cast anyways.

 

[otg]

Best recovery of the 4 eh? *lightsheild edgehog cough cough*

 

[o_Pulse_o]

I think Marth is more of a smarts character, anyone can just spam his smashes and such, but knowing his range as stated before and other key elements decide if you know how to use him or not.

 

[Europhoria]

Best recovery of the 4 eh? *lightsheild edgehog cough cough*

It's between him and Sheik. >_> I think Marth recovers better against Fox and maybe Falco. No one edgeguards Sheik better then herself though. *edgehog to stand up and CG*

 

[soap]

edgehog to cg is a pro combo.

 

[Cactuar]

*points at Cactuar* Look what you've started! Play Marth again jerk

I'm working on it.

I'm gonna be shifting Fox to my secondary again soon. Plus picking up a new super secret secondary for extra ****.

 

[Europhoria]

>_> It's Ganon isn't it?

 

[Cactuar]

Lol. It is not Ganon.

 

[Brightside6382]

Marth is one of the harder characters to use at higher levels of play since if he misses anything that = combo/stock.

 

[soap]

Marth is one of the harder characters to use at higher levels of play since if he misses anything that = combo/stock.

You can swing and miss alot and be safe if u space good.

like the m2k retreating shdf nonsense, hard to punish consistently.

and combo/stock is true for like every non-floaty character

 

[Niko45]

Marth is one of the harder characters to use at higher levels of play since if he misses anything that = combo/stock.

This is on point. He cannot shine after his moves so you need to be making sure ur moves are connecting or spaced properly at all times. Retreating SHDF doesn't count as being able to miss since u don't have a shot at hitting them if they don't attack and all the top tiers can just projectile you if you really want to do that. He's not a tech-heavy character but decision making is huge. He combos really efficiently so ur often left with multiple options for follow ups, in which case you need to be economical with ur move selections and be very aware of percents, options, etc.

I think his recovery is the best of the 4. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure if he has the side B's if he isn't KO'd outright by a standard knockback direction attack (IE fox bair) he should be able to make it back with no up B which means he should be just about impossible to edgeguard if played correctly. Hence why fox LS edgeguard doesn't work unless that first bair is going to kill outright.

Probably the most developed character in the game since marth mains have been on top forever and that also means the anti-marth game plan is the most developed as well. You gotta watch out for a lot of **** to play marth well all about patience and decision making. If we were talking neutrals only I def think he's tied with fox at the top.

 

[Havokbringer]

Well one of the greater advantages of playing marth is that he is easier to be consistent with then Spacies and Shiek.

 

[RomeDogg]

I totally disagree with most of you Marth is the easiest top tier character to learn how to play and win with, well him or sheik. Marth ***** spacies with chaingrabs, air attacks, easy spike combos etc. Marths arials eat throw most projectiles. The character can grab u from a mile away for god sake. On the other hand you have to be careful when ur fox or falco cause getting hit ussually cost u a stock because pretty much any character can combo spacies to death. Also the spacies have generally complicated combos and Marth has combos that are extremely easy to learn and he has that **** chaingrab + easy tech chase ability. You do realize asides from his broken grab he has a broken f-smash. Marths sword isnt part of his body and he has fast moves with little lag so its pretty easy to space with him and yeah his grab has more reach than his character model so if he messes up at times he can grab pretty quickly from a pretty safe distance. His recovery cant get gimped easily like the spacies recoveries. He can stall with forward b on his way back and he can also attack on his way back with that move or f-air to help safeguard a recovery. His up b is fast as **** so ppl ussually dont go off the stage after him cause they can get stage spiked if they get hit by it unless they wall tech and his swords blade comes slightly above the levels edge to make edgeguarding kind of hard unless u pwoershield by the edge i guess. He can also use his up-b on recovering spacies if hit with the bottom part of it which leads to death. He is also pretty light so he doesnt get comboed as easily as falco, fox and shiek do. I could go on forever. Seriously though Ken was the best during his era M2k is likely the best now but its argueable. Anyway their primary character is marth. Coincidence?

 

[Brightside6382]

I totally disagree with most of you Marth is the easiest top tier character to learn how to play and win with, well him or sheik. Marth ***** spacies with chaingrabs, air attacks, easy spike combos etc. Marths arials eat throw most projectiles. The character can grab u from a mile away for god sake. On the other hand you have to be careful when ur fox or falco cause getting hit ussually cost u a stock because pretty much any character can combo spacies to death. Also the spacies have generally complicated combos and Marth has combos that are extremely easy to learn and he has that **** chaingrab + easy tech chase ability. You do realize asides from his broken grab he has a broken f-smash. Marths sword isnt part of his body and he has fast moves with little lag so its pretty easy to space with him and yeah his grab has more reach than his character model so if he messes up at times he can grab pretty quickly from a pretty safe distance. His recovery cant get gimped easily like the spacies recoveries. He can stall with forward b on his way back and he can also attack on his way back with that move or f-air to help safeguard a recovery. His up b is fast as **** so ppl ussually dont go off the stage after him cause they can get stage spiked if they get hit by it unless they wall tech and his swords blade comes slightly above the levels edge to make edgeguarding kind of hard unless u pwoershield by the edge i guess. He can also use his up-b on recovering spacies if hit with the bottom part of it which leads to death. He is also pretty light so he doesnt get comboed as easily as falco, fox and shiek do. I could go on forever. Seriously though Ken was the best during his era M2k is likely the best now but its argueable. Anyway their primary character is marth. Coincidence?

Yeah since these 2 players were the best during their era's and they used Marth that MUST mean he is easy to use. Now lets look at all the other Marth players who are at these players same level... oh wait... not many... Now lets think of Fox's/Falco's at this same level, a HELL of a lot more.

By your logic since Mango is the new dominating player Jiggly must be **** easy to use. I mean that can't be a coincidence right?

 

[Stratford]

Yea I was thinking about this lack of Marths too...

We'll just have to wait for Mang0's Marth.

It's coming.

Fear.

 

[BananaTrooper]

I totally disagree with most of you Marth is the easiest top tier character to learn how to play and win with, well him or sheik. Marth ***** spacies with chaingrabs, air attacks, easy spike combos etc. Marths arials eat throw most projectiles. The character can grab u from a mile away for god sake. On the other hand you have to be careful when ur fox or falco cause getting hit ussually cost u a stock because pretty much any character can combo spacies to death. Also the spacies have generally complicated combos and Marth has combos that are extremely easy to learn and he has that **** chaingrab + easy tech chase ability. You do realize asides from his broken grab he has a broken f-smash. Marths sword isnt part of his body and he has fast moves with little lag so its pretty easy to space with him and yeah his grab has more reach than his character model so if he messes up at times he can grab pretty quickly from a pretty safe distance. His recovery cant get gimped easily like the spacies recoveries. He can stall with forward b on his way back and he can also attack on his way back with that move or f-air to help safeguard a recovery. His up b is fast as **** so ppl ussually dont go off the stage after him cause they can get stage spiked if they get hit by it unless they wall tech and his swords blade comes slightly above the levels edge to make edgeguarding kind of hard unless u pwoershield by the edge i guess. He can also use his up-b on recovering spacies if hit with the bottom part of it which leads to death. He is also pretty light so he doesnt get comboed as easily as falco, fox and shiek do. I could go on forever. Seriously though Ken was the best during his era M2k is likely the best now but its argueable. Anyway their primary character is marth. Coincidence?

Based off of pure numbers alone, you're wrong. Marth can't be the easiest to play well with, because there are FAR many more spacies/high tiers that dominate tourneys. Marth is top of top tier, and yet there's likely 4 or 5 space animals in high tourney placings for each marth. Think about it.

Youre listing every reason why marth is a good character. You want me to list all the reasons spacies ****? fox uthrow to uair alone makes half the cast unplayable.

No one said marth was difficult to play technically (at least comparatively), which is what I think youre really talking about. Taking marth and doing well with him in competition is another matter. Marth sounds easy on paper.

 

[Teczer0]

Cactus should play falco. I would be very interested to see Cactus picking up a falco.

I think the best recovery goes to fox =/.

And as few marths there are, there are probably fewer sheiks

 

[soap]

i saw a cactuar tourney falco vid against pakman luigi.

he controls space really well.

really old vid though.

 

[Teczer0]

Well Cactuar plays just about anyone well cuz of his general knowledge.

I played his roy in pools and I lost sight of it LMFAO.

I saw him play sheik too, and his sheik is better than mine lol.

But like they are different from his fox who he obviously has more experience with. I'd like to see him play his falco with that type of experience with it .

 

[Cactuar]

Okies. I'm currently working on getting my Marth back as my main and switching Fox to my secondary, as well as picking up Roy as another secondary. After that, I'll start playing more Falco. ^^

 

[SinceEternity]

yays, cactuar comes back as a marth main :D