Kuja's (In)Complete Guide to Making Sonic an annoying ___!

[samper]

I spent about an hour and a half trying to do the Fair reflect trick, but couldn't replicate it (granted I tried it on samus' charge beam and lucas' PK fire since I didn't have Lucario unlocked then). A few times I could match the projectile if I just nicked it to get around the charge beam, though PK fire would always explode and hit me anyway, but I'll keep trying.

Also, I'm not sure about shield canceling the Dair lag, best I've been able to do is make it look like I'm ending the lag a little early by shielding before Sonic actually stands back up.

As a side note, I found out that at low percents if you hit with the first hop of the forward spin charge, hold forward, and mash jump you get a free footstool jump. Kinda useless most of the time but it looks cool and you can follow it up with a Dair sometimes.

-edit- Like twinkletoes, I tried doing it from a distance mostly, so I guess it's so I guess I'll have to try a little bit closer. You wouldn't happen to have a video of this, would you Zeal?

 

[TwinkleToes]

Kuja, something similar to that but different: http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=4115881&postcount=16

If you go to the first post of the thread you'll find the video that the thread-starter provided. I haven't tried edge guarding with it yet but I'm fairly certain that against certain characters this will make their recovery much harder. And I know for a fact that most people have no idea that Sonic can do this because... well even most Sonic players don't know Sonic can do it.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Samper, I wish I had it on video. It was just a random match against lmnz lucario. If it helps any, it was on smashville.

I really have no idea how I did it. I wish I did. D:

Kuja, I have some variations on that that are pretty effective. All the SD is good for is getting out to the stupid angles quickly. If they attack, you're going to be outprioritized by them. D:

EDIT: Sonic players have been having trouble with Pit? Odd, I thought that match-up was ridiculously easy, especially when all they do is try to camp. I think I've lost like... 2 matches out of the 20 or so I've played against Pits, and those two were in the beginning. =/

Spindash past arrows, get him off the stage, and then GG as soon as he does the wings. It only takes one hit, and he's dead. Keep him low.

 

[DarkKnight077]

Fair-reflect works on Samus's missiles...like very rarely, especially when the player smashes the missiles. The beam well not as often.

I have trouble against Ike and Marth. Their range kills me. :[ Sad times especially since Sonic doesn't have any range at all. D: Effin lame.

I'm gonna try today ledgehop Down-B to see if anything comes up like a sliding animation or like something weird.

I'll report later today what I found.

 

[Zellsfalco]

yeah, really if ur having trouble with pit, u really need some work on ur sonic.
Pit i think is one of the easiest match-ups. just be aggressive (-.-)

 

[InterimOfZeal]

DK, if you could get videos up, that'd be great. Then maybe we could analyze it and figure out how it happens.

Ledgehop >b is better, IMHO. Since he climbs edges, you can charge it for longer.

 

[TwinkleToes]

What do you mean charge it for longer? Can you charge it while wall climbing or something?

 

[Deathwish238]

Spindash past arrows, get him off the stage, and then GG as soon as he does the wings. It only takes one hit, and he's dead. Keep him low.

what do you mean by GG?? what i do is i hit him with the spring if i can =]

 

[InterimOfZeal]

GG=good game. Means he's done for.

Twinkle, I mean you can get it to go a little faster/get almost a full charge before releasing with the wall-climb, so you're more likely to catch them unawares/not get grabbed.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

There's something I want to talk about. It's not a Sonic exclusive thing, nor is it new, anyone can do it, but for Sonic it can do wonders.

I refer to it as Aggressive Defense.

Why are you trying to launch an attack against someone who outpaces you? Why are you getting countered by someone who didn't do their homework? Simple enough, don't try. Instead, to approach someone who's on the attack, go for the pwn by using Aggressive Defense.

For example, say Peach has knocked you upward, and is now in a position to where she can smack you any which way. Instead of launching an attack, try PRETENDING to launch an attack, then fake out and dodge at the last second. Nigh unapproachable characters like Luigi are a bit easier to deal with since you can catch them off guard by telegraphing one move and then doing another. You can also deal with campers by aggressively approaching and dodging them before going in for the kill.

Not putting this front page yet, I want to see if this is good idea or not.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Yeah, Sonic's kinda the poster-child for fakeouts. Run up to them, and stop right inside their range with a >B. You'll pull just outside of it, and their grab/attack will miss, netting you a combo. Gogogo, Sonic.

Sonic is also one of the better characters for pressure games. Don't relent, and don't EVER let them set the pace. That's when Sonic loses, is when he slows down. Really, his speed is all he has.

 

[DarkKnight077]

I'll try.

Dunno I want to see what happens when I use Down B though maybe something happens during the frames.

 

[TwinkleToes]

I wouldn't say his speed is ALL he has, more like his ability to confuse is all he has. Speed is obviously a part of that as you don't want to give people time to think, but having different things you can do in many situations is a huge part of making Sonic work against a human player.

And as for aggressive defense, I find shield-grab canceling a dash works well if used every now and then.

 

[Ereki]

I just have a question in regards to Sonic's Homing Attack.

I was practicing in Training mode to somewhat imitate the video that would cancel out, or 'gimp' [Am I using the right term? I'm sort of new to all this terminology outside of just knowing Wave-dashing and 'SHFFL'.] his recovery move.

However, every time I take a hold of DK and attempt to do a Back throw, he ends up going upwards or downwards, randomly. And if that weren't the only issue, when I try to use the Homing attack, it either misses, or hits him right back onto the stage.

1.) Would the angle of how DK flies off vary depending on what I input, or Directional influence [Or whatever it may be called, if it's even the correct term]?

2.) How do I properly utilize the Homing attack? I couldn't clearly understand from the explanation.

 

[TwinkleToes]

1)There's nothing you can do that will influence the direction DK flies after you throw him. He, however, can DI in a direction that would position him more favorably.

2) Hm, if you're hitting 'b' once, hit it twice to make it go faster. If you're already doing that, only hit it once and see if the timing improves. If none of that helps, you must be using it at a weird angle for it to miss.

 

[Ereki]

Alright, thanks. I really need to look up the terminology and such later on, but continuing with my second question, it's rather odd, really. It's either I do hit him, and it assists him back onto the stage, or I miss completely and have to sacrifice the spring to get back on stage [Unless user/computer is acting as ledgehog]. Could tilting the control stick in a direction alter how I would hit, or - ?

 

[TwinkleToes]

As far as I know, the move is self controlling and the path cannot be altered by the user.

I guess you must be hitting him on the side that is further away from the stage. Otherwise, he would be bounced back. Like I said before, you're angle must be what's screwing it up.

 

[Ionizer]

Thanks for the great guide. Since I don't have online capabilities (yet, knock on wood), I can only play with my siblings. While my brother and sisters are pretty good (or I just flat out suck), they refuse to play 1 on 1. Sonic really doesn't have what it takes for FFA matches. Unless I'm using him wrong in big brawls, which is a good possibility. I just cannot kill anyone during a FFA match. Oh well, I'll get the hang of it eventually, i hope.

Sonic was definitely the character I was most looking forward to pre-release, and now that I have the game, I can safely say he's my favorite (but not quite my best yet) character.

Also:

"You're too slow!"

 

[DarkKnight077]

Anyways I forgot to get the footage. *faceplam* But....it doesn't work on Mario, Luigi and ICs. Their projectiles are too close to the ground. And sometimes really random. Haven't tried Pit, Link or Toon Link yet. Or none of the spacies.

 

[Badakin]

Ive been looking at this thread a lot lately and ive been meaning to ask when are the most opportune times for a >b?

 

[TwinkleToes]

There's no right answer to that question. There are a lot of opportunities to use a side b that will work on some characters but not others. Best thing I can say is that given all you know about the technical aspects of Sonic's b-moves you need to find out for yourself.

In general though, I find it works ok for closing a large distance when I'm transitioning from the air to the ground. So maybe I bair someone, charge side/down b, hit the ground and release it and use it as a follow up. I won't say it's fool proof since people can DI up and away from you but it can definitely help cut down on wasted time.

 

[Kyd]

i personally use <B when knocked off the stage. It's best to use it as soon as you ragain balance but before you use you air jump. After using it, air jump to regain control of SOnic (and if you are still far from the edge, you can either use B or ^B). I dont use homing attack because its unreliable if you're too far, it just shoots down.

question: i dont have internet so i cant face advanced players at home, but is upsmash a good mindgame from a distance, because it has a resemblance to homing attack.

 

[xatm092]

I wanted to main sonic as soon as I first played as him and thanks to you I think it'll be possible.

 

[Lyoncet]

question: i dont have internet so i cant face advanced players at home, but is upsmash a good mindgame from a distance, because it has a resemblance to homing attack.

From what I've seen, no. The startup animation is very distinctive, and the movement is very different than the Homing Attack. Really, the only "Which move am I doing?!" trick that seems to have much use is the dsmash/downb switch, since they make the same sounds and look somewhat similar.

 

[BDawgPHD]

lol at the last part of your post since i intend to annoy everyone with that taunt

my friend taunted a Samus that had a fully charged shot with the s-taunt.......


....he lost the match, but he totally won at everything forever.

 

[memphischains]

To add to the spin chasing idea, you can spin chased to the other side of the level for an edgehog. sometimes the back air will shoot your opponent in the other direction and you have to chase him down, and after reading about the dash chasing i chased to the edge and used sonics edge tactics. does that make sense?

if they are at a high enough percentages you might not even have to do anything but hang on the edge.

 

[jimmy4265]

alright alright

i hope to have sonic be my main one day....just to see the look on ike-users faces when i pwn their *****

 

[BDawgPHD]

I'm not good enough to use Sonic against my friends....I'm not comfortable with a lot of his moves, like his side b, which seems really slow to me, compared to the rest of Sonic, and it seems pretty easy to catch/dodge. Also, what exactly does downB do? =/

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Try charging it. Same goes for vB

 

[Coen]

Man, I enjoyed this guide. I figured Sonic out by myself, but <3 you for explaining how Sonic REALLY works for all those people out there. Hate to admit it, but I'm so tired of all those people who can't seem to play Sonic at all x_x Hopefully this will give them at least a clue.

Also, I'd like to see matchups. Especially vs the priority whores named Pit, Meta Knight etc. And vs Toon Link seems practically impossible. Whenever his sword's out, no matter which attack he uses, he just outprioritizes everything in your whole freaking arsenal xD Also, those projectiles are just too whory.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Coen, everyone's everything ever outprioritizes you. Srsly.

I haven't played a TL in 2 or so weeks, so I dunno what to say. Since I have no experience in the matter, it seems like he'd be a pretty solid counter for Sonic, or at least a hard match-up, given his amazing aerial game, projectiles, and general lack of openings when played right. That said, I haven't done the match-up yet, so gimme some time.

Pit is ******** easy, MK is an eh match, but Sonic does well enough, as long as you don't just go running into his attacks.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

Wow, this thread has really gone places I hadn't imagine it would. Thanks guys. I'm glad I've helped so many people.

Also go check the first page, I split the Homing Attack into its own section and added a new idea.

 

[LuCKy]

lol i love this guide *thumbs up*

 

[MarKO X]

I've noticed that down smash with Sonic is the closest thing to a kill move.

Bair is also quite effective.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Fsmash is strooooooooonger.

 

[BDawgPHD]

Fsmash is strooooooooonger.

Fsmash is like mario's in terms of lag, only a tad bit slower and more obvious.

 

[thumbswayup]

useful thread.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Bdawg, that's just the wind up lag. If you're charging it up, it's just as effective as a lot of other smashes because the actual part where the hitbox comes out is pretty fast. Which is why I love it to death when I'm edge guarding Metaknight and Pit. Usually if it lands it will send people that light to an instant death at 85%.

Also, if you stutter step it, the wind up lag can be slightly overcome. Still, I usually only use it on people that are already off the edge.

 

[BDawgPHD]

Bdawg, that's just the wind up lag. If you're charging it up, it's just as effective as a lot of other smashes because the actual part where the hitbox comes out is pretty fast. Which is why I love it to death when I'm edge guarding Metaknight and Pit. Usually if it lands it will send people that light to an instant death at 85%.

Also, if you stutter step it, the wind up lag can be slightly overcome. Still, I usually only use it on people that are already off the edge.

I know, man, but most people don't get hit by fsmashes from sonic, they either know better or don't attack sonic directly with a dash attack or dashing grab. Sonic is hard to fight aggressively due to his speed, but he's easy to outprioritize and just outplay. There's no point in charging in unless you're a fast character, and if you are, you're going to beat Sonic to his smash attack, and if you're slow, you're not going to charge in for an attack. His fsmash is very situational, even with foxtrotting (i think that's what you're talking about)

 

[TwinkleToes]

No no no. I meant actually charging up the attack by holding a. Which, granted, is really only something you can do if someone is returning to the stage, but I prefer it that way since it's almost never diminished when I use it.

I've stopped trying to f-smash people when they're over the stage even when I think I can land it because f-tilting is just more reliable and it's strong enough to get people off the edge anyways.