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KSSU: Helper to Hero Mafia/Newbie 11 - Game Over!

Gova

I'm goin' for it!
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Takicodos
1. Ranmaru (1) Joey
2. July ()
3. -Joey- ()
4. Dark Horse (1) Nabe
5. The Good Doctor (4) X1-12, Ranmaru, Dourin-X, Dark Horse
6. Dourin-X (1) The Good Doctor
7. Oki ()
8. X1-12 ()
9. Nabe ()

Not voting: Oki, July

With 9 playing, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is January 9th at 11:59 PM CST ( -6 GMT)
 

X1-12

Smash Champion
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TGD is L-1.

July said she'd be back to hammer, but tbh if anyone is around and not already voting him then doing so now is probably a good idea.
 

X1-12

Smash Champion
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In a min the mod will come in and reveal his "flip" (his role and alignment) and start the Night Phase. Good Doctor will be out of the game now since he's dead, but he's allowed to post until mod announces the end of the Day (This is Twilight)
 

Gova

I'm goin' for it!
Joined
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Messages
1,274
Location
Austin, TX
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Takicodos
1. Ranmaru (1) Joey
2. July ()
3. -Joey- ()
4. Dark Horse (1) Nabe
5. The Good Doctor (5) X1-12, Ranmaru, Dourin-X, Dark Horse, July
6. Dourin-X (1) The Good Doctor
7. Oki ()
8. X1-12 ()
9. Nabe ()

Not voting: Oki



The Good Doctor (Sir Kibble, Vanilla Townie) has been hurt!


Night 1 Begins! All actions are due January 12th at 11:59 PM CST (-6 GMT)
 

Gova

I'm goin' for it!
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Takicodos


Dourin-X (Blade Knight, Vanilla Townie) has been hurt during the night!

Day 2 Starts!

1. Ranmaru ()
2. July()
3. -Joey- ()
4. Dark Horse ()
7. Oki ()
8. X1-12 ()
9. Nabe ()

Not Voting: Ranmaru, July, Joey, Dark Horse, Oki, X1-12, Nabe

With 7 playing it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline is January 21st at 11:59 PM CST (-6 GMT)
 

#HBC | Nabe

Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
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Can't breathe, but the view is equal to the taste
The motive for this kill seems plain to me -- the mafia, knowing they can kill Ran toNight, set their sights on who they thought to be the next most cleared townie.

I'd like everyone to continue play as they wish, but I'd also like to hear from everyone the name of one player who they think had a hand in deciding to kill Dourin, based on the above. Ran, X1 and myself will respond after the others have gone; this is about you guys giving us unfiltered opinions.
 

ranmaru

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@DH
First off, I want to see your thoughts on everyone. With a brief explanation as to why. I think this will help us get a read on you since you recently replaced in.


@All:
What do you all think of the TGD lynch?

Hmmm, I noticed Nabe's post. (in preview mode)

@Nabe:
Honestly I think we need to look back on the TGD lynch as well, not just the motives of the Dourin kill. Both seems better.

My thoughts after everyone else posts.
 

July

Smash Apprentice
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@Nabe: Right now the one player I think may have had a hand in deciding to kill Dourin was Oki. Oki's opinion on Dourin was interesting, I remember she agreed he was pretty much cleared town, she buddied him at times, and then towards the end she very quickly started to doubt his status as town.

I would really like to look back at the thread though and look at Dourin's interactions (with Oki and with everyone) as well as at the TGD lynch as Ran said.

@Ran: I think the TGD lynch was what was best for the town at the time given what we had to work with. Our top suspect (you) had just claimed and became cleared town, and the next most suspicious player was TGD. While many of us started to have doubts towards the deadline about his scumminess vs. just townie recklessness, it was late in Day 1 and TGD even if he wasn't scum, it seemed like his play style could hurt town anyways, so it was the best bet we had.

I will look over thread and make more posts asap, but that probably won't be until later tonight as I am about to hit the road back to college right now.
 

Dooms

KY/KP Joey
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TGD being town = wut?

We have to be faster this time around guys, that way if we decide that someone isn't scum, we can change our mind and still have time.

I think anyone could have killed Dourin. We were all told that he was pretty much confirmed townie soooo... yeeeah. I can't think of one specific person over the others that would have killed him.
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

Mach-Hommy x Murakami
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I've hit a wall.

July, Joey, and oki havent done anything straight scummy (scummy without the use of meta) in my eyes. All three of them have been trying to play town, and doing a good job of it.

Ran, while he was extraordinarily scummy D1, it appears that he is the uncc'd cop, and therefore clear.

Nabe & X1 I have null reads on, as most of your guys's posts have been made to teach newbies stuff, and you can't really get a read from that.

Also, X1, Ran, and Nabe get town points from the nk. If there was maf among X1's list on who to doc, scum might not have killed, to semi-clear that person. Of course, this is probably too hard thinking for a newbie game....
 

Dooms

KY/KP Joey
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What if mafia always has to kill? >_>

Wait

Can you post that list again or give a post number?
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

Mach-Hommy x Murakami
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Joey, if maf had to kill, it would be stated somewhere in the setup. A normal maf does not have to kill.
 

ranmaru

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"Also, X1, Ran, and Nabe get town points from the nk. If there was maf among X1's list on who to doc, scum might not have killed, to semi-clear that person. Of course, this is probably too hard thinking for a newbie game...."

@Question to DarkHorse:
If scum was on X1's list, wouldn't it be simple for them to avoid killing the other two, and kill the towniest player not on the list? I don't think you should automatically call that town points.

Now, Joey is right. We shouldn't wait until near deadline to scramble.

@Question to X1:
Why did you wait until then to possibly make a BS case to lynch TGD? Your top two scumpicks were both town. (Me, and TGD)

I know that his death is our responsibility.

I half didn't really want to lynch TGD because like July said, I was having doubts. He was being silly and reckless, but I also thought he was being a bit sketchy. He even said I was %100 cop, and I was wondering if he was trying to take me down (as his revenge), or just agreeing with everyone that I was cop. He was agreeing, he only voted me because everyone else was on me. Then he had a sudden change of heart. I also didn't think those were his own stances. He took a very long time to answer my questions, and I thought he was asking his !scumbuddy what to say.

So, I was wrong. ToDAY, I won't go for an easy lynch. I will be killed tonite most likely, so I will fight hard toDAY.

Post will be continued in another post (So that people can see my posts better) Trying not to have such a dense wall of text.
 

ranmaru

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My top Scumpicks:

Oki - Has been pushing my lynch since d1, has been following the ic's and wouldn't do something they said not to do. Even though she says she doesn't like it when someone takes control. Yeah, like that aimaf meta? : ] Also like July said, Oki said Dourin was town, then she changed her stance suddenly when he said he didn't believe my claim. Why shouldn't someone doubt it? I think this was another reason to hop on to voting Dourin, as when she hopped off the !Ran! Wagon.
Joey - I have read in a non existent game that Joey lays low as scum, and as town trys to contribute and actually protect who he thinks is town. (X1 said it) I didn't see much of that. Also, he hasn't really given us his scum thoughts on others. Just me and TGD. (Who are both town) More on this in next post.
X1 - I don't like that he focused so much on me and tgd, and now we still don't have scum. Was he really sure of my scumminess that if he messed up he'd have to make another case that may just be ****ty? How can one catch scum that way? He thought TGD was giving town tells, but why would he still go for it? He then stated he thought Nabe, DH, and July might be scum. Well I don't see him pushing for it now. What will he do toDAY?


Wait a minute. Why does X1 pick these three as possible scum picks, since I and TGD are now cleared?

X1 said:
"Probably between July, DH and Nabe imo."
We still MUST be careful with them though: July Nabe Dh -

July - because she seems town, but if we use aimaf meta, we'd all fall for her being town. We must watch her closely.
Nabe - Because he has been quite reserved. He hadn't really showed us who he thinks is scum. Only thing I could see is his willingness to vote Dourin.
DarkHorse - Because he just replaced in. That's all, hopefully we'll see more from him. He did give a list of his thoughts, and I replied to that.

But, do you think scum tried to frame Nabe (emphasis on tried) from that statement? Even though the chances of that would be very low? I think it wouldn't be a bad idea, since me x1 and nabe were probably going to be protected, so !DourinKill! would kill two birds with one stone (or just one and miss the other)


btw, I was re-reading and this would be the reason why I claimed earlier yesterDAY

Nabe said:
In reality, L-1 is only less safe than L-2 if we don't trust our fellow townies to make bad judgment calls, or if we think scum might hammer* in a dangerous situation later in the game. On Day 1, and with X1 having made it abundantly clear how we would treat a hammer at this point, there's very little to worry about."
Yet people still questioned my early claim, for example, Oki, X1.
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

Mach-Hommy x Murakami
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@Question to DarkHorse:
If scum was on X1's list, wouldn't it be simple for them to avoid killing the other two, and kill the towniest player not on the list? I don't think you should automatically call that town points.

Do you know what i'm ssaying?

No nk=doc protected
doc protect=target is clear

there were 3 targets. Each of those would be somewhat clear if there was no nk. If one of those three was maf, don't you think it would be better to have a member semi-clear?
 

Dooms

KY/KP Joey
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X1 has never played a game with me where I was scum. Lol.

I'm thinking July. I feel like she's playing it really safe. Really really safe. She's not standing out much at all because of her playing safe.

Vote: July

I need to re-re-read day 1 and think through some things.
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
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@Answer to Nabe:
Well, I'd think it would be someone who would either want to frame you, or make it look like you were being framed. (Yes, a little wifom) [from the willingness to vote Dourin, but that's just a little post that probably wouldn't raise suspicion, but we have to consider all sides]

So it could either be between you or X1, since being on the list, killing someone who would make you a suspect could be a smart idea. (People would think you might be being framed, yet you'd probably be framing yourself on purpose)

Or, I'd think it would fall between Oki/Joey. Oki mostly, because she buddied Dourin real hard, and then turned on him. Yet, scum could have noticed this, and just killed Dourin to make us think it was Oki. Moreso with Oki then nabe.

Joey, just because I think he is scum. I don't really see much of his thoughts. He only pushed on me, really. mostly me and TGD.


"I don't really have a proper read on Dourin @_@ I think he's town though because he's trying to encourage everyone to share their opinion before day two. Like how I think you're town. "

This is the only other thing I think he gave his thoughts on. He also gave us his thoughts of #50. Then of lynching 'possible' scum over inactives (me). Although I wouldn't give him total credit of the Dourin kill, although !DourinKill! wasn't a hard decision, though.
 

ranmaru

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@DarkHorse:

Well I'm sure Scum just evaded that whole list. Even if they were on the list or not.

Dourin seemed to be an easy kill. We don't really know who exactly the doc protected though.
 

ranmaru

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Also:

DH@ Please explain how scum would semi-clear a member exactly, that'll help me understand your scenario.
 

Dooms

KY/KP Joey
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by not killing, the town will assume that the doctor protected one of the people on x1's list and that group of people would be cleared until later on in the game.

Just sayin'.
 

#HBC | Dark Horse

Mach-Hommy x Murakami
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If there's no nk, People would assume that the doc had protected a person. Due to the fact that maf usually can't shoot each other, the saved is usually considered town for the time being.

X1 gave us a list of people to doc, which I'm pretty sure the doc followed. Therefore, in the case of no nk, it can be assumed that the doc saved either X1/Nabe/Ran.

However, lets say the mafia didnt send in the kill. People would assume one of X1/Nave/ran to be town. If, say, doc was on X1 (who is scum), and the mad nk'd, the doctor woul assume his target (X1) to have been selected for the kill.
 

ranmaru

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@DarkHorse

True. But, Maf did kill. They killed Dourin.

So are you saying that Mafia shouldn't have nk'd if they had a scumbuddy on the doc list? (To semi clear everyone?)

Do you think it was a bad idea for them?

Also, I am thinking Scum might have killed Dourin because he had little connections, and not much people would be suspected (except Oki, and Nabe just a little)
 

X1-12

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Nabe & X1 I have null reads on, as most of your guys's posts have been made to teach newbies stuff, and you can't really get a read from that.
I don't really think that's true, apart form the start of the game, the majority of my posts were actually about game content, hence why I pushed for the Ranmaru Lynch - I was mainly responsible for that, and then later for the TGD Lynch

@Ran: You really need to learn how to play this game. I think all of your questions I've already answered, or explained and asking them again just slows down town. Firstly I waited until then to push a BS case (in fact it wasn't really a 'case' at all) because as I already outlined, you were considerably more anti-town than him, and it was much more likely you were being anti-town with intent than he was. I said yesterDay several times that a Lynch needed to occur, and after your claim it wasn't going to be you. I wasn't going to get enough support to get anyone else lynched plus we could cut out some dead weight in the process. You then go on to attack me because I said scum was likely "between July, DH and Nabe" and haven't pushed them yet, despite the fact that in the first post of the Day I'm asked to not give my opinions until others have posted.

tomorrow I'm gonna rip your posts apart and teach you how to actually play the game too. For now just try to think before you post. lol
 

Dooms

KY/KP Joey
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Can I request that you do that for me too? I honestly have little idea how to play mafia too.

Is me "not sharing my thoughts" the only reason why you think I'm scummy, Ran?
 

X1-12

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Not really during the game because I cannot tell what is you playing badly accidentally, and what is you playing badly intentionally. Ran is cleared as town so I actually can for him
 

ranmaru

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Well I just wanted to remind everyone that since you were so sure of my anti-towness, that you cost us a townie, and wasted time.

Well I meant why didn't you at least push ONE of those three yesterDAY. I mean, why did you even only do top 2? How does that help town when you notice both are town?

I know about the support, but why didn't you even try? Although, I'll give you that. I didn't try to get onto another, so we can all share the blame for that one. But, that's why I'm not going to take an easy lynch today. If you think there is someone else that MIGHT be scum, please go for it dude. I'll support you IF I agree with it.

I want to see your next two top scum picks, and I want to see you push for them. : ]


I asked this because I noticed TGD's flip. Doesn't it seem like "Learning from our mistakes?" That's what I was trying to do, not to slow town down.



And go ahead, rip my posts apart. I will love to see what I really did wrong, and I'll learn from it and try to apply it to my technique, and hope that I'll play more effectively.
 

July

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We have to be faster this time around guys, that way if we decide that someone isn't scum, we can change our mind and still have time.
Agreed, Day 2 we have to be quicker and more organized, Day 1 we scrambled after Ran's claim to figure out what to do and that was not fun.

Joey, why do you think I have been really really safe?

I admit that I do take a while to vote, which could be playing it safe, but that is because I like to have as much information as possible. However, I am willing to act and I do have my own opinions: I hammered TGD because, despite doubts, I agreed he was the most suspicious player at the time and because his play style was reckless and could be bad for the town Day 2. And I am suspicious of Oki because she was very quick to change her opinion of Dourin towards the end of Day 1, she focused on Ran very hard (as Ran pointed out even after his claim), and I feel she has for the most part avoided too much pressure as she is presumed town. Also, Oki is the only one I believe who hasn't posted since Day 2 began, which could just be because she doesn't know the thread is already open again but is uncharacteristic of her from her high activity in Day 1. So,

FoS: Oki

And only a FoS until she comes back in and addresses Nabe's and Ran's questions on the TGD lynch & Dourin nk.
 

ranmaru

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Joey I believe you are trying to pick scapegoats. You even vote July for being too safe.

So that would mean you would consider Nabe scummy too, since he himself is playing reserved. (Dourin did too)
 

Oki

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Alright, reading and re-reading and answering some questions.
Concerning the TGD lynch: I did not get on the TGD wagon. I supported it, but I was not feeling well, and did not get here in time for the hammer. I think it is interesting that July got the hammer, by the way. In any case, I need to look closer at the reasons for people voting TGD, because most of us supported it. So I don't think that a vote for TGD is necessarily a scum move. I gotta check up on it.

@Ran concerning why I disbelieved your early claim and why I pushed your lynch: To quote X1, you gotta learn how to play this game. You seemed scummy to me, and at the very least you are not really making any posts that are helping town. It is a good reason to question you and suggest a lynch. I stopped suggesting it when we determined you were cop, meaning you were a cleared townie and someone who could maybe help town.

Also, please stooooop using aimaf meta. Please. Please please please. We've been told not to like 238739874 times. And you keep saying it. And you think it is ok to push it in my face because I did it once before the IC's said not to. :( It is not very nice. It is making me make the saddest face. Like all the sad faces.

@Ran and July: You mentioned that I said I was suspicious of Dourin in the end. This was because, even after almost every person had posted saying “I'm not the cop” and Ran went uncounterclaimed, I was then sure that he must be cop. It only makes sense. Any real cop with some sense would cc. However, Dourin kept fighting it. He didn't want to claim not-cop, and he said he doubted Ran's claim (around #336). And I didn't like that, I thought it was suspicious. In my mind, it was at least not pro-town. I explained this in post #440.

I want to hear more from Dark Horse, and want to point out that he put TGD at L-1. Jus sayin.

I need to reread stuff about scum being on X1's protect list, I read it once and it went over my head, will make another post shortly. However, if there is no nk I highly doubt that it is that maf decided not to kill, it is probably almost always a doc protect. As long as we still have a doc, that is.

Finally,
@Nabe: Ran is cleared town, and I need to hear more from Joey and DH more before I make a judgement on them, or read Joey's more closely, at least. I don't think you'd kill Dourin, because you said you'd lynch him for his silly statement, and that would point right back to you. I think that you are smarter than that. This leaves me with two people: July, who is very informative, but she doesn't seem to be opinionated. But also she was the hammer. And X1, who I need to read closer, because he could be hiding behind his IC.
 
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