KSSU: Helper to Hero Mafia/Newbie 11 - Game Over!

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@oki

Anything wrong with putting a scummy guy at L-1 , a position which he would get to anyways?

 

[Oki]

Ffff, hey now SWF, cooperate and post.

And DH, not necessarily. It might not mean anything. I just think it is interesting to see who is ballsy enough to put the person at the hammer, and at L-1. I am reading and re-reading. I just want to point out things that I find interesting. Sometimes stuff goes over my head, and it helps to collaborate with the rest of town. Have more people reading what I am reading and talking about it.

 

[ranmaru]

Ah, that's good Oki.

Well Joey seemed ballsy enough to vote me to L-1. You can read the details, it's there. : ]

 

[Gova]

1. Ranmaru ()
2. July (1) Joey
3. -Joey- ()
4. Dark Horse ()
7. Oki ()
8. X1-12 ()
9. Nabe ()

Not Voting: Ranmaru, July, Dark Horse, Oki, X1-12, Nabe

With 7 playing it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline is January 21st at 11:59 PM CST (-6 GMT)

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I think it is interesting that July got the hammer, by the way.

Can you elaborate on this? Why is it interesting?

I want to hear more from Dark Horse, and want to point out that he put TGD at L-1. Jus sayin.

Could you elaborate here as well? What specifically would you like to hear from Dark Horse? Does DH putting TGD at L-1 mean anything, or are you reminding the town of information?

 

[Dooms]

Kk this may be the last time I'm on for today and it seems like a good time so

Vote: The Good Doctor

Lol I know, and it's nothing personal, its just the best bet for us to lynch you to find scum. Also, I'm not planning on hammering until the ICs think it is close enough to the deadline, so if there is anything else you want us to keep in mind/look into on Day 2 you still have time to let us know.

@Nabe: For right now, it seems that TSR is now consciously making a choice not to participate rather than being unable to participate due to outside circumstances. This could indicate that she really has no interest in playing the game anymore (if she logged on she must have gotten the prods so I don't think she could have just forgot), or that she has transitioned from being inactive to just plain lurking.

The Good Doctor, I definitely like that you are explaining more, and when it comes to Ran I agree that he has been focused on "helping the town" more than just downright scum-hunting.



Dourin, I noticed that you didn't mention the other IC, Nabe, in your list of players. How do you feel about Nabe so far in game?

Top Skye Ranger...please talk, we need to learn more about you and how you feel about what has been going on so far.

On the lynch all lurkers policy, I disagree with lynching someone for inactivity on Day 1, especially considering that the game started near the holidays. However, by Day 2, if someone continues to lurk then that is a major problem, by that point they should have enough information to be involved in the discussions of who is scum and who should be lynched. I think that on Day 1 we need to try and draw lurkers out and get them involved, then Day 2 is make or break for them.

If I had to shoot one person right now it would be The Good Doctor, while he has been making posts with more content but his answers still haven't made me feel easy.

@Joey
1) Regardless of post #50, how do you feel about Dourin?
2) Who do you find to be most scummy right now and why?

1st quote is the hammer. You say it's the last time you'll be on, so you hammer right then and there. I feel like this was very safe, but a scummy type of safe, because it feels like you were put in charge of the hammer, but you used it before we got all of the info we could from him.

2nd quote is you basicly saying you're following the experienced players. Very safe play.

3rd quote is you answering a question. You're being safe here too, giving multiple options to TRS's inactivity, and in some ways trying to defend her from not getting lynched (imo).

4th quote is just answering questions and giving opinions. Weird play, one side of you is agreeing with TGD, other side is saying that you want to shoot him from what I see. Still also very safe with asking TRS to be active like everyone else and asking a few questions.

These are just a few quotes, but these four added alone make you the most suspicious to me. :/

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@Nabe: Ran is cleared town, and I need to hear more from Joey and DH more before I make a judgement on them, or read Joey's more closely, at least. I don't think you'd kill Dourin, because you said you'd lynch him for his silly statement, and that would point right back to you. I think that you are smarter than that. This leaves me with two people: July, who is very informative, but she doesn't seem to be opinionated. But also she was the hammer. And X1, who I need to read closer, because he could be hiding behind his IC.

A couple things to say here, as well.

• You say that because I intended to lynch Dourin, killing him would've pointed back to me, and therefore I wouldn't have made that kill choice as scum. Is that really true? Why does a Dourin kill point to me, in your eyes?
  
• You say that X1 might be hiding behind the fact that he's an IC. Did you not include me here because of the Dourin exclusion, or does something else separate me from X1?

 

[July]

@Joey: I did consult the ICs as to when it was appropriate to hammer, because honestly I didn't know, but after I asked I waited until the last time I could log on that day to hammer, and at that time there was pretty much no conversation going on (other than Dourin and X1 asking for the hammer to take place). And since Oki and I were the only ones not voting, one of us had to take charge of hammer anyways. The other quotes just deal with my play style, which is mostly that I want as much information as possible, so I consider as much information as possible in something like TRS's inactivity.

Also, why even until the end of the day did you keep your vote on Ran, even though he was confirmed town?


@Oki: You mention who is ballsy enough to put someone at L-1 or to hammer; would you have hammered TGD if I didn't?

 

[Dooms]

Because I wouldn't have been there when someone counterclaimed. So I just kept my vote there.

 

[X1-12]

Why Ran sucks at this game

OK here is a post just for Ran really, feel free to read it but its just explaining to him how to play the game, as opposed to actually stuff like who is scum or answering questions etc. I'll get to that in a sec.

Spoiler

I stopped when I got to the point where I hadn't actually answered questions from you yet. But from these three posts you should be able to see enough to understand why you play badly. Note that everything I highlighted in bold is purely useless stuff that you don't need to include

@DH
First off, I want to see your thoughts on everyone. With a brief explanation as to why. I think this will help us get a read on you since you recently replaced in.

@All:
What do you all think of the TGD lynch?

Hmmm, I noticed Nabe's post. (in preview mode)

@Nabe:
Honestly I think we need to look back on the TGD lynch as well, not just the motives of the Dourin kill. Both seems better.

My thoughts after everyone else posts.

Sometimes you should really write your own thoughts on what is happening. Doing this genuinely makes you look scummy because you are not actually posting your own opinions. Had you said "The TGD lynch looked as though there was scum on the wagon, what does everyone else think?" it would have actually generated more discussion, as people will talk not just about the lynch, but about what you think of the lynch. Waiting for others to respond first is also [usually] scummy because it gives the impression that you don't have a stance and want to just agree with what others think. At this point in the game you should also be more specific when asking your questions, you should have some fairly good ideas of who is scum, so you should focus on those players. Asking questions "@all" at this point [usually] just generates lots of information that you don't need.

My top Scumpicks:

Oki - Has been pushing my lynch since d1, has been following the ic's and wouldn't do something they said not to do. Even though she says she doesn't like it when someone takes control. Yeah, like that aimaf meta? : ] Also like July said, Oki said Dourin was town, then she changed her stance suddenly when he said he didn't believe my claim. Why shouldn't someone doubt it? I think this was another reason to hop on to voting Dourin, as when she hopped off the !Ran! Wagon.
Joey - I have read in a non existent game that Joey lays low as scum, and as town trys to contribute and actually protect who he thinks is town. (X1 said it) I didn't see much of that. Also, he hasn't really given us his scum thoughts on others. Just me and TGD. (Who are both town) More on this in next post.
X1 - I don't like that he focused so much on me and tgd, and now we still don't have scum. Was he really sure of my scumminess that if he messed up he'd have to make another case that may just be ****ty? How can one catch scum that way? He thought TGD was giving town tells, but why would he still go for it? He then stated he thought Nabe, DH, and July might be scum. Well I don't see him pushing for it now. What will he do toDAY?


Wait a minute. Why does X1 pick these three as possible scum picks, since I and TGD are now cleared?



We still MUST be careful with them though: July Nabe Dh -

July - because she seems town, but if we use aimaf meta, we'd all fall for her being town. We must watch her closely.
Nabe - Because he has been quite reserved. He hadn't really showed us who he thinks is scum. Only thing I could see is his willingness to vote Dourin.
DarkHorse - Because he just replaced in. That's all, hopefully we'll see more from him. He did give a list of his thoughts, and I replied to that.

But, do you think scum tried to frame Nabe (emphasis on tried) from that statement? Even though the chances of that would be very low? I think it wouldn't be a bad idea, since me x1 and nabe were probably going to be protected, so !DourinKill! would kill two birds with one stone (or just one and miss the other)


btw, I was re-reading and this would be the reason why I claimed earlier yesterDAY



Yet people still questioned my early claim, for example, Oki, X1.

First thing that is completely wrong with this post is the first line. Oki is scum "because she has been pushing my lynch since D1" You forget the fact that town don't know who is town. Its not scummy to push a lynch on another player, even if that player is town. Thinking "OMG they attacked me and must be scum!!!" is a terrible mindset and attacking someone who attacked you is called OMGUS and is often considered a scumtell. Regardless it does not help town at all. Back to the point thinking Oki is scummy because she attacked you is very self centered and dumb. Get out of that mindset. Later using AIMMafia meta is dumb or if its a joke then its a waste of space. 2-3 lines here just repeating what July said, you may as well just say you agree with July about her #454

Your points on Joey are also weak and dumb. You talk about something someone said in another game and misinterpret it (I've never actually spoken about how Joey plays as scum. Also even though you didn't name it its getting really close to unacceptable that you are talking about another game. Again, OMGUS, you don't like how I focused on you. Now saying things like "Was he sure of my scumminess" is stoooopid. Either say "I don't think he was sure", or ask me a question. Saying things like "might" and "could be" make it sound like you are purposely not taking a stance because you are scared to be wrong (You shouldn't be) It also actually adds nothing. Saying "Player X could be scum" is obvious, unless you actually say if you think that player is or not you gain absolutely nothing. Go back to once again talking about AIMMafia meta.

Points on Nabe are useless, have you asked him who you think is scum? If no then why not? Everything you say on DH then is useless too. When you say "do you think scum..." you should either address the question to someone, or don't use rhetorical questions like that (You could instead say that you think scum did try to frame nabe) and if you don't think that, don't say it/. Once again you go back to attacking players (its implied you attack them by putting their names in red) because they questioned you. That is bad.

@Answer to Nabe:
Well, I'd think it would be someone who would either want to frame you, or make it look like you were being framed. (Yes, a little wifom) [from the willingness to vote Dourin, but that's just a little post that probably wouldn't raise suspicion, but we have to consider all sides]

So it could either be between you or X1, since being on the list, killing someone who would make you a suspect could be a smart idea. (People would think you might be being framed, yet you'd probably be framing yourself on purpose)

Or, I'd think it would fall between Oki/Joey. Oki mostly, because she buddied Dourin real hard, and then turned on him. Yet, scum could have noticed this, and just killed Dourin to make us think it was Oki. Moreso with Oki then nabe.

Joey, just because I think he is scum. I don't really see much of his thoughts. He only pushed on me, really. mostly me and TGD.

"I don't really have a proper read on Dourin @_@ I think he's town though because he's trying to encourage everyone to share their opinion before day two. Like how I think you're town. "

This is the only other thing I think he gave his thoughts on. He also gave us his thoughts of #50. Then of lynching 'possible' scum over inactives (me). Although I wouldn't give him total credit of the Dourin kill, although !DourinKill! wasn't a hard decision, though.

All of this post is useless, just as I said, saying stuff like "could be" or "possibly is" or "might be" is just useless. First paragraph if you know it is WIFOM then why even talk about it? There is so much stuff that is not useful in here. You say "I think its this" followed by "Or it might be this" like 5 times.

 

[X1-12]

Well I just wanted to remind everyone that since you were so sure of my anti-towness, that you cost us a townie, and wasted time.

Well I meant why didn't you at least push ONE of those three yesterDAY. I mean, why did you even only do top 2? How does that help town when you notice both are town?

I know about the support, but why didn't you even try? Although, I'll give you that. I didn't try to get onto another, so we can all share the blame for that one. But, that's why I'm not going to take an easy lynch today. If you think there is someone else that MIGHT be scum, please go for it dude. I'll support you IF I agree with it.

I want to see your next two top scum picks, and I want to see you push for them. : ]


I asked this because I noticed TGD's flip. Doesn't it seem like "Learning from our mistakes?" That's what I was trying to do, not to slow town down.



And go ahead, rip my posts apart. I will love to see what I really did wrong, and I'll learn from it and try to apply it to my technique, and hope that I'll play more effectively.

First line is dumb. Its your fault for being scummy, otherwise not everyone would have been OK with lynching you.

I didn't push any of those because I didn't have actual scum reads on at that time, they were merely the ones I suspect. You are now sayign despite the fact you don't like how I pushed against you yesterDay, you want to see me push on my scumpicks toDay?

My scumpicks will come soon however there is a question I want to hear the answer to before I reveal them, its better if I reveal them all at once.

 

[Oki]

@July: I guess. I probably would have had to. D: I am not comfortable with a lynchless day but I always cringe when I put the hammer on. I just really do not like doing it. xD I just hate the responsibility of being the one to finish the lynch.

A couple things to say here, as well.

• You say that because I intended to lynch Dourin, killing him would've pointed back to me, and therefore I wouldn't have made that kill choice as scum. Is that really true? Why does a Dourin kill point to me, in your eyes?
  
• You say that X1 might be hiding behind the fact that he's an IC. Did you not include me here because of the Dourin exclusion, or does something else separate me from X1?

I picked up on it at the end of D1, and some other people have mentioned it I believe, but you said when Dourin was being all stupid about Ran's cop claim that you would lynch him just for that. Being against him at the end of the day is a surefire way to make everyone suspect you of his nk, as we have seen with people being like "Kim you changed your mind about Dourin in the end of the day. That makes you my fos."

Though hey, maybe you would do that, say you'd lynch someone and then nk them as scum. Disregard if it is too much wifom lol, and I will go back to the drawing board.

I didn't include you with X1 because of the Dourin distinction, which is apparently awful and null. Doesn't mean you give me exclusive town vibes. I was just trying to whittle down the list of people we have left.

 

[Oki]

Ah, that's good Oki.

Well Joey seemed ballsy enough to vote me to L-1. You can read the details, it's there. : ]

Oh hey now. I do not like that. He voted you right after you claimed cop, too. I suppose it is close enough to your claim for him to have been ninja'd, maybe. MAYBE. But he also didn't change his vote after that.

Hey Joey, why did you do that?

As for the rest of his behavior, the only real strong opinion he had that stood out for me is that he was like, super super against X1's reasoning to vote for TRS and didn't seem to understand that it would be good to push an inactive. Like, really, it would be in town's interest.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I picked up on it at the end of D1, and some other people have mentioned it I believe, but you said when Dourin was being all stupid about Ran's cop claim that you would lynch him just for that. Being against him at the end of the day is a surefire way to make everyone suspect you of his nk, as we have seen with people being like "Kim you changed your mind about Dourin in the end of the day. That makes you my fos."

But doesn't that seem off to you? If I thought I could get him lynched, would I have attempted to kill him, rather than leaving him to lynch toDay? And if you still believe that his death implicates me, then I'm not happy that you're clearing me for it. The simplest solution is often the best.

Also, I think you've missed my 485.

 

[July]

@Ran and Oki: I was looking back at the process by which Joey put Ran at L-1. This is his last post before Ran claimed:

V/LA on the 8th and the morning of the 9th. Brawl tournament <3.

My stance and my vote hasn't changed one bit except they're both acting more scummy in my opinion. TGD more so than Ran. TGD is just following around and doing a bad job, at that. He's skimming too and not really paying attention in my opinion.

And here is his post right after Ran claimed:

unvote:TGD vote:Ran

The EXACT reason we were voting him was because of his actions. The fact that he's inexperienced shouldn't make us take his mind off of him for a slight second. I'm willing to let him live to day two just because you're a better suspect to lynch. I REALLY doubt that TGD is making all of these posts on accident or without reading. Sure, he came into the game hard-headed, but after the pressure was applied, he should have atleast fixed a LITTLE bit of that... instead it got way worse. It's not even a new thing, it's either a lurk and skim thing, or it's a "LOL I'M NOT GOING TO DO WHAT YOU SAY" thing. <_<

I'm not going to be here tomorrow. My vote stays until day two.

Whether or not Joey was ninja'd, the second post doesn't very well explain his reasons for voting Ran. In fact, I think (although I'm not sure if the "him" in the first sentence is addressing TGD or Ran) most of the post is stating why TGD is such a good candidate, with the exception of the "I'm willing to let him live to day two because you're a better suspect to lynch" line. Yet there is no explanation for why Ran is now the better suspect to lynch, instead of TGD who he explained the reasons for in the first post.

@Joey, what happened to make you shift away from TGD to Ran right before the deadline?

 

[Dooms]

I thought Ran after that one post he made.

"This is true, we are all trying to learn the game and in Day 2 he has a chance to rebound. However, you do realize that if you support giving TGD a second chance, that leaves you as the main candidate for being lynched, right?"

I'm saying he shouldn't be cut off for inexperience/lack of knowledge.

Instead his actions should be why he would be let off.

But yes, I do understand that if he were given a chance, I'd be the one to go. Oh well, it would be for the good of town.

Lol @ good of town

But seriously, from the point of view that I read it in at the time, one scummy person was trying to defend another, and with pointless information to top it off. The actions TGD took were not just noob mistakes, they were scummy actions such as choosing to follow people around and such. I feel like that it was really anti-town to defend him in this way; it felt like he was trying to say "Let TGD live, he's making noobie mistakes!!!" and putting himself up for a lynch (which is a scum tell for me). I didn't like that at all.

 

[Oki]

@@@@@@Joey: Why did you vote Ran after he claimed cop, and why didn't you want to change you vote? You kept our potential cop at L-1 in an unpredictable newbie game.

 

[X1-12]

0011/0111
0100
0010=1001

Will explain later, this is just for reference. I cbf to go into details now

 

[Dooms]

I'm pretty sure I already answered that Oki. July answered the first question. I answered the second.

It was a ninja claim. I was typing when it was posted. I wouldn't have been here to see the counter claim(after that post I was gone for the rest of Day one), so I left it there so someone could hammer if he was lying.

 

[ranmaru]

@X1:

Well, I wanted to post first but Nabe insisted we wait for the others, and so I said I'd wait. Then very shortly I posted anyways.

I was fine with saying that because I had no fear of somehow APPEARING like I was parroting.

Does it seem like I parroted at all this game?

Ah, thanks for that. I didn't know. I just wanted everyone's opinion and stuff, to spread it out. I'll keep that in mind.

Yeah I took a shot with outside info.

Also, you never really said anything to Oki before when she was mentioning as to why I seemed scummy. She used Aimaf meta more than once, so I'm sure she was doing that on purpose. Although, I'm still not sure why Aimaf may not partially apply, though. Please explain that to me.

Ok, good point. I just use might be and stuff like that because I'm town, and I don't want to come off as scum because I know scum KNOW more than us.

I'm pretty sure I asked everyone who they thought was scum, and got nothing.

Nah. I wasn't attacking. Sometimes I did put attacks in red, but I just use those three colours to make messages stand out more.

True, true. I guess I sometimes fall into wifom without really noticing it. I'll try not to fall into that

I just didn't like the direction you lead us into. That is why I want to see more of your scumpicks.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Ran, don't like your reasons for your scumpicks. They all seem too be around pushing lynches on you and TGD, who were acting pretty scummy.

 

[ranmaru]

So:

@Question to Nabe:

What are your scum picks? Who do you think killed Dourin?

Also, why do you think Oki is trying to clear you? I think she may be trying to buddy you, as she did with others.

Also, I do think someone may have tried to frame you, Nabe.

 

[ranmaru]

DH, I'll give you a short re-vision. Trying to revamp my gameplay. : ]

Top 3 Scum:

Oki: She buddied Dourin. She Buddied Joey. She is buddying Nabe. She wants everyone to notice that DarkHorse put TGD at L-1. She also wants people to notice Joey putting Ranmaru at L-1. She is trying to pick scapegoats, while clearing Nabe as town. She says X1 is hiding behind being an IC, but doesn't say Nabe is. Both are.

Joey: Suddenly picked July as scum because she is "Being TOO safe" when Nabe and Dourin were also being safe. Nabe is still being safe, yet he says nothing of this.

X1: He wouldn't mind TGD going, even though we all weren't so sure of his innocence. To me, he was taking an "easy lynch". Hopefully ToDAY we'll see a difference. X1 is less scummy then Oki and Joey.

There.

 

[X1-12]

@Nabe: Are your top two scumpicks Oki and Joey? Whether they are or not which would you rather go toDay?


I have a big post ready but want to hear that first

 

[X1-12]

also @Ran: AIMMafia and forum are just too different games, you can't compare them in the same way you can't compare Table football (fussball) and IRL football (Soccer)

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@Nabe: Are your top two scumpicks Oki and Joey? Whether they are or not which would you rather go toDay?

YesterDay, I thought Dourin. With him, I was considering either yourself or Oki. ToDay, I would rather see DH or Joey go, as they're players I have more trouble reading, and during their lynch I would read on Oki and July for D3. Would see Joey go over Oki toDay, but would be comfortable with Oki and all other lynches for the sake of getting some reads. i.e. I'm a little off-track.

Also, I do think someone may have tried to frame you, Nabe.

As I've been saying to Oki, why? For one, if you think that the Dourin kill implicates me, you should follow through with that. Occam's razor. But, I don't really think that the Dourin kill says anything about me.

 

[Oki]

@Ran: What do you mean by buddy? Like, create alliances with? I was good to Dourin for most of the day because he was doing pro-town things. When he stopped doing pro-town things, i.e. doubting your cop claim even when you were clear and refusing to say whether or not he was cop, I stopped dismissing him as town because they were not town things to do.

As for Joey, I've gotten a mostly town vibe from him, but would like to give a second look to him since he put our cleared cop at L-1 and then refused to unvote with the knowledge that you were indeed not scum at all. o.o

I used aimafia meta once. Before X1 told us not to. And then I stopped. I've tried to make judgements on Nabe based on meta because I have also played FORUM GAMES WITH HIM, JUST NOT HERE. Forum games. They were more informal than they are here, but they were not aim.

You have also used aimafia meta more than once, and you have shoved it in my face every time like "HA HA I AM USING AIMAFIA META HOW ABOUT THAT AHAHA." And then you call me out for using it once, when you've also done so. And it is getting really. Really annoying. Please stop. Like please it is making me want to punch.

@Nabe: I really do not even know how I can articulate what I mean about the Dourin kill. Toward the end of the Day yesterday, Dourin said "hey, I do not believe Ran's cop claim."

Then you said "I would lynch you for such a silly statement" or something.

I feel like, if you could make a case against Dourin today, as scum you would have. I feel like also, as scum, you wouldn't during the Day say "Dourin, I would like to see you lynched" and then kill. It seems suspicious. So I feel like you wouldn't have done it. ;; I don't know that makes no sense still. I am so bad at talking.

I was not saying the Dourin kill implicates you. I was saying the entire opposite and I was saying it made you look more town than before.

Which is why

@Ran: I said specifically that X1 could be hiding behind his IC role when I was trying to sort out all the players during one of my first posts toDay. I was making a distinction between X1 and Nabe because of my (apparently terrible and mixed up lol) thoughts concerning the kill last Night.

 

[July]

Okay, from reviewing the thread, my top scum pick still remains Oki, followed by X1.

With Oki, looking back to Day 1 I saw 1) a lot of buddying and 2) an insubstantial amount of scum-hunting

1) Buddying- With buddying there are some very clear examples of this, especially in relation to Dourin. In posts numbers #166 and #197, she refers to Dourin as “the most awesomest” and his avatar as “the most awesome.” Considering that most players considered Dourin pretty town, buddying him could make her seem more town too. Furthermore, she has been very supportive of the ICs. In post #125 she puts out the idea that the ICs might be cleared town for simply being ICs, but even after Ran and Dourin addressed that roles are randomized and ICs could be scum, she was still trying to clear Nabe as town and not really questioning X1. In fact, in post #147 she states that Nabe "is hanging back because 1. he is town and 2. he is an IC.” Post #174 is the first time that she voices her opinion on X1, which is simply that he is “pretty town.” In post #266 Oki once again calls on Nabe being an IC and uses meta from other games to call him “pretty town”, which Nabe himself calls a bad hunch in the very next post. Finally, in post #492 she says that the Dourin distinction makes him less scummy, which Nabe also challenges in #494.

From this, it seems that Oki went out of her way to buddy Dourin and Nabe and at least ignore the other IC, X1. I don’t suspect Nabe, and in fact he didn’t play into the buddying.

2) In terms of scum-hunting: Oki spent much of Day 1 battling with Ran, to the point where Nabe addresses that he would like them both to stop the argument entirely in #169. Most of the questions Oki asked were directed towards the ICs about actual game play, and there was very little questioning for the purpose of gaining information on other players. Furthermore, she says in post #480 that she did not get on the TGD wagon, but I couldn’t find any posts where she pushed for another player other than Ran, TGD, or her suspicions of Dourin at the end of Day 1 (Oki, if I am wrong about this please point out who else you suspected, in case I missed it in the thread). She was one of the first to jump off the Ran wagon, and apparently she wasn’t on the TGD wagon, leaving just her suspicions of Dourin at the end of Day 1, which isn’t very helpful since he died in the nk. Day 2 she addressed some suspicions of X1 and I, but I also haven't really seen her act on that.

For X1: I saw that he was TGD’s #2 suspect, after Dourin, and in DH’s initial thoughts replacing into the game he considered X1 to be null. That, in turn with his leadership roles in the attempted lynch of Ran and lynch of TGD, raised my suspicions.

I have also looked at Joey’s play style and decisions throughout the game, and he seems town to me. He suspects me for being too safe, but his play style has been reckless in the past, so I can understand his issues with my play style. He stuck to Ran and TGD because he thought they were scum, he has been suspicious of the ICs, questioned the post #50 comment, and seems to be genuinely scum-hunting rather than scapegoating right now.

Sorry for so many post numbers, I didn't want to use a ton of quotes but I wanted to give specific examples

 

[Oki]

Lol feel free to read this, it is longish and full of quotes and for Ran mostly.

Spoiler

This is where I have used aimaf meta:

This is more assertive and more vocal and more unreserved than I have seen you in any aimafia game we have ever played. It makes me uneasy.

And then X1 told us to stop:

Also if I didn't say already. Don't try to use meta from AIMmafia and apply it to forum

So I did. I have used meta for Nabe, but tried to specify that it was from playing forum style games with him also:

Also, I have played with Nabe, not just on quick-moving things like Aimafia and EpicMafia. I've played some forum games with him (not here of course), and I mean, they were very informal forum games and the players there probably could use some newbie training like this, but I've learned a bit about how he plays from that.

P.S. You have been doing it too:

Btw, I'm always sincere on Aimaf, even Nabe himself said it.

I meant Joey always seems to be vote happy in Aimaf.

Even though she says she doesn't like it when someone takes control. Yeah, like that aimaf meta? : ]

July - because she seems town, but if we use aimaf meta, we'd all fall for her being town. We must watch her closely.

Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease. Stop. You used aimaf meta like 4 pages ago and you have done it so much, and you keep yelling at me for doing it like 30 pages ago. It is really frustrating.

 

[Oki]

@July: I did get off the Ran wagon first, because I realized that all the scummy things he was doing were just because he is not playing like he probably should. If I didn't know he was cop, I would still think he was scummy. I was out and felt like crap on the night we lynched TGD. I don't know if I would have put the hammer on him or not. Probably, we needed a lynch D1, it's better than nothing. As scum I wouldn't have abstained from voting, that wouldn't be in my best interest. Nor would it have been in my best interest to get off of Ran, what was cooking up to be the easiest lynch in the history of the world.

As for calling Dourin awesome, it was because he made a silly post with his avatar in it. I didn't realize that trying to respond positively to a person who made a joke would make everyone turn on me later. I will make sure to have absolutely no emotions or sense of humor next time I play.

My suspicions of Dourin had to do with his doubting Ran's cop claim and his not wanting to claim as cop or not. He was not cooperative and he was still questioning a cleared town, and that didn't settle well with me. Seemed scummy. Obviously wasn't, but seemed that way to me.

Supposing there is nothing scummy about putting the hammer on TGD, as it needed to be done, there is nothing to be suspicious about you for, I guess.
As for X1, I am trying to figure out how to articulate evidence against him, like, say why he's scum. I guess I got nothing but vibes about him right now.
I still don't like Joey's staying on Ran, even though he gave us an answer, but I really don't know where to go with him from there. ._.

Sorry most of my posts today have not been targeting others and have been focused on defending myself, but like, everyone has been asking me a lot of questions.

 

[X1-12]

Joey: I get seriously mixed tells from Joey which is odd in itself, in #461 I get a town vibe because I honestly don't think he would think to say something like that as scum. If he does turn out to be scum then Nabe is definitely his scum partner, and told him to do that post. (Yeah I could have told him to do that I know, but no-one else) In #467 Joey calls July out for playing safe, but doesn't mention Nabe who has been playing very conservative this game - Note I don't care that he didn't mention Dourin because that is understandable, everyone knew he was town. In this post he also criticises July for being safe with the hammer, despite the fact that Oki was around but not hammering either. Later in #475 he drops a small town tell by asking for me to critique his play but that is fairly easy to think of and to fake as scum. Zoom forward to #486 and we see Joey talk again about July and hammering, this is after Oki has talked about not hammering herself but Joey has nothing to say on that, he appears somewhat tunnel-visioned (he is tunnelling) In this post he also talks about following IC's which is also something that not only July has done (Oki too), nor is it necessarily something scummy if you believe the ICs to be town.

Oki: My biggest issue with Oki is her #480. She starts with a seriously wishy-washy comment about the TGD lynch and even expends 4 lines to say this. This is followed by and AtE to Ran (Appeal to Emotion) which is kinda worthless, arguably its harmless but there's still no need for it. Its unusual that she does it at this time when I don't remember her acting like this before. This post just seems very padded out and useless, which gives the impression of scum trying hard to look as though they are contributing. Finishes of this post with a nice bout of WIFOM regarding Nabe's alignment. Actually to top it off she throws in "X1 is hiding behind his IC" Which I've yet to see any evidence for, regardless of that its the third time its been said without any backing. Other than the fluff in this post she also attacked DH in a scummy and underhand way by instead of questioning him, or just stating something, she says "DH put TGD at L-1 jus sayin" which looks like a way to spread dirt onto DH subtly

DH: Says in #460 that most of the posts by Nabe and I have been mainly IC stuff (this is not true). I would also suggest looking at Nabe (or me I guess) if DH is scum because of the way he gives us town points for not very good reasons. Also in #480 by Oki DH is asked a question, and asked to post more. He answers the question which shows he is there but fails to post anything beyond that


Vote: Oki

That is the way I think we should go toDay. While Joey has done things which are more scummy in some ways, he has also exhibited some town tells which are extremely hard to fake, and no offence meant Joey, but probably above his level. Nabe is worrying me but until I re-read (I won't be able to do for a while - its exam season over here) So I am comfortable with letting him live toDay.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

X1, I'm curious. What did you expect my answer to 504 to be?

 

[X1-12]

I suspected your scumpicks would line up with mine (they did very much so yesterDay) however I also wanted too see you actually post your thoughts on them before I explained my case. I'm fully aware of the possibility* of you being scum and I do not want to allow you to hide in my shadow for the game. I also wanted your thoughts on the players BEFORE I mentioned that they could be your scumbuddies.

Lynch Oki with me now?


*Note: Possibility =/= Probablity. Technically any player in this game is possible scum, but that is not to say they are probably scum

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

they did very much so yesterDay

Could you elaborate on this?

 

[X1-12]

at one point I suggested a plan and you called me a mind-reader or something. It was the day before my V/LA so the 6th Jan most likely if you wanna look for it

You also thought Ran/TGD should go that Day.

I seem to remember until the very end you agreed with me about Dourin being town

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

'kay. Going out for a half-hour maybe, will be responding when I get back.

 

[ranmaru]

Oki Stuff. Also, I agree X1. Oki should go toDAY.

Vote: Oki


"I'm going to put out the (possibly devastatingly wrong) idea that X1 and Nabe are cleared town because they are IC's, meant to help us out. However, I don't know, it could be that one is there to help town and one is there to help scum."

Wifom. You knew it was wrong but you posted it anyways. You want them to seem half town/half scum.

"TGD: You have been really sketchy with your playing, especially in the beginning. You made Ran L-1 (please, pleeease if I got this wrong, let me know, I am still trying to sort out what the ongoing votecount was) without even thinking about it. That isn't putting the hammer on him, but it's pretty close. It put someone in danger of death that day when we still had a week left to decide on his fate. That makes you suspicious. It could also be that it was just dumb and reckless, or that you weren't sure of what the votecount was and rushed in, but I still don't like it."

You were accusing TGD of being sketchy yet you were trying to play off his play by saying he was just being silly. Also you try to play it off even further with wifom as well, as if defending him. You knew he was town.

I think you were trying to make him seem town, and hoping he seemed town while I would go for the first DAY. Since X1 said I was going to go over TGD, you followed suit and ignored me and said that if I flipped town, that TGD might be suspected. You knew I was town too.

italics is wifom.

"Dourin: in a game where there are a TON of players (I've played admittedly silly, informal games, but with more than 15 people), and during those we lynched an inactive first day, knowing that there was often just two wolves and that the amount of vts would not matter as much until later. However, with just 5 vts, 7 town roles all together, I think taking away a possible vt with an inactive lynch is not worth it. Doesn't benefit town at all."

How were you so sure an inactive could have been vt? An inactive can go both ways. It is very bad to let an inactive coast to lylo as scum. If you really thought I was scummy, it would have been better to lynch the inactive (or replace, which happened) and just lynch me D2 if I still was suspicious. The replacement was then seeked out when I claimed, not before. It was seeked so that person could claim not-cop.


"Joey: Since Ran insists on your opinion on why #50 isn't a town tell, go. Tell us why it isn't.

I guess what I said could be considered defending Nabe. I was just responding to your post in which you said that Nabe had not posted content and /hadn't even voted/ which was a lie."

She tells Joey to tell why #50 isn't a town tell, because she doesn't want to hear it. Like "Yeah whatever HE wants you to say it not me"

She also admits to defending nabe. If she plays EM she should know that there isn't time to be silly mid-end game. (Meaning you shouldn't be buddying everyone you see, you know what bussing is, so you should know what buddying is)

"Supposing there is nothing scummy about putting the hammer on TGD, as it needed to be done, there is nothing to be suspicious about you for, I guess."

You guess? So you still suspect her for the hammer, but want to agree with everyone else that it wasn't scummy. (Remember, you were there to hammer too, so just because you didn't hammer, doesn't mean the intention wasn't there). Saying you guess is weak, you are weakening your stance. Admit your faults.

And yes, I believe the intention to hammer was there.


"My suspicions of Dourin had to do with his doubting Ran's cop claim and his not wanting to claim as cop or not. He was not cooperative and he was still questioning a cleared town, and that didn't settle well with me. Seemed scummy. Obviously wasn't, but seemed that way to me."

That shouldn't be the basis of a suspicion. You can't suspect someone for suspecting someone else. Or rather, it would be dumb to. I wouldn't expect everyone to believe me after my apparent scumminess. It was logical, and seeing as he turned out town from his death, he wasn't trying anything sketchy. It was pure doubt.


@Question to Oki:
Oki, who do you believe killed Dourin?


@Nabe:
I believe that even though you only said one statement, that Scum had no other choices that would net a better reward. Hoping that people would think that you might have killed Dourin, it would have been an easy choice because the doc would be protecting either me,x1, or you randomly.

It wouldn't be a bad choice because any kill would probably give just as much info, but Dourin's would have given a little more due to what you said. You are being reserved, but why would you post your intent on voting him for saying a silly thing? The bold is what seems scum would want us to think. Yes, wifom, whatevs. Useless, but that seems to me the only possible thing I can get from the Dourin kill.

So in a sense, the Dourin kill was wifom due to what you said.

If you feel otherwise, then why do you think Dourin was killed? Who do you think killed him?

Also, why did you say you would vote him for being silly? That statement might have sparked a wagon, but scum beat you to it.



Disclaimer: Don't think the colours I use mean anything. Sometimes when I have an attack or accusation, it might be in red because I would want that person to see it. Sometimes I just use different colours pertaining to different people.

I just like using Yellowgreen, DeepSkyBlue, and red the most.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

at one point I suggested a plan and you called me a mind-reader or something. It was the day before my V/LA so the 6th Jan most likely if you wanna look for it

You also thought Ran/TGD should go that Day.

I seem to remember until the very end you agreed with me about Dourin being town

'kay.
Mindread post was 288, in response to your plan of lynching Ran/TGD, and also telling the Doc to flip a coin on me/you for their action target. At the time, Ran hadn't claimed, they were both anti-town and this was all very legit.

At the same time, I had a huge gut on Dourin. You thought 50 was a town clear on him; I disagreed and asked people about him all Day. I suppose this is vanity, because I never said I thought Dourin was scum. But he was my D2 choice and I'd have pursued him toDay.

After Ran's claim, it became very obvious that TGD was town as well, and that we would be lynching for the sake of lynching. Acceptable losses.

When would you say that you began to consider Joey and Oki? ToDay?

 

[July]

'kay.
Mindread post was 288, in response to your plan of lynching Ran/TGD, and also telling the Doc to flip a coin on me/you for their action target. At the time, Ran hadn't claimed, they were both anti-town and this was all very legit.

At the same time, I had a huge gut on Dourin. You thought 50 was a town clear on him; I disagreed and asked people about him all Day. I suppose this is vanity, because I never said I thought Dourin was scum. But he was my D2 choice and I'd have pursued him toDay.

After Ran's claim, it became very obvious that TGD was town as well, and that we would be lynching for the sake of lynching. Acceptable losses.

When would you say that you began to consider Joey and Oki? ToDay?

When you say that Dourin was your D2 choice and you'd have pursued him toDay, is that what you mean when in #506 you say are a little off-track?

 

[ranmaru]

At the same time, I had a huge gut on Dourin. You thought 50 was a town clear on him; I disagreed and asked people about him all Day. I suppose this is vanity, because I never said I thought Dourin was scum. But he was my D2 choice and I'd have pursued him toDay.

I also thought the 50 was null, but Oki thought it was town. (She said that she applauded Joey for saying it was a town tell, so she must have agreed with him)

So because of that, I think you would agree that she was wrong to agree with joey about that post.

She even asked me why I thought it was null, as if it wasn't. It was null.