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Kowns Thread.

Esca

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
2,734
Location
Beaumont, Texas
Stop lying, he said he mains Pit and seconds Bowser. I pretty much hate projectile spammers, so... yea, and I aint picking that Tiara-wearing character to replace Pit, for I am standing true to Pit, with no top tiers. That's the problem with many ppl, they switch from lower tier to higher tier, and some that drop high tiers still use another high tier, where those chances are rare to see.
Wow dude. After this whole year and a half about listening to your ******* post and pretending to like you, I'd like to say on behalf of everyone that you're considered a joke. Your opinion is invalid as my 2 year old sisters. You're an online Pit main. No matter what character you play your still considered an online main. Why do you care if someone switches characters? Like, wtf seriously. Your priorities must be completely shuffled around for you to get antsy about someone seconding/maining a character on a video game. You're one of the dumbest people I have ever met, and I actually feel that the Pit boards would benefit more from you actually leaving the community. You're no contribution and everyone could've saved 1 minute of their life by not reading your ******* rant about you not liking people that main high tiers.

TL;DR, get a life.

Along with this, and most importantly read this.

Your matchup opinions have NO validity. You play online, where Fox goes even with Snake. So no matter what you say about any matchup, it's probably horribly wrong. I'd really appreciate it if you just kept your mouth closed about alot of stuff, and kept your childish antics. Please stop inputing your information. It's seriously not important at all and it isn't even right. Get off please. Go back to Bowser. Or allisbrawl.
 

Phaigne

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
443
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, United States
Wow dude. After this whole year and a half about listening to your ******* post and pretending to like you, I'd like to say on behalf of everyone that you're considered a joke. Your opinion is invalid as my 2 year old sisters. You're an online Pit main. No matter what character you play your still considered an online main. Why do you care if someone switches characters? Like, wtf seriously. Your priorities must be completely shuffled around for you to get antsy about someone seconding/maining a character on a video game. You're one of the dumbest people I have ever met, and I actually feel that the Pit boards would benefit more from you actually leaving the community. You're no contribution and everyone could've saved 1 minute of their life by not reading your ******* rant about you not liking people that main high tiers.

TL;DR, get a life.

Along with this, and most importantly read this.

Your matchup opinions have NO validity. You play online, where Fox goes even with Snake. So no matter what you say about any matchup, it's probably horribly wrong. I'd really appreciate it if you just kept your mouth closed about alot of stuff, and kept your childish antics. Please stop inputing your information. It's seriously not important at all and it isn't even right. Get off please. Go back to Bowser. Or allisbrawl.
Ouch, I'm feeling the heat from that burn.

To be fair, I don't listen to any of you goons.
 

zeldspazz

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,432
Wow.

Makes me love our stupid arguements on teh Zelda Boards. Thats probly something that should have gone to the PMs @_@
 

Cassius.

you're deadMEAT.
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
2,672
Location
Bronx, NY
NNID
CVSSIUS
3DS FC
3239-3108-0529
God **** Esca, that was tough...lol

Uh, also to clear up the whole Vex thing...he actually mains Pit but uses Bowser for matchups in which Bowser is even (Snake, G&W, Falco?, Marth) and he'll use Bowser against King Dedede because he gets off (lololol) on that matchup.

TECHNICALLY he still uses Bowser, so I wouldn't say he seconds Bowser since those characters appear quite often. I'd say he 1.5's Bowser, lolol. Maybe what Vex told me a while ago has changed, and maybe what Esca has been told is true. I might be wrong, but I'm just retelling what I heard from him.
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
8,722
Location
Skyworld
NNID
GoldAngelPit
3DS FC
0903-2895-3694
Wow dude. After this whole year and a half about listening to your ******* post and pretending to like you, I'd like to say on behalf of everyone that you're considered a joke. Your opinion is invalid as my 2 year old sisters. You're an online Pit main. No matter what character you play your still considered an online main. Why do you care if someone switches characters? Like, wtf seriously. Your priorities must be completely shuffled around for you to get antsy about someone seconding/maining a character on a video game. You're one of the dumbest people I have ever met, and I actually feel that the Pit boards would benefit more from you actually leaving the community. You're no contribution and everyone could've saved 1 minute of their life by not reading your ******* rant about you not liking people that main high tiers.

TL;DR, get a life.

Along with this, and most importantly read this.

Your matchup opinions have NO validity. You play online, where Fox goes even with Snake. So no matter what you say about any matchup, it's probably horribly wrong. I'd really appreciate it if you just kept your mouth closed about alot of stuff, and kept your childish antics. Please stop inputing your information. It's seriously not important at all and it isn't even right. Get off please. Go back to Bowser. Or allisbrawl.
Or u can shut up. Stupid idiots who take anything non-offline for granted are selfish. Idk if u have been around for a long time, u DON'T know everything! You have proven to me that the community is filled with much more d-bags than I thought, which many think and act like they are superior to others, which is why most of em DON'T help, period, and in fact, I don't think u have done no matchup contribution, and even if u did, it would be much less than what I have put.
The problem with many of u stupid offliners is that u throw out ALL thoughts from Onliners, no matter how much potential they have. I would rather get info from some average, open-minded player because of many rotten, selfish, dark-hearted, spoiled, super-picky, cocky, personalities of many of u offline jerks, always thinking that they are too superior, that they try to isolate themselves from onliners, like a form of discrimination, almost even racism!

I have spent much of my time away from other things I wanted to do, shortened my test-studying days and homework when I was still in school, answered many questions that many ppl asked, volunteered to do many things, had been willing to collaborate in certain projects and stuff, asked a few ppl to help get some matchup stuff done from the other character's point-of-view, and much more for over a year, and I get a bit of appreciation by only a few! I could have stopped caring to help anyone if I wanted to, but NO! Unlike many of u, I have been helping for a long period of time, because I have a heart and STILL care! Sure, I'm limited to online, but so what! I still have been an inspiration to some, even offered to work with some players to help em improve, and how many ppl have done that!? I don't even know anyone else that has done that, besides me, or I can't remember, but who cares, I've done the majority of that portion!

And how do u know I am NOT watching any offline vids and observe some possible stuff to look out for, or asking an open-minded offliner for their possible opinion? I ain't talking bout biased ones either! I spoken to those who have experience, and ain't completely selfish or biased.

Next, trying to order me to go back to Bowser and go back to AIB!? fyi, stupid, I signed up here first, and where u signed up before me, I still have hundreds of more posts than u, most of em being me answering questions ppl have asked bout Pit, whether they be generally about Pit, matchup-related questions, and other stuff to the best of my ability! ANY INPUT IS BETTER THAN NOTHING, and I have been giving much input for such a long period of time, as I have said above!
Idc if many of u stupid offliners don't take my info, the main point is that I am sucking up much of ur selfishness and still willing to help most who ask for it, and I had to deal with this for how long again? OVER A YEAR! It's hard tolerating such stuff, and yet I still put effort in helping out, and that's because I CARE!

And you call that a build-up!? All of what u said, I have occasions where I could say much more even if u made a mistake! In fact, me reading that annoyance of urs already made me wrote more than what u wrote (Typed, who cares bout corrections), and this is a 2-hours' worth of fury just from me!
Now, I would say much more harsh things, but I am mild when it comes to some vulgar words, and u better be lucky I am.

I'm stopping here since that's all I can think of, and I got other stuff to deal with, and next time, u better watch it.
 

Saki-

Reset Project
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
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Glencoe, Al
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iTasya
Oh god flame war lol

Guys don't blow up on each other

Esca has a point @ online pit's not having much to say when it comes to offline discussion, it's a totally different game it seems.

And I'm well aware you can't go to tournaments, which is why I'll stop here.
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
8,722
Location
Skyworld
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3DS FC
0903-2895-3694
Typical heartless offliner, and I already won this, regardless of his position, since he is backing down.
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
8,722
Location
Skyworld
NNID
GoldAngelPit
3DS FC
0903-2895-3694
Speak to Koolaid, only one I see atm placing up recently, him being first in the new England power ranks, with Pit ONLY!
 

Saki-

Reset Project
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Glencoe, Al
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iTasya
Oh yea I remember seeing that on AIB, xD thats some good stuff!
and just remembered after looking at the Last smash 4 results thread that Esca beat Kismet, I'm impressed lol.
 

Gadiel_VaStar

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Messages
2,066
Location
Atlanta, GA
NNID
GadielVaStar
Wow, this thread needs to chill out. How many top Pit mains do we have now? 4 atm? I'm sure we'll have 5 top Pit mains by the end of the summer. We have Koolaid, Vex?, Admiral Pit, Esca. All we need is 1 more, which will hopefully be me, but I need serious help. What goes on through the mind of Pit players while they play?
 

Doctor X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
1,397
Location
Cincinnati, OH
I'll come back from my absence briefly to say that I generally agree with Esca on this one. Try as he might, Admiral's always done more harm than good. Citing online play as legitimate matchup experience is beyond scrubby. Whining about tiers is doubly so.

He's the posterchild of why people don't take Pit seriously.

@Admiral: Get over yourself.

@Everyone: Bye again. :p
 

Admiral Pit

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
8,722
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Skyworld
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GoldAngelPit
3DS FC
0903-2895-3694
Another typical heartless offliner with dark-colored demonic blood. I ain't going to deal with their stupidity twice in 1 day.
Alas, I want to see these idiots back up their stupid "Offlinism" with this example:

A random Wifi TL named Eternal had beaten Weroup, WA's number 1, an Olimar who also has TL experience from Chip, about a month ago in the latest Tourneyplay, or at least I think it was, as I have heard it like 10 times over the stream.

You ain't breaking this one down, and if u do, u aint doing it without trying to stick a few fingers in ur mouth trying to reach ur brain in hopes for random answers.
 

Coffee™

I need it....
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
2,205
Location
SFL
<3 Dr. X + Esca.

Anyway. everyone relax before I have to hand out infractions for anything.
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
6,158
Location
Australia
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Dre4789
I don't think most offliners think that onliners can't be good brawlers, I know of a few people who started as onliners and placed well at their first tourney.

What the offliners are saying is that because wifi hampers most advanced tactics, eg. spacing, poershielding, frame-tight techniques, baiting and punishing etc. , they just don't consider it valid competitively speaking. It is a completely different game after all, I can go even and even sometimes beat people who would 2-3 stock me offline.

That's why some offliners don't like it when onliners give MU advice based on their online experience, because it's a completely different game, and MUs are different online. Pit particularly strikes me as one who would have different MUs, because projectiles are twice as good online with powershielding etc., man even razor leaf is good online.

Admiral I'm sure you already knew all this, but i'm just stating it in a calmer and more civil way, I don't want to add fuel to the fire if you know what I mean.
 

Katana_koden

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
609
Location
Some Where In Metro Atlanta
I'm definately a pit mainer. I know about pit more than any other character. I guess its that I joined late and I feel my input is a little overlooked. Anyways we definately need to stop trying to prove who is wrong or right. As for online play, you have to give admiral some recognition despite his temper since you learn offline, but online greatly helps with timing mainly. Top players play online also to get better.
 

Saki-

Reset Project
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iTasya
Some top players do play Wi-Fi but they aren't strictly Wi-Fi.
Oh and at the top 5 Pit comment thing

We have alot of great Pits, well that I know of
In no particular order
Rogue Pit
Nikenick
Kool-Aid
Suyoun
King Of Spam
Pitzer (Maverick Pit)
Esca
Sagemoon
Admiral
I know theres alot more <.<;;

but yea we have plenty more than 5 really good Pits
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
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Messages
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, but online greatly helps with timing mainly. Top players play online also to get better.
To be honest I was kinda confused at this statement, because I thought it was generally agreed that wifi ruined spacing, which is based on timing, and considering that wifi requires different timings for moves/tactics, or skews timings, I thought it'd actually be worse for timing.

And with regards to the top players playing wifi to get better, the impression I get is that they would only play wifi simply when they can't play offline, it's not as if wifi provides certain benefits that offline doesn't, it's just that it's the next best thing they have at that given time.

Not trying to condescend you or anything, just giving my two cents on it.
 

zeldspazz

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,432
Did you guys know there are actually MLG sponsered online tournies? There are people who are considered "online pros"

@_@ Idk just thought that was pretty cool. Continue with your online/offline debate. I personally dont agree with the way it was said, but yes online is different from offline. Now that isnt to say nothing should be taken into account from an online player, but you always have to be prepared to be countered and corrected by an offline player and you just have to accept it. They are two different, but related, metagames. Although I have to admit some ppl blow that a little out of proportion, its true for the most part.

Wifi doesnt screw spacing >_> Only for Marth :p
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
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I'm pretty sure it would screw spacing, due to delayed commands etc.

I think the thing with wifi is though is that it's closer to using items than offline is.

Now before everyone goes nuts at me, I'm not saying it's like using items, I realise it's much more skill-depenndant than that, but if you have players X and Y, X being better, on wifi Y is generally more likely to win more matches than he would offline, which likens online more to using items than oflfine is. I think this is why wifi is considered invalid competitively speaking by most offliners.
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
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In other words, I'm saying wifi is more like using items than offline is, because it is less skill-dependant than offline.

I'm not saying it's drastically less skill-dependant, just less, that's why I think most offliners don't think wifi counts as a competitive arena.

Pretty much everyone says wifi is awful for their char though.
 

zeldspazz

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,432
Yeah Marth online is legit like 5x harder for the Marth player. No joke

@Dre: I think its harder skill-wise to play online unless you use Snake or Ike but whatevs xD
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
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You're entiltied to your opinion of course, but due to delayed command input etc. wifi generally favours aggression, which is usually associated with lower-level play (not always though). Whereas more high-level tactics, such as spacing, baiting and punishing, frame-tight techniques etc. are ruined by lag.

I've generally found that lower-level players do better online than offline, a common case is where people wil lgo even, but offline the better player will 2-3 stock the other oflfine. It's rarely the other way though, wehere they'll go even offline then the better player will two-three stock the lesser one online.

It seems in general wifi favours tactics that are considered 'lower-level' that don't often work offline. Pretty much everything I say isn't just my personal opinion though, it's what I've found to be the general consensus amongst competitve players.

So yeah I disagree that wifi is harder, skill-wise, and I think most would agree with me, but you're entitlted to your opinion of course.
 

zeldspazz

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,432
To me it actually does depend on the character you are using.

Think of it this way. Snake, Ike, Ganon, Zelda, Wolf, GaW, Projectile users. These character have the tools to be far easier to play online than offline. Whether it be the spammable projectile, disjoints (lol Snake), etc. These take less skill online.

Marth, Peach, Diddy, IC, Sheik, Lucas, Ness, etc. These characters get ****ed up by wifi. Just something about their playstyle went wrong with lag. These take more skill online rather than offline.

This is to say be effective and good, not just to use and win.

And to be quite honest Im sure if players are going even online, not much is going to change offline except it its like Ike vs. Marth. Probably a shift to the better player winning more often, but not like a 3 stock
 

Dre89

Smash Hero
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No trust me, I've heard of it many times where people go even online then get 2 or 3 stocked offline. There are people I verse who could do that to me.

Yes certain chars benefit more from online than others, but even if I was a Marth main, I would still have a better chance winning online against a better player than I do offline, Because not only does lag interfere with play at random parts, advanced concepts that are fundamental to all characters, and just being a good brawler in general are skewed online.

Toon Link is a good example of having aspects of his metagame hindered online. Although I'd say he generally benefits from wifi more than certain other chars due to prjectiles being more effective online, he can lose some tactics depending on the connection. For example, after a SH aerial, a Toon will either FF or quickdraw, if he decides to quickdraw, the lag may ruin the timing, then istead of a relatively lag-;ess arrow, you get a laggy grounded arrow, which is a big no-no for Toon.

ICs is even worse, they can lose their chaingrab, and any command delay can ruin their desynchs, and those two things are virtually their entire metagame.
 

zeldspazz

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,432
and just being a good brawler in general are skewed online.
Yeah sorry I didnt process what you said once I read that at the end. Im gonna stop now. I wasnt aware that you cant be a good brawler online.

Trust me, Ally and ADHD and other amazing offline players, are amazing online players as well. They are towards or at the top of the AiB ladder, a competitive online interaction. If youre saying nobody can be a good brawler online then I cant argue with you because that is absolutely false. Its just different than offline.
 

Dre89

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No you've misunderstood lol. I didn't say you can't be a good brawler online, I was saying 'concepts that are fundamental to being a good brawler in general are skewed online'.

Hope that clears it up.
 

zeldspazz

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,432
I think being screwed online is too overexaggerated. *shrugs* Obviously its true, some things like reaction time and timing in general are off causing gameplay to be different, but unless its a significant amount of lag, the core gameplay of a good brawler is still there for the most part.

I think "hinders" is a more suitable word.
 

Saki-

Reset Project
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lol I think the debate is cleared up right now, both sides had great points but we all agree that offline simply shows better skill with pro players than most wifi players.

and yes "hinder" is more suitable to the entire Wi-Fi Situation

Now if only brawl had better servers *dreams*
 

zeldspazz

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,432
Its weird, its something to do with the design of brawl that wifi will never be lagless. There will always be at least I think like 7 frames of lag at the minimum

Its too bad xD
 

Saki-

Reset Project
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Yes :[
If Brawl + does Wi-Fi I might try that soon, it wouldn't make too much difference then and it would be more enjoyable lol.
 

zeldspazz

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,432
You can do Brawl+ Wifi. You just have to make sure that the person you are playing has EXACTLY the same thing as you otherwise it wont work.
 

Saki-

Reset Project
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iTasya
Hmm then I certainly will try that. I played for the first time yesterday at a smashfest, it played so great. xD I demonstrated how Ike's jabs are uber broken in that game.
 

zeldspazz

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,432
I heard Zelda is good in that game which makes me happy ^_^

Too bad shes trash in this one
 
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