KOS-MOS Returning to Battle: DLC Season 2.

[Baalikindred]

Trying to keep my exitement in check over this but damn. I keep thinking it can't be KOS-MOS, but man, I have no clue who it could be.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Theory time: Okay guys, you remember that mach figure with the gun Sakurai was using for a project 3 years ago? Well we obviously now know that was use for a character in Smash Ultimate due to the time frame. Who could that be? I don't know. But since Sakurai was working or thinking about this character in Smash all the way back in 2016, than it would only have to mean that they were intended for the project plan which, means: Whoever that mach toy was being use for, it has be FP5 since originally Ultimate's roster was just going have base and the Season Pass and it ending there. I think this mach toy could have been used for KOS-MOS.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

We still have Tekken to worry about, but I have a gut feeling that won't be the case. Come on, KOS-MOS!

 

[Baalikindred]

Anyone have an exact picture of that figure? I'm curious about how it looks. It's possible if KOS-MOS is the dlc character that her mech, E.S Dinah, might make an appearance in the game, and Sakurai bought the figure as a basis for that. I kinda doubt it, but still.

 

[Smasherfan88]

By the way, I might've just scanned over it, but have we ever discussed spirits KOS-MOS would come with?

That and of course every DLC fighter comes with at least 6 Mii Costumes at max and 4 minimum, and I think we're all thinking the Heihachi and Lloyd ones will return with KOS-MOS' inclusion but what would the other three/four be? Of course Banjo shows they can have no relation with your parent company at all, but I imagine they'd come from Xenosaga or another Namco IP.

I'd imagine Shion and MOMO would be locks for that and I can easily see a Klonoa Mii Costume coming with the Llyod and Heihachi ones returning and Namco costumes in general though that wouldn't exactly be a lock in my eyes. I can also see a chaos Mii Costume as well.

 

[zferolie]

So llyod is gone for now. Really they only big name leaks still not deconfirmed are KOS-MOS and Reimu... what a time to be alive

 

[Smasherfan88]

We still have Tekken to worry about, but I have a gut feeling that won't be the case. Come on, KOS-MOS!

Sakurai still hasn't proven otherwise on his reasoning why no Tekken characters joined the fight in Smash 4: Too complex for Smash. Plus, if you kinda think about it... would there be anything at all a Tekken character could bring new to the table at this point? Specifically the mascots of Heihachi and Jin? Since Ryu/Ken and Terry kinda cover everything their type of character can do. Of course there would be utilizing the Z axis but that's exactly the reason why Sakurai said they're too complex to add in and it'd probably just be their stage if anything like Spiral Mountain.

Plus I mean... Heihachi got de-confirmed by Pac-Man's taunt for crying out loud... if you want to believe Pac-Man's taunt is another thanos snap anyways.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So llyod is gone for now. Really they only big name leaks still not deconfirmed are KOS-MOS and Reimu... what a time to be alive

And Nightmare since he was one of the front runners to be FP5 by Fatmanonice and Sabi.

 

[MattX20]

Anyone have an exact picture of that figure? I'm curious about how it looks. It's possible if KOS-MOS is the dlc character that her mech, E.S Dinah, might make an appearance in the game, and Sakurai bought the figure as a basis for that. I kinda doubt it, but still.

The figure in question was the Vifam Robot Damashii. http://www.collectiondx.com/toy_review/2014/vifam

 

[zferolie]

And Nightmare since he was one of the front runners to be FP5 by Fatmanonice and Sabi.

Nightmare huh? Well a new villain is nice, but i would rather have Ivy as a face for the series... but her outfit would pose an issue i bet

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Nightmare huh? Well a new villain is nice, but i would rather have Ivy as a face for the series... but her outfit would pose an issue i bet

I would prefer Yoshimitsu myself, but Nightmare would be nice.

 

[zferolie]

I would prefer Yoshimitsu myself, but Nightmare would be nice.

Yoshimitsu works too as he is in both Soul Calibur and Tekken. Plus he has a lot of moves that fot right for smash, like a recovery with his helicopter attack

 

[Baalikindred]

Yeah, that figure looks too different from Xenosaga's artsyle for it to be connected to me. Might be for scale reference or something of the sort, but it seems unconnected to me. That said, I would love it if Nightmare was in.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yeah, that figure looks too different from Xenosaga's artsyle for it to be connected to me. Might be for scale reference or something of the sort, but it seems unconnected to me.

it looks more like a Skell from Xenoblade X...

...ELMA?!

 

[Baalikindred]

it looks more like a Skell from Xenoblade X...

...ELMA?!

I actually hate the plot of Xenoblade X and it's characters. I do admit it has the best mech combat of the series, though. I'll take Elma over nothing, though.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So what stage would KOS-MOS most likely come with?

 

[Baalikindred]

So what stage would KOS-MOS most likely come with?

I'd say Abel's Ark. It's a weird trippy spaceship a good amount of episode 3's plot is about and takes place on. I could be miss remebering some things though. Been awhile since i last played episode 3.

 

[BlackInk]

It seems like I was right about Kosmos. I knew that marketing was such an important factor for Nintendo.

 

[Destinylegend]

So what stage would KOS-MOS most likely come with?

I'd say Abel's Ark, or the ship where the first game takes place, when she activates, can't remember name, or maybe have the Elsa used or Durandel, ok, maybe I have a few stages in mind, lol

 

[ES. Dinah]

So what stage would KOS-MOS most likely come with?

Kukai Foundation or Abel's Ark imo. Kukai foundation can move around like Delfino Plaza. It has some nice sights to see and plus it is a city in space!

 

[Prince777]

Deconfirmed via spirit, sorry to burst your bubble.

That said Sabi hasn't given an update yet but did say some Phoenix Wright leak was fake.

I disagree. I feel that if spirits were a genuine de-conformation, it would have been disclosed by Sakurai by now. I doubt we'll see any spirits for the fighter pass, but they could very well be fair game for the post-pass.

By the way, I might've just scanned over it, but have we ever discussed spirits KOS-MOS would come with?

That and of course every DLC fighter comes with at least 6 Mii Costumes at max and 4 minimum, and I think we're all thinking the Heihachi and Lloyd ones will return with KOS-MOS' inclusion but what would the other three/four be? Of course Banjo shows they can have no relation with your parent company at all, but I imagine they'd come from Xenosaga or another Namco IP.

I'd imagine Shion and MOMO would be locks for that and I can easily see a Klonoa Mii Costume coming with the Llyod and Heihachi ones returning and Namco costumes in general though that wouldn't exactly be a lock in my eyes. I can also see a chaos Mii Costume as well.

Some big names that come to mind for potential spirits are,

1. U-do.
2. Jesus Christ (a case of particular interest; and I'd personally like to see if the dev team and Sakurai would actually do this)
3. Apostles (the ones who followed Jesus).
4. Mary Magdalene
5. T-elos (assuming she won't already be connected with KOS-MOS's moveset in some way).
6. Shion Uzuki.
7. Xenogears reps.
8. Elma or other XCBX reps.

 

[ZevBenjamin]

I would love to see a T-elos Echo of KOS-MOS but i doubt it. They will probably just go for a alt color.
Then again i wonder if KOS-MOS will have a gimmick, what would it be?

 

[Smasherfan88]

I would love to see a T-elos Echo of KOS-MOS but i doubt it. They will probably just go for a alt color.
Then again i wonder if KOS-MOS will have a gimmick, what would it be?

I doubt we're ever going to get echoes through DLC due to the fact it's been confirmed over a year that ain't happening. Though I do agree a T-elos inspired color-swap or better yet: an alternate costume would probably be what they go with.

As for a gimmick... what if her gimmick was that there was no gimmick? maybe something to do with the various weapons she materializes out of some pocket space or something? Not exactly sure I suppose.

 

[Lamperouge]

It seems like I was right about Kosmos. I knew that marketing was such an important factor for Nintendo.

Your wacky "business theories" aren't proven correct just because KOS-MOS is looking likely.

 

[Lynn Eslie]

So what stage would KOS-MOS most likely come with?

That would largely depend on what aspect of Xenosaga they want to focus on.

-Woglinde, Elsa, or Durandal: Seem obvious choices, but I'd argue them unlikely, owing to the number of space-faring and/or ship-riding stages we have. You want the stage to feel unique.

-Woglinde Hangar or Omega Hangar: Would get you the nice background shot of the Emulator, but would otherwise be very similar to many other stages in the game. Thematic but dull.

-Michdam Underground Ruins: Another incredibly evocative area, and given its place in Xenosaga's narrative, could be used as a poetic love-letter to the fans. Though they lack the unique feel of Cathedral Ship or Abel's Ark, the Underground Ruins are breathtaking to behold, and would not leave one wanting for spectacle, even for those who know nothing of the source material.

-Cathedral Ship/Abel's Ark: Now these ones offer quite a bit. Brinstar is the only stage that remotely emulates the Gnosis, leaving a great deal of real-estate to deliver on the them of fighting inside an alien and truly titanic life-form in a way unique to Xenosaga. Abel's Ark would be my pick for its greater import and plethora of potential hazard mechanics, as well as an aesthetic no other Smash franchise can offer.

Though there is also Old Miltia, U-DO, Song of Nephilim, Proto Merkabah, the Enchepalon... the list goes on and on.
I mean no exaggeration when I say Xenosaga is rife with memorable, momentous locations. Abel's Ark would seem the most logical option given the circumstances, but they could opt for another of the *many* excellent options for any number of reasons.

 

[BlackInk]

Your wacky "business theories" aren't proven correct just because KOS-MOS is looking likely.

How else are you going to convince people to buy a Rex costume for 25$?

 

[Renmazuo]

By the way, I might've just scanned over it, but have we ever discussed spirits KOS-MOS would come with?

Spoiler

Jesus Christ

 

[Troykv]

Wait wait wait

Lloyd and other Tales Of character were disconfirmed? What happened?

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Wait wait wait

Lloyd and other Tales Of character were disconfirmed? What happened?

The Sabi happened.

 

[BlackInk]

Can someone link me to the Sabi tweet?

 

[zferolie]

Can someone link me to the Sabi tweet?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[ZevBenjamin]

It's do or die time now for KOS-MOS.
i don't see her chances getting any better than this unless someone credible tells us either BAMCO is 5th spot or straight up she's DLC 5.

 

[Deleted member]

How else are you going to convince people to buy a Rex costume for 25$?

You don't. You instead advertise the actual DLC to convince people to buy the pass.

 

[BlackInk]

You don't. You instead advertise the actual DLC to convince people to buy the pass.

Then don’t put the mii costume into the pass at all or it’ll frustrate costumers. The bait must be attached to at least one character the baited wants or the baited will not go for the bait again. In business, you lure to ultimately cause more luring.

 

[Prince777]

It's do or die time now for KOS-MOS.
i don't see her chances getting any better than this unless someone credible tells us either BAMCO is 5th spot or straight up she's DLC 5.

Considering everything that's led up to now (this video that effectively sums up our entire case: https://youtu.be/N4pfofryXRs), the 2018 Xenosaga Episode III trademark during the time when the DLC pass was first announced, and this massive string of big-name deconfirmations, I sincerely doubt that KOS-MOS has any true threat standing in her way.

She's very likely at this point, and Sakurai has a strong affinity for the Xeno series. She would be an excellent pick and everything leading to her inclusion is really adding up.

 

[Deleted member]

Then don’t put the mii costume into the pass at all or it’ll frustrate costumers. The bait must be attached to at least one character the baited wants or the baited will not go for the bait again. In business, you lure to ultimately cause more luring.

You're speaking like Smash Bros hasn't consistently frustrated :Waluigi: customers before. Believe me, it really isn't cool that people who want a Rex costume have to buy a fighters pass they might not want, but this is nowhere near far-fetched.

 

[BlackInk]

You're speaking like Smash Bros hasn't consistently frustrated :Waluigi: customers before. Believe me, it really isn't cool that people who want a Rex costume have to buy a fighters pass they might not want, but this is nowhere near far-fetched.

Those cases are completely different. A completely different president was running Nintendo during smash 4. The new one is aiming at marketing and dlc. Thus, the dlc for smash ultimate has a lot of structure and consideration. The guy thinks it’s important and he’s further convinced by the success of the dlc in past switch titles.

 

[Lynn Eslie]

...So, if I may, I would like to offer a counter to the perception that Nintendo picks DLC characters/costumes based entirely on marketability. I find this notion silly, as evidence to the contrary can be found through the simple act of looking at the roster.


We have Joker, Hero, Banjo&Kazooie, and Terry Bogard so far. Of those, the only character who falls into the mold of a highly marketable, breakout hit character in the height of their popularity is... Joker.

-Hero and Dragon Quest are popular in a way that cannot be overstated... in Japan. But Smash is an international game, and all of us will remember quite clearly the complete and utter lack of enthusiasm the Western Smash Community had in regards to Hero's inclusion. One might argue that Smash is bias to Japan, but if we're talking corporate greed and big money decisions, Japan only makes up ~20% of the Smash Ultimate install base. Surely they could have pushed something with wider appeal.​

​

-Banjo&Kazooie were once a big part of the Nintendo brand, and was a beloved series with a fervently loyal fanbase, for good reason. That said, regardless of one's personal feelings toward B&K, they have not truly been relevant since the early 2000s. They were and are a footnote in the story of gaming history. A prominent footnote, but a footnote nonetheless. ​

​

-Terry Bogard... I could talk about Terry's -and by extension, SNK's- history and relevance to gaming... but all I'd be doing is re-skinning what I just said about B&K, except even less marketable due to lack of vocal support. Terry is near the polar opposite of a shill pick.​

If Nintendo's goal was to make all the money by grabbing eyes and exploiting recent trends, 3 of the 4 characters in the Fighter Pass would not be there. We'd instead have Joker, 2B, Minecraft Steve, Fortnite guy, etc. And sure... many, many people in the greater user-base would likely prefer such a line-up, but it is demonstrably not the brand of content we've been getting. Nintendo clearly feels they have very little reason to exploit existing marketability.

Unpopular, Unknown, and Irrelevant characters become Popular, Known, and Relevant through Smash. It has been happening since Melee. It will continue to happen. It is perhaps the greatest power Smash wields, and one Sakurai [and now Nintendo] are evidently wont to use.

Do they want to make money? Obviously.

Do they sell things strategically, using methods that incentivize larger purchases? Yes.

Do they choose characters and costumes to cash in on current market trends? Signs point to no.

 

[BlackInk]

...So, if I may, I would like to offer a counter to the perception that Nintendo picks DLC characters/costumes based entirely on marketability. I find this notion silly, as evidence to the contrary can be found through the simple act of looking at the roster.


We have Joker, Hero, Banjo&Kazooie, and Terry Bogard so far. Of those, the only character who falls into the mold of a highly marketable, breakout hit character in the height of their popularity is... Joker.

-Hero and Dragon Quest are popular in a way that cannot be overstated... in Japan. But Smash is an international game, and all of us will remember quite clearly the complete and utter lack of enthusiasm the Western Smash Community had in regards to Hero's inclusion. One might argue that Smash is bias to Japan, but if we're talking corporate greed and big money decisions, Japan only makes up ~20% of the Smash Ultimate install base. Surely they could have pushed something with wider appeal.​

​

-Banjo&Kazooie were once a big part of the Nintendo brand, and was a beloved series with a fervently loyal fanbase, for good reason. That said, regardless of one's personal feelings toward B&K, they have not truly been relevant since the early 2000s. They were and are a footnote in the story of gaming history. A prominent footnote, but a footnote nonetheless. ​

​

-Terry Bogard... I could talk about Terry's -and by extension, SNK's- history and relevance to gaming... but all I'd be doing is re-skinning what I just said about B&K, except even less marketable due to lack of vocal support. Terry is near the polar opposite of a shill pick.​

If Nintendo's goal was to make all the money by grabbing eyes and exploiting recent trends, 3 of the 4 characters in the Fighter Pass would not be there. We'd instead have Joker, 2B, Minecraft Steve, Fortnite guy, etc. And sure... many, many people in the greater user-base would likely prefer such a line-up, but it is demonstrably not the brand of content we've been getting. Nintendo clearly feels they have very little reason to exploit existing marketability.

Unpopular, Unknown, and Irrelevant characters become Popular, Known, and Relevant through Smash. It has been happening since Melee. It will continue to happen. It is perhaps the greatest power Smash wields, and one Sakurai [and now Nintendo] are evidently wont to use.

Do they want to make money? Obviously.

Do they sell things strategically, using methods that incentivize larger purchases? Yes.

Do they choose characters and costumes to cash in on current market trends? Signs point to no.

Think of marketability in relation to companies and costumers. Nintendo is trying to gather costumers who haven’t been interested in a smash game before, work closer with Microsoft and SNK, and preserve their image at the same time. My argument is focused on the last subject.

 

[Natlo]

For the Stage: Not sure. It'd definitely have Gnosis involved, though I'm uncertain if they'd be a hazard or just an aesthetic element, but the stage needs to have them. I'd say it depends on the version of KOS-MOS is presented as the primary form. If it's V1 or RE: I'd say Either inside the Woglinde or The Cathedral Ship. for V3 or V4, I'd say the Michtam underground. I don't really have any attachment to Abel's Arc.

For Spirits, I'd say the Playable cast each get one, T-elos obviously gets one with the KOS-MOS recolour to represent her, Albedo gets one, The Testament as a whole I'm thinking, The Gnosis (Likely represented by the big armed yellow one from the first game, with Donkey Kong as the rep. probably a few other types as well, start the match invincible) Then the Elsa and the Durandal ((If DLC spirits can evolve, Durandal docked with the Kukai foundation))

For Mii costumes. I'd say blaster Shion with the MWS as a weapon, the two missing Namco Miis, and... Maybe Xianhua or Raphael as a sword Mii, they're the two Soulcalibur characters with non oversized weapons that I can pull off the top of my head right now.