Koopa Questions: a Bowser Q&A Thread

[NickRiddle]

Uh guys

You jump out of shield to UpB.

Guess what happens in Brawl. You can get frame 1 invincibility.

Bowser's still butt.

edit: and you won't beat Peach's DAir if she's spacing it correctly.

Then how can you get hit out of up-b oos before the hitbox comes out? Happened to me.

 

[Flayl]

It depends on how you're inputting UpB out of shield.

With tap jump, you can just press up and B at the same time.

With tap jump off, you need to hold Up a little before you press jump and B at the same time.

 

[NickRiddle]

I use TJ off sometimes, and it happens.
Maybe I suck.

With TJ on, I ump with L so I can up-b oos.

 

[Flayl]

Gamecube's shoulder buttons are pretty awful for frame-tight moves, that might be your problem.

I'm guessing you still have the springs of the shoulder buttons in there?

 

[Dre89]

Yeah that's how I do it too, with the springs in. I mess it up a lot when I shield a hit.

So what you're saying is that trigger button upb oos isn't as effective as tj because you have to wait a bit longer for it to come out?

 

[Flayl]

I'm saying it's harder to time and press properly.

If you know you want to jump out of shield you can just hold L down until just before the clicking point, that should help.

 

[B!squick]

I swore we had guides explaining this sort of thing. :S

 

[Dre89]

I read the guides ages ago but I don't remember any mention about the difference between tj upb oos and trigger button jump upb oos.

To be honest, the guides aren't too appealing to people like me because they're old and aren't written by top level Bowsers.

Things like Flayl's GR thread are good though.

Guides which list every move aren't very helpful. The best guide I read was an old Puff guide by G-regulate where he basically just listed different mix ups for different situations. That's much more helpful.

It'd be cool if we got a tactical MG thread where we discussed advanced options for certain situations.

 

[Unsound_Shinobi]

Advice for Bowser spacing??? I tend to play aggro, but when someone else is approaching I like to retaliate with forward air if it's an aerial approach, tilted up forward tilt if they are short hopping, and down tilt or PS Klaw if it's a grounded approach.

 

[B!squick]

I read the guides ages ago but I don't remember any mention about the difference between tj upb oos and trigger button jump upb oos.

To be honest, the guides aren't too appealing to people like me because they're old and aren't written by top level Bowsers.

Things like Flayl's GR thread are good though.

Guides which list every move aren't very helpful. The best guide I read was an old Puff guide by G-regulate where he basically just listed different mix ups for different situations. That's much more helpful.

It'd be cool if we got a tactical MG thread where we discussed advanced options for certain situations.

I disagree. With Limit limited to not as active as he once was, Zigsta and his hand problem, MrEh with his complete disregard for this game for the past, what, 2 years I think, Ixis and his more recent complete disregard for this game, and KK... I have no idea what happened to him, I would not be shocked that with my minimal playing I'm one of the better Bowser players that still touches this game from time to time.

 

[Dre89]

Dtilt should probably be saved for koing as ftilt is a better spacing tool and dtilt is better for kos, especially because it's easier to buffer out of a grab release.

I think sh klaw and ftilt (up angled against aerial opponents) are the staples for spacing.

Pivot grabs are also nice for when your opponent approaches you. Pivot grabs are great for punishing landings when they're directly above you. It's particularly good for punishing a landing after a sourspot fair or nair.

Edit- I thought someone else made the guide. I've never seen you play so I can't comment on how good you are.

Sometimes I wonder though with the lack of Bowsers if the best Bowser is just a top level player who mains another character. It's not that unrealistic in brawl.

Top players who don't main X are probably better than all of X's mains with X apart from the top level Xs.

 

[Unsound_Shinobi]

Awesome, thank you, I have one video in the video thread if you wanna see it, but I definitely have a lot of improvement left to be managed.

 

[Dre89]

I probably wouldn't be the best critic because I'm not a high level player and I'm still relatively new to the character myself. There are better suited-critics here.

 

[Flayl]

I read the guides ages ago but I don't remember any mention about the difference between tj upb oos and trigger button jump upb oos.

I don't get what you mean by this

There is no difference, one is just slightly harder to do than the other (and if you use CCPro like me it's super easy)

 

[Dre89]

Well then I don't know why Jay mentioned it was covered in the guide. Doesn't matter.

 

[B!squick]

Well then I don't know why Jay mentioned it was covered in the guide. Doesn't matter.

I was referring to the whole UpB OoS having frame 1 invincibility thing.

And I should mention there's more than one guide. >.> I shouldn't have to, but apparently I do.

 

[Dre89]

I knew it had frame one invincibility.

I was asking if there was vulnerability during the transition from shield to upb.

I also knew there was more than one guide, I never implied I wasn't aware of that.

Besides, not everyone has the time to read 3-4 guides word for word to make sure their query isn't covered. It takes a lot less time to answer the Q than have the person read all the guides .There's no point having a Q and A thread if you can't ask about Bowser's mechanics. You might as well just clump tactical Qs into a MG thread.

 

[B!squick]

I knew it had frame one invincibility.

I was asking if there was vulnerability during the transition from shield to upb.

I also knew there was more than one guide, I never implied I wasn't aware of that.

Besides, not everyone has the time to read 3-4 guides word for word to make sure their query isn't covered. It takes a lot less time to answer the Q than have the person read all the guides .There's no point having a Q and A thread if you can't ask about Bowser's mechanics. You might as well just clump tactical Qs into a MG thread.

See, if there was vulnerability between dropping the shield and UpB's frame 1 invincibility (I think shield drop without jumping adds 2 frames), then it'd be frame 3 invincibility. It's UpB OoS. You're already assuming you're starting with your shield up, so why wouldn't you automatically factor in shield drop lag?

I honestly have no idea if this is actually covered anywhere on the Bowser board though as I haven't checked anything Bowser specific in years. I know it's explained somewhere on this site how UpB OoS works though because Marth and Mario have good ones and maybe some others.

I got feeling you didn't know of my guide when you said

I thought someone else made the guide.

To me that said you only knew of the one that I didn't author.

On a side note, I play with tap jump off and never compensate with a jump button press and even with frame 3 invincibility, I can't think of a time when those extra 2 frames have cost me. I guess if MK is UpBing your shield, but MK is banned, so...

 

[Dre89]

Edit- What is the buffer period for GRs? I always assumed it was after they leave his hands whilst they're sliding away, but before they stop.

Well that's what I wasn't sure about, if it factored in the transition.

The 2 frames might matter against something like a poorly spaced peach fair or anything that has constant hitboxes out.

Acid doesn't tj and he's probably the best Bowser at the moment.

Upb oos isn't that good against people who know the MU anyway. I find upb better for frame trapping and as a modified dash attack. It's also his best option for countering attempted frame traps.

 

[B!squick]

I just power shield everything.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I love Bowser, he's awesome.

 

[Dre89]

Teach me stuff.

I remember Mr. Eh said to practice bombing opponents who try to pivot grab your landing.

I'm sure you'd know a million niche tactics like that.

I also have no manners.

 

[B!squick]

I love Bowser, he's awesome.

Then why did you abandon him for tournys? *sniffle*

 

[Dre89]

I'd like some advice for landing. I have a bad habbit of ff ading into upb which gets punished a lot.

I know you're supposed to mix it up but the actual mix ups would be more helpful.

Thanks in advance.

 

[MrEh]

Teach me stuff.

I remember Mr. Eh said to practice bombing opponents who try to pivot grab your landing.

I'm sure you'd know a million niche tactics like that.

Ask and ye shall receive.


1. If your Fortress is ever shielded, practice the amazing art of moving towards your opponent after a slight delay. If they try to dash grab you, it's possible that they may wiff altogether. (this is especially true for characters with far moving dash grabs)

2. Simply running up to your opponent and Fortressing is a good way to beat almost anything they do. It's risky, but if you have the life lead, why not? It's a good way to condition your opponent to do what you want later in the match. Just the thought that you might randomly Fortress as an approach could possibly allow you to get away with a couple of grabs.

3. You can try to fall on your opponent with a Klaw (or Bomb) if they're trying to pivot grab you upon landing. Bowser suffers from opponents directly below him, so you should try to avoid being in this situation as much as possible. Try to save your double jump unless you really need it. Bowser's airspeed is good, so your doublejump is one of the ways for you to get out of trouble.

4. Bowser's dash attack is huge and lingers forever. If your opponent is being predictable with his aerial approaches, a quick dash attack will beat a lot more then you'd think. You can hit people from absurd ranges if you're good with this. If they airdodge, they'll probably still get hit because dash attack stays out forever. If they swing, you'll probably either win or trade. This is especially good if your opponent is aware of Bowser's Ftilt and is trying to counter-space you out. A random dash attack outta nowhere can throw off people's timing and give you momentum again.

 

[Dre89]

Thanks there's some really good stuff there. I already use fortress as a dash attack and randomly throw out random dash attacks so it's good to know I'm on the right track.

You should post stuff like this more often, or just put it all into a guide. If you can be bothered that is.

 

[MrEh]

I'm really against making a guide because I don't want to tell people what to do or what they should be doing. I'd rather watch people figure stuff out for themselves and develop a playstyle of their own.

That being said, I don't mind throwing out little pieces of general advice here and there. I prefer that greatly compared to telling people to do x in situation y.

 

[Cassius.]

I agree with that statement, because personal critiques are a bit bad. What I do, and what works for me certainly does not work for everyone. I know that for a fact, because literally all I do is use Side B.

Which is why when I see videos, my first point is telling people to use Klaw more. HOW they use it, however, is completely up to them.

Different situations call for different things, and it's really difficult to capture every single one.

 

[Dre89]

Sorry guys got a couple of more queries-

I was wondering if sourspot bomb does the same shield damage as a sweetspotted one.

What is the buffer period for GRs? Is it when they release from his hands and are still sliding away?

Do you have to commit to a ground or air follow up, or can you act you react accordingly?

Was the bowsercide jump escape removed in PAL versions? I mashed jump and I couldn't get it to work. I even went to 1/4 speed in training so I could get more jump inputs per frame and still didn't get the jump.

Thanks in advance.

 

[MrEh]

Do you have to commit to a ground or air follow up, or can you act you react accordingly?

You can react if you train you practice, it's not too hard for most people.

I however, have horrible reflexes, so I have to guess most of the time. (or I just know)

 

[Dre89]

Ok thanks. So is the buffer period what I thought it was?

Also, with the buffered pivot regrab, do you have to return the control stick back to neutral before each input, and can you hold diagonally down backwards whilst you're pummeling to buffer the first input?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Have you guys encountered this before?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay-v_ApIeCs

 

[Dre89]

So do you have to constantly move towards the rock for it to work?

Did he have invincibility frames the entire time?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

So do you have to constantly move towards the rock for it to work?

Did he have invincibility frames the entire time?

Yes, you just hold toward the rock.

My older brother tried to hit me a couple times with B-Air, so, it seems likely.

 

[MrEh]

Oh yes. That's the best thing I've seen all day.

 

[Dre89]

With the buffered pivot regrab out of GR, the inputs seem rather complicated. I was wondering why you wouldn't just be able to tilt the control stick backwards durings pemmels to buffer a pivot and then pivot grab back the original way.

Does anyone actually do the buffered pivot regrab in tourneys?

 

[MrEh]

I know I didn't. I used to just regrab them like normal.

 

[Z'zgashi]

loooool, yes.

First KK finding the Up B through the lip of the ledge, and now this.

PS1 for best Bowser stage.

 

[Flayl]

Have you guys encountered this before?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay-v_ApIeCs

I've never seen that before, that's great haha

If only we could do Sonic's invulnerable spin attack thing on slopes...

 

[Dre89]

loooool, yes.

First KK finding the Up B through the lip of the ledge, and now this.

PS1 for best Bowser stage.

It's got competition from PS2 because on the flying stage if you jump escape a bowsercide you can make it back to the ledge.