Koopa Questions: a Bowser Q&A Thread

[B!squick]

A real pro approaches with FSmash.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Bowser's dash attack isnt too bad, and it eats people's landing attempts like a boss.

imo, Bowser's worst moves are probably like...
Dair, U-Throw, F-Throw, B-Throw, Bowser Bomb, and DSmash.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Why the throws? It does an extra 8-10% and I don't see why people don't use it at the end of their grab release chaingrab attempts instead of jabbing...it doesn't kill, but it's still decent extra damage. And Down-B? While it lags a ton when used in the ground, it seems to be good for punishing people at the edge. (:

 

[Z'zgashi]

Cuz dthrow does more anyway, and since none of the throws kill (realistically), the only use for throws is damage. Besides, most of the time, a grab release would be a better option anyway. You get more damage, kill options, etc out of it. His throws, outside of dthrow, should pretty much never get used because whenever you have the option to use one, 99% of the time there is a better option. It's not that the throws are necessarily BAD, it's just everything else Bowser has is better, and therefore the better options are what you should be using, meaning, although the other throws arent bad, they shouldnt be used hardly ever, meaning they are pretty much useless.

 

[Dre89]

Fthrow and bthrow are good for getting them offstage, and uthrow is good for setting up juggles. But normally a GR is the best option.

 

[Cassius.]

Literally the only reason you would be using another throw is if you happen to grab someone and your back is completely next to the edge of the stage. In that instance, you would obviously use BThrow. There's no real "99% of the time, there's a better option" in that situation because you either put them offstage, or you don't.
The proper thing to do would be to GR them to the other end of the stage, but that sounds like a lot of work, and there's the chance that you could **** up. So, if you're not feeling yourself, you wouldn't do that.

Also, just because something should hardly be used does not necessarily mean that it is useless. That's like saying Bowser's normal grab is next to useless because his Klaw is almost, in fact, usually always better in most given situations, which you should obviously know is not the case. The grab does things that Bowser's Klaw cannot do--set up a near-guaranteed kill, to name one. Klaw can also set up a kill to an extent,

...i lost my train of thought. oh well.

 

[Z'zgashi]

99% of the time you dont grab someone directly on the edge with Bowser lol.

 

[Cassius.]

It's happened before, multiple times to be exact.

My wording was weird. I'm saying that if I grab someone when I'm closer to the opposite edge, I'm probably going to just throw them offstage since I'm horridly out of practice and can't GR from end to end anymore

 

[Z'zgashi]

lol, you act like I dont know that, and you take the simplest little saying/phrase and dissect it. When I say 99% of the time, ITS JUST A SAYING, I DONT LITERALLY MEAN 99% OF THE TIME. Im saying, MOST OF THE TIME, you shouldnt be needing the other throws.

I KNOW bthrow fthrow are for getting them offstage, I use them for that too, Im just saying outside of specific situations, you arent going to be needing them.

 

[Cassius.]

...well excuse me...

 

[Sky Pirate]

You can also do that Bthrow glitch on Rainbow Cruise...

 

[Dre89]

Does utilt have a sourspot? I'm curious because I was wondering if pivoting utilt could KO grounded opponents with the same efficiency as with air-borne opponents.

Edit- It appears that it doesn't. It seems like it doesn't have enough range to land after a jab. I'm sure this was tested before though.

 

[Flayl]

I've been telling people to pivot UTilt since 2008 so yeah

 

[Dre89]

It sounds good in theory but I can't see any practical application. You can't land it out of a jab or GR as far as I know. So far the best application of utilt I've seen is by Acid, who likes to ff airdodge into the ground to utilt air-borne opponents. Although it could be pivoted here instead to hit a grounded opponent I guess.

Pivoting dtilt and jab, and even bomb seem better to me.

Does Bowser have any kind of planking? The closest thing I could find was nairing at the ledge (it doesn't grab) to fortress, but that seems more like a gimping tactic rather than planking.

 

[Flayl]

you're not supposed to link it >_>

just anti-air people and KO with it

the closest thing Bowser has to planking is repeatedly pressing down and fortressing to the ledge, use Klaw/FAir when opponent gets too close. Doesn't really work.

 

[Dre89]

Yeah but there's no need to pivot it in on opponents in the air as far as I understand.

 

[Flayl]

It has tiny range in front of Bowser (which is fixed in Project M)

Something like the hurtbox of the opponent has to be above Bowser's snout, which is dumb. It's been a while.

 

[Cassius.]

It depends on where they air in the air in respect to the actual range of the move. Flayl is right, it doesn't cover his front at all, so you'd be better off pivoting it if they're in front of you. Otherwise it's pretty much common sense

 

[Dre89]

To buffer ftilt out of GR with A sticking, can you just mash forward on the stick, or do you have to time it properly?

Also, I'm pretty sure I've asked this before but I didn't get a clear answer, but does crouching after a jab actually decrease the time before the next input? I can't really notice a difference.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Flayl]

To buffer ftilt out of GR with A sticking, can you just mash forward on the stick, or do you have to time it properly?

If you use the A-stick more than once during the buffer period, your character will jump instead of using an attack. A-sticking isn't worth it.

Also, I'm pretty sure I've asked this before but I didn't get a clear answer, but does crouching after a jab actually decrease the time before the next input?

if you're going to jab1 again yes, anything else no

 

[Dre89]

When exactly is the buffer period? I always assumed it was as soon as they're released from his hands and they're sliding away.

Do you mean A-sticking isn't worth it in general or just for GRs? I'm trying A-sticking out and it seems pretty useful for Bowser. The only character specifc AT he loses is stutter step fsmash, but all characters lose SDI as far as I understand, which is the biggest loss. Still, Lucases b-stick so I guess not having SDI is competitively viable (not that Lucas is competitively viable, but you get what I mean).

 

[Dre89]

Sorry for the double post, but I figured no one would see this if I just edited my last post.

How good/safe is fire breath on a shield? Is rolling the only thing they can do to escape it other than just wait for it to die out?

 

[B!squick]

I don't know what else they could do, unless they were close enough to grab you.

 

[NickRiddle]

They can drop shield, get hit a little, and sdi towards you and hit you. Nobody is that smart, so it isnt bad.

 

[Cassius.]

Nearly all of the characters can just SDI into you and hit you

 

[Deleted member 189823]

This isn't much of a Bowser question as it is of good players that use him...

Why don't you keep Fire Breath for long to rack up tons of damage?
Why don't you guys Bowsercide? Do you consider it "cheap", dishorable and just plain silly way to get rid of your opponent easily?

 

[Dre89]

As they just said, fire breath can be SDId if you hold it too long and you'll get punished.

As for Bowsercide, it's hard to do because if your opponent has the lower percent then they control where it lands. Also certain rulesets don't automatically give Bowser the win for a bowsercide.

Does fire breath count as only one move for refreshing?

 

[Uncle]

Unsure about how fire breath counting as one move for refresh purposes.

As for the question about Bowsercides, they generally aren't done by Bowsers in tourney play because.......

1. If both of you have two or more stocks, you'll only gain a tactical benefit from the Bowsercide if your damage is much higher than theirs, because Bowser's long-lived stocks should not be wasted if they don't have to be. Too bad you need to have LESS damage than your opponent to truly have control.........

2. If both of you are on your last stock, and you have the lead in percentage, then that is the ideal time to Bowsercide. We'll win regardless of the ruleset, because of our ability to jump out. The only problem is that the opponent can (and should) start playing very safe and do whatever it takes to not get SideB'd whenever he is higher in damage in a last stock situation.

In that case, you should take advantage of their fear/hesitation and try to punish them with other moves if they take their fear/hesitation too far, possibly killing them normally in the process. Hey, that kind of thing works for ICs, so why not Bowser?

In conclusion, Bowserciding can be a good option, but the ideal conditions for it don't usually present themselves.

 

[Dre89]

How do you jump out?

I'm assuming you jump just as the victim hits the blast zone because that breaks the move but right before you hit it. If I'm right that seems pretty frame tight.

 

[Uncle]

Yes, it is tight, which is why Bowsers usually mash jump, just to be safe.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Does fire breath count as only one move for refreshing?

Decided to try this.
Ftilt does 11% unstaled and 5% fully staled, giving a pretty good range of damage for testing this.
I had the opponent suicide each time I went to test the damage of Ftilt to ensure accuracy.

After short tippered burst of flame (took enemy to 4% and barely hit) - Ftilt does 6%
After extended burst (to 177%, opponent constantly in stream) - Ftilt does 6%
After DIing out and running back into the flame a few times - Ftilt does 6%

Now to compared, I fully staled Ftilt again and staled Jab1 twice. Ftilt did 7% rather than 6%.

So I guess each time Firebreath is actually used only counts as one move in the queue, despite the number of times you hit with it.

 

[NickRiddle]

That is how it works. Surprised people still dont know how the move queue works.

 

[B!squick]

That is how it works. Surprised people still dont know how the move queue works.

I'm not. It's a background game mechanic that everyone knows is there and gets the gist of but don't really know the specifics of... it. Pretty sure that's the right way to end a sentence...

Anyway, yeah, it's like the Z-axis, although the move queue is a lot easier to figure out.

 

[Dre89]

Most people know about the 9 move que but not things like fire breath.

 

[NickRiddle]

Since it's only one attack, it counts as one attack.

 

[Dre89]

Sorry guys another silly question-

Upb oos is supposed to grant total invincibility from shield drop-the initial frames correct?

So say a Peach is dairing your shield, if you upb oos you'll clank/beat her dair despite the fact her hitboxes are out the entire time?

This is how I understand it but it didn't work once when I tried. I probably accidently jumped instead.

 

[NickRiddle]

Shield drop frames are not invulnerable.

 

[Dre89]

Ohk so it's not totally safe then.

 

[NickRiddle]

Ohk so it's not totally safe then.

If it was, it'd be a little broken, and Bowser wouldn't be butt.

 

[Flayl]

Uh guys

You jump out of shield to UpB.

Guess what happens in Brawl. You can get frame 1 invincibility.

Bowser's still butt.

edit: and you won't beat Peach's DAir if she's spacing it correctly.