Koopa Questions: a Bowser Q&A Thread

[Flayl]

The following Air Releases that have characters fall to the ground before it's over do NOT get screwed up by Battlefield's platforms:
Falco
Sheik

That's it. Since we lift Squirtle higher off the ground than Yoshi it's enough for the Air Release to be messed up.

 

[Dre89]

Are ground release follow ups guaranteed?

Whenever I try to buffer an ftilt or dtilt it gets shielded. I'm pretty sure I'm doing at least the dtilt correctly, because I'm tilting the stick down and mashing A. The only thing I seem to reliably hit with is jab.

I'm not sure if they're not guaranteed or if I'm just messing it up.

Also, the grab release thread says that to buffer a dash grab, you have to tap diagonally forward-down. Why can't you just tap forward?

Soz about all the questions. Thanks in advance.

 

[Flayl]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=297972

Read the first post, it's there for questions like that.

tapping forward will make you roll

 

[Dre89]

Oh sorry I didn't see that chart.

What do you mean by pummel in the chaingrab section? I know what a pummel is but I'm not sure what you mean there, because I assumed we should pummel in every scenario unless we plan to throw them.

Do we have an infinite on the ones we can standing grab, or is not guaranteed?

 

[Zigsta]

We only have a standing infinite on Wario. Bowser can buffer a pivot grab out of GR on anyone he can dtilt, but the timing is tricky.

And don't apologize about asking questions! We're glad to help.

 

[Dre89]

But the chart says (the excel file) to standing grab DK and Bowser, and then says the pivot grab is unnecessary for them. That confused me because that would mean it's an infinite, and I was also more confused because they're the two chars who we have no frame advantage on.

 

[Flayl]

The excel file doesn't say we standing chaingrab DK. Did you somehow look at Charizard and think you were looking at DK? o_O

Bowser has frame advantage on himself. The only character he doesn't have frame advantage on is DK.

You can only pivot grab people if they ground release. If they're releasing to the ground, that means you can standing chaingrab the ones that are marked standing, hence why they are marked "unnecessary" in the pivot grab section.

 

[Dre89]

Yeah I get the unnecessary bit, I was just surprised that Bowser had standing infinites (assuming a ground release).

 

[B!squick]

Having a 10 frame advantage from a grab release is a really random pro, now that I think about it. I wonder at what point the developers thought they should do this and why? Is it some in joke? I just don't get it. :/

 

[Flayl]

It's an oversight from an unfinished animation. If I had to guess initially all grab release animations were going to be like Bowser's but they changed their minds after implementing Bowser's animation (he is first alphabetically after all) and didn't redo it.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Or they just carried over a lot of the frame data from melee and didnt change it without thinking, because according to the people who made Project:M, the coding they used for brawl was pretty much Copy Pasted from Melee over. Bowser had the advantage in Melee, and DK had the less lag in Melee as well.

 

[Flayl]

same thing applies then, only in melee...

 

[Braxton2011]

How many cakes would Peach have to make to satisfy Bowser's hunger?

 

[B!squick]

The real question is whether he would accept a cake that isn't of the carrot variety.

 

[Dre89]

How many cakes would Peach have to make to satisfy Bowser's hunger?

Just a couple of big ones, as evidenced in Bowser's Inside Story.

 

[Dre89]

Does Bowser's fair have a sourspot?

Because a couple of time I'd drop off a platform and fair, and they'd stay right infront of me. So now drop off fair-jab-grab-ground-jab-sideb is my signature combo.

 

[Flayl]

FAir can string into stuff at low %s, I usually FAir and then FTilt and miss out on a lot of dash grab oportunities.

And yes it has a sourspot which is like inside Bowser. You can check out Toomai's thread for that kind of info.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=305686

 

[NickRiddle]

So, question... from a situation...
You double-jump, make people think you're going to uair, them, and you Bowser Bomb their air-dodge instead.
Thoughts?

 

[Cassius.]

That actually sounds really legit..and if you miss, they probably can't do anything substantial to you depending on the character.

That'd be absurd in Bowser dittos if you miss though, although I'm imagining that it's next to impossible

 

[Dre89]

I can't see the grab release chart or the excel file anymore. Not sure if that's my laptop playing up or the chart not working anymore.

I've been trying to master the sh fair out of Pika's air release, but I can get anywhere near him unless I dash first, even then I still miss. Am I supposed to dash first? I really feel like there's something I'm missing here.

I've always had trouble understanding how grab release follow ups work. Do you guys commit to a GR or AR follow up before they release, or do you react to their release and follow up accordingly?

 

[Flayl]

So, question... from a situation...
You double-jump, make people think you're going to uair, them, and you Bowser Bomb their air-dodge instead.
Thoughts?

I used Bait airdodge -> BAir. That Bowser bomb sounds tricky, but if they're falling straight down it can work I guess? I need to see it.

Dre.: The server has been going down a lot. Once I can afford a better one I'll swap.

Of course you're supposed to dash first against Pikachu...

And it really depends on your reaction times (and coordination I suppose). Against people that have abusable guaranteed air releases (because they're short and their feet dangle in the air) pummel a few times and wait for them to release by air.

Against people you can standing chaingrab mash grab.

Everybody else I usually commit to the ground release by pummeling as often as I can and inputting the release option as soon as I see them break off.

 

[Dre89]

Ok thanks for the info.

As for bombing airdodges, if he meant aerial bombing, the advantage over bair is that it wouldn't be punishable, depending on the char.

Although I did land a grounded bomb on someone who airdodged on reaction to my short hop in fear of the uair.

 

[Zigsta]

Bowser Bombing an airdodge baited via upair CAN work, but nair/fair/bair is guaranteed depending on which way the opponent dodges. It's a legit frametrap.

 

[Dre89]

Bombing is stronger though. Of all those options it's the only vertical KOer, and would KO at pretty good percents considering they'd already be in the air when you bomb them.

To me it makes more sense to save the mix up for a bomb KO so it doesn't get read, as opposed to frame trapping with aerials. Bowser can just punish their landings anyway.

 

[Zigsta]

Again, it can work. I'll take guaranteed stuff any day.

 

[Z'zgashi]

As Bowser, imo you should take anything thats guaranteed, you need that damage,

 

[Dre89]

So then do you guys always jab out of grab releases?

And aerials aren't that much more guaranteed than bombing. The airdodge isn't guaranteed, but if they do dodge the bomb has a pretty good chance to land, and I think the reward outweighs the risk, seeing as it's probably safe against a lot of chars.

And I disagree with the 'he needs guaranteed damage' philosophy, unless you're versing another low tier. Against HTs, you can't just play safe and expect your options to beat their's out without taking risks if they play the same way, otherwise Bowser would be HT.

He has to take risks, and this is a good one because he has the advantage, gets a huge reward and it is largely safe for the most part (I think).

Ganons think the same thing, that they can't afford to just do chip damage. To me this mix up is just like going for an fsmash read out of sideb instead of a guaranteed follow up like dtilt.

 

[Zigsta]

The followup aerials are 100% guaranteed. They airdodge, and you will ALWAYS get the free followup. I don't see the logic in going against something that's always going to work and is easy to put in practice.

I jab out of GRs in friendlies mostly because I'm trolling. I haven't been able to practice much in a while, so my ftilt buffering is off. However, I always jab Olimar, Ivysaur, Sheik, and to a lesser degree ZSS because I want them out of my face and, in the case of the first two, I want them near the ledge.

I jab Marths to see how up B happy they are. If they up B after jab 1, I know I can shield after the next jab 1 and upair their lag after the baited up B. I can also fair it for damage.

As for the risk bit, the difference between Bowser and Ganon here is Bowser has a massive blindspot below him. I'm all for taking risks, depending on the MU, but I'm not a fan of doing something that may end up getting me juggled to infinity and beyond.

 

[Dre89]

Yeah but bomb KOs early, probably earlier than anything else he's got that's viable. That's the only reason why I advocate it. It's not like I'm saying to use dair or something else which has no advantage over guaranteed aerials.

I don't see how you would get juggled if you bomb to the ground. I don't see how there's much risk involved. I must be missing something.

 

[Zigsta]

You mispredict/time it, and you get your landing lag punished.

 

[Dre89]

Hmmm you could be right.

The way I pictured it in my head was that you're only going to miss it if they airdodge sideways, but in that case they probably won't be able to to punish the landing.

Doesn't really matter anyway.

 

[Dre89]

Sorry needed to double post because the last post was two months ago.

I was fooling around on the ledge doing ledgedrop-jump-dair. I'd either SD or just land on the stage. I was wondering if it was possible to regrab the ledge instead.

Thanks in advance.

 

[NickRiddle]

Sorry needed to double post because the last post was two months ago.

I was fooling around on the ledge doing ledgedrop-jump-dair. I'd either SD or just land on the stage. I was wondering if it was possible to regrab the ledge instead.

Thanks in advance.

Dair lasts too long.

 

[Uncle]

Indeed, it lasts too long to work like that, and you'll just end up landing on the stage or SDing, like you said.

It's also just a bad move in general, outside of the rare mixup. It's such a shame, because a reliable Dair would have helped out Bowser a lot.

 

[Unsound_Shinobi]

In all fairness, the dair works as a great shield poke against DK's that like to stand in shield expecting a dash attack, but I think that might be considered one of the rare mixups. All I know is I hop up into a dair right on top of him at high percents and he flights away with the last hit. Well, kinda flies.

 

[Dre89]

Dash attack is one of Bowser's worst moves so no one will expect that. Although I do think a perfectly spaced dash attack is a decent rare mix up itself, because it has good range and sends them upward.

The landing hitbox on dair is really its only redeeming quality. It seems like it could have some potential as a shield poke or to hit someone hanging from the ledge but I'm not sure what its exact properties in those situations are.

Also I'd like to know how people cope with Peach's dair pressure. A peach was pressuring my shield diagonally above me, so upb was to low to get hit and would just get punished. The only thing I could think of was rolling away, because everything else wouldn't hit or was too slow frame wise.

 

[NickRiddle]

Do not shield a lot vs. Peach.

 

[Flayl]

I wouldn't call Bowser's dash attack one of his worst moves, at least not bottom 5. You need to use it rarely and not rely on it for it to work though

 

[Dre89]

I actually like dash attack, but apart from his throws it's probably his most situational move apart from dair.

I can't think of any worse moves. Bowser doesn't really have any bad moves like Mario's dtilt or Ivy's dsmash, he just doesn't have anything amazing except for maybe klaw.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I used to use Bowser's dash attack for approaching.