Koopa Questions: a Bowser Q&A Thread

[Cassius.]

If you're not in the lead, that **** won't work.

The dynamics of Klaw aren't that simple.

 

[Trouble King]

If you're not in the lead, that **** won't work.

The dynamics of Klaw aren't that simple.

My apologies. I screwed up.

Get stock lead->Grab-release->Bowsercide.

Ok, ok, but in all seriousness. Cuz I would rage if someone told me "Don't step on banana".

First thing I do is to gauge how good this MK actually is, if I've never faced them before.

MK's got the same problem that we do. No projectiles. It's just that he has a million different pros that make up for it and just as many ways to approach anyway.

We can ride out nado spam if we keep our shield up. It's at this point that you can find out if this guy is going to be a challenge or not. If he finishes nado near you, chances are he screwed up, or he isn't all that great of a player. You can punish him from here.

If he attacks with nado and retreats before he finishes, get ready for a long ride and expect nado spam and be patient about it. It helps to know how long nado lasts depending on how fast he mashes B. Nado's priority also increases when B is mashed, or when it's in the air. If he nado's on the ground and doesn't mash B, you can break it.
Judge your distance each time and try to force him to land near you.

Look out for his shuttle loop(SL) and glide attack (GA). They both come out quick. He of course, doesn't need SL to use GA, so if he glides to recover, watch out, because he can do pretty much anything right out of a GA. Again, our shield comes in to play in order to block/punish. If you shield his SL, get ready to shield again if he dips down for a GA, if he does, shield it and punish with a grab/up-b, whichever you prefer/think will benefit you in that situation.

Sit there and lol at his Dair camping, but don't let him sneak up on you with it or gimp you with it. If you get Dair'd over the edge, you might as well Down-B.

Fair and Bair can be Short-hop(SH)'d close to the ground, and he'll use those to set you up by using the first hit of each. So beware of it. You shouldn't be that close to him anyway, if you can help it.

Your main advantage is your huge range, so never stay in one spot. If he tries a mad dash, do a retreating pivot-grab. Stay one scaly arm's reach away from him, spacing your f-tilts appropriately. If you're feeling ballsy lucky you could try a stutter-step f-smash, etc.

Don't forget your aerial klaws. That and your grabs are usually the best moves Bowser can make for most matchups.

And just when he thinks he may have a chance to come back:

Finish him off with a Grab-release->Bowsercide to really show him who's boss.

 

[Dumbfire]

You can't shieldgrab Glide attack if its spaced well.
Better thing to do is to keep holding shield and reacting to what he does. Mostly a quickly mashed downsmash or something. Ofcourse when he's starting to grab you after it you mix up but w/e thats logical.
I used to try and shieldgrab glide attack, but luckily Flayl helped me out of this habit. I always got hit by a Jab or something similiar after it.

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

Does Reverse uptilt OoS counter GA?

 

[Hobobloke]

Doubt it, takes too long to get the behind hitbox out.

 

[Flayl]

If the MK is gliding properly at best it will clank with it. You can always UTilt him if he glide attacks too late, or if he isn't low enough to actually hit Bowser. There's also the reverse that if you don't time the UTilt properly he hits you with the glide attack.

If you predict the MK isn't going to make a bad glide attack, you're better off shielding than doing UTilt.

 

[Trouble King]

You can't shieldgrab Glide attack if its spaced well.
Better thing to do is to keep holding shield and reacting to what he does.

Hm, you are right. But if he's good enough to know the spacing, then it wouldn't be wise to hold down the shield, since he'll grab. Then again, there's Up-B OOS.

 

[Flayl]

That doesn't make sense. Why would you UpB a spaced glide attack?

Spaced means he's going to hit you with the tip of the attack, there's no way Fortress will hit. If he's spacing the glide attack, he'll have to dash if he wants to grab you.

 

[Trouble King]

That doesn't make sense. Why would you UpB a spaced glide attack?

Spaced means he's going to hit you with the tip of the attack, there's no way Fortress will hit. If he's spacing the glide attack, he'll have to dash if he wants to grab you.

Lol. Yes, I meant UpB the spaced glide attack, because obviously, one of Bowser's spikes are going to hyper-extend to touch him.

Actually, I mean Up-B OOS his attempt to grab you. After the glide attack.

 

[Dumbfire]

If he notcies you shielding the after the Glide attack you mix up with things you listed..
But mostly people mash a quick down smash or keep holding A and get a jab.. Or they are smart and retreat. But avoiding it is better then getting hit, after all..

 

[Tenodera]

Hiya Bowser mains! This is as good a place as any for my first post, which can be doubly productive because it has a question as well:
Has anyone else experimented with shorthop-Dair? I've found it to be incredibly risky, but if I land it at a low percent (especially on large characters) I can get decent damage and an Ftilt or Dtilt afterward. Obviously the biggest problem with this is that the punishment for a failed Dair would outclass any pros. It's got surprise factor going for it I suppose.

 

[Zigsta]

It's a decent mixup. I've been using it more lately. That said, I wouldn't use it more than twice a game.

 

[KillerJawz]

You also have to consider just what you can be punished with should your attack be unsuccessful. Has Zig said, it's a nice mixup, but it should be used with extreme caution.

 

[Tenodera]

Got another one: Did Bowser's Bair lose its tiny spike zone from Melee?

 

[Zigsta]

Yep. Bowser's bair can't spike, but his dair has a very, very weak spike.

 

[Judo777]

Can Bowser Fortress Nado OoS? I can see him being able to do it sometimes (depending on MK's hitbox window) but according to ur frame data ur not invincible on the first frame the hitbox is out (unlike marth whos invincible when his first hitbox is out). Wouldn't you trade sometimes is nado hit you on frame 6 after you started up B?

Actually i think i figured it out but please verify. Nado doesn't do enough damage to clank with bowsers up B so the hitbox beats nado if they hit on the same frame. Ending MK's nado?

 

[MrEh]

Can Bowser Fortress Nado OoS?

Yes. Even without the invincibility, the Fortress just wins.

 

[BowLX]

What about Frigate as a cp for Bowser? Sometimes I pick that stage as a cp against characters like ICs, which seemed to work for me...

 

[Flayl]

If you're playing a character's that's bad at edgeguarding you (I'm honestly not sure which, lack of experience), I think it's okay. I have been screwed over by fortress's lag on the temporary side platforms and some wacky stuff with the flip, but those are manageable.

 

[BowLX]

If you're playing a character's that's bad at edgeguarding you (I'm honestly not sure which, lack of experience), I think it's okay. I have been screwed over by fortress's lag on the temporary side platforms and some wacky stuff with the flip, but those are manageable.

Hm, I guess characters like Zamus (don't have better examples either) have problems in that stage. If I manage to send them flying to the direction to the right (where this up/down floating platform is), then they could've problems to recover, due to the missing ledge...

Bem, tenho que experimentar mais xD
Well, I have to experiment more on Frigate.

 

[Flayl]

Hm, I guess characters like Zamus (don't have better examples either) have problems in that stage. If I manage to send them flying to the direction to the right (where this up/down floating platform is), then they could've problems to recover, due to the missing ledge...

That's doubly true for Bowser...

Bem, tenho que experimentar mais xD

Did you take portuguese classes or are you portuguese?

 

[BowLX]

Did you take portuguese classes or are you portuguese?

My parents are portuguese, so I can speak this language. However, since I live in Germany and go to a german school, I'm more experienced with the german language...

Well, back to the topic:

That's not much Bowser related, but I have a bad habit on fitting my playstyle on my opponent... That sounds weird, but it's true. Like if I play someone who spams smashes and shield less, I also shield less and get punished by his smashes, usually resulting in a loss for me...

However, I play more smarter if I play experienced people and the results are different. I had now 2 ladder matches, which I lost cause I always ran into smashes without shielding or dodging them (we are talking about Snakes F-Smash and DK's Smashes + Giant Punch). I don't know why sometimes I play smarter and other times I'm playing too offensive. It could be because of the button delay (if I play Americans, it often happens to me), which changes my playstyle with Bowser. My results are better when fighting europeans or other people who aren't that far away from me, yet they are really experienced in that game.
Hope I'm not sounding like a john, lol.

 

[Cassius.]

Well, to me it just sounds like you don't pay enough attention...lol

you need to hit that level of consistency as a player, and you certainly shouldn't be running/airdodging into random smashes unless they're HARD reads, emphasis on caps.

speaking wifi related, it could also be lag, i don't know. i haven't had that much success using bowser on wifi, but everyone on aib seems to think im that bowser guy or something..

 

[Zigsta]

So I ran into a few cool things with Bowser I haven't seen before--lemme know if you guys have had this happen to you before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIaG6hTxWXE&feature=autofb Around 1:42, I begin the animation for dair very very low to the ground, and it almost immediately cancels into a reverse ftilt. No idea how this happened, but I dig it.

I unfortunately couldn't get a replay of this next example, but I was playing on Lylat. I was on the leftmost ledge. As the stage tilted to the left side, I Bower Bombed the leftmost side of the leftmost platform, and Bowser Bomb was COMPLETELY lagless, allowing me to instantly go to a dropdown fair, but to my opponent's surprise. I haven't seen this before, but I figure it has something to go with Lylat's tilting. I'd test it if I could, but I don't have a Wii at the moment--can anyone confirm this?

 

[Cassius.]

it's because when you daired you were starting the animation. it happens with a lot of aerials; bowser's dair just has this long and stupid windup. lol

 

[_Rated D.R.K_]

On wifi man, I just do stuff with Bowser lol. Bowser on wifi just makes me sad anyway. Wifi however can make amazing things happen like hitting 3 forward smashes in a row.

 

[Akumin Beast]

Psychological Outlook for Bowser

Greetings everyone.

In words of DBZ, ''Whats the point of strength if you can't hit me?'' In the words of me. ''Whats the point of speed if you can't kill me.'' Speed and strength have their own governing flaws and strengths. It's not about their mechanics that allows humans to use them against the counter operation. It's about knowing your opponent, and what these mechanics can perform that is key. ''Knowledge is golden, silence is key.'' Even the balance between speed and strength, has it's flaws aswell. There is no perfect build, there is only advantages..Takes alot of knowledge and time ; devotion to overcome greater options that weigh against you. In the end, any side of the coin can face up even if one side has more weight to it.

Bowser is not offence. He is defense. His attacks are to pressure opponents drastically. Opponents know that your attacks hurt, so they will dodge alot, and try to keep the game in their favor by speed, in which is the worst mistake one should make. Every human has a pattern, and when it comes to a battle between two human minds, psychology plays a dominant role. Even though they are fast, they have to confront you in some way or another, right? It doesn't help even a bit that you can powershield and grab them whilst in shield, making it very hard to approach Bowser. When I brawl online, I have played 1v3 in FFA against some decent players with characters who can spam. (They got mad because I intruded their taunt party) I have fought battles like, 1 .ZZS 2. Toon Link 3. Lucas (I didn't win though, it's the fact I can hold them back with a *low tier* character. I got sudden death and thats what matters. It's 1v3 after all. Against an alleged worst character in the game) I have also handled a decent G&W player, a pikachu spammer, and ROB. (How is that possible that I was able to defend against ROB and his lazuhs? I would mix between edge guarding, and mindgaming opponents into attacking each other, aswell as catching them completely off guard because when you look at bowser he may look slow, but when I play him, I make him look like a ninja. It's obvious that pikachu's lightning bolt has alot of AoE so it hits his teamates and it gives me alot of room to come in with some 18+% attacks. I also could always Side B back to the middle of the stage and go **** on the opposite edge. I simply powershielded ROB's lazers, avoided pik's thunderbolts, and G&W may have awkward hit boxes, it doesn't scare me the least bit. I just wait til I know he is vulnerable then go in for the attack, he is light character. 100% + Up Tilt, game over my 2D friend.)

I actually am glad how underestimated Bowser is, because these people who are simple minded by basic physics and not seeing the internal factors, aswell as the inside view of how defense and offence both can destroy each other because just like humans and views, we all have our roles, right? There is no disadvantage where it's impossible, there can only be nearly impossible. If you learn how to deal with this near impossible, you can turn it into a possible. Everyday we find that characters can do things that we never thought they could. What makes you think that today we have discovered everything?

I have won a battle with +4 against a really good MK, a decent MK, and an AFK Zelda. On the Animal Crossing level. All because Mach tornado isn't broken, our human minds are broken. We complain way too much and don't even think to see the weaknesses behind things. We just jump to ''cheap'' and ''bull****'' when really mach tornado can be quite the risky move to use. MK has short attacks, and you can shield grab them easily. Whatever you do, don't get Up B'd by the edge. I only have this happen to me if I was previously lauched by an attack and my only means of recovery is Up B, but many times I survive because I either fast fall a bit, or air dodge + Up B onto the ledge, then jump off the edge hitting MK with Back A getting more % on him and if he DI's that puts him into a situation where even the S tier has little options. He is a LIGHT character. Learn to dodge, learn to not get mindgamed. He is not S tier like everyone says he is. He has flaws, and I haven't found any MK who has given me trouble yet, let alone in a team against me. Every character has their own style of play and mindgames. Stop complaining about ''best'' characters, because all you are doing is making yourself look like fools when you get killed by your *low tier* and we feel extremely rewarded, in the end. When really. It was all just knowing how to use a true mind in a battle. Stop underestimating characters, one day more and more people who think like me will start making Yoshi look like a beast, or turn Ganondorf into a thunderstorm of doom. It's called stop being aggressive, stay unpredictable. Any opponent who fights by strength and ''best'' already loses in the end. The only thing that can set you and that opponent apart is the knowledge they have of the game known as priority.

This is why ''skill'' doesn't exist. It's knowledge guys. It's all psychology and maneuver, to see who can make the other make the most mistakes. I have become friends with a ''pro'' Falco online because we fought about 10 battles while the other players watched us duel it out. We both had our fair share of wins. This is a low tier against a high tier. So it was nice to see Falco become my friend :D. How did I kill Falco? Easy. Falco has things I am very aware of to watch out for + his mindgames. Watch out for his lazuh pressure, his Down B, shorthopping with Down A, chain grabbing, which he couldn't get on me that many times, because I always had him in the air, and mindgaming his Falco's moveset. Dash attack is your FRIEND. Don't use it as an attack. It lifts people off the ground, and it definately catches them off guard if you charge at them, shield then dash attack. It's a defensive mechanism. Bowser is all about getting your opponent in the air for DI mindgames.

- Also, I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but Bowser has a really great crouch game. I have yet to dwell into it's mechanics but I believe he has a whole new style of gameplay. His crouch attack kills people at 120% O . O. It has a relatively fast attack, and great range. Then their is fortress, Up Smash, and a few other moves you can use out of crouch. Bowser players should look into this instead of just claw hopping and mindgaming your opponent into their doom. It could improve his metagame. When you crouch, the knockback is relatively decreased. I have survived up to 250% against Toon Link. (Poor guy couldn't get his Up A on me > So Bowser is exactly what he is. A turtle. -

For the MK's out there, I haven't only been being an *** to your character. In fact, one night online, a really good MK was teaming up with me (Bowser) against G&W and Snake in FFA. That Snake and G&W were not your average players either. Yes.. I have also teamed up with a decent Snake against a really good Peach and Zelda. (This all has happened in 6 days XD)

Well, I guess that is all of I wish to say. I am sure that the guides already explain the physics, and the outer mechanics. I explained the psychological, and the inside view of Bowser. Hope this helps everyone. If you have any opinions, don't be an ***. Be formal about it, because it will only make you seem offended and defensive, let alone arrogant as if you think you are always right. I am only stating all this in what I see. I don't state any of this as FACT.

''Knowledge is like a flower. It will always have a general same response to an already answered question (The stem), but in the end it will grow into new knowledge.'' (The beautiful colours that fold into life from the mundane stem)

Good day everyone! Happy to be a new Bowser main-ish. I don't know.. Can you main Bowser in 6 days? I have accomplished alot. I still have alot to know about prioritizing my opponents attacks. Can't tell how many times I let Peach use her floaty Down A attacks on me. XD
(I'm new if you can't tell >

Akumin Beast (My name fits Bowser oddly well. Whats worst than a beast? A beast with knowledge) - Akumin derives from the word acumen. I will be honest. I changed it because it had ''***'' in it. XD

 

[Zigsta]

Welcome to the boards, Akumin!

I agree with you that Bowser's a much more defensive than offensive character--it's one of the many reasons I main him over other characters.

That said, it's probably not the best idea to use 3v1ing over Wi-Fi as a means to support an argument around here. Some people don't hold Wi-Fi in the highest regard, to say the least.

MK is definitely S-tier. If you haven't realized this yet, then you haven't played one of the top MKs yet. Is it winnable for Bowser? Absolutely. We have harder MUs than Meta Knight. But he's clearly S-tier.

While Bowser's crouch game definitely isn't explored much, there's also a reason behind it: The big guy is just that. BIG. All other crouching characters, save for Ivysaur in many situations due to his bulb, duck low enough to the ground to avoid attacks that would otherwise hit them standing up. While it's true that there are some attacks Bowser can avoid while crouching, particularly if the attack is coming from a platform slightly above Bowser's level, he's still so large crouching that the attacks he misses are few and far between. There is also no Crouch Canceling in Brawl--crouching doesn't affect living to high percents. Only DI does.

But as I said earlier: Welcome to the boards, man. It's refreshing to see someone passionate enough about Bowser to see such a long and length post. As a character who doesn't have much rep, we could use every person we get! Hope you stick around.

 

[Hobobloke]

Zig pretty much said it all, welcome to the boards man. My advice is stop playing wifi and go find your local brawl scene in regional zones, from there you should attend some fests/tournaments, I think it'll really open your eyes to a new level of play.

 

[Cassius.]

Zigsta and Hob pretty much said everything I could possibly say.

I will disagree and say wifi is fine from time to time, but when you to go lose your tournament virginity, it reeeeeeeeeeeaaally opens your eyes to this game, trust me.

you need to lose it.

 

[Akumin Beast]

Rawr!

Thankyou Zig ; Hobo ; Limit, glad to be welcomed so formally.

I really cannot say much about crouching but I definately wasn't talking about dodging projectiles. Thats stupidity. I am only saying that there could possibly be a whole new different strategy to Bowser than just claw hopping. He has all the moves for his crouch for it to be viable to my knowledge of it so far. His crouch attack has good range and can knock your opponent back quite well. Their is also Up Smash, Fortress, and if the person gets by you and spot dodges that gives you the opportunity to use Down B right next to them which around 80-100% it's deadly.

Reason why people die alot with Bowser is because they are way too damn aggressive. Bowser can get ***** if people spot dodge ; powershield ; dodge ; shield accordingly. Bowser's role is to banish their defense maneuvers and turn it into their worst nightmare. Which takes alot of work to learn. When to use what move at what time.

I have fought some incredibly good players on WiFi, and Team Battle before. I can promise you these guys would've made it somewhere on top in tournies the way they played Peach and G&W O.O

Are you saying that WiFi isn't comparable to Tournies because I am Bowser, and I am allegedly supposed to die at tournies, but on WiFi I am getting ''lucky''? Or.. That pro players don't ever go on WiFi?

IIRC somebody has said that alot of really good players fight in team battle, and I have a pretty nice replay of me handling a relatively professional Peach, and a Lucas that should not be approached wrongly. D: He gets so lucky with his Up A's. Lol.

Anyways, I am in financial hell, and I could never enter a tourny. Sorry :/ I am just here to support those who do play Bowser, to help as much as I can to turn him into a beast like he deserves to be.

Also, I play Brawl because I am a music composer. Weird huh? If you know Newgrounds, should look me up one day. Go to the audio portal scroll to the top right bottom of the page to the search engine. Type in ''Insanctuary'' as author. I got #1 on that site 3x in a row. Somehow.. I compose ambient music. So if you don't like it, don't worry about it :D

Ask me any questions about what I would do in what situation with Bowser. We may learn something by doing this.

By the way.. I watched alot of tournies, especially Antler's sexy Pikachu, and Ally's sexy Snake. I am aware of the high level of game play..

 

[bigman40]

You must not be originally from America (just assuming from the way you type). There are some top players who do play Wifi, but the majority of them play offline only. Even if you can't enter tournaments, you can play friendly matches with people there. You wouldn't be losing money (other than gas).

Also, his name is Anther, not Antler. XD

Either ways, welcome.

 

[Akumin Beast]

Mhmm.. But regions does not make the person. I do live in America(Sadly). England isn't the only place where people type like me. (I'm assuming you were refering to that region) I know a few people from the U.S who types close to the way I do. Also..



LOLBBQROTFFLMFAO Did I say Antler? LOL That was the highlight of my day. LOLLOL. I must've said that because somebody in the comments called him Antler. I guess I was thinking about it while thinking of the video I saw. XDDD

Thanks. I'm honored to be here :D. Bowser deserves to be seen as a beast, not a underated turtle. Also, it'd be nice to talk to some other Bowser players, even if they aren't I enjoy talking to people. :D

@Zig, the reason why I declared MK for not being S tier, or any tier for that matter is because the way I see everything. EVERYTHING has a weakness. EVERYTHING has a strength. It's the person behind said attributes that determines the true weight of oppositions in the end. MK is light weight after all.. >>

 

[B!squick]

Just curious, but where's the questions in these text walls? :S

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

Akumin Beast is Insanctuary?! I love your music

 

[Dumbfire]

I think he's already done with coming here, he stopped posting.

 

[Eternal Vires]

Be-Lated Rawr

I think he's already done with coming here, he stopped posting.

Actually, I kind of forgot my password, and just made another account today. Sorry about that. Besides, it's about time I go by a new title. (I like it alot)

Now why I was gone? First, AT&T threaten to cut off our internet because my dad wouldn't pay something that he didn't authorize in the first place, thus making them dirty pigs that need to get the **** off the face of this Earth for abusing their power.

Secondly, I have been going under alot of psychological problems, and I have about 90-95% of symptoms of all types of anxiety. I also experience schizophrenia symptoms. To top it all off, a few mornings ago I experienced the most unbearable pain I have ever felt in my life, that are symptoms of a brain tumor.. (I was in a fetal position for 5 minutes and I am a very tough trooper. I have handled things my dad couldn't even handle and he fought at the gulf of war ) I had a head injury when I was 15, and that doesn't help my case any less. So lets hope it's not a brain tumor. Regardless I have all the symptoms except seizures. One major symptom t hat scares me though is the day after my head injury, my personality changed significantly. *Ultimate Sad Face*

Again, sorry about that. I am still here.

Possibly Irrelevant News: I main Ganondorf now with Bowser. Perfect couple, eh?

Also, Calibur, I am glad you like my music. I haven't been in the mood to make anymore for now :/. Everyday I feel like I am finally reaching the surface but I just find myself deeper in this damned psychological circle. It's absolutely terrible. I even have a very positive outlook on life, I cannot say where I would be if I was sulking right now with ALL this burden. Not even Bowser could hold this burden. Also, no. I do not want to talk about it, and I have a feeling somebody is going to go typical on this specific paragraph. SOMEBODY usually does. Trolling on personal life >>

Anyways, forgive me Volcan? <3 (You can ask my MSN friends XD. I haven't been on the computer for awhile.)

Also JayDeath, my text walls create questions, even if they aren't questions. There is more than just a ?. There is the notion of composing one out of information. That is what I call a true question :D

and.. here is the question of the day. HOW DA FURKLES DO YOU BREAK SNAKES DAMNED PRIORITY WITH BOWSER? D: He has insane priority, and good snakes are NOT easy to keep in the air. Especially if they know the match up.

 

[Zigsta]

What exact move against Snake give you problems?

If ftilt's bugging you, learn to powershield the first hit. It leads to a free grab, essentially.

 

[HotWings]

Hey, im trying to figure out the counterpick for all characters so im going to all the Q&A threads of all the characters and posting this. I would like for you to give me your characters worst MU and worst stage so it saves me a lot of time researching it myself and testing stuff.

I would really appreciate it if you all helped me out.

Hope to get some answers pretty soon.

 

[Zigsta]

Hey, im trying to figure out the counterpick for all characters so im going to all the Q&A threads of all the characters and posting this. I would like for you to give me your characters worst MU and worst stage so it saves me a lot of time researching it myself and testing stuff.

I would really appreciate it if you all helped me out.

Hope to get some answers pretty soon.

Worst MU is ICs, easily. Worst stage is largely MU dependent, but in general I'd say Rainbow Cruise.